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View Full Version : Inspiration from a critical FAILURE.



Ogun
2022-08-27, 08:57 PM
To preface, I think this would only be appropriate on rolls that are 9f consequence.

Instead of a true 20 granting Inspiration how about getting it on a roll of 1?
At that point, you can choose to accept the critical failure or negate it by rolling again with the Inspiration you just gained.

In essence you are offered an opportunity to trade negative consequences for a dose of Inspiration.
For characters doing something they are very good at, this will be an opportunity to fail but gain Inspiration.
For characters that would fail on a 1 anyway, it let's them suck a little less OR, fail at this task but gain Advantage on another.

Maybe you roll !on an Athletics check to climb a slippery cliff, but you are Strength based Grapple focused Bard with Guidence cast on you.
You wouldn't have failed on a one, but you decide to take the consequences.
You save yourself with a Feather Token, and use your Inspiration to make a difficult shot on your next Turn.

Maybe you are trying to be stealthy in heavy armor and you are not proficient in stealth OR heavy armor.
You might roll a 3 and a 1 and both might be two low, but the 1 gets you another chance to roll or you can just take the fail and use the Inspiration later.
You will probably still fail on your next roll, but you really don't see how an Inspiration in your pocket will help your team with the crapfest that getting caught will cause.
Your next roll just barely beats the passive perception of your foe

Rewarding setbacks makes more sense than rewarding success.
A true 20 is its own reward, even without it being an automatic success.

Inspiration on a 1 gives a second chance to the character that needs it most.
It might be an incentive to take a minor setbacks or benefit those who are prepared to mitigate failure.

So there are probably problems I'm not seeing, but I hope this is interesting enough to comment on.

Mastikator
2022-08-27, 09:02 PM
How does it interact with halfling's lucky thing?

Zhorn
2022-08-27, 09:09 PM
How does it interact with halfling's lucky thing?

I'd assume that's what Ogun means by "that are of consequence", so if you already having a feature that is negating the roll of a 1, then that result doesn't count

Regarding the OP's suggestion; I'd not have the inspiration be usable to the roll that just proc'd it.
It's just feels too much like it's stealing Lucky from the halfling so it's no longer as unique a feature, only this is better since if the roll's failure isn't too big of an issue you can accept it to hold onto that reroll for later.

But to just state my bias, I'm not fond of inspiration being from dice results to begin with.

Lord Vukodlak
2022-08-27, 11:52 PM
Rather then gaining inspiration from rolling a natural one. Gain inspiration from surviving a critical hit.

Tanarii
2022-08-28, 02:03 AM
I'd say only grant inspiration if you would have otherwise succeeded on a 1. That'd mitigate the inherent problems (pointed out in other threads) of Critical failure rules, but only for folks that would currently succeed without it. No special bonus for folks that would normally fail.

Unoriginal
2022-08-29, 09:22 AM
So there are probably problems I'm not seeing, but I hope this is interesting enough to comment on.

I would never give Inspiration for a die roll, personally. No matter what is the result on the die.

Inspiration is for when the character is doing inspiring things, and the like. The player rolling a die is not that.

Also, having 5% chances of getting Inspiration at random greatly cheapen the concept of Inspiration, IMO.

Psyren
2022-08-29, 10:06 AM
Cheapening it is kind of the point though. They've noted that most playgroups have DMs give it out sparingly, and then the players hoard it out of fear that they won't have it when they truly need it. This change directly means it will get given out more frequently (and in a way that puts less burden on the DM) which means players are more likely to spend it since they know more of it will be coming - especially since (unless they're human) they lose it when they go to bed anyway.

Tanarii
2022-08-29, 10:46 AM
Inspiration is balanced like 4e action points, to be used once or twice per session.

Cheapening it is a bad think. It's like the flanking rule, but on less steroids.

OvisCaedo
2022-08-29, 11:32 AM
Do people generally view inspiration as a particularly powerful or interesting mechanic? It always seemed very... unimpressive to me. It's certainly not BAD to be able to apply advantage to a roll (especially saves!), but advantage and disadvantage feel like they already get thrown around a lot for most things, and the "you can only hold one!" special resource being something you can spend and still fail anyhow feels odd to me.

stoutstien
2022-08-29, 11:39 AM
I personally pool Inspiration for the whole party so it takes multiple critical failures (total results more than or equal to 10 below the DC) to grant a floating bonus die that can be used on any D20 roll.

Rukelnikov
2022-08-29, 12:25 PM
Other systems grant stuff on a fumble, mechanically I generally prefer that to the winmore scenario created by getting it on a 20, though narratively the 20 makes more sense since the inspiration represents the momentum gained by that 20.

Though I wouldn't give the option to use the inspiration you just gained to negate the 1, otherwise you just gave everyone halfling luck.

Tanarii
2022-08-29, 06:01 PM
Do people generally view inspiration as a particularly powerful or interesting mechanic? It always seemed very... unimpressive to me. It's certainly not BAD to be able to apply advantage to a roll (especially saves!), but advantage and disadvantage feel like they already get thrown around a lot for most things, and the "you can only hold one!" special resource being something you can spend and still fail anyhow feels odd to me.

It would be cooler if it was an Action Point, like 4e, in effect giving an Action Surge.

Of course, 4e players used to forget to use those too ...

Rilmani
2022-08-30, 03:50 AM
Do people generally view inspiration as a particularly powerful or interesting mechanic? It always seemed very... unimpressive to me. It's certainly not BAD to be able to apply advantage to a roll (especially saves!), but advantage and disadvantage feel like they already get thrown around a lot for most things, and the "you can only hold one!" special resource being something you can spend and still fail anyhow feels odd to me.

Eh. In my experience, GMs forget to hand it out period, which means it gets hoarded for combat. PCs definitely should not regain it every short rest, but they really ought to get it at least once per arc. Preferably more. Inspiration as it stands is in a weird zone- a max of one, unable to share it with your allies by raw, it doesn’t have the extra functions of Action Points like feat modifications or class feature … And if a PC is getting a climactic scene, does it go with the flow of the roleplaying for the GM to add in “you get inspiration” two or more times within 10 minutes? What about within 30 minutes? Assuming you’re using said inspiration on roles during said scenes.

This wouldn’t be such an issue if inspiration worked like bardic inspiration and bless (or the optional proficiency dice rules). Or if D&D involved 3d6 instead of 1d20 for rolls- then advantage could turn it “roll 4d6, drop the lowest.”

Here’s an example of an off the cuff, martial-leaning option to gain inspiration in addition to “the GM just gives it out,”-

Last Stand- Spend and roll any number of hit dice and add the results. If the total equals or exceeds your current hit points, you gain Inspiration and one temporary hit point per hit die.

Should a player be able to gain inspiration on demand? Should there be different types of inspiration, perhaps one linked to attack rolls and saving throws while another is for ability checks? Should the player’s option have a failure chance? Should it be limited by uses per rest, on top of the above cost? Should it apply exhaustion levels? Should this form of inspiration have a time limit before it expires?

I don’t know. The new One DnD rules, including the Musician feat, are trying to involve Inspiration. And I think it should evolve at least a little beyond its current state.

Psyren
2022-08-30, 10:20 AM
Do people generally view inspiration as a particularly powerful or interesting mechanic? It always seemed very... unimpressive to me. It's certainly not BAD to be able to apply advantage to a roll (especially saves!), but advantage and disadvantage feel like they already get thrown around a lot for most things, and the "you can only hold one!" special resource being something you can spend and still fail anyhow feels odd to me.

I agree it's not the most exciting mechanic, especially when you already have easy sources of advantage. I've been toying with an idea of letting you cash in your inspiration for a weaker version of action surge, one that doesn't let you attack or cast a spell - so you can get a free Dodge, Disengage, Dash, Hide, Use an Object, Object Interaction etc.

Atranen
2022-09-02, 04:07 PM
I agree it's not the most exciting mechanic, especially when you already have easy sources of advantage. I've been toying with an idea of letting you cash in your inspiration for a weaker version of action surge, one that doesn't let you attack or cast a spell - so you can get a free Dodge, Disengage, Dash, Hide, Use an Object, Object Interaction etc.

This seems the right way to go. Currently, inspiration doesn't do anything, in terms of giving you additional options or new ways to interact with the world. Essentially a flat one time bonus. If it gave the players more options it would be more meaningful.

Lunali
2022-09-03, 07:59 PM
Do people generally view inspiration as a particularly powerful or interesting mechanic? It always seemed very... unimpressive to me. It's certainly not BAD to be able to apply advantage to a roll (especially saves!), but advantage and disadvantage feel like they already get thrown around a lot for most things, and the "you can only hold one!" special resource being something you can spend and still fail anyhow feels odd to me.

I find it rather unimpressive as it is, typically I will either let people hold more or allow it to be used retroactively. The version that worked the best so far was letting people hold two, but only one would carry over between sessions (unless you didn't roll after you earned the second).