Radiant vs Necrotic damage on a Zealot

[Segev]

Are there benefits to necrotic damage that make choosing it over radiant damage for the zealot barbarian subclass feature ever a good idea? Ignoring flavor for a moment, is there any build or play style that would not be better with radiant damage than necrotic on only one hit per turn, where that hit is always single target?

Radiant damage shuts down certain kinds of regeneration and zombie revivification. I think all necrotic does is have things like undead be expressly immune to it. Am I missing a cool way to use necrotic damage that makes it something you'd be doing anything but sacrificing effectiveness for flavor to choose as your zealot damage type?

[JackPhoenix]

Well, if you intend to fight a lot of angels.... otherwise, no.

Also, few undead are outright immune to necrotic, actually... mummies, liches, anything incorporeal, and that's about it it.

[Segev]

Well, if you intend to fight a lot of angels.... otherwise, no.

Also, few undead are outright immune to necrotic, actually... mummies, liches, anything incorporeal, and that's about it it.

Yeah, and on top of that, there are a number of critters that you're more likely to fight - undead in particular include a fair number of these, e.g. zombies - where radiant is actively a better-than-normal damage type, while I can't think of any situations where necrotic is inherently better.

I wonder if the necrotic option should, like toll the dead, use a larger-than-normal damage die. Or should have a rider of some sort, like chill touch.

[Chronos]

I think that the only undead for which radiant is better than generic damage are the zombie (shuts down their come-back-at-1-HP), vampires (shuts down their regeneration), and shadow (ordinary double-damage vulnerability). Though I suppose that it's not all that rare that you're fighting one of those three.

Aren't there some monsters that are vulnerable to necrotic?

[Mastikator]

The undying from Eberron are vulnerable to necrotic. That's it.

Vulnerable to radiant is some undead and aberrations, and the shadow fiend.

Resistant to necrotic is as said many undead, some fiends, some aberrations.

Resistant to radiant is mostly celestials and gem dragons

You choose necrotic if (and only if) you're going to fight the undying court of Aerenal

[LudicSavant]

Are there benefits to necrotic damage that make choosing it over radiant damage for the zealot barbarian subclass feature ever a good idea? Ignoring flavor for a moment, is there any build or play style that would not be better with radiant damage than necrotic on only one hit per turn, where that hit is always single target?

Radiant damage shuts down certain kinds of regeneration and zombie revivification. I think all necrotic does is have things like undead be expressly immune to it. Am I missing a cool way to use necrotic damage that makes it something you'd be doing anything but sacrificing effectiveness for flavor to choose as your zealot damage type?

There is a very short list of monsters that are resistant to Radiant but not Necrotic. They include...
- Couatl, Deva, and Planetar (MM)
- Radiant Idol, Undying Counselor, and Undying Solider (Eberron)
- Crystal Dragons (FTD)
- Battleforce Angel and Firemane Angel (GGR)
- Alseid (MOT)
- Celestial spirits from the Summon Celestial Tasha's spell.

Also, Undying are vulnerable to Necrotic.

Necrotic is a good damage type, but Radiant is probably the second best damage type in the game (after Force).

[Zuras]

I think that the only undead for which radiant is better than generic damage are the zombie (shuts down their come-back-at-1-HP), vampires (shuts down their regeneration), and shadow (ordinary double-damage vulnerability). Though I suppose that it's not all that rare that you're fighting one of those three.

Aren't there some monsters that are vulnerable to necrotic?

There are a bunch of variant and upscaled versions of all three monster types (greater zombies, vampires of various flavors, shadow assassins) so saying it’s just three is selling it a bit short.

[Xihirli]

Necrotic is a good damage type, but Radiant is probably the second best damage type in the game (after Force).

I think Radiant is just a smidge better.

Magical b/p/s
Radiant
Force
Thunder
Necrotic
Acid
Normal b/p/s
Cold
Fire
Poison

[Hal]

You choose necrotic if (and only if) you're going to fight the undying court of Aerenal

As a GM, if I had a player who wanted to play a necrotic zealot, I'd find ways to make it work. Perhaps a magic item or quest reward that let the PC ignore necrotic resistance, and treat immunity like resistance.

[LudicSavant]

I think Radiant is just a smidge better.

Magical b/p/s
Radiant
Force
Thunder
Necrotic
Acid
Normal b/p/s
Cold
Fire
Poison

Both normal and magical BPS are resisted considerably more often than things you rated below them.

Force has the fewest monsters that resist it in all of the game's sourcebooks. Amethyst Dragons, Draconic Spirit, Helmed Horrors, and Star Spawn Emissary are pretty much it.

[Segev]

Both normal and magical BPS are resisted considerably more often than things you rated below them.

Force has the fewest monsters that resist it in all of the game's sourcebooks. Amethyst Dragons, Draconic Spirit, Helmed Horrors, and Star Spawn Emissary are pretty much it.

I suspect he's rating radiant higher than force due to the number of things that radiant has a special advantage against (even if it's just shutting down regen), while (unlike fire) radiant has almost as few things that resist it as force.

All of which is getting subjective on what qualities make them superior to the others.

It is kind-of irksome that PC sources of B/P/S resistance all fail against magical B/P/S, considering how expensive the game seems to think they should be (other than barbarian rage). Stoneskin is particularly overpriced.


But yeah, necrotic is not a valid mechanical "mirror" to radiant on its own; it really needs a rider to "catch up" to radiant's functionality if it's going to be a choice of one or the other. Especially a permanent choice made when you get the feature that grants it.

[LudicSavant]

It is kind-of irksome that PC sources of B/P/S resistance all fail against magical B/P/S There are actually a number of ways to get magical BPS resistance as a PC.

[Leon]

As a GM, if I had a player who wanted to play a necrotic zealot, I'd find ways to make it work. Perhaps a magic item or quest reward that let the PC ignore necrotic resistance, and treat immunity like resistance.

It works out of the box, as a DM you may just have to consider how many of the things that are immune to it you may or may not be using in a normal set of events. Compared to the things that resist fire the number that do Necrotic are laughably low.

[Eldariel]

I think Radiant is just a smidge better.

Magical b/p/s
Radiant
Force
Thunder
Necrotic
Acid
Normal b/p/s
Cold
Fire
Poison

This seems to be missing Psychic too?

[Xihirli]

Oh right.

Radiant
Force
Psychic
Thunder
Magical b/p/s
Necrotic
Acid
Normal b/p/s
Cold
Fire




Poison

So yes, more things are resistant to radiant than force.
But I don't expect you to ever fight any of them in a typical campaign. Whereas I think you have a decent chance of running into creatures that have a weakness to radiant (be it vulnerability, regen prevention, or keeping zombies from rolling those saves) in any campaign.
If you put every 5e campaign ever in a jar and draw one at random, I think you're going to draw one where radiant gives you an additional benefit somewhere along the line 6/10 times, and one where you actually fight something resistant to radiant like... 2/10 times.

I'm not saying there aren't campaigns where you'll fight angels and/or Zariel (who is resistant but also has her regen shut down by radiant). But... I mean I haven't. I've been playing in several campaigns for years and I think the only enemy I've ever fought resistant to radiant was in a vampire-hunting campaign where the DM made a Bear Totem Barbarian who was resistant to everything as one of the vampire's lackeys.