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Mikeavelli
2007-11-29, 08:15 AM
Suppose a BBEG is in total control of his city.

Total, absolute, can do whatever he wants, and wants to keep it that way. One of his major goals is rooting out and disposing of enemies before they have to potential to overthrow him. We're talking a Gestapo-style department of security, complete with a crack team of high level Diviners, patrols of the city conducted by Greater Prying Eyes, gates that feature inspections of everyone entering or leaving the city, assisted by True Seeing and Zone of truth.

Weapons are prohibited inside the city limits, and unarmed combat ability is part of the openning interview. Persons possessing it, such as monks, are specially registered, watched, and encouraged to keep their visit short. Non-imperial spellcasters are treated similarly.

Known dissidents are scryed upon until they're alone, and "disappear" when a squad of soldiers teleports in, puts a black bag over their head, and teleports out.

What sort of other neat tricks might there be in D&D to keep a city under an Iron thumb?

SmartAlec
2007-11-29, 08:25 AM
Well, there's always show trials, false confessions and occasional public executions to show the populace that no matter how bad they have it, Johnny Dissident is about to have it much worse.

Could also have his low-ranking castle servants afflicted by Dominate Person when they start work, and Sleep when they're off-duty. "I want the mindless obedience of zombies, but... I don't like actual zombies."

Armads
2007-11-29, 08:30 AM
Evil Nation's Psionic Henchmen (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=4680815&postcount=3)

Mr. Friendly
2007-11-29, 08:45 AM
Bards, lots of Bards.

AKA Propaganda ministers. Hold lots of rallies, like 2 or 3 a day. A high level bard can keep a populace suggested into obedience. (Think Orwell's Two-Minutes Hate)

Combine low level bards with teams equipped with needles and drugs, the bards fascinate while the chem teams pump the fascinated crowd full of zombie juice or whatever.

hamlet
2007-11-29, 09:24 AM
Play Midnight campaign setting. It has everything you want.

Keld Denar
2007-11-29, 11:49 AM
Better yet, use religious right-to-rule. Nothing inspires fear and obediance like the fear for your immortal soul. For examples of good-boarding-on-evil, look into the church of Pholtus in Greyhawk canon. These guy put the ouch in inquisition. Humans are forbidden from worshipping any other gods, punishable by forced heavy labor. Other "misguided" races religions are tolerated, but carefully monitored. Heritics are often burned alive, or "purified by fire" as it is known. The definition of heritic, however, is pretty liberal, and can mean whatever the person brandishing it wishes.

Or, for more governmental type control atmosphere, watch the movie Equilibrium. It's 1984 meet Brave New World with a liberal portion of badassery.

Don't forget to take your Prozium II. If they catch you feeling, you will be tried (unfairly) and scheduled for summary combustion (burned alive).

Ganurath
2007-11-29, 11:51 AM
Have it be a Hextorian theocracy. Seriously, you can't go any other way with LE than brainwashing the populace into obediance.

13_CBS
2007-11-29, 12:13 PM
It may be wise to find a way to limit martyrdom and control the flow of souls. For example, a heretic/martyr who dies as one will still find a paradise waiting for him when he dies (assuming that's how cosmology works in your campaign). If one finds a way to force ALL souls of people who die in a certain area (i.e. your kingdom) to go to a specific plane upon death, or at least give the illusion that that is so, then you can gain total control over the population's spiritual lives.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-29, 12:14 PM
The Evangelist prestige class (from complete divine) could be handy - you can change people's alignment and thoughts by preaching that we have always been at war with Eurasia.

Ganurath
2007-11-29, 12:16 PM
It may be wise to find a way to limit martyrdom and control the flow of souls. For example, a heretic/martyr who dies as one will still find a paradise waiting for him when he dies (assuming that's how cosmology works in your campaign). If one finds a way to force ALL souls of people who die in a certain area (i.e. your kingdom) to go to a specific plane upon death, or at least give the illusion that that is so, then you can gain total control over the population's spiritual lives.Having them worship a certain deity ensures they go to that deity's domain after. I believe someone suggested an easy way to make a city structure was to make a deal with a fiend to have him/her make the city and in return the fiend gets the souls of those who die in its area.

MCerberus
2007-11-29, 12:18 PM
A smart BBEG will have a spy (read: loyal henchman disguised) being caught doing something bad like poisoning the water supply or sabotaging the infrastructure. That way until the populace is adjusted to their police state they consider the arrival of martial law a good thing.

Sstoopidtallkid
2007-11-29, 12:28 PM
This spy will be violently executed (read "replaced at the last second by an illusion) in order to prove the seriousness and effectiveness of the new regime. The spy will then be suitably disguised and sent on to the next town.

MCerberus
2007-11-29, 12:32 PM
This spy will be violently executed (read "replaced at the last second by an illusion) in order to prove the seriousness and effectiveness of the new regime. The spy will then be suitably disguised and sent on to the next town.

Well that's for "moderate" evil. If we're talking big bad evil, then the spy will actually be executed leaving one less witness that he wasn't really a spy. If you want to do it for more towns, get more henchmen and tell them that the execution was an illusion and that the previous spy is having drinks in the Doom Fortress (TM) as they speak. Repeat until maximum effect has been reached.

Ganurath
2007-11-29, 12:36 PM
Well that's for "moderate" evil. If we're talking big bad evil, then the spy will actually be executed leaving one less witness that he wasn't really a spy. If you want to do it for more towns, get more henchmen and tell them that the execution was an illusion and that the previous spy is having drinks in the Doom Fortress (TM) as they speak. Repeat until maximum effect has been reached.Who needs fake stories when a Dominate Person / Geas works just as well?

Artanis
2007-11-29, 12:38 PM
Put Permanencied Symbols of Persuasion all over the city. I mean all over. Like as part of the street signs and whatnot.

Voila, you've got an entire city of people who love you on a pretty much constant basis, whether they like you or not. Even if they don't like you when the effect wears off, the next time they see a billboard or official proclamation or government building, they'll love you again.

MCerberus
2007-11-29, 01:00 PM
Who needs fake stories when a Dominate Person / Geas works just as well?

I prefer to keep magic to a minimum for evil plots. If you do have all that magic then it's a trump card for later. Most of the other plans use, nay, rely on magic, so why not mix it up?

Mikeavelli
2007-11-29, 01:01 PM
A smart BBEG will have a spy (read: loyal henchman disguised) being caught doing something bad like poisoning the water supply or sabotaging the infrastructure. That way until the populace is adjusted to their police state they consider the arrival of martial law a good thing.

It gets worse than that I'm afraid. While concocting something similar in an isolated settlement far from the city itself, an event that draws the PC's (along with most of the other prominent adventuring parties in the area) to stop it, followed by a news blackout for the area where no-one is allowed in or out except for prominent adventurers who can prove they won't just make the problem worse...

Cut to three weeks later after the PCs are successful and the problem resolved - similar crises break out everywhere else, with only the powerful armies of the BBEG to come in and save the day.

Naturally, the incompetant lords who allowed all these crises to happen are summarily executed, and new puppet nobles are put in place to expand his influence.

The PC's are subsequently contacted by Le Resistance, which exists despite the police state, and have to figure out how to infiltrate the city, and take this guy down.

BBEG has a Fiendish patron in any event, so letting all the souls who die under his watch go to feed the fiend sounds like a nice twist.

So does the evangelist bards - many of whom might actually believe what they're preaching?!


Put Permanencied Symbols of Persuasion all over the city. I mean all over. Like as part of the street signs and whatnot.

I Like!

*Uses*

Green Bean
2007-11-29, 01:10 PM
1. Use city funds to purchase use-activated item of Programmed Amnesia
2. Visit those in prison on political charges
3. Visit those in prison on regular charges
4. Visit political enemies
5. Visit political friends
6. You know what, just have a nice one-on-one chat with most of the folks in the kingdom
7. ???
8. Profit.

rollfrenzy
2007-11-29, 01:11 PM
Establish your own resistance this way dissidants are drawn to work for you, muddy thier goals feed them false information and get the good guys to eliminate the other good guys. With the added benefit that any new dissidants are drawn to your fake resistance.

Telonius
2007-11-29, 01:13 PM
It depends on the BBEG's motivation. What does he want to achieve? If he's trying to launch his bid for world domination, he's going to act differently than if he just wants to be King of Town, or if he wants to establish Hextor's dominance among the pantheon.

In general though, there are a couple things all evil rulers will have to watch out for. Dissent from within, and threats from without. There are completely mundane ways to achieve this sort of control, though it's never entirely stable.

An easy way to help control the population would be to put a hex on the water supply. Not anything so nasty as a Befoul, but something that would lower Will saves. Maybe some Wis damage poison?

I love the Symbol of Persuasion idea. Illusory Script could be great, too. Fnords abound!

Instant Hero. Use a silenced Summon Monster to attack the town. Go up to it, and thwap it on the nose, dismissing it. Reap the praise.

Ganurath
2007-11-29, 01:22 PM
An easy way to help control the population would be to put a hex on the water supply. Not anything so nasty as a Befoul, but something that would lower Will saves. Maybe some Wis damage poison?Unless stripped toadstool is a liquid, you'll need a homebrew poison for that... in which case targetting the Will save specifically would work better.

Tempest Fennac
2007-11-29, 01:36 PM
One other way to encourage people to accept martial law would be to do something similar to Operation Northwood ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwood ). A good way of doing this would involve a Wizard using Seeming on a gorup of soldiers to make them appear to be a group of sterotypically evil creatures (eg: Gnolls or Orcs), have them kill most of the people in a small village and make sure that at least a couple of people can survive and report the attack. If the dictator wants to expand his kingdom, he could accuse neighbouring lands of helping the creatures who attacked the village(s) before invadin them (this way, people are more likely to cooperate with the war while being more likely to accept harsh laws which would be brought in to supposedly protect them).

Sleet
2007-11-29, 01:44 PM
There's an alternate history in the Dragonlance 3.5 products that examines what might have happened if the Kingpriest had succeeded in casting down the gods and becoming the Godpriest. In this setting (examined in the Legends of the Twins supplement for 3.5) the kingdom of Istar under him was pretty much a police state.

rollfrenzy
2007-11-29, 01:46 PM
Oh and read The Prince by Niccolai Machiavelli It outlines how to take and maintian power.

Attilargh
2007-11-29, 01:51 PM
With a name like "Mikeavelli", I think the OP's familiar with the document in question. :smallwink:

rollfrenzy
2007-11-29, 01:59 PM
With a name like "Mikeavelli", I think the OP's familiar with the document in question. :smallwink:

Oh yeah, I totally noticed that. I was... just... saying for everybody else...

Look over there!!! it's red herring vs dr who thread....

Telonius
2007-11-29, 02:09 PM
http://www.scoobydooweloveyou.com/redherring.jpg

Oh noes! :smallbiggrin:

Mikeavelli
2007-11-29, 02:12 PM
There's an alternate history in the Dragonlance 3.5 products that examines what might have happened if the Kingpriest had succeeded in casting down the gods and becoming the Godpriest. In this setting (examined in the Legends of the Twins supplement for 3.5) the kingdom of Istar under him was pretty much a police state.

Heh, I remember the short story that setting originated in.

Some hapless thieves from the normal Dragonlance setting got sent into the Kingpriest's Dragonlance world when Chaos came out of the greygem. It was all a manipulation of events so the thieves would get spotted by the Kingpriest, and convince him to open up the Greygem, at which point Chaos was released on that world, and he transported the protagonists to yet another one, like some kind of hapless evil magic Sliders.

Before Chaos came out, it was more than just a police state, it was absolute victory for the Kingpriest. He pulled off some Pun-pun scale **** like merging all three moons into one, creating a giant eye in the sky. Simultaniously stripped every wizard in the world of their power, and gave him omniscience. Enslaved most of the gods, reduced Paladine(fizban) to a blind crazy cripple, killed off a few others, etc.

Sleet
2007-11-29, 02:21 PM
Heh, I remember the short story that setting originated in....

That's... wow. That sounds like a mishmash of several different events in the DL storyline.

Mikeavelli
2007-11-29, 02:33 PM
If you're interested, it's in The Dragons of Chaos (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dlnovel/083820000)

Lyinginbedmon
2007-11-29, 02:37 PM
Okay, I had something like this a while ago. The BBEG basically wove a tangled web of events and situations that allowed him to force the existing elected ministers to vote him in as the new Lord (Essentially King, but he thought Lord sounded more poetic) of the otherwise democratic nation.

The first thing he did was unveil a new form of undead to keep the populace safe from invaders and other attackers. These later served as the de facto police force and replaced the traditional Guards. CR 12 a piece.

Next he put one of his minions in control of the local churches and gradually slipped them into a new religion (Zakia, focusing on law and order).

Afterwards he caused a few discrete disasters and illegal events to put fear and worry into the populace and imposed things like curfews and restrictions in the name of keeping them safe. He even had a total ban on the ownership of weapons by private citizens.

His final plan was to demoralise any opposition by engineering his own revolution. Of course, since the PCs got involved, this went disastrously wrong when they stormed his lunch at the old ministorial building, but I've had it planned for some time that he intended to fail the 1st time around. Less said on that the better, but suffice it to say the fake revolution doesn't have to fail.

The result [would have been] a country of people all religiously wooed into thinking him a demigod and so convinced he's doing them good that they'll go along with pretty much whatever he said.

For the most part, think Hitler worming his way into the brainwashed lives of the German peoples. Convert that to a D&D equivalent and it works almost universally. Three things to cover: Religion, Ideology, and Physically. The three ways you need to grab the commonfolk, in the ideal order of doing them (That is, "by force" is the last resort, typically done after you've got everything else because few if any object)

SmartAlec
2007-11-29, 02:47 PM
A slightly off-the-wall idea from a Warhammer 40,000 book - hang really scary bound demons/elementals/something big and nasty from poles on and around your city streets. Set them to materialise if someone starts causing trouble, and set them to attacking anyone and anything that's in the area - dissidents, your own forces, innocent bystanders, buildings, anything. Give them a duration of, oh... five minutes or so. With luck, the people will be so absolutely terrified of them, they'll beg would-be heroes not to make any trouble for the fear that the Big Gobble Monsters will eat someone they love by accident.

Neon Knight
2007-11-29, 04:45 PM
I can't believe no one has mentioned this.

Complicity in the regime.

You don't just frame the guard captain and execute him; you make the second in command behead him personally. You don't just execute deserters and traitors, you make their comrades stone them. If a master mage goes rogue, you make his apprentice burn his face off. If a mayor is found wanting, you force his staff to kill him.

And if they won't comply, their families will suffer. By not only oppressing them, but by also making them part of the regime's system of oppression, you force them to share in the guilt and make your regime stronger. And earn brownie points for sadism.

random11
2007-11-29, 06:39 PM
Suppose a BBEG is in total control of his city.

Weapons are prohibited inside the city limits, and unarmed combat ability is part of the openning interview. Persons possessing it, such as monks, are specially registered, watched, and encouraged to keep their visit short. Non-imperial spellcasters are treated similarly.

Known dissidents are scryed upon until they're alone, and "disappear" when a squad of soldiers teleports in, puts a black bag over their head, and teleports out.

What sort of other neat tricks might there be in D&D to keep a city under an Iron thumb?

- If you ask me, weapons should be prohibited inside major cities even in regular campaigns.
In this one, anyone who is seen ANYWHERE with a weapon bigger then a knife better have a reason and a license to carry it.
Needless to say, only the formal guards are allowed to carry weapons within city limits.

- I wouldn't recommend special registration for monks, it's too hard to follow. Instead, forbid formal training of martial arts, and make it a major crime both for the students and the teachers.

- When it comes to laws, spell casters should be like a combinations of monks and fighters.
Spell books and any other accessory should be left at the gate, formal training outside the state's guild will be forbidden. Any use of unauthorized magic is a major crime.

- Bureaucracy.
You want a license for a spells or weapons? in addition to a strict choice according to your citizenship, make it very hard and frustrating to acquire one.
Less people with a license means more control to the formal army.