Melee Warlock Build

[Rowanomicon]

I'm trying to create an awesome melee Warlock.

I've been looking at feats like Battle Casting (I think that's what it's called) and other ways to get my armor class as high as possible while keeping Arcane Spell Failure chance non-existent (or incredibly low).

I've looked at some PrCs such as Green Start Adept and SpellSword as well as R(something) Battlemage from a FR book (Unapproachable East).

Anyway I'm looking for opinions and ideas.

[Xeon]

I had a pretty sweet warlock/hexblade. I took the battle caster feat and I think I ended up with Mithral full plate with little to no spell failure chance. also Hideous Blow is a must have.

[kpenguin]

Getting Eldritch Glaive is the recommendation I've heard on melee warlocks.

[Rowanomicon]

I'll look at Hexblade.

Hideous blow is a must have.

I'm trying to get as much Warlocky goodness in there so all the invocations I can get are good (and other class features are also good).

What is Eldritch Glaive?

[kpenguin]

It's a blast shape from CM that allows warlocks to gain iterative melee eldrtich blasts, I think.

[Rowanomicon]

Nice. I'll look into that too.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

While they wouldn't get all the warlocky goodness, I think you might be able to sacrifice some of the special abilities of the warlock to get Eldrich Knight. Take the armored mage feat to use medium armor, one level of fighter...you're invocations will count as 'able to cast 3rd level spells' once they are stong enough I think...once you start gaining levels in the class that add to your caster level, I believe that it includes swapping old abilities and gaining more powerful invocations in addition to extr known ones. That way you would get the fighter progression of to hit with the benefit of all your invocations...not sure if your eldric blast would increase though...not sure if the rules state it is tied to your warlock level or to your caster level. Might house rule it to caster level if it isn't.

[Rowanomicon]

Yeah, I've looked at Eldritch Knight as well and thought about it.

I'm pretty sure Eldritch Blast is tied to Caster Level.

[The_Snark]

Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic) is a must-have, and can replace Hideous Blow. Same level; it basically makes your eldritch glaive into a reach weapon (that can strike adjacent opponents). You don't get to add weapon damage or your Str bonus to the attacks, but it's a melee touch attack, meaning you can add Power Attack for more damage. You can also make AoOs.

Takes a full-round action to use even if you only have the one attack, unfortunately, but you can always use the ranged version as you're closing the distance.

If you can keep your Charisma high, make sure to grab Blinding Blast; a blind enemy isn't going to be retaliating. (At higher levels, replace with Noxious Blast if you like.) Fell Flight combined with Eldritch Glaive can also keep you out of reach. Battle Caster can net you mithril full plate, which is handy given your low HP, but if you don't think you'll be able to get the mithril full plate, don't bother; you're only getting 1 point of AC out of a breastplate.

If you have Magic of Incarnum accessible (and either play as one of the new races in it or multiclass for a level), Incarnum Blast can increase your blast damage and add a daze effect against creatures of opposed alignments.

The hellfire warlock (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=3) can deal very impressive damage when combined with Eldritch Glaive, and being in melee lets you use Hellfire Shield to good effect. Just make sure you have some way to survive the Con damage... Being a Binder (Tome of Magic) or getting a Strongheart Vest (Magic of Incarnum, either take a feat to get it or a level of incarnate) will solve the problem at least partially. If neither is allowed, it's still probably a good choice, since you're not losing a lot; you'll just have to be cautious about using hellfire, and stock up on wands of restoration. (Or have an accomadating party cleric.)

[Duke of URL]

I've looked at some PrCs such as Green Start Adept and SpellSword as well as R(something) Battlemage from a FR book (Unapproachable East).

You can't qualify with just Warlock, see below.


you're invocations will count as 'able to cast 3rd level spells' once they are stong enough

Not without house-ruling it in. Invocations never count as spellcasting, in the sense of "able to cast [Nth level] arcane spells". Invoker level can substitute for caster level in requirements, on the other hand.

I second the Hellfire Warlock suggestion, and also Eldritch Glaive as a Dark invocation as soon as possible.

[Kaelik]

The absolute best melee lock is Warlock/Cleric/Eldritch Disciple/Hellfire Warlock.

Now you are the Cleric that can cast Restoration on yourself.

Plus you can cast Divine Power and many other Cleric buffs, CoDzilla with Warlock invocations.

You can give yourself large size, huge bonuses to Str and full BAB. So now you use Eldritch Glaive to threaten everything within 20ft and you power attack for full on each of your multiple attacks.

[Ditto]

I thought that the spell-level equivalencies were designed specifically for qualifying for prestige classes. I'm trying to think... what other use does it have? I suppose opposed caster level checks...

[kjones]

A player in one of my games is a Gnome Warlock 3 with Weapon Finesse, Hideous Blow, and a Spiked Chain. 10ft reach, 3d6 damage per hit. Pretty good, and you don't have to multiclass (yet).

[Kaelik]

I thought that the spell-level equivalencies were designed specifically for qualifying for prestige classes. I'm trying to think... what other use does it have? I suppose opposed caster level checks...

They exist to determine:

1.) Invocations affected by Globe of Invulnerability
2.) Saving throws

Note that caster level checks are never affected by the spell level.

[Duke of URL]

A player in one of my games is a Gnome Warlock 3 with Weapon Finesse, Hideous Blow, and a Spiked Chain. 10ft reach, 3d6 damage per hit. Pretty good, and you don't have to multiclass (yet).

How? Don't EWP and Weapon Finesse both require BAB +1? There's no way for a pure Warlock to get both feats before level 6...

[Craig1f]

Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic) is a must-have, and can replace Hideous Blow. Same level; it basically makes your eldritch glaive into a reach weapon (that can strike adjacent opponents). You don't get to add weapon damage or your Str bonus to the attacks, but it's a melee touch attack, meaning you can add Power Attack for more damage. You can also make AoOs.

You can not power attack a touch attack, since all you are doing is touching them. Touching them hard is the same as touching them light.

You want hideous blow until you reach level 6, at which point you swap it for eldritch glaive. Hideous blow is better early on because the extra d8 or whatever (I used a spear for the reach) offsets the low damage of the eldritch blast. But by level 6, you're doing multiple attacks a round, and your BaB is too low to hit anything with armor. The glaive is the way to go. Doing full-round touch attacks does a great deal of damage. Pick up a Chausable of Fell Power (extra damage) and you're in real good shape.

Considering creatures rarely have a touch ac above 12, you'll be hitting targets easily, doing 24d6 damage as a level 11 warlock who is hasted. (6d6 + 2d6 for greater chausable of fell power, 3 attacks) plus a few rounds of acid damage from vitriolic blast (2 rds I think).

I also like Eldritch Spear for catching runners and far targets. And you ABSOLUTELY have to get Vitriolic Blast when you hit level 11. Good bye spell resistant enemies.

Battle Caster is also a great idea. I have a level 16 Eldritch Disciple with Mithral Full Plate. AC 29.

If you're going straight Warlock, I'd spend a lot of feats on Extra Invocations.


While they wouldn't get all the warlocky goodness, I think you might be able to sacrifice some of the special abilities of the warlock to get Eldrich Knight. Take the armored mage feat to use medium armor, one level of fighter...you're invocations will count as 'able to cast 3rd level spells' once they are stong enough I think...once you start gaining levels in the class that add to your caster level, I believe that it includes swapping old abilities and gaining more powerful invocations in addition to extr known ones. That way you would get the fighter progression of to hit with the benefit of all your invocations...not sure if your eldric blast would increase though...not sure if the rules state it is tied to your warlock level or to your caster level. Might house rule it to caster level if it isn't.

There is an errata on Complete Arcane somewhere that you should look at. It addresses the issue of Eldritch Blast.

Basically, your eldritch blast is the level of the highest essence applied to it, or it is 1. Complete Arcane says that it is equal to half your warlock level, but this is false according to the errata.

So, a Vitriolic Blast would be a level 6 spell. Spear is 1 or 2. Glaive is 1 or 2. Vitriolic Glaive would be 6. However, Vitriolic Glaive is irrelevant, because it is an instant conjuration, and is not treated as a spell, but as acid, bypassing spell resistance and gloves of invulnerability.

[Idea Man]

You are correct, Duke. However, he didn't specifically say he was proficient in spiked chain. :smallbiggrin:

[Duke of URL]

You want hideous blow until you reach level 6, at which point you swap it for eldritch glaive. Hideous blow is better early on because the extra d8 or whatever (I used a spear for the reach) offsets the low damage of the eldritch blast. But by level 6, you're doing multiple attacks a round, and the glaive is the way to go.

Eldritch Glaive is a lesser invocation? I had thought (not that I have a ready reference) it was a greater invocation... I may just have had a Warlock-gasm. (Of course, there are so many good invocations at that level it's already heard to choose...)

There's little point picking it up before level 8, however, as your BAB won't reach +6 until then.

[Craig1f]

Eldritch Glaive is a lesser invocation? I had thought (not that I have a ready reference) it was a greater invocation... I may just have had a Warlock-gasm. (Of course, there are so many good invocations at that level it's already heard to choose...)

There's little point picking it up before level 8, however, as your BAB won't reach +6 until then.

It is, indeed, a lesser invocation.

You're right, I didn't mean level 6, I meant BaB 6. I get confused because my warlock is actually an eldritch disciple.

You want to swap it out either at level 8, or when you start missing too often. Touch attacks are easy. Beshadowed blast isn't a bad idea either early on. Just use it every time, and take a 5-foot-step after your attack (so they can't predict what square you're in while blind). If you manage to blind them, then their next attack is worthless (if you took a 5-foot-step) or you have total coverage (if you stood still). Later on though, the Fort Save of beshadowed blast is just too low to be worthwhile. Beshadowed blast is also nice, in conjunction with Eldritch Spear, for neutralizing spellcasters for a round at a distance.

[Kurald Galain]

Glaive Whatever the dual-shot eldritch blast feat's name is is lesser. It's not least, though. I.e. 2nd-level invocation. Glaive is least, indeed, but there really isn't any point in taking it earliy :smalltongue:

A good trick for a Melee 'Lock is taking Fell Flight, and the feat Flyby Attack.

[Kaelik]

Okay,

1) Glaive is a least invocation.
2) Taking hideous blow until glaive is not really that smart. you just wasted an invocation after level X. You get few enough as is.
3) I never take extra invoc because there are always better feats needed.
4) Nowhere in the rules does it say you can't power attack with a touch attack. That's just you version of common sense, my version says differently (because cutting someones chest with a lightsaber is bad for them, but cutting them in half by swinging deeper is worse for them.) The rules themselves actually allow you to power attack with the Glaive that you are holding.

[Craig1f]

Okay,
2) Taking hideous blow until glaive is not really that smart. you just wasted an invocation after level X. You get few enough as is.
3) I never take extra invoc because there are always better feats needed.
4) Nowhere in the rules does it say you can't power attack with a touch attack. That's just you version of common sense, my version says differently (because cutting someones chest with a lightsaber is bad for them, but cutting them in half by swinging deeper is worse for them.) The rules themselves actually allow you to power attack with the Glaive that you are holding.

2) You can swap invocations whenever you get new ones. You would swap Hideous Blow for Glaive when the time comes.

Personally, I'd rather sacrifice the extra 1d8 damage from the weapon, in order to bypass armor by doing a touch attack.

4) If you have to swing a light sabre to cut someone in half, then it isn't a touch attack. In reality, you could cut someone in half by flicking your wrist, which means that it's not a power attack.

Suggesting that you can power attack with a touch attack is like suggesting that a taser is more effective if you pull the trigger harder.

[Duke of URL]

Nowhere in the rules does it say you can't power attack with a touch attack

Yes, it does:


You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies.

A touch attack is neither an unarmed strike nor a natural attack within this context.

[The_Snark]

2) Taking hideous blow until glaive is not really that smart. you just wasted an invocation after level X. You get few enough as is.

Whenever you get to a new level of invocations, you can swap out one of your lower-grade invocations for another invocation of the same grade, so they're not wasting anything.

Whether Hideous Blow is better than Eldritch Glaive at low levels is debateable, though. Hideous Blow does more damage, but it's also harder to hit with it, and you have to cast it defensively.

Edit-


A touch attack is neither an unarmed strike nor a natural attack within this context.

Firstly, touch attacks are not classified as light weapons, and secondly, this particular touch attack is described as a glaive. Definitely two-handed, not light.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Right, so if you really, really need a penalty on your attack rolls, Power Attack is the way to go. You are allowed to use it. But nothing good will happen if you do.

[Kurald Galain]

you just wasted an invocation after level X. You get few enough as is.

Oh, and - consider spending most or all of your feats on extra invocations, because indeed you get few enough of those. While other feats may be more powerful at times, extra invocation is definitely the most "warlock-y" feat.

[Duke of URL]

Firstly, touch attacks are not classified as light weapons, and secondly, this particular touch attack is described as a glaive. Definitely two-handed, not light.

What else can you classify a melee touch attack as? It's clearly a finessable light weapon.

The description for Eldritch Glaive clearly says it is a melee touch attack that appears as a glaive -- that does not mean it actually is one.

[Craig1f]

Firstly, touch attacks are not classified as light weapons, and secondly, this particular touch attack is described as a glaive. Definitely two-handed, not light.

It is described as a glaive of light, basically meant to indicate that it is a reach weapon. It has no mass, no substance. There is no realistic way to treat it as if you can power attack.

Power attacking is cocking a weapon back, and putting some momentum into it. It's like suggesting that I could break a lamp by pointing at it with a laser pointer really hard.

[Kaelik]

Or you could recognize that Power Attack is an abstraction of a method of fighting that involves doing more damage at the expense of accuracy. While with the flick of a wrist you can cut someone with a lightsaber, if you barely touch them (IE scrape the point across their chest) it isn't as powerful as if you really swing, though you are more likely to miss, if you do hit you'll hit them with the middle of the blade and actually cut them in half.

Finally, if an Eldritch Glaive is a massless, substanceless thing that does the same damage no matter how/where you touch them, then why is the attack governed by Strength? Why can't it attack adjacent squares?

Because it is an Eldritch Glaive. And as such it actually has mass and substance.

[Kaelik]

Oh, and - consider spending most or all of your feats on extra invocations, because indeed you get few enough of those. While other feats may be more powerful at times, extra invocation is definitely the most "warlock-y" feat.

Being Warlocky is stupid. That class has some of the most limiting and stupid fluff I've ever seen. When I make a character they aren't "Warlocky" (IE Emo hated by everyone bitter loser. See Mordenkain in the PHB PSAs.) I make a real character, and real characters with real methods of dealing with life always present better options for feats.

[Duke of URL]

Finally, if an Eldritch Glaive is a massless, substanceless thing that does the same damage no matter how/where you touch them, then why is the attack governed by Strength?

Why does any melee touch attack depend on STR? Eldritch Glaive does for the same reason. But since it's finessable, there's no reason not to spend a feat (3rd level is a good choice, before you can use Extra Invocation) on Weapon Finesse if you're going this route, and then it's DEX based.

[The_Snark]

It is described as a glaive of light, basically meant to indicate that it is a reach weapon. It has no mass, no substance. There is no realistic way to treat it as if you can power attack.

Power attacking is cocking a weapon back, and putting some momentum into it. It's like suggesting that I could break a lamp by pointing at it with a laser pointer really hard.

Laser pointer is a nonsensical example, since that's more of a ranged weapon. Not a weapon at all, actually.

It's the difference between touching someone with the eldritch glaive and running it straight through their chest.


What else can you classify a melee touch attack as? It's clearly a finessable light weapon.

The description for Eldritch Glaive clearly says it is a melee touch attack that appears as a glaive -- that does not mean it actually is one.


So far as I can tell, touch attacks aren't classified at all, except in Complete Arcane, where it says that you "can treat touch spells as light weapons and use your Dexterity modifier on your touch attack rolls," under Weapon Finesse.

So I suppose you're right in general; that particular example is unclear and doesn't say they're treated as light weapons for Power Attack as well as Weapon Finesse, but they probably would have listed Power Attack as an option there if it could be done.

Eldritch Glaive doesn't really say whether it requires two hands or not (implied by flavor but not mentioned), but you could argue that if it did, it would be eligible for Power Attack.

[Kaelik]

Why does any melee touch attack depend on STR? Eldritch Glaive does for the same reason. But since it's finessable, there's no reason not to spend a feat (3rd level is a good choice, before you can use Extra Invocation) on Weapon Finesse if you're going this route, and then it's DEX based.

Or since with the build I mentioned you can get a +14 bonus to Str you could just leave it as Str and spend that feat on something more useful. Like Power Attack to Power Attack with the Two Handed Weapon that you are holding, and that you are power attacking to drive straight through someones chest instead of barely scraping them. Or maybe Shorten Grip so you can attack adjacent squares.

[Craig1f]

Finally, if an Eldritch Glaive is a massless, substanceless thing that does the same damage no matter how/where you touch them, then why is the attack governed by Strength? Why can't it attack adjacent squares?

Because it simplifies the game mechanic.

Anyway, building power attack into your build seems wasteful anyway. If you can convince your DM to do it, so be it. I'm going to go Power Attack a cup of coffee right now.

[Duke of URL]

you could just leave it as Str and spend that feat on something more useful. Like Power Attack to Power Attack with the Two Handed Weapon that you are holding

That "Two Handed Weapon that you are holding" is a touch spell, not an actual weapon. Ignore the fluff when there's any apparent conflict. The description calls it a melee touch attack, so that's what it is.

Edit: If I cast an illusion on a dagger to make it look like a greatsword, do I get to PA with it?

[The_Snark]

That "Two Handed Weapon that you are holding" is a touch spell, not an actual weapon. Ignore the fluff when there's any apparent conflict. The description calls it a melee touch attack, so that's what it is.

Edit: If I cast an illusion on a dagger to make it look like a greatsword, do I get to PA with it?

No, but if you transform the dagger into a glaive, you do.

Would you say that you could attack with the glaive while carrying a shield?

Also, pumping Dex to take Weapon Finesse is still a bad idea, because if you're wearing armor (especially if you went Battle Caster), you won't be able to get much of a Dexterity bonus to AC.

[Craig1f]

Anyway, I think we're off track.

For a melee warlock build, start with hideous blow if you so choose, or go with Glaive to have a better hit chance. If you start with hideous blow, switch to glaive by level 8, because your BaB doesn't go up fast enough to do you any good.

I like beshadowed blast because it'll take your target out for a round (they can't hit very easily if they're blind)

Get viotriolic blast at level 11.

Combat Casting is a must so you can actually survive combat. You can probably hold off on this until you can afford mithral plate.

If you can convince your DM that a Mithral Buckler does not impose an attack penalty, then I would get one. Even if it does impose a penalty, you're touch-attacking, so no big deal. A Buckler will add a few AC, which you'll need.

Walk Unseen and Fell Flight will be useful for getting yourself out of bad situations, and are pretty generally useful.

Anything else is flavor.

[Duke of URL]

No, but if you transform the dagger into a glaive, you do.

Nothing in the description says that it's actually a glaive, only that it appears as one and has the same reach.


Would you say that you could attack with the glaive while carrying a shield?

Yes. As a melee touch attack, you only need one hand free.


Also, pumping Dex to take Weapon Finesse is still a bad idea, because if you're wearing armor (especially if you went Battle Caster), you won't be able to get much of a Dexterity bonus to AC.

Not a bad idea, just a different one -- in this case, you'd being going the DEX-route with lighter (or no) armor, probably relying more on stealth and invisibility. It also allows you to use your normal blast (especially with Eldritch Spear) with more accuracy as a ranged touch attack -- same attribute dependency.

[kjones]

Duke of URL: You are correct about both those feats normally requiring +1 BAB, but I house-ruled Weapon Finesse to remove that requirement so that Rogues could take it at 1st level. Guess I've been doing that for so long that I forgot about the requirement. Anyways, disregard my previous suggestion for a build.

Especially considering that Eldritch Glaive should fulfill all your 10-ft-reach needs...

[Eldmor]

As for all warlocks, pick up a +1 twilight mithril feycraft breastplate. 0% spell failure and +6 armor with plenty of room to DEX in for 6,700g. Another reason to be nice to the local clique of faeries.

[kpenguin]

Um... wouldn't a warlock ignore spell failure with a mithril breastplate anyway? After all, its light armor.

[Kurald Galain]

Being Warlocky is stupid.

Actually you have a point, although warlocky fluff is surprisingly popular. What I recently found when playing a (highly refluffed) warlock is that the warlocky crunch isn't really all that good. After a lot of finagling with feats and prestige classes, I found that my character would work a lot better as a beguiler...

[Eldmor]

Um... wouldn't a warlock ignore spell failure with a mithril breastplate anyway? After all, its light armor.
Forgot the warlock ignores arcane spell failure from light armor. :smallredface:
I know why I mentioned that now. Eldritch Theurge's arcane casting. Could make some interesting things with imbuing spells into your glaive.

[Tokiko Mima]

The hellfire warlock (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=3) can deal very impressive damage when combined with Eldritch Glaive, and being in melee lets you use Hellfire Shield to good effect. Just make sure you have some way to survive the Con damage... Being a Binder (Tome of Magic) or getting a Strongheart Vest (Magic of Incarnum, either take a feat to get it or a level of incarnate) will solve the problem at least partially. If neither is allowed, it's still probably a good choice, since you're not losing a lot; you'll just have to be cautious about using hellfire, and stock up on wands of restoration. (Or have an accomadating party cleric.)

I highly recommend 2 levels of Incarnate, if possible, for this. Binder can only prevent 1 point of constitution damage per round, and if you need to use Hellfire Shield and Hellfire Blast in the same round you'll be taking Constitution damage. Just plug in a point of essentia to the Vest and you can reduce your ability damage enough to be able to use both abilities in the same round. The second level of Incarnate would also allow you to bind a Crystal Helm to your crown chakra, and add the force descriptor to your melee attacks. This means that incorporeal creatures can't be missed by your Eldritch Glaive, making your damage nearly impossible to negate. :smallcool:

[Beren One-Hand]

For a melee warlock build, start with hideous blow if you so choose, or go with Glaive to have a better hit chance. If you start with hideous blow, switch to glaive by level 8, because your BaB doesn't go up fast enough to do you any good.

I may be missing something since I haven't seen the actual text of Eldritch Glaive, but unless the Glaive gives a bonus to the attack roll they have the same hit % - Weapon damage from Hideous Blow only happens if you've overcome the normal AC, but the Blast damage/effect happens anytime you've beaten the touch AC (even if you didn't roll high enough to deal damage with the weapon.)

[Rowanomicon]

Oh, I am definitely going with Hellfire Warlock.

[The_Snark]

I may be missing something since I haven't seen the actual text of Eldritch Glaive, but unless the Glaive gives a bonus to the attack roll they have the same hit % - Weapon damage from Hideous Blow only happens if you've overcome the normal AC, but the Blast damage/effect happens anytime you've beaten the touch AC (even if you didn't roll high enough to deal damage with the weapon.)

Not so. You're probably thinking of the bit that says the blast goes off even if the weapon doesn't deal damage, but that just means if you do no damage due to damage reduction or some such, the blast still has its effect.

In any case, Hideous Blow would still have the chance of failure from drawing attacks of opportunity.

[loganic]

I agree that that power attacking with a glaive is weird but weapon finesse makes quite a bit of sense. The glaive has no weight, and so makes a perfect candidate for it.

My character is a dex/armor grabbing human.
I haven't seen anyone else mention celestial armor. Light so no arcane failure, 8 max dex, +3 chainmail
Celestial armor, +32 dexterity +bracers of armor 8
by themselves give me 32 AC without everything else I could put on. If your character doesnt have an AC closer to that of a dragon than starting, then you probably shouldn't be melee.
I think a glaivelock has it easy on dmg, with haste and maximize plus vitrolic for bypassing any reductions.

[Necromas]

If you use the binder trick with a hellfire warlock, beware that your DM might not take too kindly to using the ability to heal constitution damage instantly to loophole the fact that hellfire abilities don't work if you are immune to the constitution damage, while still being effectively immune to the constitution damage they cause.

[Tokiko Mima]

Oh wow! Old thread.

By the way, on re-reading this, someone said that Eldritch Glaive is in CM (Complete Mage.) It's not, it's in Dragon Magic. I actually bought CM and looked for it, without success.


If you use the binder trick with a hellfire warlock, beware that your DM might not take too kindly to using the ability to heal constitution damage instantly to loophole the fact that hellfire abilities don't work if you are immune to the constitution damage, while still being effectively immune to the constitution damage they cause.

Well, as I remember, the Binder trick does have one weakness: It only heals a single point of constitution damage a round. If you're going glaive-lock, remember that you'll be full attacking a lot, and using your Hellfire damage and possibly Hellfire shield will drain Constitution much faster than that.

Depending on how long your battles last it might not be an issue, but it's something to consider. Personally, I don't see how the Binder solution is much different than having a warlock use their item creation skills to create a limitless amount of cheap wands of lesser restoration, but to each their own I guess! :smalltongue:

[Thinker]

If you use the binder trick with a hellfire warlock, beware that your DM might not take too kindly to using the ability to heal constitution damage instantly to loophole the fact that hellfire abilities don't work if you are immune to the constitution damage, while still being effectively immune to the constitution damage they cause.

While powerful, I don't think its going to be a big deal. You will have a warlock build that actually does somewhat decent damage in exchange for temporary survivability. This seems like a fair trade to me.

[leperkhaun]

check out wizards character optimization forums.

Search for the glavelock (i think thats whats its called). anyway its a handybook that maximizeds the eldritch glave invocation. Basically gives you a grish build and a couple varients.


I agree that that power attacking with a glaive is weird but weapon finesse makes quite a bit of sense. The glaive has no weight, and so makes a perfect candidate for it.

My character is a dex/armor grabbing human.
I haven't seen anyone else mention celestial armor. Light so no arcane failure, 8 max dex, +3 chainmail
Celestial armor, +32 dexterity +bracers of armor 8
by themselves give me 32 AC without everything else I could put on. If your character doesnt have an AC closer to that of a dragon than starting, then you probably shouldn't be melee.
I think a glaivelock has it easy on dmg, with haste and maximize plus vitrolic for bypassing any reductions.

Hmmm may want to look at your AC, the bracers of armor wont stack with the celestial armor, and the armor has a 15% chance of arcane spell failure.

All Normal non magical armor has Arcane spell failure. Here is a link to the armor list and the ASF for each armor.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm

and http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#celestialArmor for the specifics on the celestial armor.