Can a Paralyzed creature hold its breath?

[J-H]

Quoted from the SRD

A paralyzed creature is incapacitated (see the condition) and can’t move or speak.
The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage
Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.



Can a creature that is, say, grappled by a lacedon (aquatic ghoul), dragged underwater, and paralyzed by a claw attack, continue to hold its breath? A paralyzed creature cannot speak, but that could mean that it keeps its mouth shut rather than defaulting to "open, swallow water."

Asking to try to figure out how much trouble the party is in in a PBP module I'm test running. 4 of them dragged underwater and 2 paralyzed.

[Greywander]

I'd say the paralyzed players have bigger problems if it turns out that paralyzed creatures can't breathe. So question then is if a paralyzed creature can choose to hold their breath, which is a bit different from their mouth clamping shut and stopping all air flow.

I'm also not clear if paralysis is supposed to be limp or rigid. Do you ragdoll, or are you basically a frozen statue? Or is it both, and it just depends on how you get paralyzed?

[KorvinStarmast]

Can a creature that is, say, grappled by a lacedon (aquatic ghoul), dragged underwater, and paralyzed by a claw attack, continue to hold its breath? A paralyzed creature cannot speak, but that could mean that it keeps its mouth shut rather than defaulting to "open, swallow water."

Asking to try to figure out how much trouble the party is in in a PBP module I'm test running. 4 of them dragged underwater and 2 paralyzed. I'd apply the suffocating rules based on constitution, but if there's a save maybe apply disadvantage?

[Amnestic]

As one of the players in the situation where they are paralyzed and underwater (and likely dooming myself in the process), my answer is "maybe, but generally no".

If they weren't holding their breath beforehand, they're immediately suffocating. Holding your breath is an active thing you need to do, and you can't choose to start doing it if you're paralyzed.

If you were paralyzed underwater while already holding your breath, I'd say you keep holding it, because your body is locked in the 'holding breath' situation.

So for this situation where "If you got jumped, grappled, and dragged underwater when it wasn't on your turn, and then paralyzed underwater, could you hold your breath?" ...I'm kinda inclined to also say 'no'. There wasn't a chance to get a proper breath before being dragged under, so immediate suffocation. Maybe with an extra round for having a half-breath in the lungs but that's it.

[DarknessEternal]

Yes. Automatic suffocation is not on the list of what the paralyzed condition does.

[Psyren]

As DE mentioned, if paralysis meant you began to suffocate it would say so, so reasonably it doesn't interfere with breathing.

However, as KorvinStarmast said I would trigger the drowning rules normally since the player can't move to swim.

Ergo the player would get Con mod rounds to get out of the water somehow.

[Rukelnikov]

If they weren't holding their breath beforehand, they're immediately suffocating. Holding your breath is an active thing you need to do, and you can't choose to start doing it if you're paralyzed.

If you were paralyzed underwater while already holding your breath, I'd say you keep holding it, because your body is locked in the 'holding breath' situation.

So for this situation where "If you got jumped, grappled, and dragged underwater when it wasn't on your turn, and then paralyzed underwater, could you hold your breath?" ...I'm kinda inclined to also say 'no'. There wasn't a chance to get a proper breath before being dragged under, so immediate suffocation. Maybe with an extra round for having a half-breath in the lungs but that's it.

+1 /10char

[Lunali]

As DE mentioned, if paralysis meant you began to suffocate it would say so, so reasonably it doesn't interfere with breathing.

However, as KorvinStarmast said I would trigger the drowning rules normally since the player can't move to swim.

Ergo the player would get Con mod rounds to get out of the water somehow.

Triggering the drowning rules normally would mean they have 1+con mod minutes before they are out of air and then con mod rounds until they drop to 0.

[Psyren]

Triggering the drowning rules normally would mean they have 1+con mod minutes before they are out of air and then con mod rounds until they drop to 0.

I was going with an interpretation similar to Amnestic's where they didn't have time to hold their breath before being paralyzed. Even a 1 minute hold would be the length of most combats rendering the ability moot otherwise.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Yes. Automatic suffocation is not on the list of what the paralyzed condition does.

No, but preventing you from taking action to prevent suffocation is on the list of what it does.

The Restrained condition does not cause death from smoke inhalation, but if I leave you securely bound in a burning building, you will surely die.

[Rilmani]

I see it as a spectrum- Incapacitated, then Stunned, then Paralyzed, then Unconscious. All of these prevent object interactions and reactions, but pure incapacitation does not prevent someone from moving at 30 feet or more per round. Stun muddles speech and the final two prevent speech. Unconscious is the only condition which makes you fall prone.

I’d say unconscious creatures definitely cannot hold their breath. A stunned creature definitely can, and stunned creatures aren’t at risk of a free critical hit therefor they can still dodge a bit. Nothing in the rules says holding one’s breath takes a reaction. I’d say holding one’s breath is partly a reflex and partly a deliberate act.

My suggestion is to force the underwater character to make a Constitution ability check each round. DC equals the number of rounds they’ve been underwater. If they take any damage, add that damage to the DC for at least one round, not sure if it should stick around for later rounds… This clear risk makes it likely the character will fail early but not immediately, it makes their constitution modifier matter, and it allows a situation to escalate if, say, they’re being washed away towards sharp rocks by the current.

Obviously if the character’s paralysis ends, let them use the standard breath rules (X minutes).

[Chad.e.clark]

I'm also not clear if paralysis is supposed to be limp or rigid. Do you ragdoll, or are you basically a frozen statue? Or is it both, and it just depends on how you get paralyzed?

If we are just going based on how the PHB describes the conditions, I'd say paralysis is more frozen statue (100% muscular tension) vs ragdoll (0% muscular tension). Paralysis doesn't automatically trigger the prone condition, which would imply a standing creature who gets paralyzed continues to stand.
A person cannot stand with 0% muscular tension; however, there is always the counter-argument for real world physics vs DnD physics and all of that.

As for how all this relates to breath holding: muscular tension is required for inhaling moreso than exhaling (painting with broad strokes here). I'd go with drowning rules based on partial breath volume vs 0% breath volume, whatever difference the DM wants to make between those two.

[Greywander]

Wouldn't you fall prone either way? Standing up is not easy, especially for a bipedal creature. Our brains do a lot of subconscious heavy lifting calculating balance and making minute adjustments to our posture to keep us from falling over. It seems easy to us because we don't have to think about it, we just do it. So I'd think it wouldn't matter much whether it was 0% or 100% muscle tension, you'd still fall over.

Now, by RAW it doesn't say anything about paralyzed creatures falling prone. Nor does it say anything about paralyzed creatures drowning or not being able to regulate breathing. And TBH the paralyzed condition already sucks pretty hard, so I don't think it needs to be made harsher. But I also value consistency and verisimilitude, and anyway these are pretty niche cases. Heck, falling prone might be a stealth benefit, since it makes it harder to attack you from a distance, and the downsides don't really apply.

It's pretty easy to justify being able to regulate breathing. We can just say that the paralysis isn't total. You can probably blink and close your eyes. You might have limited neck motion, enough to tilt your head slightly to look in a different direction. You might be able to twitch your fingers. As long as it isn't total paralysis, holding your breath should be more than plausible.

[Asmotherion]

I'd say the paralyzed players have bigger problems if it turns out that paralyzed creatures can't breathe. So question then is if a paralyzed creature can choose to hold their breath, which is a bit different from their mouth clamping shut and stopping all air flow.

I'm also not clear if paralysis is supposed to be limp or rigid. Do you ragdoll, or are you basically a frozen statue? Or is it both, and it just depends on how you get paralyzed?
I'd say, it's more likelly "frozen statue" than "ragdoll" as it does not impose falling prone.

On the original question, I think it's resonable that they can hold their breath, as it does not involve more muscle function than actually breathing.

[Jak]

Yeah, you can hold your breath even if you're paralyzed. Standard breath holding rules apply. The real issue for the party will be finding a way out of the water while paralyzed. Plenty of suspense there.

[tiornys]

The problem with trying to adjudicate this interaction by verisimilitude is that it's just as easy to imagine forms of paralysis that wouldn't interfere with holding breath as it is to imagine forms that would not.

RAW: does not mention any impact to breathing
RAI: unclear
Verisimilitude: inconclusive
Rule of cool: inconclusive
Power level check: paralysis is plenty strong without this. Allowing paralysis to impact breathing is more likely to create balance issues than not allowing it

Between the RAW not specifying it and the power boost being unnecessary, I would rule that paralysis does not prevent the target from holding their breath.

[Demonslayer666]

Breathing is subconscious, and while it can be controlled by you, you still breathe while unconscious.

Paralysis means you lose control. So, no, you cannot control your breathing while paralyzed. Breathing would default to an unconscious state.

[tiornys]

Breathing is subconscious, and while it can be controlled by you, you still breathe while unconscious.

Paralysis means you lose control. So, no, you cannot control your breathing while paralyzed. Breathing would default to an unconscious state.
Do you stand while unconscious? No? Then I reject this as a necessary consequence of paralysis.

[Quixotic1]

Do you stand while unconscious? No? Then I reject this as a necessary consequence of paralysis.Fair point. But if paralysis goes so far that absolutely nothing moves, that would include your heart.

Maybe "absolutely unable to move in any way at all" is less helpful and leads to more problems than "essentially unable to move in any meaningful way".
You're 99.9% paralyzed. You can breathe, but barely. Etc.

[Lord Torath]

I submit this as irrefutable proof that you have at least marginal control over your breathing while paralyzed (by a Ghast, no less!): panel 7 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0115.html) (and 9).
We'll ignore completely the fact that this is for 3.5 rules, not 5e, and ignore even more completely that Rich doesn't force himself to adhere to RAW, or even RAI.

[J-H]

Thank you everyone!
I won't add drowning on top of paralysis.

[Sigreid]

I submit this as irrefutable proof that you have at least marginal control over your breathing while paralyzed (by a Ghast, no less!): panel 7 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0115.html) (and 9).
We'll ignore completely the fact that this is for 3.5 rules, not 5e, and ignore even more completely that Rich doesn't force himself to adhere to RAW, or even RAI.

Anyone here work in a care hope with a pool that can conduct a few tests and get back to us?

[Demonslayer666]

Do you stand while unconscious? No? Then I reject this as a necessary consequence of paralysis.

You stand while paralyzed but it's not you standing, it's you freezing in place. You are not controlling the standing.



Fair point. But if paralysis goes so far that absolutely nothing moves, that would include your heart.

Maybe "absolutely unable to move in any way at all" is less helpful and leads to more problems than "essentially unable to move in any meaningful way".
You're 99.9% paralyzed. You can breathe, but barely. Etc.

You are not in control of your heart beating, nor any other automatic bodily function (like digesting food).

[Jak]

Breathing is subconscious, and while it can be controlled by you, you still breathe while unconscious.

Paralysis means you lose control. So, no, you cannot control your breathing while paralyzed. Breathing would default to an unconscious state.

Breathing is actually semi conscious, similar to blinking. It rides that middle line between sympathetic and parasympathetic, and, in my opinion, should be in a category all its own.

These things are 100% conscious while we're paying attention, and mostly unconscious while we're not.

I did a brief search, and can't find any evidence that paralysis affects breathing, aside from not being able to take as deep of a breath.
I am, however, open to evidence to the contrary, as I'm certainly not a doctor.

[sithlordnergal]

Triggering the drowning rules normally would mean they have 1+con mod minutes before they are out of air and then con mod rounds until they drop to 0.

Not quite, the first sentence only applies if a creature chooses to hold their breath. If the creature runs out of breath or is choking, then they start using the "it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round)" rules. Given they couldn't take a breath since it wasn't their turn, they are choking on that water.

[Grim Portent]

The closest real world condition is Locked in Syndrome. Total paralysis of all voluntary muscle movements except varying levels of control over the eyes and eyelids. Autonomous functions, sphincters in the stomach, diaphragm movement and so on work as normal except that the voluntary uses of them don't work. They can't generally choose to breathe, only do so automatically if they can breathe unaided at all.

I don't think anyone has checked the see if they automatically hold their breath when being submerged in water mind you. Touch unethical.


In D&D terms I would assume that a paralysed person can hold their breath as normal. Neither Paralysis nor the Incapacitated condition say they can't, so I would generally default to the assumption that it doesn't override the rules that say they can hold their breath. I am personally not a fan of how hard it is to drown people in D&D mind you, crocodiles and lizardfolk worked hard for that lung capacity, they deserve to be able to drown their victims.

[Sigreid]

I don't think anyone has checked the see if they automatically hold their breath when being submerged in water mind you. Touch unethical.



Someone knows. Scientists have a long history of not worrying about ethics if they aren't being watched...

Not all of them of course, but a lot of our knowledge is down to some really, really shady to down right evil experiments.

[Witty Username]

Did the player of the paralyzed creature buy the pizza? I think the answer is the same