Staff of the Adder questions

[Gungor]

So I am DMing a game where I rolled this for random treasure for the party. There is a druid in the party who will probably make use of it. There are two aspects of the staff that I'm not 100% sure about and I'd love to hear how others in the Playground interpret the wording.

First, the DMG states that when you animate the head it remains animated for one minute or until the user speaks the command word to return it to normal. There is nothing in the text that places any limit on the frequency with which the staff can be used. Do you interpret that the staff can be used as many times as the user likes (and is willing to risk it being attacked and destroyed)? Or would you limit the usage somehow, such as no more than 1 minute (10 rounds) per day?

Second, the DMG states that you can add your proficiency bonus to the attack the snake head makes when animated but doesn't say anything about an ability modifier. I think that the two most likely interpretations are

1. A staff is a STR-based weapon so you would add your strength bonus to the attack. There is, explicitly, no bonus to the damage which is 1d6 piercing and a potential for another 3d6 poison.
2. The flavor text says that the snake head is making a bite attack, so no ability modifier applies. The attack roll is just 1d20+prof and the damage is 1d6 piercing plus (maybe) 3d6 poison.

I'm leaning towards 2 since that is consistent with the flavor text. Of course since the weapon is only wielded by a caster there is also the option of having it work like a melee spell attack...

How would you run it at your table? Thanks in advance!

[J-H]

I'd let it be used all day, and I would let it be a proficient melee attack with the appropriate stat (str or dex, if Qstaffs are finesse?) or a melee spell attack, whichever is better.

It's 4d6 damage (average 14) with no +damage from stat. A druid's Primal Savagery cantrip deals 2d10 damage (average 11) at level 5 all day long.. and Primal Savagery deals acid damage, which is generally superior to piercing + poison.
If you limit uses or don't have +stat to hit, it's obsolete the moment the druid hits 5th level.

[Segev]

1. A staff is a STR-based weapon so you would add your strength bonus to the attack. There is, explicitly, no bonus to the damage which is 1d6 piercing and a potential for another 3d6 poison.
2. The flavor text says that the snake head is making a bite attack, so no ability modifier applies. The attack roll is just 1d20+prof and the damage is 1d6 piercing plus (maybe) 3d6 poison.

The text says, "You can make a melee attack using the snake head, which has a reach of 5 feet. Your proficiency bonus applies to the attack roll. On a hit, the target takes 1d6 piercing damage and must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or take 3d6 poison damage." You make the attack, so you use whatever stat you'd use to attack with a staff (strength, since it's not finesse). This also applies to the piercing damage. Again, you are making the attack. This is a 1d6 piercing weapon that you add your proficiency bonus to hit with even if you wouldn't normally be proficient with it. It is not explicitly listed as a quarterstaff, so whether any rules for quarterstaves apply is up to the DM. But either way, it lacks the Finesse trait, so it's a strength-based weapon. If the DM rules it to be a quarterstaff, it is up to the DM whether the Versatile trait applies to the piercing damage. By the RAW, it may be a unique weapon and not a quarterstaff at all. However, it still is a melee weapon, which means it uses Strength to hit and damage.

Even so, strength-based weapons on a cleric, druid, or warlock are unlikely to be all that great. Maybe a hexblade could get some use out of it with Thirsting Blade for the extra attack. Even if the DM ruled it a quarterstaff and the wielder has PAM, the butt-end attack would be a d4+str damage, and wouldn't get the poison effect. A Hexadin might be the best wielder for this weapon: native Extra Attack and the paladin's buff magics to bolster it.

[Gungor]

The text says, "You can make a melee attack using the snake head, which has a reach of 5 feet. Your proficiency bonus applies to the attack roll. On a hit, the target takes 1d6 piercing damage and must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or take 3d6 poison damage." You make the attack, so you use whatever stat you'd use to attack with a staff (strength, since it's not finesse). This also applies to the piercing damage. Again, you are making the attack. This is a 1d6 piercing weapon that you add your proficiency bonus to hit with even if you wouldn't normally be proficient with it.

<snip>


Yes, this makes sense. I was overthinking things with the snakehead actually biting the target.

Appreciate the input!

[Chronos]

If it counts as a quarterstaff, then a monk could wield it with Dex, and a druid could cast Shillelagh on it to wield it with Wis, and both would increase the size of the damage die.

[Segev]

If it counts as a quarterstaff, then a monk could wield it with Dex, and a druid could cast Shillelagh on it to wield it with Wis, and both would increase the size of the damage die.
Yep, though it's up to the DM whether it does or not. I don't think there's a blanket rule that all magical staves count as quarterstaves, and the item itself doesn't explicitly say it does. It also doesn't say it definitely isn't, hence DM call.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Further questions on these. The text says they have AC 15 and 20 HP and can be attacked while animated. What attacks would harm them? Obviously B/P/M. I'd be inclined to make them immune to poison. But beyond that I'm not sure. I'm inclined to make them take most forms of damage including the most likely way this item will meet it's end, AOE. But, if they get Fireballed, what would be the save, if any? If they get no save, they're definitely going down in a hurry.

[J-H]

I'd still call it a carried magical item, with no separate save needed against Fireball or anything else, unless specifically targeted by somebody trying to kill the snake. Sunder is gone, isn't it?

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I'd still call it a carried magical item, with no separate save needed against Fireball or anything else, unless specifically targeted by somebody trying to kill the snake. Sunder is gone, isn't it?

Yeah, that sounds like RAI as I think about it... and it would keep the thing functioning for a while at least.

[Segev]

In all honesty, the "it can be attacked" thing is definitely a "because legacy" issue. It doesn't make a lot of sense, is strategically foolish, but could have a cool-looking moment in a game, so I suppose that's a reason to keep it.

Killing the snake-head is actually less effective than attacking the holder, unless the holder has literally nothing else he can do with his action but try to attack with the snake-head. I suppose it's a way for the DM to remove the item from the game if he's feeling it overpowered. And despite it being less harmful than killing the PC, the permanent loss of a magic item might be more of a threat to a player than the possibility of going to 0 hp.

Not sure that really is a point in favor of the mechanic, but...well, there you go.

As for RAW handling of it: it has AC and hp, and can be attacked. Anything that uses an attack roll and deals damage will damage it. DM call as to whether it's an object for purposes of various effects and damage types, and whether it's immune to poison or not.

[Chronos]

Ah, I thought that this rule was somewhere! Page 140 of the DMG:

Unless a staff's description says otherwise, a staff can be used as a quarterstaff.