What class/subclass did you play that you thought would be fun but was not for you?

[Spo]

This is going to be personal to each player so please don’t be offended if your favorite class is listed here.

For me, battlesmith artificer isn’t as fun as I thought it would be. I was expecting a more wizard type play with steampunk style but being only a half caster with limited slots seemed limiting. Only at lvl 7 with this character but secretly hoping a good death is near for him.

I also thought that my Moon druid would have been fun. Played a Shepard druid to 15 and she was awesome. But after playing my moon druid to lvl 12, it was retirement time. Felt underpowered in later tier 2 and tier 3 and felt wildshape wasn’t as interesting as casting spells.

Conversely, didn’t have high hopes for a rune knight fighter I started at lvl 13, but really enjoying him now.

[Psyren]

1) The good news for your artificer is that you've hit the best breakpoint, i.e. Flash of Genius. If you want more raw magic, now's a great time to multiclass Wizard. Sure you'll miss out on 8th/9th-level spells, but you can still get up to 8th/9th-level slots.

2) Agreed on Moon Druid, it's positively broken in T1 but you just become a worse Land Druid at high levels when you gravitate back towards mostly casting.

[sithlordnergal]

---Classes---

Cleric: I've tried Cleric, I really have, and I've yet to enjoy them. Their spell list is too limiting, with too much of a focus on Divination spells which, if run RAW, are not that good. They have great low level spells...and that's it. Nothing to look forward to after that.

Warlock: I've also tried out multiple Warlocks. And each and every one had the same problem, they just don't get enough spell slots to meaningfully contribute as a caster. They are packaged as a proper casting class, but they just do not have the slots to do it. Now, I get that their slots come back on a short rest, which is great. But its not so great when you only have 2 spell slots and the encounters you're dealing with require a 3rd slot. Invocations can kind of help, but most of them give spells that either use a spell slot, or are too niche to really use. They have gotten somewhat better, but still, they're not that great

Ranger: ...You know, Ranger was my favorite class in 3.5. Its sad to see what happened to it. Now, they have greatly improved it via subclasses, and those subclasses go a long, long way. But its still just disappointing to play.


---Subclasses---

Divine Soul Sorcerer: I love the sorcerer, and I love Soradins. While Divine Soul is great on paper, its pretty disappointing because of your limited number of spells known. If it just had a few more bonus spells, then it'd be perfect.

Assassin: I think we all know the problem with Assassins. The surprise rules are scuffed. You're realistically never going to pull off the abilities that use the Surprise condition because there's too much that can go wrong. From poor luck on party stealth checks, to requiring your party to shoot first and ask questions never. Its just not gonna consistently happen.

[MadBear]

For me it's the warlock. It just doesn't have enough interesting features.

I thought invocations would fix that, but you just don't get enough of them.

I wish they be separated them out a bit more because many are really fun, but they're not worth the very limited amount you get.

[nickl_2000]

My glamour bard just wasn't what I hoped it would be. Part of the problem was it was a slow campaign and only got to level 5, the other was that it was an early PC in 5e and I just wasn't ready to play a short character.

I would try again in a higher level campaign or now that I have more experience,

[animorte]

For me it's the warlock. It just doesn't have enough interesting features.

I thought invocations would fix that, but you just don't get enough of them.

I wish they be separated them out a bit more because many are really fun, but they're not worth the very limited amount you get.

Alternatively, this is exactly why I love the Warlock. I can play 12 different Warlocks going for entirely different builds and the invocations help to focus that much better (as well as some spell selection and subclass). If there were too many invocations available, I could just do most of everything for every build in one PC. Looking at you, Celestial Generalist.

[stoutstien]

Full casters in general. Too many win buttons it almost defeats any sense of satisfaction.

[MrStabby]

Warlock.

Played a lethal campaign so there was such an incenive to hold back something for that nighttime ambush, for that attack whilst you are resting, something to get you out of trouble - of course with difficulty takiing rests in unsecure areas and keeping a spell slot back for "emergencies" I was frequently casting one levelled spell per day. Also, the warlock spell list leans pretty hard into the stereotypical eldritch themes, which wasn't a great fit for my fey warlock. I kep that one going for a lot longer than I should have - always in the belief that things were just about to get better... and by the time it was clear things were not going to get better it was close to the end of the campaign. A later warlock was a bit better, but still the lack of flexability on use of power meant that so many encounters felt like I was wasting power or just not using anything special.



Rogue.

I was so excited about all the cool stuff I thought I was going to do. Climbing up to high places, grabbing treasure, sneaking by unseen... As it turns out this is a lot of situatonal stuff that the DM has to kind of enable you to do. Even worse, I found a lot of the cool stuff could be better done by spells - mostly polymorph. Even at high level, use magic device kind of sucked - I got to finally cast the spells tha others had been casting for most of the game.


Life Cleric

This one is a bit of a cheat as I didn't really mind it so much. I was playing as an occasonal player in a different group to usual. As more of a background character I leant hard into healing, and it was pretty fun. Then another PC died and the player rolled up a twilight cleric. Suffice to say healing spells were almost entirely redundant after that.



On the flip side, becuase I like positivity... I enjoyed a shadowmonk more than I thought I would and the revised ranger was also more pleasing than expected.

[Schwann145]

Barbarian.

Did a Storm Herald Barb in a sea-faring campaign and, surprisingly, the subclass was fine (despite not being regarded very well, generally) but the Barbarian chassis was horrible.
I learned the very hard way that, if you don't play *exactly* to the trope of "hit it with a big stick" then the class just suffers, immensely. Trying to be a successful Barbarian without a heavy/two-handed weapon and the matching Feats is crippling, but I was trying to stick to the theme, using things like a cutlass, boarding axes, one-shot pistols, etc... you know, because pirates!
It really revealed to me how flawed and one-note the entire class is, and it's super unfortunate because the "savage warrior" is a trope I'm generally a fan of. D&D just fails to be thoughtful.

[Frogreaver]

I've tried quite a few Clerics. In general, I've had the least fun playing them despite viewing them as overall strong.

My most fun has came from Barbarians, Rogues, Fighters and Wizards.

[da newt]

Druids - I really like the class but both of the druids I've been able to play have been more frustrating than fun, but I think this was due more to the DM and setting then to the class.

Not the question you asked but - I've had the same experience with playing flying PCs - I really like the idea, but my real world experience has been more negative than positive because I haven't found a DM who could 3D yet.

[Jerrykhor]

Wild Magic Sorcerer. I knew from the start that it wasn't going to be a powerful subclass, but I thought it would be fun.

Turns out my luck is not as random as i imagine it to be. Throughout the LMOP campaign, i think i only manage to get 5 different surges, because i keep getting the same surge multiple times. Also, once the DM knew he had the final word in deciding if I surge or not, it was downright terrible.

[Veldrenor]

Sea Sorcerer. The DM was allowing UA and many of the subclass' abilities seemed perfect for replicating my concept of an oblex that believes its actually one of the adventurers it ate. In practice, however, things rarely clicked. Curse of the Sea wants you to cantrip spam, but most of our fights were tough enough that I had to be throwing down real spells. Even if I relied on Cantrip -> apply curse -> quicken spell -> proc curse, I didn't know enough spells to take both what the party needed and a variety of spells to proc the curse. I think at the end the only non-cantrip I had that could proc it was Lightning Bolt. The entire experience was just this constant feeling of friction, and Watery Defense at level 6 wasn't enough to ease it. Every time the character got downed I was thinking "good, let this cat die so I can bring in something new." When Tasha's came out the DM let me rebuild the character as an Aberrant Mind and it's been a vastly more enjoyable experience.

[Witty Username]

I think the closest I have gotten to this was Way of the Four Elements monk, but that was hella fun, just not for the reasons I expected. The Hadoken stuff, nah, didn't really work. Shape the Flowing River, overpowered as all get out if your on a boat being attacked by another boat. And flying is always fun no matter how you get it. And stunning strike is overrated.

[DarknessEternal]

Ranged Rogue/Arcane Trickster.

Most boring thing I can even imagine now.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Nature Cleric. Not quite sure why; maybe I didn't have a great idea for character development from the get go. The whole shillelagh thing seemed a little weird to me for some reason. Packed it in at the end of tier 1. I think that's the only Cleric our group has had that wasn't really memorable and fun, including my first 5e character, a Light Cleric.

[Ulsan Krow]

Inquisitive Rogue

[Hael]

Draconic sorceror!

Further, monoclassed direct damage blasting casters in general. They spike when they get fireball, but that’s basically the highpoint, and they never really recover from there (doing basically subpar damage relative to their martial brethren).

Yes they can be made to work with complicated spell choices and multiclassing but out of the box they definitely don’t work.

[MrStabby]

Nature Cleric. Not quite sure why; maybe I didn't have a great idea for character development from the get go. The whole shillelagh thing seemed a little weird to me for some reason. Packed it in at the end of tier 1. I think that's the only Cleric our group has had that wasn't really memorable and fun, including my first 5e character, a Light Cleric.

Ouch. I feel you got a bit unlucky here. I played one and had a blast... from T2 onwards. Spirit guardians and thorn whip was excellent. Dampen elements was superb. But T1, yes a feel you. Spike growth is about the only really nice to have thing in T1.




Draconic sorceror!

Further, monoclassed direct damage blasting casters in general. They spike when they get fireball, but that’s basically the highpoint, and they never really recover from there (doing basically subpar damage relative to their martial brethren).

Yes they can be made to work with complicated spell choices and multiclassing but out of the box they definitely don’t work.

A gree with you in general - I would say that fiend pact warlock does go a bit further with this though. Damage from spells can still be decent enough, but only the top level of spells or spells tha can do this without eating an action. With a decent number of short rests a fiend pact warlock can do enough fireballs per day to feel useful well into late T2 in my experience. Add in wall of fire and repelling blast etc. and you have a damage based warlock that might not feel like its dropping off so hard. Generally I agree though.

[Asmotherion]

I've played a Druid, and the class is interesting and all, but it's RP is generally not for me.

[Demonslayer666]

I can honestly say that I have not found one that was not fun.

I've played a lot of different systems, where classes don't really exist. I've also been handed many characters at gaming conventions and just play.

My outlook is probably different than most. I find the most fun in just getting together with my friends and I've found that the system/game we play doesn't really matter.

I have heard that it sucks to play a cleric in old D&D. People didn't like that roll being necessary to succeed. I see that as a DM not appropriately challenging the party. A healer should not be necessary, and the challenges should be based on the party's and player's capabilities.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Illusion wizard because, well, illusions. I just ignored illusions after a while and it was adequate, but the subclass side sucked.

On the other hand, currently playing an Arcana cleric and quite enjoying it, although I haven't had a single chance to use Spellbreaker.

[Ulsan Krow]

I can honestly say that I have not found one that was not fun.

I've played a lot of different systems, where classes don't really exist. I've also been handed many characters at gaming conventions and just play.

My outlook is probably different than most. I find the most fun in just getting together with my friends and I've found that the system/game we play doesn't really matter.

I have heard that it sucks to play a cleric in old D&D. People didn't like that roll being necessary to succeed. I see that as a DM not appropriately challenging the party. A healer should not be necessary, and the challenges should be based on the party's and player's capabilities.

Banneret - 'allow me to introduce myself'

[ImproperJustice]

I found Bard to be the most dull.
Sure I could do a lot but it seemed to be all about doing things for other people which felt very unnecessary after a bit.


On the flip side: I ran a Fey Pact of Chain Warlock and had an amazing time.
I was more of a stealthy / info gathering type and it was quite fun.

I also don’t conserve spell slots.

I beat FF6 when I was 12 with like 50 MegaElixirs in my inventory and had an epiphany. So many battles I struggled through because I was afraid of what might happen as opposed to using my resources and breezing through what’s hard.

So yeah, I apply that philosophy to gaming in all its forms.
Potions, Scrolls, God Boons?
I call em all in whenever anything remotely threatening shows up and I always feel like I had fun. And then when bad stuff did show up, the resources saved by using consumables usually were enough to win against the hypothetical ambushes which rarely ever come.

Because if you always play like you have nothing left then you may as well not have it in first place.

[Ionathus]

Eagle Totem Barbarian - I'd thought that the disadvantage on OAs and Dash as a bonus action would come up more often than it did. However, being a barbarian, I didn't really have a lot of reasons to need the extra mobility. It maybe came up once, but I could've just as easily thrown a javelin that turn. Ultimately, I should've just gone Bear Totem - I wanted to break the mold and not make the "obvious" choice, but every time I took non-weapon damage all I could think was "sure wish I was Bear Totem"

Moon Druid - Exacerbated by choosing Human: I had literally zero useful features outside of Wild Shape and Spellcasting. It was still a blast and I was able to have fun with wild shapes and, later, elemental shapes...but I suffered a lot for the lack of circle spells.

Drunken Master Monk - I stand by this choice: I think this PC could've shone at the right table. I had all these ideas of how I'd duck and weave between enemies and get off Stunning Strikes on the mage at the back of the pack...it never happened. We fought a single caster the entire time. The DM just kept throwing packs of giants at us in never-ending waves. My understanding is that Drunken Master is no gamebreaker already, but I'm still sad for what could have been.


For me, battlesmith artificer isn’t as fun as I thought it would be. I was expecting a more wizard type play with steampunk style but being only a half caster with limited slots seemed limiting. Only at lvl 7 with this character but secretly hoping a good death is near for him.

Conversely, my battlesmith artificer has become an absolute beast, way crazier than I expected when I first rolled him up. The action economy, versatility, and staying power of this boi is insane.

Practically SAD with Battle Ready fixing your attack modifier and all your abilities having "mod/LR" uses, so maxing INT is a painless no-brainer
Arcane Jolt does most of the damage of a Divine Smite, without sacrificing spellslots, but can also be used to heal an ally or yourself as a free action!
Flash of Genius has insane potential in combat for crucial saving throws, or outside combat for social/exploration ability checks.
Steel Defender gives a great fallback Bonus Action and basically the Protection fighting style for free. If you're a gnome like my PC is, you can ride it too!
Spell-storing item breaks the game in delicious ways, though of course post-10th level that ain't difficult.

I can definitely see having a hard time with it if you were hoping for a spellcaster vibe. Battle Smith really shines as basically an INT Paladin, and boy do they shine if you max their INT.

[Oramac]

Artificer for me. Specifically, Armorer Artificer. It sounded super cool and fun, but it didn't really deliver for me. Perhaps I was in the wrong group, or needed to stick with it longer (we only got to 5th level).

On the flip side, despite it being regarded as terrible, I've played a couple rangers that were a ton of fun. A str Drakewarden with a greatsword, and a ranged Starseeker (my own homebrew subclass).

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Ouch. I feel you got a bit unlucky here. I played one and had a blast... from T2 onwards. Spirit guardians and thorn whip was excellent. Dampen elements was superb. But T1, yes a feel you. Spike growth is about the only really nice to have thing in T1.





A gree with you in general - I would say that fiend pact warlock does go a bit further with this though. Damage from spells can still be decent enough, but only the top level of spells or spells tha can do this without eating an action. With a decent number of short rests a fiend pact warlock can do enough fireballs per day to feel useful well into late T2 in my experience. Add in wall of fire and repelling blast etc. and you have a damage based warlock that might not feel like its dropping off so hard. Generally I agree though.

Yeah, it wasn't that it was bad. I'd say Clerics even if you discount subclass, are one of the stronger classes in tier 1. I just didn't 'get' it or maybe identify with the character.

[Telwar]

Warlock without short rests is really crappy.

[Kane0]

Thought Artificer would have been more fun than I actually had with it, though that may have been more to do with the party. Lots of factors

[Xihirli]

Warlock without short rests is really crappy.

What’s like an ideal party that all love short rests?
Battlemaster / Monk / Warlock / what else?

[Kane0]

What’s like an ideal party that all love short rests?
Battlemaster / Monk / Warlock / what else?

Bard and Cleric get Inspiration and Channel respectively, otherwise Rogue I suppose?

[stoutstien]

What’s like an ideal party that all love short rests?
Battlemaster / Monk / Warlock / what else?
Druid and or any cleric with a strong channel divinity

[nickl_2000]

Druid and or any cleric with a strong channel divinity

Battlemaster Fighter
Way of Mercy Monk
Efreeti Genie Warlock
Twilight Cleric

You've get broken THP, great healing with the Cleric and Monk, striking and debuffs with Monk, Damage and tanking with Battlemaster, and raw blasting with the Warlock.

You could also substitute Rune Knight, Arcane Archer, and Psi Warrior for the Battlemaster, and Moon Druid for the Twilight Cleric.

There is one that was forgotten in the Soulknife Rogue. They get all their Psionic Energy dice back at a short rest.

[stoutstien]

Battlemaster Fighter
Way of Mercy Monk
Efreeti Genie Warlock
Twilight Cleric

You've get broken THP, great healing with the Cleric and Monk, striking and debuffs with Monk, Damage and tanking with Battlemaster, and raw blasting with the Warlock.

You could also substitute Rune Knight, Arcane Archer, and Psi Warrior for the Battlemaster, and Moon Druid for the Twilight Cleric.

There is one that was forgotten in the Soulknife Rogue. They get all their Psionic Energy dice back at a short rest.

Solid list though SK rogues get all their dice back on a LR and can recover 1 as a bonus action per short rest.

Hands down my favorite recovery pattern is all on LR and some of SR. Keeps players from feeling the need to turn and burn resources.

[nickl_2000]

Solid list though SK rogues get all their dice back on a LR and can recover 1 as a bonus action per short rest.

Hands down my favorite recovery pattern is all on LR and some of SR. Keeps players from feeling the need to turn and burn resources.

You are completely right, apparently the Psi-Warrior is the same way. I was reading through it to quickly.

[Bobthewizard]

The only subclass I'll never play again is a shepherd druid. It's way too powerful in tier 2.

It was great at first, when I was first commanding all those summons. I enjoyed the tactical combats with it. But eventually it became clear that since that was so much more powerful than anything else we could do as a party, that I needed to summon lots of cr 1/4 beasts at least once every combat.

I liked my character, a sort of Snow White with an attitude, and loved the campaign and the fellow players, but I wish I had played a more balanced character.

Fighters, barbarians, rogues, and rangers all bore me mechanically, but I knew that might be the case going in. It's too bad, because I like the backstories I can make for those classes.

[stoutstien]

You are completely right, apparently the Psi-Warrior is the same way. I was reading through it to quickly.

It is oddly formatted due to how the paragraph breaks. First off the dice needed it own header in bold and probably bullet point for the three main features.
LR recovery
SR recovery
Die size increase progression.

[Xihirli]

Battlemaster Fighter
Way of Mercy Monk
Efreeti Genie Warlock
Twilight Cleric.

See, but with this party comp I’d have to play in a game with a Twilight Cleric and be bored out of my mind.
Rogues don’t really care about short rests except for soul knives, and the main druids who run out of wild shapes are Moon.
So I guess I’d plug in Moon Druid over Twilight Cleric.
I don’t know, I guess I think the only clerics who are burning through their channel divinities are the busted boring ones, since the feature was designed around them being mostly situational. I think from the PHB the Light Cleric is the only exception?
Life is pretty good too, but can’t bring anyone over half their max which is why I say situational – it’s yet another heal that you should save until people are down on a class that has no shortage of those.

[RogueJK]

What’s like an ideal party that all love short rests?
Battlemaster / Monk / Warlock / what else?

Moon Druid.

[PallyBass]

I played the original Beastmaster Ranger halfling that rode her panther pet in a Curse of Strahd campaign. It was incredibly underwhelming, felt like playing a worse paladin who could shoot a bow. later I got a custom magic rapier that did 2 more damage with each successive hit (max +10) which just made me wish I was a Fighter.

I also played a Mountain Dwarf Conjuration Wizard with 8 Intelligence as an experiment to see if it was doable (use spells that auto succeed like magic missile, wall of force, summoning etc.) in Storm Kings Thunder campaign. It was disappointing for one big reason, intelligence governs how many spells you can have prepared each day so I had VERY few spells available to cast. He was hilarious to play though...Highlights include:
Winning a wizards duel by grappling and drowning the enemy in a pond.
Going insane multiple times from attempting "Contact other Plane" and failing the Int saving throw.
Strolling around in Heavy Armor and Max Strength as a wizard (I grabbed Heavily Armored Feat and put ASI into Str)
Sucking at Arcana checks lol
"Fooling" my party members into thinking I was not a wizard, mostly at early levels. They kept forgetting I was a wizard since I would smack things with my hammer. Then later we would find some magic item and I would pipe up "oh I can identify that" and they would be confused haha.

[diplomancer]

See, but with this party comp I’d have to play in a game with a Twilight Cleric and be bored out of my mind.
Rogues don’t really care about short rests except for soul knives, and the main druids who run out of wild shapes are Moon.
So I guess I’d plug in Moon Druid over Twilight Cleric.
I don’t know, I guess I think the only clerics who are burning through their channel divinities are the busted boring ones, since the feature was designed around them being mostly situational. I think from the PHB the Light Cleric is the only exception?
Life is pretty good too, but can’t bring anyone over half their max which is why I say situational – it’s yet another heal that you should save until people are down on a class that has no shortage of those.

Death Cleric also has a powerful and always useful Channel Divinity, without being totally bonkers. Bonus points for the philosophical discussions with the Mercy Monk about Death.

[Sigreid]

I did not enjoy sorcerer.

On the flip side, I'm having a blast with my Battlesmith Artificer. I opted for the gunner feat and hea has repeating shot on a flintlock pistol. Interestingly, my spells are mostly used to help patch up the party after a fight and I play him much more as a part off tank with range. It's crazy how much more suvivablility a steel defender adds.

[JonBeowulf]

Rogue Mastermind... but prob due to party composition.

I've seen a lot of sorcerers but none of them really shined so I've avoided the class. I'll stay with what I know: Barbs and Pallys. Having a blast with a OH Monk right now, though.

[Jak]

I wanted to make a Jedi, so I went with Battlesmith artificer with Green Flame Blade.

It felt like a one trick pony. I think I just had the wrong expectations for the class.

Conversely, monk is frickin great. He's great in exploration, martial arts and FoB feel nice, and although, I don't have the same damage highs as our fighter, I feel like he's more consistent with the damage he does deal.

Oddly enough, I feel the monk would make a better base for a Jedi, if that was what I was going for.

[Dork_Forge]

I wanted to make a Jedi, so I went with Battlesmith artificer with Green Flame Blade.

It felt like a one trick pony. I think I just had the wrong expectations for the class.

Conversely, monk is frickin great. He's great in exploration, martial arts and FoB feel nice, and although, I don't have the same damage highs as our fighter, I feel like he's more consistent with the damage he does deal.

Oddly enough, I feel the monk would make a better base for a Jedi, if that was what I was going for.

For what it's worth, I've had a blast using a Githyanki Psi Warrior as a Jedi, you get the sick flips and force tricks. The only thing you're lacking is the lightsaber, but you can grab light to cast on a longsword until you find something more suitable.

[Kane0]

I wanted to make a Jedi, so I went with Battlesmith artificer with Green Flame Blade.

It felt like a one trick pony. I think I just had the wrong expectations for the class.

Oddly enough, I feel the monk would make a better base for a Jedi, if that was what I was going for.

Absolutely agreed, did this a few years back


Level 3: Disciple of the Elements
You know two elemental disciplines of your choice from the list below. You learn one additional elemental discipline of your choice at 6th, 11th and 17th level. Whenever you learn a new elemental discipline, you can also replace one elemental discipline that you already know with a different discipline.

Elemental disciplines allow you to cast spells using your Ki. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting. To cast one of these spells, you use its casting time and other rules, but you don't need to provide material components for it. Casting a spell uses Ki points as shown on the table below.



Spell level
Monk level
Ki Cost


Cantrip
3rd
0


1st
3rd
2


2nd
6th
3


3rd
11th
4


4th
17th
5



Level 3: Dance of the Tide
You can use your Deflect Arrows ability on ranged spell attacks that target you and deal Acid, Fire, Cold, Thunder or Lightning damage.

Level 6: Stoke the Inner Flame
Once per turn you can add your Wisdom modifier as extra damage to the damage of one attack you make. This extra damage is your choice of Cold, Fire, Lightning or Thunder damage.

Level 11: Flowing Form
When you use an Elemental Discipline to cast a spell with a casting time of one action, you can spend a number of Ki equal to the level of the spell (minimum 1) to change the casting time to one bonus action.

Level 17: Seed the Soil
When you cast a spell of 1st level or higher from one of your Elemental Disciplines you can also summon one mephit of your choice to an unoccupied space within 10 feet of you.
A summoned mephit disappears after 1 hour or when it drops to 0 hit points.

Summoned mephits are friendly to you and your companions, acting immediately after your turn as a group, which have their own turns. They obey any verbal commands that you issue to them (no action required by you). If you don’t issue any commands to them, they defend themselves from hostile creatures, but otherwise take no actions.

Elemental Disciplines
Caustic Scintillation: Acid Splash, Chromatic Orb, Dragon's Breath, Elemental Weapon
Dire Flame: Produce Flame, Burning Hands, Flaming Sphere, Fireball
Heavenly Wave: Shape Water, Create or Destroy Water, Blur, Wall of Water
Immortal Stone: Magic Stone, Earth Tremor, Earthen Grasp, Erupting Earth
Phoenix Wing: Control Flames, Faerie Fire, Pyrotechnics, Ashardalon's Stride
Shaping Summit: Mold Earth, Firm Grounding, Earthbind, Meld into Stone
Storm Dragon: Thunderclap, Thunderwave, Gust of Wind, Wind Wall
Sweeping Torrent: Water Whip, Grease, Misty Step, Tidal Wave
Unbroken Wind: Gust, Fog Cloud, Warding Wind, Gaseous Form
Winter Breath: Ray of Frost, Ice Knife, Binding Ice, Sleet Storm

Optional: Jedi Powers
Fright: Minor Illlusion, Cause Fear, Calm Emotions, Fear
Jump: Repulsion, Jump, Enhance Ability, Fly
Lightning: Shocking Grasp, Witch Bolt, Electric Loop, Lightning Bolt
Mind Trick: Friends, Command, Suggestion, Hypnotic Pattern
Push: Mage Hand, Catapult, Levitate, Bounding Weapon
Speed: True Strike, Longstrider, Blur, Haste

[Spo]

The only subclass I'll never play again is a shepherd druid. It's way too powerful in tier 2.

It was great at first, when I was first commanding all those summons. I enjoyed the tactical combats with it. But eventually it became clear that since that was so much more powerful than anything else we could do as a party, that I needed to summon lots of cr 1/4 beasts at least once every combat.



I had the exact same experience playing my Shepard druid. Played her to level 16 in mad mage but everything the GM sent at us I could take care of solo. In fact, I felt guilty when I upcasted summon animals and threw an army of flying snakes at the level boss.

[animorte]

I had the exact same experience playing my Shepard druid. Played her to level 16 in mad mage but everything the GM sent at us I could take care of solo. In fact, I felt guilty when I upcasted summon animals and threw an army of flying snakes at the level boss.

I imagine that particular subclass was banned from that table henceforth. Many a DM have banned them there shenanigans.

[stoutstien]

I had the exact same experience playing my Shepard druid. Played her to level 16 in mad mage but everything the GM sent at us I could take care of solo. In fact, I felt guilty when I upcasted summon animals and threw an army of flying snakes at the level boss.

Oddly the druid spell list has the best selection of spells that can directly shut down mass summons.

[Arkhios]

So far, it has been an Eldritch Knight, but maybe I just made poor choices with spells, or something. I dunno.

Then again, it was a one-shot and I got nearly one-shot myself in that session so the character didn't get to do much.

[MrStabby]

So far, it has been an Eldritch Knight, but maybe I just made poor choices with spells, or something. I dunno.

Then again, it was a one-shot and I got nearly one-shot myself in that session so the character didn't get to do much.

I think I have got pretty good at identifying the classes that will not bring me joy now. Eldritch knight is certainly on that list.

Spells being the 'special thing' of the archetype but not being special, coupled with spending so few turns on most adventures actually casting spells is not going to thrill me.

I don't think it's a bad class, just a frustrating one.

[Dienekes]

Somewhat sadly Battlemaster Fighter, and I still think it’s the most interesting mundane to play.

Part of it is probably my fault as I was also playing a 3.5 game at the same time and had a Warblade in that game. But it’s like night and day between those two classes.

Now if I’m a player (which is increasingly rare, admittedly) I just don’t play 5e unless I can cast some spells.

[diplomancer]

I think I have got pretty good at identifying the classes that will not bring me joy now. Eldritch knight is certainly on that list.

Spells being the 'special thing' of the archetype but not being special, coupled with spending so few turns on most adventures actually casting spells is not going to thrill me.

I don't think it's a bad class, just a frustrating one.

I feel the same way; never played either, but I believe that both 1/3 casters are a bit frustrating. You think you'll be a Gish, but in the end not really, too few spells and too late to feel worthwhile. Arcane Trickster at least gets good damage (for a Rogue) through Find Familiar Advantage+ Booming Blade. But Rogues are my least favoured class in this edition (followed closely by Druids, though I never did like Druids anyhow, and enjoyed Thief in TSR D&D).

[nickl_2000]

I think I have got pretty good at identifying the classes that will not bring me joy now. Eldritch knight is certainly on that list.

Spells being the 'special thing' of the archetype but not being special, coupled with spending so few turns on most adventures actually casting spells is not going to thrill me.

I don't think it's a bad class, just a frustrating one.

If your expectations for the EK is that your spells will be damaging, you will definitely have a bad time. If have the expectations that an EK is a fighter that gets defensive spells and some magical utility you will do much better.

AK is the same way, the magic is utility and help rather than the core of the class. The core of the class is that you are a Rogue, sneaky, and a skill monkey. Oh and you also get magic to help you with that.

[Waazraath]

This is going to be personal to each player so please don’t be offended if your favorite class is listed here.

For me, battlesmith artificer isn’t as fun as I thought it would be. I was expecting a more wizard type play with steampunk style but being only a half caster with limited slots seemed limiting. Only at lvl 7 with this character but secretly hoping a good death is near for him.

I also thought that my Moon druid would have been fun. Played a Shepard druid to 15 and she was awesome. But after playing my moon druid to lvl 12, it was retirement time. Felt underpowered in later tier 2 and tier 3 and felt wildshape wasn’t as interesting as casting spells.

Conversely, didn’t have high hopes for a rune knight fighter I started at lvl 13, but really enjoying him now.

For me it was Shepard Druid. Found it so boring I even made a thread about it: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?623831-Summoner-druid-pretty-darn-boring

Loved all my other (sub)classes played.

As for what I've seen at the table with other players, the only really dissapointing one for another player was a pre-Tasha's ranged rogue assassin - in combat it was just move-shoot-move, feeling very not-contributive when missing.

[MrStabby]

If your expectations for the EK is that your spells will be damaging, you will definitely have a bad time. If have the expectations that an EK is a fighter that gets defensive spells and some magical utility you will do much better.

AK is the same way, the magic is utility and help rather than the core of the class. The core of the class is that you are a Rogue, sneaky, and a skill monkey. Oh and you also get magic to help you with that.

It's not that I expect my spells to be damaging, but rather that I expect to feel different to a different type of fighter on most turns. War magic tinkers at the edges a bit, but basically you just don't get enough spell slots. At level 10 how many turns per day will you actually cast a spell? And the spells you cast - they are hardly unique.

Compare this to other archetypes - (using strong ones as examples first) for example hexblade (what fraction of turns will you use charisma to make weapon attacks), shepherd druid (what fraction of turns will better summons make a difference on?) Or to middle tier archetypes like the shadowmonk (on what fraction of turns will you shadowstep or be invisible or cast silence or darkness) or a Paladin (what fraction of turns will you use your domain spells or channel divinity or level 7 ability?) And so on.

Eldritch knight is fine from a power perspective but the things it does are too rare and not unique enough for it to feel satisfying for me.

[Arkhios]

If your expectations for the EK is that your spells will be damaging, you will definitely have a bad time. If have the expectations that an EK is a fighter that gets defensive spells and some magical utility you will do much better.

AK is the same way, the magic is utility and help rather than the core of the class. The core of the class is that you are a Rogue, sneaky, and a skill monkey. Oh and you also get magic to help you with that.

It's not that I expect my spells to be damaging, but rather that I expect to feel different to a different type of fighter on most turns. War magic tinkers at the edges a bit, but basically you just don't get enough spell slots. At level 10 how many turns per day will you actually cast a spell? And the spells you cast - they are hardly unique.

Compare this to other archetypes - (using strong ones as examples first) for example hexblade (what fraction of turns will you use charisma to make weapon attacks), shepherd druid (what fraction of turns will better summons make a difference on?) Or to middle tier archetypes like the shadowmonk (on what fraction of turns will you shadowstep or be invisible or cast silence or darkness) or a Paladin (what fraction of turns will you use your domain spells or channel divinity or level 7 ability?) And so on.

Eldritch knight is fine from a power perspective but the things it does are too rare and not unique enough for it to feel satisfying for me.

In regards to EK spells being for utility, I did what pretty much all guides suggest, and took Absorb Elements and Shield as my major go-to spells, with Magic Missile as a back-up if I can't reach my target otherwise, and Find Familiar for flavor. I also had Booming Blade which is hands down the most boring cantrip in play, on contrary to what people make it sound like. IT'S NOT THAT GOOD, come on, be honest with yourselves! Especially at lower levels (prior to 5th level) - more often than I can count - it does absolutely nothing, and still you (in general sense) recommend taking it as an EK. Why?! You people who make all these guides, do you even have any actual play experience or do you think that theorycrafting 24/7 alone in a dark room qualifies for that?

Most of the time, my EK was just another fighter, "attacking the darkness" so to speak. Turn after turn my only options were to, can you believe it, Attack. With a weapon. *Gasp!*, and only occasionally when it would actually matter, I might cast - surprise, surprise - Shield. Woooo! I tried being "clever" with Booming Blade once or twice, but honestly, it's not worth it.

[Skrum]

Bard. I've always disliked bards. I didn't like them in 3rd, and I don't like them in 5th. I tend not to even like the players who think bards are great (the class seems to attract fundamentally unserious players).

But I made a bard anyway. A luck-themed halfling named Daisy. And she was fun to play - when it was RP time. But as soon as initiative got rolled, THBBB. My brain shut off. Bards have a bad spell list, mediocre features, and virtually nothing to do in combat. Throwing out the random inspiration or reaction spell? Yah not cutting it.

[bkwrm79]

In regards to EK spells being for utility, I did what pretty much all guides suggest, and took Absorb Elements and Shield as my major go-to spells, with Magic Missile as a back-up if I can't reach my target otherwise, and Find Familiar for flavor. I also had Booming Blade which is hands down the most boring cantrip in play, on contrary to what people make it sound like. IT'S NOT THAT GOOD, come on, be honest with yourselves! Especially at lower levels (prior to 5th level) - more often than I can count - it does absolutely nothing, and still you (in general sense) recommend taking it as an EK. Why?! You people who make all these guides, do you even have any actual play experience or do you think that theorycrafting 24/7 alone in a dark room qualifies for that?

Most of the time, my EK was just another fighter, "attacking the darkness" so to speak. Turn after turn my only options were to, can you believe it, Attack. With a weapon. *Gasp!*, and only occasionally when it would actually matter, I might cast - surprise, surprise - Shield. Woooo! I tried being "clever" with Booming Blade once or twice, but honestly, it's not worth it.

My archer EK uses Shield all the time (has Absorb Elements but I can't remember using it), Misty Step, at high levels Fly. I didn't take either Booming Blade or the other one.

But yeah, an EK is mostly a Fighter, a little bit a Wizard.

One unique thing I can do - cast Light on an arrow and shoot it near the enemy in the same turn, so the whole party can see the enemies and make ranged attacks without disadvantage.

Really no classes I've played and didn't enjoy so far, but having spent a lot of time on part-casters, definitely want to play a full caster in the future.

[Pooky the Imp]

Shadow Sorcerer - I found the lack of spell slots to be completely crippling to anything I wanted to do. Even a few weak-but-flavourful spells would cripple my combat ability.

Also, the shadow wolf summon was kinda neat, but also really sorcery point intensive. And since it never has magic attacks, it just ends up feeling like a more gimmicky Heightened Spell. Maybe that's the intent but it's still kinda disappointing. Would have been more fun if the shadow wolf had been treated more like a familiar (like the spirit Wildfire Druids can summon), that grows in power as you level up. As opposed to a throwaway summon.

Anyway, I liked some of the themes but I just never found it particularly fun in practise.


Land Druid - You cast a spell. Then you go make yourself a sandwich because 99% of your spells are concentration, so all you can do afterwards is piddle around with some Cantrips.

zzzzZZZZZZ


Moon Druid - This class never really played how I wanted it to. If I played it primarily as a caster, I immediately ran into the exact same problem as above. However, if I leaned more towards the shapeshifting angle, then I'd spend an awful lot of time feeling like I wasn't actually contributing much to the battle because (barring certain levels) the forms felt consistently underpowered.

More than that, though, I wanted to be able to maintain a consistent theme but that proved entirely impossible. e.g. a Dire Wolf or Bear would be strong at Lv2, but by Lv8 they'd be significantly underpowered and there would be no greater wolf or bear shape to replace them. So if I started off with a wolf theme, I'd have to switch to a dinosaur theme after a few levels in order to still be relevant. And then at Lv10 my character pulls an elemental theme out of their arse and uses that from then on.

Put simply, I like the idea of a shapeshifting-focussed class but I hate how that theme is executed in the Moon Druid.

[nickl_2000]

Land Druid - You cast a spell. Then you go make yourself a sandwich because 99% of your spells are concentration, so all you can do afterwards is piddle around with some Cantrips.

zzzzZZZZZZ




This is actually a problem I've seen with druids in general. They have some great spells, but really focus on concentration. I found that I would always have lots of spells left over every day when playing one. I had to seek out other uses of spells, like plant growth, longstrider, and the few damaging spells to use them all up. Once I started doing that I enjoyed mine more.

[rlc]

I played a shadow monk in my first ever 5e game in a play by post on this forum, and it completely relied on lighting if I wanted to even have a subclass at all.

[Spo]

I played a shadow monk in my first ever 5e game in a play by post on this forum, and it completely relied on lighting if I wanted to even have a subclass at all.

One of my favorite characters was a shadow monk, but I was lucky because I played her in the dungeon of the mad mage so I had access to her features 99% of the time.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

This is actually a problem I've seen with druids in general. They have some great spells, but really focus on concentration. I found that I would always have lots of spells left over every day when playing one. I had to seek out other uses of spells, like plant growth, longstrider, and the few damaging spells to use them all up. Once I started doing that I enjoyed mine more.

I haven't played one, but I've DMed a few and that's definitely been my observation of their spell list. Probably the most extreme example was the Shepherd, which though it was the strongest character I've ever had to deal with, didn't do a lot during combat. The player wisely took Warcaster and Res Con, conjured his minions, then generally avoided taking damage. I suppose if you liked playing with your minions it was great; if not, meh.

[KorvinStarmast]

For me it's the warlock. It just doesn't have enough interesting features. I thought invocations would fix that, but you just don't get enough of them. There should be a few more, yes.

I found Bard to be the most dull. Sure I could do a lot but it seemed to be all about doing things for other people That is why I enjoyed my bard so much: she was a great support PC, and our party played mostly as a team, if by teamwork we mean 'two martials charge in regardless of the situation and I try to keep them from getting killed.' :smallbiggrin: It worked, though.

On the flip side: I ran a Fey Pact of Chain Warlock and had an amazing time. I was more of a stealthy / info gathering type and it was quite fun. One of the best, out of the box set ups in the game IMO. Sadly for me our campaign with that party died due to RL stuff.

The only subclass I'll never play again is a shepherd druid. It's way too powerful in tier 2. A friend of mine got tired of his Shepherd and I let him switch to stars at around level 8/9. He's enjoying that a bit more.

Bard. I've always disliked bards. I didn't like them in 3rd, and I don't like them in 5th. I tend not to even like the players who think bards are great (the class seems to attract fundamentally unserious players). Well you didn't put much effort in it, I suspect. My bard was great 1-20, played her as a support, and got to do plenty of RP and performance as needed. Conjure animals was an early magical secret that allowed me quite a bit of flexibility. Polymorph our halfling into a giant gorilla? Yes. A few times. She did not play the old "I am a bard and I seduce X" nonsense, but she did eventually fall in love with a golden dragon; as the campaign ended she's pregnant with his child. She also did some of that down time carousing and made a lot of friends, which in the end (for the campaign) got us in the good graces of a queen.
But I made a bard anyway. A luck-themed halfling named Daisy. And she was fun to play - when it was RP time. But as soon as initiative got rolled, THBBB. My brain shut off. Bards have a bad spell list, mediocre features, and virtually nothing to do in combat. Sorry, plenty to do in combat. Was able to interrupt hits (Cutting words), shatter isn't bad early on, Dissonant Whispers is good up until about level 7 or 8, command is good, I could cast slow on enemies, or blind them (blindness / deafness), got Wall of Force and Bigby's Hand with magical secrets, Used Hold Monster a few times to take a big enemy out of a fight for a few rounds, counterspelled quite a bit, Prismatic Spray now and again, Hypnotic Pattern a lot to shut enemies down. I had lots of options and used them all, and I spent a lot of time tinkering with the spell list to try and be as useful/flexible as possible. In the end game I had Foresight, which when cast on a martial ally is insanely good for 8 hours. (Yes, Wish is also fun, but I didn't lean into that very hard).

On the other hand, as far as cantrips go, Cutting Words is lackluster. Will not disagree. But sometimes, that next attack having disadvantage makes a difference.

[Pooky the Imp]

On the other hand, as far as cantrips go, Cutting Words is lackluster. Will not disagree. But sometimes, that next attack having disadvantage makes a difference.

Do you mean Vicious Mockery?

If so, I certainly don't disagree. Upping the damage to d6 might have helped a little.

Honestly, though, what I hate more is the flavour. Bards are pretty broad and I'd really prefer it if their main damaging Cantrip wasn't stuck on them mocking their opponents. :smallyuk:

I wish it allowed for more variance, like dark whispers or other such.


Incidentally, the fact that Bards didn't get the Mind Sliver Cantrip is also very disappointing, as it feels perfectly on-theme. Seems like something that was only done because it was better than Vicious Mockery and they didn't want to bother improving the latter.

[animorte]

A friend of mine got tired of his Shepherd and I let him switch to stars at around level 8/9. He's enjoying that a bit more.


Brilliant decision. My favorite Druid subclass and next is level 10, getting to switch between all the forms!

[Psyren]

Bard. I've always disliked bards. I didn't like them in 3rd, and I don't like them in 5th. I tend not to even like the players who think bards are great (the class seems to attract fundamentally unserious players).

But I made a bard anyway. A luck-themed halfling named Daisy. And she was fun to play - when it was RP time. But as soon as initiative got rolled, THBBB. My brain shut off. Bards have a bad spell list, mediocre features, and virtually nothing to do in combat. Throwing out the random inspiration or reaction spell? Yah not cutting it.

Creation, Valor, Lore, Swords. Making a combat-oriented bard who's still great at the out-of-combat stuff is easy.



Land Druid - You cast a spell. Then you go make yourself a sandwich because 99% of your spells are concentration, so all you can do afterwards is piddle around with some Cantrips.

zzzzZZZZZZ

Land has by far the most varied spell list, especially if you pick an environment that compliments the druid list. You can easily get non-cantrip spells you can cast while concentrating, and thanks to Tasha's weaponizing your bonus action is easier than ever.

[RogueJK]

Land has by far the most varied spell list, especially if you pick an environment that compliments the druid list. You can easily get non-cantrip spells you can cast while concentrating, and thanks to Tasha's weaponizing your bonus action is easier than ever.

What did Tasha's add that allows a Land Druid to weaponize their Bonus Action?

Looks like they got access to some new spells, but none of them are Bonus Actions. They got the ability to spend Wild Shapes for a temporary Familiar, but that doesn't involve Bonus Actions and your Familiar can't attack anyway. And they got the ability to swap out a cantrip for a different cantrip every 4 levels.

[Psyren]

What did Tasha's add that allows a Land Druid to weaponize their Bonus Action?

Telekinetic feat. Doesn't interfere with their concentration or any of their subclass features the way it would for, say, a Stars Druid, and it synergizes well with a Land Druid's relatively greater access to battlefield control.

[RogueJK]

Ah. Yeah, Telekinetic is a great half-feat for many casters, and is extra nice for a Land Druid. (I was thinking it was something Druid-specific that I was overlooking.)

[Pooky the Imp]

Land has by far the most varied spell list, especially if you pick an environment that compliments the druid list. You can easily get non-cantrip spells you can cast while concentrating

Eh, between 8 spell lists, you've got maybe 3 non-concentration spells that can reliably be used in combat.

And even this is assuming you choose your list for power and not flavour/background purposes.



and thanks to Tasha's weaponizing your bonus action is easier than ever.

The Land Druid I played was years before Tasha's. :smalltongue:

Maybe it's better now but honestly I can't say I'm eager to take the chance.

[Skrum]

Creation, Valor, Lore, Swords. Making a combat-oriented bard who's still great at the out-of-combat stuff is easy.



She is a lore bard xD. Valor or Swords could be fun, particularly if combined with paladin, but the other bards just aren't active enough for my tastes. Concentrating on my spell being the majority of my combat experience is not fun.

[Psyren]

Eh, between 8 spell lists, you've got maybe 3 non-concentration spells that can reliably be used in combat.

And even this is assuming you choose your list for power and not flavour/background purposes.

Are... are we reading the same subclass? Like literally the only bad one for combat is Desert :smallconfused:


She is a lore bard xD. Valor or Swords could be fun, particularly if combined with paladin, but the other bards just aren't active enough for my tastes. Concentrating on my spell being the majority of my combat experience is not fun.

Creation is amazing in combat, especially combined with some control effects. Moreover, it gives you several easy ways to deal with the kind of enemies that Bards usually have trouble with. Even putting the pet aside, you can do things like block chokepoints with large objects, or form a cage around someone troublesome.

[Skrum]

Creation is amazing in combat, especially combined with some control effects. Moreover, it gives you several easy ways to deal with the kind of enemies that Bards usually have trouble with. Even putting the pet aside, you can do things like block chokepoints with large objects, or form a cage around someone troublesome.

I'm not saying bards are wholly incompetent (though I do think they're overrated), it's mostly about me liking to make rolls/take actions every turn. When playing my bard, I did a lot of blocking chokepoints with spells and whatever. But that's really boring. I cast a spell, then I just move around and hope I don't lose concentration. Effective for my allies, but boring for me.

[elyktsorb]

Assassin Rogue
Assassin Rogue
Assassin Rogue

[Psyren]

I'm not saying bards are wholly incompetent (though I do think they're overrated), it's mostly about me liking to make rolls/take actions every turn. When playing my bard, I did a lot of blocking chokepoints with spells and whatever. But that's really boring. I cast a spell, then I just move around and hope I don't lose concentration. Effective for my allies, but boring for me.

If you want to be the one dishing out the damage (and don't like swords) then yeah, Bard isn't for you... but most people know that going in, it's not exactly a curveball. Of course Bards are a support/control class.

[animorte]

I've rarely been disappointed as I often lean heavily into a theme and get creative. I'm there to have fun.

But I'd like to provide an example of the opposite. I've never cared for Int-based classes (looking at you Wizard, yes specifically). Even looking at the Artificer had me somewhat unwilling to go near it, but then I started comparing the infusion to my favorite class, the Warlock's invocations. I finally recently gave it a try after years of avoiding it. Actually quite satisfying.

[riot]

For me, battlesmith artificer isn’t as fun as I thought it would be. I was expecting a more wizard type play with steampunk style but being only a half caster with limited slots seemed limiting. Only at lvl 7 with this character but secretly hoping a good death is near for him.


Quite ironically I really didn't enjoy playing an Alchemist and my DM let me swap over to a Battlesmith and immediately loved it. Alchemist just felt weak and I really hated how the experimental elixir was random and I had to expend my (limited!) spell slots in order to actually be able to choose. Battlesmith was way more fun for me, being able to flavor my Steel Defender and feel more like I was actually contributing.

[Rilmani]

Shadow Monk. I was a new player at the time who did not know the ins and outs of DnD, but I did happen to know that splitting the party (going off alone to sneak) is a bad idea. Shadow monk can spend Ki to cast Darkness, Silence or Pass without Trace. Buuut.

It isn’t really intuitive as to when those are a good answer to a given situation. Low level parties aren’t optimized enough to utilize magical Darkness without penalty during combat. Silence has such a tiny area, that I think that Silent Image spell would have been more useful.

It is just… it feels like the shadow monk’s abilities will only get to shine once per story arc, maximum. The tiny Ki pool doesn’t help. Is this how utility-focused spellcasters feel?

[Chronos]

For me, it was a warlock. Partly, that was because the character's personality didn't work out like I intended, and so he mostly ended up annoying the rest of the party. But partly, it's because I wanted to play a support-type character, and the warlock spell list just doesn't fit that.

[Spo]

Assassin Rogue
Assassin Rogue
Assassin Rogue

Had to laugh at this response. Been playing a lot of pickup games at my game store and EVERY party has at least 1 assassin rogue (often with gloomstalker multiclass) in the party. Was in one game where my sorcerer was the frontliner/puzzle solver/trap springer because all the rogues would not enter rooms or stayed in corners waiting to shoot something.

[animorte]

Was in one game where my sorcerer was the frontliner/puzzle solver/trap springer

I would likely legitimately have an absolute blast playing that Sorcerer.

[TaiLiu]

Champion Fighter. I was hoping to at least get one Natural 19 but it just never came up in the one-shot that I played. I like the simplicity... I just wish it were more consistent.


Assassin Rogue
Assassin Rogue
Assassin Rogue

Had to laugh at this response. Been playing a lot of pickup games at my game store and EVERY party has at least 1 assassin rogue (often with gloomstalker multiclass) in the party. Was in one game where my sorcerer was the frontliner/puzzle solver/trap springer because all the rogues would not enter rooms or stayed in corners waiting to shoot something.
Yeah, I guess they're popular with new players. Unfortunately the 3rd level subclass feature rarely comes into play, but I guess newer players don't often realize it.