Mounted scouts

[Biggus]

The errata for Complete Adventurer stated that scouts can't use Skirmish while mounted. To me this seems like a needless nerf to an already distinctly mediocre class. Is there any good reason not to ignore this errata in games I run?

[Wildstag]

I think the Scout ACF from Dragon Magazine adds extra weight to the "ignore" argument.

The best argument I can see is that maybe WotC realized that the PrCs that give a full-attack and move while mounted, like Wild Plains Outrider, might make the Scout stronger than they anticipated... but it still doesn't make them a powerful class, so I dunno.

[Saintheart]

The errata for Complete Adventurer stated that scouts can't use Skirmish while mounted. To me this seems like a needless nerf to an already distinctly mediocre class. Is there any good reason not to ignore this errata in games I run?

No. No there is not. I can't read the writers' minds, but I would guess they were intensely concerned about a 20th level Scout adding a horrendous, truly stratospheric 15d6 to a fully successful full attack when it isn't even a full BAB class. A 15d6 which can be shut down by immunity to precision damage. A 15d6 with an expected roll value of 52 damage is clearly, in every way possible going to trivialise and make insignificant even the 20th level Fighter pulling out hundreds of points of expected damage via basic Power Attack combos and the 20th level Wizard warping reality.


Although note it only says that the mount's movement doesn't count towards the movement required for skirmish. Which means the simplest, stupid way to get around this even stupider errata is to pick up a fast mount and fast dismount ability via a good Ride check and the PHB's rules on free action mount, and thereby acquire at least 15 feet of movement as you vault over your horse as a free action and thus trigger Skirmish.

[Biggus]

Glad it's not just me who thinks it's stupid...


I think the Scout ACF from Dragon Magazine adds extra weight to the "ignore" argument.


What ACF is that?


No. No there is not. I can't read the writers' minds, but I would guess they were intensely concerned about a 20th level Scout adding a horrendous, truly stratospheric 15d6 to a fully successful full attack when it isn't even a full BAB class. A 15d6 which can be shut down by immunity to precision damage. A 15d6 with an expected roll value of 52 damage is clearly, in every way possible going to trivialise and make insignificant even the 20th level Fighter pulling out hundreds of points of expected damage via basic Power Attack combos and the 20th level Wizard warping reality.

LOL. Yeah, I've banned all the cheesier Power Attack stuff and our 20th-level Barbarian still does 200+ damage on an average round, 400+ on a good round.

[Saintheart]

Glad it's not just me who thinks it's stupid...

I mean, it's only the horse archer that various Eastern cultures used to smash other civilisations for thousands of years BC, why on Earth would anyone want to play something of that archetype?


What ACF is that?

Per the guys at minmax, Dragon 346, Page 87, there's two Scout ACFs there:
*Light Cavalry (Lose Fast Movement, Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight, Free Movement; Gain Special Mount, special mount bonuses)
*Sniper (Lose Skirmish, Fast Movement; Gain Snipe, which is precision damage against targets 60 feet or further away)

Of these, Light Cavalry seems to be the ACF that most implies you ignore the errata, because it basically makes you all but a horse archer. Sniper doesn't, because it flat out says "no extra damage if you move at all, but have some extra damage anyway for shooting outside the 60 foot range mark."

[Fizban]

They remove the most obvious way to improve your ability to deliver Skirmish damage, which happens to lead to PrCs that could let you get it on full attack*. But there's already a feat that will effectively let you do it on full attack anyway in another book**. They then print a bunch of very finicky little bespoke ways to get it on full attacks, but only if you have this specific magic item or ridiculous feat, and another feat that basically screams "play this specific build" and points you right at the first feat. Meanwhile they also print a cavalcade of ways for Rogues to ignore any and all restrictions on their much higher damage Sneak Attack, which has no full attack or movement restrictions.

Yeah, the anti-cavalry skirmish ruling is bad, ignore it. Also allow the Scout whatever ACFs/items/etc that you allow the Rogue to use to ignore the whole concept of precision damage vs living creatures.

*A surprising case of paying attention to things in the same book. Though you don't actually need such features if you just take the shooting while riding penalty (oh look, a reasonable tradeoff!)
**A feat that makes even less sense than usual and seems to have no reason to exist, particularly in the book it's printed in, but hey.

I mean, it's only the horse archer that various Eastern cultures used to smash other civilisations for thousands of years BC, why on Earth would anyone want to play something of that archetype?
The damage only kicking in at close range thanks to the 30' range limit even matches the historical attack pattern of charging straight at the enemy in order to make progressively more effective shots (then retreating and doing it again).

[Biggus]

Per the guys at minmax, Dragon 346, Page 87, there's two Scout ACFs there:
*Light Cavalry (Lose Fast Movement, Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight, Free Movement; Gain Special Mount, special mount bonuses)
*Sniper (Lose Skirmish, Fast Movement; Gain Snipe, which is precision damage against targets 60 feet or further away)

Of these, Light Cavalry seems to be the ACF that most implies you ignore the errata, because it basically makes you all but a horse archer. Sniper doesn't, because it flat out says "no extra damage if you move at all, but have some extra damage anyway for shooting outside the 60 foot range mark."

Thank you.


But there's already a feat that will effectively let you do it on full attack anyway in another book**.

What feat is that?



Also allow the Scout whatever ACFs/items/etc that you allow the Rogue to use to ignore the whole concept of precision damage vs living creatures.


That's a good idea, I will do that.

[Fizban]

What feat is that?
Greater Manyshot. It works like Manyshot, but instead of firing a bunch of arrows at a single target with a single shot, it somehow fires a bunch of arrows at different targets in a single shot (standard action), using different attack rolls and allowing crits and precision damage for each arrow/attack roll. The prerequisites aren't even increased, so you can take it at the same level you get Manyshot, at 6th, if you have a bonus feat at the same time. Its whole reason for existence is to take the restrictions on the Manyshot manuever away, even though those restrictions are there because it's the minimum that makes any sense for firing multiple arrows from a bow at the same time. Mechanically, this is only significant for the Rogue, who was not particularly hurting for ways to full ranged sneak attack, and. . . the Scout.

Greater Manyshot is found in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Its is not psionic and does not combine with anything there that I'm aware of. It is a feat which makes no sense, printed for no reason, in a book that has no place for it. Like someone just happened to write it and jammed it in because they could, because lol wouldn't it be funny if when they did the thing the arrows all went in different directions? It offends me.

Particularly when it makes the answer to "how do I optimize Scout" always turn into "use the Ranger combo feat to get skrimish on on a better base and get free Manyshot then immediately take Greater Manyshot." The feats don't quite line up perfectly, it's actually crazy jam-packed, and one of the worst examples of there only being one "viable build." It's suggested for the second wyrmlord in RHoD a lot.