Looking for sources of divine spells with no gods

[Saintheart]

Let's presume I'm working out more detail of my totally awesome homebrew setting which only has gods of the neutral or good kind, i.e. there's no overtly evil deities as such.

There is a cosmology which would allow for a sort of undefined "lower planes" thing.

What 3.5 mechanical support is there for divine spellcasting that doesn't depend on deities or the druid's spellcasting? Do particularly powerful denizens of the lower planes grant spells? Are there classes other than cleric and druid which can provide a reasonable gamut of divine spells without necessarily going favored soul or spontaneous divine casting like that?

(No, please don't tell me about the Ur-Priest. I'm essentially looking for base classes which could be taken by low-level NPCs and which allow for divine spellcasting support without cleric or druid levels.)

Any citations?

[Benji8070]

The Mystic from Dragonlance Campaign Setting was designed to be a divine caster without anyone to worship.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Clerics can get their spells from the ideal they follow, basically tapping on the universe's power the way druids tap on nature's. No, in lore, even demon lords cannot grant spells unless they access divinity somehow (looking at you, Orcus). The primordial elementals, however (Akadi, Grumbar, Kossuth, Istishia), are considered gods of their element and can grant spells. Sha'ir familiars often steal sparks of their power to give their master divine spells.

[ben-zayb]

Archivist from Heroes of Horror has full prepared casting with none of the deity baggage.

[Condé]

Divine Bards from UA :


Like druids, paladins, and rangers, divine bards need not designate a specific deity as the source of their spells.

I guess it qualifies.

[Telonius]

Away from my books at the moment, but I believe either Book of Vile Darkness or Fiendish Codex 2 had some text about certain archdevils granting spells. (Some specifics on what domains they had available, etc).

I know Deities and Demigods listed "The Academy" specifically as a non-deity philosophy that's capable of granting spells, under the section on Olympic gods.

[ShurikVch]

The "default presumption" is: divine magic comes from the faith - but not always from deities.
Otherwise - Sertrous (Elder Evils) wouldn't work
Dark Sun have no actual deities - but divine magic is still possible

[Biggus]

Away from my books at the moment, but I believe either Book of Vile Darkness or Fiendish Codex 2 had some text about certain archdevils granting spells. (Some specifics on what domains they had available, etc).


BoVD p.123 and p.80-81.

There's also a sidebar in D&DG (p.8) with some suggestions about it.

[Buufreak]

Sha'ir familiars often steal sparks of their power to give their master divine spells.

It takes a diplomacy check, and specifies that the gen is bartering for the magic. I would hardly call that stealing.

As to the topic, the Athar is a prestige class that specifically swears off gods and acquires divine magic otherwise.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Evil characters can become clerics of Neutral deities and cast spells just fine.

A lot of gods have aspects that evil characters (even ones who do it FOR TEH EVULS) can appreciate. A Neutral god of the sea, for instance, can still represent the cruel, violent nature of storm-tossed waves slamming ships against rocky shores, or the hopeless despair that comes from being left adrift on the uncaring currents. Even Good gods can have aspects like this, like how The Burning Hate has an aspect that Good characters have been duped into worshiping (but from the other direction, obviously).

[Particle_Man]

The evil clerics of neutral gods thing comes down to whether the neutral gods of your setting allow for evil clerics (like Wee Jas does) or forbid evil clerics (like St. Cuthbert does).

Failing that, Sorcerers have bluff as a class skill, can be evil, and could call themselves clerics of whatever god they wish to pretend to represent. :smallsmile:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I imagine there are cults to beings (real or fictional) that use the fact that belief-oriented clerics can gain spells to point to how their "gods" are real and just as viable as the Good and Neutral ones.

After all, if the gods grant spells to their faithful, and the cults' faithful are granted spells by their fiendish overlords, it follows that the cults are worshiping actual gods, right?

[Maat Mons]

Outside of specific campaign settings, I think Favored Soul is the only divine caster that requires a deity.

An evil character with the Heretic of the Faith feat can be a Cleric of a good deity.

[redking]

The Athar (from the planescape setting) can become clerics of "The Great Unknown". The Great Unknown has no dogma and makes no demands.

[Saintheart]

Thanks for the responses, everyone, that gives me lots of sources to go and plagiarise consider.

[Jack_Simth]

Let's presume I'm working out more detail of my totally awesome homebrew setting which only has gods of the neutral or good kind, i.e. there's no overtly evil deities as such.

There is a cosmology which would allow for a sort of undefined "lower planes" thing.

What 3.5 mechanical support is there for divine spellcasting that doesn't depend on deities or the druid's spellcasting? Do particularly powerful denizens of the lower planes grant spells? Are there classes other than cleric and druid which can provide a reasonable gamut of divine spells without necessarily going favored soul or spontaneous divine casting like that?

(No, please don't tell me about the Ur-Priest. I'm essentially looking for base classes which could be taken by low-level NPCs and which allow for divine spellcasting support without cleric or druid levels.)

Any citations?For low-level NPC's for support? Try the adept (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/adept.htm) on for size. From the DMG. The Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster) could also do you.