Need to Pick Some Brains for a Situation my Group got Themselves In

[SpikeFightwicky]

Howdy folks,
So long story short, the party has to last until sunrise, which is about an hour and a half away. They're in an old abandoned but still consecrated church built around a fortified (yet desecrated) tower of older and sturdier design. They're dealing with a vampire and their minions and they know a "head honcho" is on their way soon.

They have Dwarven explosive devices they do with as they please. They're almost out of spells and would like a long rest (which will get interrupted). They want to try for a short rest first but barricaded themselves in the tower and will soon find out that Tiny Hut doesn't function properly in there. Their plan is to hunker in the tower basement next to a barricaded door they heard deceivingly pleading voices come from. There is no other way out and a few ways into the tower that enemies can exploit.

One party member suggested luring the enemies into the church and detonating the explosives while staying sheltered in the tower, but was shot down. There's no other plan other than "rest until morning".

I'm not sure how to encourage the players to try something else, other than make things hopeless and hope they open the basement door (which i will have to figure out what happens since I don't want a TPK).

Any suggestions from the forum to help me out with alternatives?

[icedraikon]

Well Rope Trick would buy them 1 hour, so hold out for 30m and wait until the vamps get close, hop into a Rope Trick in a hard to reach place and hide.
Leomund's is another option but apparently will not work.

Could also try to block off every way into the basement except for 1 and put the martials in the doorway to make it a 1 enemy at a time thing which would discourage the vampires from actually going at them head-on. Double points for held actions for anyone who shows their face to get blasted.

If ^ was coupled with explosives in the church, could work.
Could try to stack up a bunch of dirt with Mold Earth in front of all the doorways to buy some time.

They could set up the explosives in the church and try to talk to the vamps. "If you attack us, we'll blow the church and tower and bury us all." Probably not ideal since they would have the mist thing.

But with no spells, best option imo is to try to block everything off except for one staircase to the basement and hunker down with held actions. Once the vampires are close, blow the church on top of them, hopefully leaving the tower intact or if not, hopefully there are cracks to breath and the basement is structurally sound enough to hold.

[SpikeFightwicky]

Yeah, they know that the tower would likely hold if they detonated the explosives in the church. Also that the church would likely come down as a result.

The tower layout could work, except the middle is open, so enemy AOEs can get the entire group. They have a group of nobles that got caught up in everything, but I don't want them to suggest solutions. I had the dwarf (who was delivering the explosives) suggest bringing down the church on everyone to avoid capture (which prompted the one PC to suggest luring them into the church and using the tower as a bunker to shield from the blast).

They might unbarricade the door to try an alternate escape if things go south, which I can use, though I have to figure out what's down there 🤔

[MrStabby]

They are in a church. Try praying.

Not being facetious here.

Who is the god of the church? What are their values? What kind of acts and offerings would they appreciate? What is their stance on vampires? What vow might help to secure their support? What rituals might be needed to invoke it?

Will someone step up and ask for help? I am not talking about a Deus Ex Machena here that just solves everything, but an earned quest with consequences and needing some serious religion checks to pull off. A potential RP/Character development opportunity if someone wants to go down that path and at worst you can give any divine aid at just the right level to make a fun fight.

[SpikeFightwicky]

That's an interesting option as well! I may be able to prod them to attempt something like that. It also coincides with a later event that might happen under similar-ish circumstances. This could end up being an introduction to that concept. The trick is doing the proper prodding. But I'm getting some ideas here from the replies! Keep 'em coming!

[Unoriginal]

Howdy folks,
So long story short, the party has to last until sunrise, which is about an hour and a half away. They're in an old abandoned but still consecrated church built around a fortified (yet desecrated) tower of older and sturdier design. They're dealing with a vampire and their minions and they know a "head honcho" is on their way soon.

They have Dwarven explosive devices they do with as they please. They're almost out of spells and would like a long rest (which will get interrupted). They want to try for a short rest first but barricaded themselves in the tower and will soon find out that Tiny Hut doesn't function properly in there. Their plan is to hunker in the tower basement next to a barricaded door they heard deceivingly pleading voices come from. There is no other way out and a few ways into the tower that enemies can exploit.

One party member suggested luring the enemies into the church and detonating the explosives while staying sheltered in the tower, but was shot down. There's no other plan other than "rest until morning".

I'm not sure how to encourage the players to try something else, other than make things hopeless and hope they open the basement door (which i will have to figure out what happens since I don't want a TPK).

Any suggestions from the forum to help me out with alternatives?

I have two questions (well first one is in two parts), which may or may not influence the ideas I had:

1)Who desecrated the tower and is it why Leomund's Tiny Hut does not work here?

2)Who is the "head honcho" who will show up soon?

[DomesticHausCat]

I've been in a situation like this before, where the players did imo things that were rather stupid. But I should have made that more clear to them.

Back then I figured most of them would hate a tpk, so I added in some extra help for them in the fight to come.

It was a Cult they were investigating. So I made a group of the Cultists to be part of a rebellion faction that turned on the cult and fought with the party. There was also a part of the cult that were just trying to run away and some of them were trying to rob the place while doing so. (Which in turn was a loss for the party, if they played more smart they could have gotten all that loot.)

I'd recommend you talk to your players openly about what's coming. And see if you can come up with a solution with them such as a deus ex machina like what i did. Unless most or all of them are ok with a tpk happening. Also, you can ask them what to do if a tpk happens. Maybe they'll all wake up in the underworld or something. Or you can have them be captured by the vampire and they can still concoct an escape plan.

[Veldrenor]

When Leomund’s Tiny Hut fails, pick the characters with the highest intelligence and the highest Insight. Look their players dead in the eyes and tell them “you realize with growing horror that your plan for a short rest, as it stands, will not work.” They don’t have Tiny Hut’s impenetrable barrier. The head honcho is coming. The head honcho of a vampire+minions is, presumably, also a vampire. The vampires have 1.5 hours to either secure the tower and take cover there or retreat, because if they don’t they’ll get ashed at sunrise. The leader of a bunch of vampires is not going to risk dying, so wherever the head honcho is coming from has to be close enough that they can get back there before sunrise if they fail to take the tower. Travel + attack on party + travel < 1.5 hours. The party has maybe 40 minutes at best until something worse than what they’re currently fighting shows up.

They have thought of exactly two plans: rest until morning and blow up the church.


They know that the first won’t work unless they figure out a way to fix Tiny Hut (and hope that the vampires don’t have Dispel Magic).
They’ve dismissed the second plan.

So what other plans have they thought of? You could use the NPCs to suggest ideas but you don’t need to. It’s actually fairly common for players to come up with one or two ideas and then stop thinking. But when those ideas fail, asking them “what else have you thought of” can get them to realize that they haven’t thought of anything else and they start thinking again. Or at the least they look at their current failed plans and start thinking of ways to overcome the obstacles that are causing them to fail.

[Sigreid]

Not meaning to sound to harsh, but coming up with an idea is their job. Being open to whatever they come up with and giving a fair chance for a positive outcome is yours. The one exception would be if you made a mistake and forced them into a no win situatuon.

[MrStabby]

Not meaning to sound to harsh, but coming up with an idea is their job. Being open to whatever they come up with and giving a fair chance for a positive outcome is yours. The one exception would be if you made a mistake and forced them into a no win situatuon.

I think you are right in this, but I also think there is merit in hashing out solutions.

If you know what you will allow or disalow in advance it helps. If working through different scenarios allows you to eyeball encounters and work out how much help to give the party then it can be a big advantage. If it lets you flesh out descriptionsbecause it gives you a clue as to what potential features might be important it can help.

Also, I think its a great general topic - what kind of levers to players have to get them out of hopelss looking situations? What makes for a rich enough environment that players can secure an advantage through interacting with the world around them?

[Sigreid]

I think you are right in this, but I also think there is merit in hashing out solutions.

If you know what you will allow or disalow in advance it helps. If working through different scenarios allows you to eyeball encounters and work out how much help to give the party then it can be a big advantage. If it lets you flesh out descriptionsbecause it gives you a clue as to what potential features might be important it can help.

Also, I think its a great general topic - what kind of levers to players have to get them out of hopelss looking situations? What makes for a rich enough environment that players can secure an advantage through interacting with the world around them?

I get what you're saying, but I've had too many situations where my players came up with something brilliant that never would have occurred to me and I just had to reward their genius.

[BoutsofInsanity]

If I was a player...

I would explode the church after luring them in.

Using the chaos and opportunity to hit the woods and run away using stealth and pass without trace hopefully.

If I'm a combat heavy party I would instead attempt to blow the church and use that opportunity while the morale checks disorient the enemy to come in and shatter them upon my steel.

I might investigate the voices if none of those options work.

[Zetakya]

The Party is in a Church, and if you're playing against Vampires you must be at least level 10. This situation is tailor-made for Divine Intervention.

[Molchmeister]

Go to old vampire lore, they can't tread on holy ground and can't enter a residence without an invitation. Pummel them with wave after wave of summoned creatures (wolves, bats, and rats) until right before morning. When the sun rises they can make a run for it and get back to town, or at least get the NPC's out and make additional plans with a long rest, during the day. Of course if they stay put the master vampire could rest in the tower as the sun rises it's desecrated and allows access.

[SpikeFightwicky]

I have two questions (well first one is in two parts), which may or may not influence the ideas I had:

1)Who desecrated the tower and is it why Leomund's Tiny Hut does not work here?

2)Who is the "head honcho" who will show up soon?

Sorry for the late reply, currently on vacation and going hough the forum thread:
1) Desecration happened centuries ago, prior to the vampires, which is also linked to what's locked in the basement (technically something for a later sejour, but I'm fine winging it if they go in in desparation). This part of the world is somewhat Ravenloft-ish.
2) Head honcho is the vamoire viscountess of their current area who has just been woken up (travel time from her castle means she will arrive about a half hour after their short rest). She hasn't had blood in a while (long story, can't feed on her subjects) so is craving fresh sustenance (she was in a long sleep). She technically owns her portion of land, so she can enter the church, though she will be somewhat debilitated.

[Slipjig]

Have you already told them that Tiny Hut won't work? Because if you haven't, there's no reason not to let that work if your PCs have painted themselves into a corner. You could also change whatever you were planning to have behind the door to something moderately helpful instead of a TPK. You could also have the Big Bad want to negotiate when he gets there (maybe there is something valuable in the church that he doesn't want damaged, or one of the NPCs is a family member he isn't willing to risk hurting). Basically, anything that hasn't been definitively revealed can still be changed if it improves the story.

Did you have a particular solution in mind? If it's still available and the PCs just haven't thought of it, maybe have a brainstorming session where one of the NPCs gives them a broad hint (e.g. "If only we had the ability to...").

[Sigreid]

If she can feed without killing them they could offer some meals without a fight.

[SpikeFightwicky]

Ok, back from vacay.

I've read through the thread and got a few ideas! One of the issues is that there isn't a single divine character in the group. I intend on having some of the NPCs discussing ideas (bringing down the church on everyone so that they can take a few with them and not be captured - which might spark a few PC ideas) and also add something to a hidden cache they still haven't found that would allow them to ritually do a kind of divine intervention. Since none of them worship the god of that church (let alone any god...) they'll have an extra payment to be exacted at a future time if they use it, which will amp up the consecration in the church for a short time (debilitating the enemies within). That gives them a window to do some damage and hopefully figure out some new options - maybe some I haven't thought of yet). It also hints at the ability to trap the enemies in the church and keep them from fleeing if they still wish to blow the church up (the NPCs will comment that the evil tower would withstand the blast, which isn't good since they'd be captured by whoever survives). I had planned on having some custom rituals that would have different effects based on where they were cast, and this one fits perfectly into that category, and gives them options down the line if they find themselves in trouble in another place of worship, and it lets me control any "cooldown" or cost of doing it so that it's not so great they do it all the time. Also included in the cache will be a concoction (which I previously introduced as very rare potential potions) which gives a bit of spell slot restoration. I'll behind the scenes start the attack a few rounds into the ritual casting and have the Viscountess be more concerned with dining on the NPCs than directly attacking (unaware of the ritual being cast - passing it off as desperate prayers). It "should" have the last fight be difficult but manageable, or very easy if they plan it cleverly.

Fingers crossed, as the game's going on tonight.