Hate "cheating" and wondering if I would be considered a jerk for doing this.

[Spo]

In a campaign right now with all but two people I have played with for a couple of years. The two other people just joined our group a few sessions ago and are new to the game. My problem is that I feel a lot of these players are conveniently forgetting limitation to their characters - namely spell slots.

Our gaming group consists of:

DM - newish to DM'ing but has played for a couple for years

Barbarian - no problem with him

Cleric - long time player who teaches the game at the game store

wizard #1- same as above

wizard #2 - new player

druid - new player

artificier - me

As you can see, all but one character in the party are casters w/ long rest recharge on slots. We are all level 7. In our session before last, we had a pretty hairy fight with a random monster and his minions that went approximately 5 rounds. Spells were thrown. We took a short rest after that and decided to attack the fortress/tower afterwards. This place is huge and we knew the cultist and their leaders and the boss is in there. As we were invading the place and killing one of the sentries, we ended the game that evening.

Because of planned trips and scheduling issues, we were not going to come back together for about a month and a half. Right after that game, I sent out a group text saying how fun the session was and recounting all the spells everyone casted and mentioning that it was going to be interesting going through the climax with diminished resources. People chimed in and were indicating that they were saving their last remain lvl 4 slot for this spell or would only use their slots for healing from now on or what not.

Last session started up and as we progressed through the adventure, I noticed a lot of spells being thrown out by couple a players and a few by others. I started putting marks on my sheet for each time someone used a non-cantrip/non-ritual/non-free feat spell. I said -sincerely- a couple of times during play, "nicely done - that was worth the slot" for when multiple enemies died to a fireball or lightning bolt. I also made mention how I was saving my last two slots (articifer = little slots) until absolutely necessary.

Our session broke for the evening and our party is still on first level of this dungeon (again stopped in mid-combat). A long rest would be crazy to do given all the alarms are sounding and guards keep running into us.

My spell slot count for certain members of the party exceed what they should have had.

What should I do? I want to send out another text saying how exciting the session was and recount how many slots people have used since last short rest. Am I being a kill-joy/fun police/rules lawyer for doing this? Should I just ignore it and just play my character within the rules? Let the DM know? It's not driving me so crazy that I want to quit the group (it's a little issue I know), but it's occupying too much of my thoughts when we play.

[Tawmis]

I would think it's fair to bring up to the DM first. Make them aware, especially if they're newish.

As a DM it's difficult to keep track of everything - let alone people's spell slots.

So the new people may not fully understand.

So approaching the DM first to ask them to bring it to the players... or ask the DM if they want you to explain spell slots (politely, naturally) - that might be beneficial.

Otherwise, embrace the madness and forgo spell slots and nuke nonstop - until you out damage them.

And then say, "Oh, we care about spell slots now?" :D
(The last part was a joke)

[Schwann145]

You narc!

No, I'm kidding.
That's incredibly unsportsmanlike of them. The game has rules for a reason, and ignoring the rules not only makes encounter design/running significantly harder for the DM, but also is unfair to those in the group who are not breaking the rules.

As mentioned already, I'd politely bring it up to the DM first. They do enough that they probably just can't be bothered to track everyone's spells, especially since basically everyone is a full caster (my god, what a chore!) So you keeping track is doing them a solid. But they can't police what they don't know is happening.

If the problem is with Wizard #2 and/or the Druid, it's probably just a new player misunderstanding of Long/Short rest recharging (hopefully). If so, easy to correct.
If the problem is with Wizard #1 and/or the Cleric, that's just flat about abuse and there's no excuse for it.

[Samayu]

Agree with the above. Talk to the GM and see how they want to handle it. Ideally, if it needs to be brought up, it should be them, rather than one of the players. Players don't like feeling like one of themselves is against them (not saying all players would feel this way), but it's totally fine for the GM to remind the players of the rules.

If the GM says, "yeah, that's cool, feel free to bring it up to the group," I would consider not doing so. And maybe letting them know why you won't.

[Anymage]

If it's one of the newbies, I'd pipe up to the DM or one of the veteran players. Depending on who you think is most likely to gently explain that spell slots are meant to be conserved as a game day resource, not per encounter.

If it's one of the veterans, give the DM a heads up. Sometimes players try to get something over on a DM who's new or just overworked. Usually just having someone to back up the DM can be encouraging, sometimes you need an extra player to help take some of the rules workload off the DM's hands. (I've been rules guy, new player assistance, and babysitter to people who weren't too fussed over tracking their resources before.) An experienced player trying to get something over on the DM is going to be problematic, and you'll want team playing-it-straight to be prepared.

[Rynjin]

Unless there's a persistent pattern of cheating, let it go. Breaking for a month and a half is going to strain peoples' memories of fine details like exactly how many spell slots or arrows or whatever a player has. Hell, if your GM is like me I basically just assume that people are going to "rest up" between sessions if there's a long absence, and write it off as a consequence of needing a hiatus.

[Dork_Forge]

I don't think you actually said who the count was off for, is it just the new players?

Do you play in person, or on a VTT?

[Anonymouswizard]

Unless there's a persistent pattern of cheating, let it go. Breaking for a month and a half is going to strain peoples' memories of fine details like exactly how many spell slots or arrows or whatever a player has. Hell, if your GM is like me I basically just assume that people are going to "rest up" between sessions if there's a long absence, and write it off as a consequence of needing a hiatus.

Seconding this Honestly it's also just easy to honestly forget to mark off slots/ammunition. I've done it occasionally in other games, I think the only game where slots were rigourously tracked was an Unknown Armies one. Honestly there's better ways to balance casters than rigidly enforcing spell slots. That goes double between sessions, and triple if there's a long break.

Most groups I know refresh at the start of a session anyway. Again I can only think of one group that didn't, and it tended towards grittier systems than modern D&D. It might well be worth just switching from slots/rest to slots per session (and rages per session). You could speak to your GM about your concerns, possible solutions, and related matters, then bring it up with the group and find a solution you can all play with. But if it's just an occasional mistake it's probably not worth it.

I mean, there are ways you could try to enforce this, like using tokens for spell slots* like many groups do for metagame currencies. At the end of the session have at least two people independently record everybody's remaining spell tokens, and hand out that many tokens next session. But being authoritarian about this is probably less fun than allowing the occasional slip.

If it happens repeatedly bring up your concerns with the group, and be ready to concede if everybody favours a more permissive approach.

* Which I plan to do next time I run UA, because throwing a token into the middle of the table is fun.

[Corran]

What should I do? I want to send out another text saying how exciting the session was and recount how many slots people have used since last short rest
That may seem passive agressive. Better be clear about what you want and talk about it. You could start the next session by telling everyone that you enjoy when the party is challenged by attrition (eg because that forces players to improvise when they are low on resources, or because it forces difficult choices both during battle and when out of it, eg retreat, bypass enemies, negotiating, or tactical choices like holding on choke points and dodging or using ranged weapons, etc etc). It seems like the DM is offering that game. Ask the other players if they want to play a game with this kind of challenge, or if they would prefer to ask the DM to change in the 5MAD or anything equivalent to that (eg regenerating resources instantly, with or without some artificial limit). If they do, then sugggest that someone tracks down HP, HD and spell slots at the end of each session (so that you dont forget where you were at when you finish one and start the next one). Ideally it should be the DM for the appearance of extra impartiallity, but you can offer to be the one doing it. The logical thing to hear, assuming everyone aggrees to play with non regeneraing resources, would be that everyone should keep count of their character's resources carefully from now on. Accept that or insist that someone does it for everyone, depending on how much you are willing to trust that this issue wont come back (for a second time) to the spotlight in the future.

[Mastikator]

Wizards may be using their arcane recovery feature without saying it out loud, thus getting more slots than you'd know. And clerics may be using harness divine power without feeling the need to announce it, again- more spell slots than you'd count.

[da newt]

At the start of the next session I'd ask the DM if the PCs had the opportunity to gain the benefits of a long rest or if you all were starting with diminished hit die, hp, spell slots etc? Have this discussion as a group, and move on - No need to accuse anyone.

[Ogun]

A free refresh between sessions is fine, but should not be presumed.
Counting slots is part of the game, not counting slots trivializes encounters.
When trying to balance Dr Strange vs. Captain America, Dr. Strange has to have limits placed on him.
Talk to the DM about it and follow his lead.
If he blows it off, either play your caster the same way, play things the right way or look for another group to join.

[Burley]

There's a player in my group who is kinda-sorta new to the game, especially to spellcasting. They're the party cleric, so, when that 5th casting of a 1st-level spell happens, its usually to heal somebody and I'm not gonna say something. But, I often remind them of their Channel Divinity or other class feature, which makes me think that they're not "cheating" so much as learning a somewhat complex system that requires more planning than some players are prepared for.

But, also, I mean, I'm not perfect, right? Sometimes I realize that my character knew we were going underwater and wouldn't have prepared that spell for underwater combat. So, I flub my prepared spells really quick, even thought we're already underwater. It's tough to manage one spellcaster without forgetting the nuances of preparation, and I'm not going to assume that I can track the other characters' spells, too, right?

It seems like the characters who had extra spell slots were Wizards? Maybe they used Arcane Recovery during a short rest between sessions to gain back, which gets them 3 spell levels worth of slots back. Keep managing your character out loud to set an example for diligent resource tracking.

[Demonslayer666]

When they cast a spell, ask them how many slots they have left. No accusations, just information sharing.

As a player, I usually don't hesitate to call out other players if I suspect them. Then again, we are all long time friends, so a bit of light accusation is fine. "Boy, that sure was a lot of spell slots you spent and we haven't had a long rest for the last x encounters, how ya pullin that off?"

As DM I don't track spell slots unless I suspect cheating. The one time I can recall tracking them, it never became an issue.

[Easy e]

Counter-question: Is it worth ending the fun you are having?

If the answer is yes, then bring it up to the GM, and possibly level set at the beginning of the next session.

If it is not worth risking the fun, then let it slide. The D&D police are not going to bust in your door and drag you away for not playing 100% accurately.

[KorvinStarmast]

If it is not worth risking the fun, then let it slide. The D&D police are not going to bust in your door and drag you away for not playing 100% accurately. Yes we are! Didn't you get the memo, Officer Easy e?

[Leon]

Talk to your DM, Let them know your concerns and then ultimately you will have to accept the choice they make on it but you will have done your part.

[Easy e]

Yes we are! Didn't you get the memo, Officer Easy e?

Hush, I was luring them in for an easy bust to hit my quota for the month!

[KorvinStarmast]

Hush, I was luring them in for an easy bust to hit my quota for the month! Dude, work the speeding tickets, low hanging fruit. :smallbiggrin:

[lall]

Your character could commit suicide. Write a note ahead of then, stating a right thing must be done in a right way. The party was somehow able to break the laws of magic, and your character didn’t want to be around for the karma. Bring in a new character and rinse and repeat so long as the cheating continues. In the end, you’ll either be satisfied that the cheating ceased or that you got to play many different characters all perturbed by the same issue that was weirdly never resolved.

[JNAProductions]

Your character could commit suicide. Write a note ahead of then, stating a right thing must be done in a right way. The party was somehow able to break the laws of magic, and your character didn’t want to be around for the karma. Bring in a new character and rinse and repeat so long as the cheating continues. In the end, you’ll either be satisfied that the cheating ceased or that you got to play many different characters all perturbed by the same issue that was weirdly never resolved.

That's a terrible idea.

It's an OOC issue-it should be addressed OOCly.

[Anteros]

Ultimately it's not our job to police our fellow players. If everyone is having fun is the most important concern anyway.

If it's truly effecting your ability to enjoy the game then I'd talk to the GM in person about it. It's very easy for text messages to be misconstrued, and you may find that by the time you meet up again you don't even care about the issue anymore.


Your character could commit suicide. Write a note ahead of then, stating a right thing must be done in a right way. The party was somehow able to break the laws of magic, and your character didn’t want to be around for the karma. Bring in a new character and rinse and repeat so long as the cheating continues. In the end, you’ll either be satisfied that the cheating ceased or that you got to play many different characters all perturbed by the same issue that was weirdly never resolved.

Whoo...that's...super passive aggressive. Personally I wouldn't want to play or be friends with someone who acted this way.

[AHF]

I think discussing with the DM is the right move. Sounds like you are holding back resources and at least annoyed that others are blowing through all of them and beyond. If the DM wants to treat each session as a refresh of slots, you’ll know that now and can commit more of your toys to the fight without worrying about conserving for next time. If the DM wants to track, then you’ve put the issue on their radar and they are better equipped in terms of group dynamics to address the issue.

[Reynaert]

Going to the DM with this could feel like narcing.

Maybe at the start of the session annouce in character you want to do a short planning huddle, announce how many hit points, hit dice, spell slote, and other resources you have left and ask every other character -just plain outright- how many they have left, so the group can plan accordingly.

[lall]

That's a terrible idea.
Positives:
1. Don’t have to bring it up to DM.
2. Don’t have to bring it up to players.
3. Playing within the rules, unlike some of the players.
4. Opportunity to bring in different characters.
5. Potential opportunity for the soul to not be willing to come back should a Raise Dead, etc. be attempted.

I’m not saying I would do it. Just brainstorming. I generally play bards, so sometimes overly dramatic solutions come to mind.

[Anonymouswizard]

Positives:
1. Don’t have to bring it up to DM.
2. Don’t have to bring it up to players.
3. Playing within the rules, unlike some of the players.
4. Opportunity to bring in different characters.
5. Potential opportunity for the soul to not be willing to come back should a Raise Dead, etc. be attempted.

I’m not saying I would do it. Just brainstorming. I generally play bards, so sometimes overly dramatic solutions come to mind.

In game solutions to put of game issues (which 'Aisling isn't tracking their spell slots' is) are horrible, rarely work,and make you that guy. Points 1 and 2 aren't positives, and any case where you're viewing point 3 as a positive you are being that guy. In fact, let's formulate it as one of those roleplaying laws people like.

A problem that cannot be settled by mature out of game discussion cannot be settled at all.

Now this discussion doesn't have to be with the whole group, or even the GM at first. But it needs to happen within the group. It's entirely possible that OP just missed the GM saying 'take a long rest' as they were getting their dice out, or weren't cced into an email.im this case such actions as you suggested are just uncalled for.

[Schwann145]

To people who argue that having fun is the most important part, you're not wrong, but you also don't let people slip themselves extra money in Monopoly just because having more hotels is fun.
Integrity is important. The rules exist for a reason; how does the Barbarian contribute as an equal when the Wizard can cast as many of their highest level spells as they want?

[Akal Saris]

Back in 2E, when I was new to D&D, I assumed my cleric could cast every spell listed for cleric/druid in the PHB, because I didn't know about major/minor spheres. Another player got so annoyed at me casting spells that weren't on my 'list' that the next session he gave me 3 pages, hand-written, of the complete list of spells that I had access to as a Cleric of Tyr.

I was absolutely not happy to learn that I had been playing wrong the entire time, because it turned out that "Gastre the Entangler" couldn't actually cast Entangle! It was both embarrassing and really annoying, and I've held this small, unspoken grudge now for 20 years.

My point in sharing this anecdote is 1) it's almost certainly an accident or mistake by a new player, and 2) you will probably be a **** for pointing it out.

[Anonymouswizard]

To people who argue that having fun is the most important part, you're not wrong, but you also don't let people slip themselves extra money in Monopoly just because having more hotels is fun.
Integrity is important. The rules exist for a reason; how does the Barbarian contribute as an equal when the Wizard can cast as many of their highest level spells as they want?

Players can have as much monopoly money as they want, the box is on fire because we're going to play a game that's actually fun and not six people each racing to enact the best strategy

Yes, not cheating is important, especially as D&D runs on an honour system (partially due to being so over abilities that tracking an entire party's resources is hard). I also rely on players accurately reading their Ability ratings in Unknown Armies, or totalling up Essence costs in Shadowrun. But sometimes the group doesn't actually want to bother with Essence Limits, Spell Points/Slots, or even die rolls. Which is all fine as long as everybody is honest with each other about what they're doing, or when going over your spell budget is an honest mistake or miscommunication. It's not the letter of the rules, but it's not cheating.

I remember a thread in the General Roleplaying forum a couple of years ago, where a poster basically asked if it's wrong to not mark off 'wasted' resources and use a biased die (specifically replaced numbers) because it made the game more fun for them. As I remember the general response was that the dishonesty is worse than the actual acts.

[Anteros]

To people who argue that having fun is the most important part, you're not wrong, but you also don't let people slip themselves extra money in Monopoly just because having more hotels is fun.
Integrity is important. The rules exist for a reason; how does the Barbarian contribute as an equal when the Wizard can cast as many of their highest level spells as they want?

Depending on who I'm playing with (kids) I might absolutely let them slip themselves extra money or whatever. The important thing is that everyone enjoys themselves. That includes people who enjoy following the rules as well though.

[Draconi Redfir]

Start a new tally at the next session, this time assume that they have full spell slots and keep track of what they cast at any given time, see if they still exceed their given slots, or if they're counting spell-slots, but refreshing them every new session.


I did that myself when i was new to the game, i kept track of what spell slots i used in the session itself, but wiped the slate clean whenever the game ended, even if we didn't have a long rest at any point between last session and new session.

Think it's mostly harmless, just a way of new players getting ahold of the rules one step at a time. If it bothers you, perhaps you could try and bring in some notebooks if they don't have any, or give them some tips on properly keeping track of spell slots.

Alternatively, ask them if they can keep a calendar of events going forwards, or a list of NPC names and identites or the like. Perhaps just having some experience keeping a document like this will help them get into the habit of keeping track of things in other regards. I started keeping track of passing days and events on a calendar because we were expecting something to happen after a certain amount of time had passed, but i found it so helpful that i continued doing it long after the fact and into future campaigns, this helped me remember events and timelines better, and get more into the habit of keeping track of things like weight limits, treasure, and the like.

[Easy e]

To people who argue that having fun is the most important part, you're not wrong, but you also don't let people slip themselves extra money in Monopoly just because having more hotels is fun.
Integrity is important. The rules exist for a reason; how does the Barbarian contribute as an equal when the Wizard can cast as many of their highest level spells as they want?

This just tells me that such actions would ruin your fun. That is fine.

If that is the case, then talk to the GM about it.

However, if it doesn't ruin your fun then you do not have to do anything.

Pretty straightforward really.

[Keravath]

I'd mention it to the DM and have them go over spell slots with the players. Have the DM remind folks that every time they cast a leveled spell it uses a spell slot and that they need to keep track of this on their character sheet. I would not accuse anyone of cheating.

It could be that the players forgot to remove spell slots the last session and since it was 6 weeks ago forgot that they forgot so they started with more than they likely should have. I know I sometimes forget to mark off a spell slot used in the midst of a fight.

It could be that the DM allowed everyone to start the session with full resources and you missed hearing them say that. It could be that the players thought that they start each session with full resources (this could especially happen if they have only played Adventurers League games previously since in AL you do start with full resources at the start of a session unless running a multi-session module or hardcover).

It could be that the characters used abilities to restore spell slots - Wizard has Arcane recovery on a short rest once/day while a cleric can use left over channel divinity to restore slots and there are some magic items like the rod of the pactkeeper for warlocks that can also restore spell slots. I think there is also a barbarian archetype that can restore some spell slots. There are probably other methods too.