Please do not alter the avatar images!

[The Giant]

The Voice of Mod: OK, here's the thing:

I've posted it several places, but it still seems to be happening every day. Please do not alter, manipulate, recolor, or otherwise change the avatar images and reuse them, either on this board or any other. If you post such an avatar, I will ask you to remove it. The avatars are images that are copyrighted, and allowing them to be altered will only encourage others to do the same away from this board.

It's a pretty simple request, one that I have made on numerous different threads at various times. I'm asking everyone to please respect my wishes in this. Thanks.

[Orion]

Okay - I understand where you're coming from - but I'm actually just trying to advertise the comic... :) And get some more traffic to the site.

As for my current tag... All I did was crop, and add preset animations from Animation Studio. I'm sorry if this upset you. :)

[The Giant]

The post above was not intended as a personal jab at those who have done this, but I've been seeing new ones every single day. It's got to stop.

[JD]

I can't imagine it doing it, without your expressed permission, would make me feel terrible. Although I do like the kobold, and the gnome wizard.

[Orion]

It pained me doing this, since I pride in my PSP skills, but I made this for an example of what NOT to do ;)

Here it is - basically a cross between that monk, and the knight... *shudder*

Remember - DON'T DO THIS AT HOME!... OR AT ALL! <grin>

The Voice of Mod: What part of "Don't do this," failed to register? :P

I know this is what you said NOT to do, Giant, but I figured that I'd post an example of it :-/ You can remove it if you wish :)

The Voice of Mod: Yeah.

[The Giant]

The Voice of Mod: Hmmm, no, no, I think it was fairly self-evident what not to do. I don't think an example was needed.

[Orion]

Bah, I try to help, and all I get is " :P " ;)

[squidi]

Believe me, I understand. I just wanted to point out that I've gotten in DEEP, DEEP doo-doo for expressing this exact wish. Just thought I'd warn you that not everybody understands and to tread carefully as your comic becomes more popular.

[Bogotter]

Welcome to the boards, Squidi.

But can you elaborate on exactly what you are talking about? What happened?

[Xander77]

Ehhhhh... long story short (that is, rambling, and pointless)

Guy on the Penny Arcade forums (same guy that makes Spells and Whistles on buzzcomix) edited squidi's images, and used one of them as an avatar... as did several other guys in the same forums.

Squidi demanded they cease-and-desist, was ridiculed, and banned from the forums.

Squidi wrote one of the guys who run Penny Arcade, who told him to piss of. Squidi didn't, threatened to take "legal action" and some of his forum members started flaming people at the PA forums... so the whole thing (from the PA guy's PoV, mostly) became infamous in the web-comic community, Squidi's e-mail and forums were flooded PA people complaining... Squidi's site went down for a while because of too much traffic.

Squidi and the original PA forums guy with the hard to spell name are cool now. Squidi and the makers of PA, PvP (who recently went through more or less the same thing - ironic, considering how he ridiculed Squidi), and several other web-comic makers are not.

Good summary?

[Michael]

Pretty much, yeah. Tubesteak Samurai (the one who altered the images) found them on a webpage that gave template images for sprites and built them up from those images, which apparently were Squidi's.

Penny-Arcade said they didn't see the similiarity as the images looked different (I never saw them), except, they joked, for maybe the legs.

Anyway, after the incident I have no idea what went on in the forums, but I never saw anything mentioning Squidi again in the news posts. Although, it is pretty fun to go read through some of Squidi's things (like his commentaries) and see all the shots he takes at Penny-Arcade. It's pretty obvious that there was bad blood before the incident ( I assume those were written before this all happened, if I'm wrong then change "before" to "after").

I don't really think many non-web comic creators care about it anymore, but I could be wrong. I like Penny-Arcade and Squidi both, they're both pretty funny though different types of humor, art, goals, etc.

About Giant having to tread carefully, I don't really think he does. Squidi, you deal with pixel art, which as I'm sure you've encountered are pretty looked down upon. Beyond that, I haven't seen Giant really complain or take shots at anyone else. The only time I've really seen it is with a few of the people who go to ENWorld, but even then he was pretty good about saying the people who run it aren't the problem at all. So if there's a problem of someone stealing his images, he wont be coming to table with chips on his shoulder and chips on the other person's shoulder.

[The Giant]

Yeah, Squidi, the situation with you is exactly why I decided to post a pre-emptive warning. I figured from now on, I can always point back to it in event of trouble. I can't scour the web looking for people using my images, but at least I can keep control here. :)

[squidi]

Good summary?

Besides getting many of the facts wrong, no - not really. :)

It is a long story and most people don't know much more than what they've heard from people who heard from people who heard from people. It's like a giant game of telephone where I become more obsessive and evil with each iteration.

But the short of it was, somebody modified my work, took complete credit for it, and was distributing it to others as his own. That they were avatars has little to do with it. I asked him to stop - and he did, only the others he gave works to didn't. Then I told them to stop - and they got rowdy. Then I started emailing ISPs and administrators. And then things got bad and my reputation has never recovered.

The moral of the story is that it doesn't matter what the truth is, the rumors can destroy you in a heartbeat. That's why I say tread carefully. It's not what you do but what people hear that you've done, and the two aren't always connected.

Protect your work, by golly. Protect it with pens and swords if you have to. Especially when you are just starting to become somewhat famous - before people look at the work and think "Ooh, that looks like Order of the Stick" and instead think "Ooh, that guy made a great avatar, he should make me one too".

Just tread carefully. Don't ever contact the thieves directly - go straight to the ISPs and administrators before things get out of hand. Handle it as quietly and quickly as possible (which is not always that quiet or quick). Avoid certain words like "copyrights" because people will instantly think you are going to sue them.

[WouldILie]

also, the whole thing really pointed out an appalling lack of awareness of how copywright law works amongst netizens... before, I'd thought that most people didn't care, but the majority of offenders in this case responded either that there was some heretofor unknown fair use proviso that put them in the clear or that copywright didn't cover Squidi's work.

ignorance is the enemy?

*vainly tries to approach being on topic, but veers off into the depths*

[squidi]

Actually, it is "copyright" not "copywright" - as in the rights given to another individual to copy your work.

While I think protecting your copyrights is one of the most important (if not the most difficult) thing you can do, Giant probably doesn't have to worry about avatars. I had people taking my work and making crappy sprite comics out of them. Given that his avatars are all facing forward, no one could make a comic out of it :)

Still, if you want to keep it, protect it.

[Bogotter]

We did have a guy here a few months back make entire comics just based on the avatars. They all faced forward and they were really bad. But apparently, as Rawbear puts it, I scared him away.

;)

[WouldILie]

Well, I'd imagine that leering, bipedal swamp otters can be rather intimidating... rather more frightening, in a way, if you use the british connotation to the word "bog"...

of course, I'm also frightened by bad webcomics, at times.

[penguinscanfly81]

Hey Giant, would it be okay if i made one of the OOtS characters into a buddy icon for AIM? If you wont allow me to do it, could you create them yourself?

[The Giant]

If someone can give me the exact specs (size, dpi, format), I'll try to get to it, but no guarantees on when.

[Veera]

AIM buddy icons are 48X48 pixels, 72 dpi, and it should be in GIF or JPG. Although I love my AIM icon too much to change it... 8)

[Michael]

Please do not alter, manipulate, recolor, or otherwise change the avatar images and reuse them, either on this board or any other.

Since avatar images cannot be changed, could you either include your web address in these avatars, or make a special batch of avatars for off-site forums which includes "www.giantitp.com" somewhere on it?

I figure that if you're going to allow people to use them on off-site (I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was okay - but I could be wrong) then you might as well get some free advertisement.

[The Giant]

Not a bad idea, I'll see if I can get to it. :)

[Orion]

I've gotten permission from The Giant to use the avatars over at my forum, and to bypass the antialias on white dealie - I put them on a background image, since my forums have a black/dark background -

http://katrina.legendsofglory.com/forum/images/avatars/gallery/Order%20of%20the%20Stick/BarbarianGuy.gif

[ASCIISkull]

Would you mind my making an avatar(from scratch) in a similar style to yours, just for this forum? I like my avatar, but he doesn't fit so well here...

[enigmaticLoser]

while everyon'es putting up their requests...

would it be alright for me to print out some avatars and use them as markers on our little map-grid-thingy? my DM tends to throw masses of kobolds at us, and your kobold is just cool. ;)

[The Giant]

That, you can do. Point of fact, the stick figures BEGAN life as my cheap ass miniatures substitutes, and then became a comic. Someday, I'll put together a set for people to use in that way, too.

[Loethlin]

Hi there.
Sorry, sorry sorry....
I have "an overwhelming question". I know it's bad to ask and it's really useless since the answer will be "no" but I have to ask, since it'll ease my mind.
Could you possibly allow me to use one of the avatars from here on other forum? I don't want to change it or do anything with it. Just use it somewhere else.
I'm sorry, it's stupid and rude question, but I just love the avatar so much...

[The Giant]

I would prefer you didn't.

Oh, and welcome to the boards. :)

[Loethlin]

Thanks. I understand. I also hate it when people use my works without permission. :)
And thanks for the welcome. :D

[Zherog]

I'm sorry, it's stupid and rude question, but I just love the avatar so much...

I'd say your question was actually rather polite - you asked the artist for permission to use his work elsewhere. I think the fact you went to the trouble to ask is pretty 8) .

[TheArcaneTrickster]

It's real harsh when people post ideas that are someone else's without permission as their own. I almost had this happen to me once, I ran an adventure online based on the aftermath of a novel I am in the process of writing, and this guy made a REALLY poor short story based upon the opening of my adventure, with the same title as my adventure. Needless to say, a friend of mine banned his IP adress from the site, and I decided to copywrite my book and story when it's all done.

[JD]

While we're asking for stuff, here's a little question: Could you make a Loki avatar I could use on my forum? I've been looking over the net for hours after a decent picture of a God.

[Bogotter]

While we're asking for stuff, here's a little question: Could you make a Loki avatar I could use on my forum? I've been looking over the net for hours after a decent picture of a God.


Suggestions for avatar images don't belong in this thread. They belong here:

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1060497491;s tart=60

That's not to say they will ever get made, however, but feel free to request them.

Even still, if a Loki avatar was made The Giant would still prefer you not use the avatar on other forums.

[Geethree]

On this subject, one of my personal hobbies is making little sig banners for use on various forums. Currently I have one of OotS on the pvpforums. While it's mostly just copy and pasting your comic strip and changing some of the colors around to make it look banner-like, I'm not sure if you're OK with it. Here is the banner. (http://img62.photobucket.com/albums/v190/Geethree/ootsclown.gif)

So, would you like me to stop using it? I never normally stop to think that other people might object to me giving them advertising (side note: the banner DOES link to your comic), but I figure I might as well ask.

[The Giant]

Check your Private Messages, Geethree.

[SpitwolF]

Hi, urm sorry if I sound stupid. I use flash alot and make little images. Could I possibly make my own? I mean, its a druid woman and she won't look anything like yours and I'll try to make it as different as possible. But will be a stick person. It would be used on a totally different forum.

Just thought I'd ask... please don't smite me :(

P.S. Maybe if I send it to you, and then you can see whether its too like yours or not.

[The Giant]

If you are not using my actual image file, you can make whatever you want for your use. I can't copyright the concept of a stick figure! :)

There might be trademark issues if you started your own strip that was obviously a knock-off of mine, but that's not what we're talking about.

[SpitwolF]

Oh god no lol! I couldn't tell a story very well even if I had the book infront of me. Don't worry about that. Thankya very much all I needed to know!

[Latro_]

Gee - given the context of this thread...

Is my avatar OK? I cropped the image out of OotS #25 cos it was one of my fave's.

Just say the word and this avatar will be history. I do not want to incur the wrath of the Mod/Artist/Author over this...

[The Giant]

Yeah, I'd prefer it if no one reused clips from the comic. Thanks for understanding. :)

[Latro_]

Not a prob! ;-)

Lessee...

[Latro roots around in his bag-o-many-avatars]

Do you have a pixel dimension I should be aware of?

[edit]

Oops! DuH! 117 x 117. Let's see what I gots...

[The Giant]

117 x 117. And it will be made square if its not already, which may stretch it weirdly.

[Latro_]

Well - call me lazy but I liked the Capt Jack Sparrow sort of feel to this one.

Besides - these fit and they're likely better than anything else I can come up with at 1AM... :P

[Desdan_Mervolam]

This thread gave me the excuse I was looking for to change my avatar over at Nifty (http://azure.bbboy.net/niftymessageboard). I don't suppose there is a way to suggest a custom stick avatar, Giant?

-Des

[Baron]

I don't suppose there is a way to suggest a custom stick avatar, Giant?

I'll echo Bogotter above, try this thread for avatar requests.

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1060497491;s tart=60

And as Bogotter also says, there's no guarantees anything you request will get made by The Giant.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

I'll echo Bogotter above, try this thread for avatar requests.

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1060497491;s tart=60

And as Bogotter also says, there's no guarantees anything you request will get made by The Giant.

Yes, I realize. I was talking less along the lines of a avatar request than an avatar comission. And yes, I realize the process may require stealthily tucking fat rolls of bills into The Giant's pockets ;)

-Desdan

[Lord_Nathanel]

Mr. Giant I hope I don't sound absurd in this. But did you ever think about making custom avatars as a prize for your contests or something along those lines, Or maybe a birthday gift from you? All trademark of course. Will your images ever get the lil (tm) next to it? I sure hope not. I mean, who runs around with a lil tm fairy ;D

[Mizkyu]

I mean, who runs around with a lil tm fairy ;D

http://freespace.virgin.net/toonraider.uk/fairy2.gif

Sorry. One day I'll get a job instead of lurking on forums all day... ;)

[Lord_Nathanel]

Oh my god!!! That is awesome! If I was given a tm fairy like that, then NO complaints would be made! ;D

[Tawmis]

Are we free to make some up of our OWN without using your already existing ones? Like if I wanted to do one, with the same idea and theme as preset by OotS... could I whip one up for these forums? Say, for example, a barbarian with long hair, with a glowing blue sword, wearing a wolf's head pelt on his head... would this be acceptable?

(Not that I have the artistic skill required to pull off such a feat... just wanna eb clear is all)

[The Giant]

Yeah, your own avatar like the one Mizkyu made is fine, as long as you don't try to make a knock-off comic with it. I consider it fanart, after a fashion.

[Nighthawk4]

Mr. Giant I hope I don't sound absurd in this. But did you ever think about making custom avatars as a prize for your contests or something along those lines, Or maybe a birthday gift from you? All trademark of course. Will your images ever get the lil (tm) next to it? I sure hope not. I mean, who runs around with a lil tm fairy ;D


Nice idea - my Birthday is next Sunday (25th).

[Chaotic_Wun]

How do you make those stick figures? Do you use MS Paint, Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro?

[Bogotter]

How do you make those stick figures? Do you use MS Paint, Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro?


The Giant answers that question here:

http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq3

[Chaotic_Wun]

Thanks. :)

By the way, why is tehre no specific "FAQ" link on the left menu bar?

[Arian]

How do you make those stick figures?

My in-house artist made my custom avatar using MS Paint. It doesn't look as polished as the Giant's (hey, the artist is 11), but it works for me.

[The Giant]

Thanks. :)

By the way, why is tehre no specific "FAQ" link on the left menu bar?

Because the FAQ was only added a few weeks ago, and we have so far been too lazy to change the sidebar. Besides, I figured everyone read the comic and would see it at the top.

[Chaotic_Wun]

I didn't notice, but that's just me.

Speaking of just me, is the side bar a little screwed up?

[Baron]

I didn't notice, but that's just me.

Speaking of just me, is the side bar a little screwed up?

Seems to be working fine to me.

If it's not working for you, you might want to start a topic on the "Board issues" forum :)

[Chaotic_Wun]

It's working fine now.

[Mock26]

The Giant,

I hope that my avatar meets with your approval. It is based on your avatar in the sense that I used yours as a guide to judge size and everything, and I also happen to wear glasses and have a goatee. Please let me know if it is too close to your avatar and I will recreate one.

Please bear in mind, though, that my avatar is not for a comic or anything. It's primary use will be for here, on this site.

Thanks.

Take care and have a great day....

ciao,
john.

[Lonestarr]

That's why I make my own avatars. http://img66.exs.cx/img66/593/Melvy-Dance.gif

[Lelorinel]

Well, I am what a few people call a 'flash artist', but i'm just a dude that does flash for kicks, and to keep his job.

Anyways, since I saw OOtS, I had this overwhelming urge to make a flash movie out of these guys, since they are obviously vector graphics.(Note: This flash movie would be a good excercise for me, and it would be your movie, for advertising or whatever.)

The deal is I'd need a lot of permissions before i do anything about/with it.

So Giant, if you're reading this, PM me, I'd like to know what you think.

[Aralen]

can I resize avatars for use them in another forum, while I put in my signature a banner to this page?

[Adghar]

Probably not. The image will still be copyrighted and owned by the Giant and resizing will not change the fact that the image is his. I'm pretty sure he would appreciate linking, though.

Lelorinal, what I think is that it's like watching a VHS video thingy. As long as it's for private use, it doesn't infringe copyrights. But it's good to ask for permission.

[Lelorinel]

I could do that, but what's the fun of making a flash movie if nobody can watch it but me?

Anyways, my goal would be to put the movie somewhere OOtS fans could enjoy it.(Like on the Giant's website...)

-Lel

[MarioGilera]

i can hold mine?? it's a simply copy and paste..
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/mariogilera/VAR/portrait.JPG

if i can't, may be that i'll se a smiley drow in avatars... :D

[clarkcd]

Here's your answer MarioGilera right from the Giant earlier in the thread.


Yeah, I'd prefer it if no one reused clips from the comic. Thanks for understanding. :)

[MarioGilera]

Here's your answer MarioGilera right from the Giant earlier in the thread.



thx 1k, i don't have read the previous posts... :-[

anyway i hope to find smiley drow

[Theragar]

Hi,
I'm a regular reader of your comic strip and I think it's really great. But in my humble opinion you're a little too rigid with your intellectual property - I think it would do no harm if you would allow people to alter and reuse the avatars for noncommercially use.

In Germany we have a comic strip author called "Bender" which made avatars for the site www.counter-strike.de.
The people really liked the avatars and Bender made a tutorial how to draw your own "Bender", so they made their own and more and more message boards adopted them. Bender became quite popular through this and made his first comic book (in color ;)) which you could buy nearly everywhere, and people were asking for more and more fan-stuff like Bender t-shirts, posters, cups etc. etc.

Well, I think you made your point of view so very clear that I don't think I can change it. Perhaps the legal situation in the USA is also quite different than in Germany, but in my opinion OOTS would become much more popular if you would allow people to link directly to your strips, to alter and use your avatars for noncommercial use etc.

When I read the FAQ yesterday, it was all like "whatever you want to do to promote my comic - don't do it, it's mine!"

[The Giant]

You are entitled to your opinion, but I have no intention of altering my stance on my intellectual property.

[Theragar]

Well I thought so... :)

Nevertheless. thanks for your attention and keep up the good work... OOTS is great and I regret that the week doesn't have more mondays and thursdays :D

[bluemonsta]

I would love to see more OotS cartoons, but I think the week already has one too many Mondays. :P I want a couple more Saturdays instead.

Hey, Lonestar. That dancing smiley with the green sticks (?) is pretty cool.

[Little_Lich]

In what area of this page can I send FanArt?
I used to draw OOTS-like characters just for fun, and I came up with some good ones...Anyway I wanted to do an adventuring party and then send it...Unfortunatley I dont have the programs or the skills to do it on my computer so I'll have to do it in pencil/pen and then scan it and mail it to you...How do I do this??? Please answer as it would mean a lot to me :)
And OOTS rule! And can I make my own Avatars and use them for personal use only...at this Forum?

[Bogotter]

If you would like to submit fanart just email the Giant:

[email protected]

[pumpkinetics]

I'll probably get my own avatar fixed up soon, once I've managed to fix up a webpage.

[Hydro]

And can I make my own Avatars and use them for personal use only...at this Forum?

If you don't want to use one of the provided avatars, there is a space in your profile for you to link to your own. Check right under the scroll bar that has Giant's existing avatars.

[DM-from-hell]

I use this avatar of mine on all of the forums I'm on- my site, other peoples, and this one. Its the cutest pose I've gotten from any of my pet mice- I use the picture all over the place.

Yeah, don't ask about me and my mice, "You have MICE? What are you, mental?" I think they're cute...

[Rin]

Hey, I have gerbils. ;)

[Enaloindir]

Is my avatar ok? I made it in PSP, so no picture editing for me... ;)

If it's not ok, I'll pick one from the site.


Thanks,
Enaloindir

[pumpkinetics]

Is my avatar ok? I made it in PSP, so no picture editing for me... ;)

If it's not ok, I'll pick one from the site.


Thanks,
Enaloindir

As long as your avatar is not a copy or a modification of one of the existing ones, you are allowed to use it. I don't think there's anything wrong with yours Enaloindir.

[Cap_Hardman]

http://images.melekashiro.multiply.com/image/1/photos/4/600x600/63.GIF

By Heromachine. I imagine they like this in Photorealistik shoot.
http://melekashiro.multiply.com/photos/hi-res/4/63.GIF?xurl=%2Fphotos%2Fphoto%2F4%2F63.GIF

[pumpkinetics]

But Vaarsuvius is rather obviously male in that pic! Vaarsuvius needs to be more genderly ambiguos!

Still, Bang-up job there. Well done!

[Cap_Hardman]

But Vaarsuvius is rather obviously male in that pic! Vaarsuvius needs to be more genderly ambiguos!

Still, Bang-up job there. Well done!

CAP: TKS, Pumpking!

What about now?

http://images.melekashiro.multiply.com/image/1/photos/4/600x600/67.GIF

[pumpkinetics]

Much better! Looks a lot more ambiguos. Congratulations!

[Cap_Hardman]

Much better! Looks a lot more ambiguos. Congratulations!

Tks... I hope the Giant doesn't mind... ;D

[clarkcd]

Tks... I hope the Giant doesn't matter... ;D

???

Of course the Giant matters!

[Cap_Hardman]

I mean "Mind". :-/

[TheKender]

http://images.melekashiro.multiply.com/image/1/photos/4/600x600/63.GIF

By Heromachine. I imagine they like this in Photorealistik shoot.
http://melekashiro.multiply.com/photos/hi-res/4/63.GIF?xurl=%2Fphotos%2Fphoto%2F4%2F63.GIF

are they all pictured in that plastic pose because it is so fashion? :rotfl:

[Cap_Hardman]

are they all pictured in that plastic pose because it is so fashion? :rotfl:

No! they were playing "Joke-n-put"... but everibody put "Stone..." :o

[Aedan]

No! they were playing "Joke-n-put"... but everibody put "Stone..." :o

... Wouldn't that be "Rock,Paper,Scissors"?

[Cap_Hardman]

... Wouldn't that be "Rock,Paper,Scissors"?

My bad-whritten english is legendary, but I'm sure that this game is as well known as "paper/rock/scissors", "jokenpô", "joke 'n Put".

I should sai "Rock" instead of "stone"...

[Adghar]

I mean "Mind". :-/

I'm pretty sure clarkcd was being sarcastic. He does that a lot. I think he knew what you meant but decided to mock your mistake.

[Ruth]

Hi there... 20 minutes later and I've read the whole thread so that I don't annoy anyone by restating a question ;)

I was wondering (not having read the ENTIRE forum, so please don't yell if it's answered elsewhere) if there was any word on a set of avatars that includes www.giantitp.com in the image for external use? The Giant said "neat idea, I'll think about it" or something like that.

My husband and I started a gaming community for BC and Alberta here in Canada about 3 years ago... we're looking to expand our avatars collection. Since OotS is so popular among our members (especially the admin team) we wanted to provide some from here.

As an artist who has had artwork stolen and modified I can completely sympathize with the rigid stance you're taking, Rich. While I'd love to see a set of avatars for offsite, I won't be heartbroken if you say "no".

I AM glad to know we're permitted to print them for monster tiles, much appreciated. Figurines are expensive and keep falling over ;)

[Iazmynh]

There is a thread in this forum labelled "Personal OOTS Avatars." You can ask for help making a Stick-Like Avatar for use elsewhere, or you may draw an original one for yourself, but as far as I recall the Official OOTS Avatars shouldn't be used offsite.

[FacelessSchmuck]

Well, I was using a green version of RedWizardGuy. I never claimed it was my own work. I never claimed it was anything; it was just a picture displayed below my username. But I guess liking green better than red (and not wanting to be an elven chick) is somehow infringing on his intellectual property so here.

Is this one legit?

(Aside from the fact that having my hand in my pocket on a body this size looks... off)

[Ruth]

Uhm, yes, than you Iazmynh I'm very clear on what's *not* allowed and very clear on where to get my own personal avatar. But this is what I'm referring to (from page two of this thread).


Since avatar images cannot be changed, could you either include your web address in these avatars, or make a special batch of avatars for off-site forums which includes "www.giantitp.com" somewhere on it?

I figure that if you're going to allow people to use them on off-site (I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was okay - but I could be wrong) then you might as well get some free advertisement.


Response from the Giant: Not a bad idea, I'll see if I can get to it. :)

Since that was almost a year ago I wanted to revive the topic and see if anything had been done about it.

As for your FacelessSchmuck, (why do I feel like I'm being rude by using the nick you chose? lol) I have no idea if that image was Rich's or if you did it from scratch, I only want to address the property rights thing.

If I'm giving you a lift in my car and I decide I think you smell bad, I'm well within my rights to pull over and tell you to get the heck out. It's my car, I own it, I have the right to decide what I do with my property. You may think I'm an inconsiderate ass hole for doing so, you *are* entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't change my right.

Hell, if I decide I want to scratch the roof of my car because it's "fun" I can do that too... sure I devalue the car and it would be stupid, but that's my right.

Rich has drawn these images and risked losing them to internet theives by making them available online for our viewing pleasure. Regardless how any of us feels it is his right to do with those images as he pleases. Did you know you're not even suppose to scan your own portrait when you get it done by a photographer? And stores that scan images for you will not scan portraits unless you have a written letter from the photographer? True story.

I happen to agree with Rich objecting to even small edits to his images... though I can tell from your tone that you don't ;) When you have an online comic and are about to put out your first book... then you can make the decisions and let people get annoyed with you. :)

[Hobot]

But I guess liking green better than red (and not wanting to be an elven chick) is somehow infringing on his intellectual property so here

You're being sarcastic here, but the Giant has good reason to prohibit any alteration of his work, even minor ones like colour changes. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "give them an inch and they'll take a mile"; that applies here as well. If the Giant ok's small changes, people will argue for larger and larger changes and debate over what a "small" change really is. It will make it much harder for him to control what is done with his art and he shouldn't have to worry about things like that.


Well, I was using a green version of RedWizardGuy. I never claimed it was my own work. I never claimed it was anything; it was just a picture displayed below my username.

That's a problem though. You should mention that you have altered someone else's work (assuming that you have permission to). If you don't say anything, that's like claiming it's your own.

[FacelessSchmuck]

That's a problem though. You should mention that you have altered someone else's work (assuming that you have permission to). If you don't say anything, that's like claiming it's your own.

So wait, if I put a note in my sig that says "AVATAR IS ALTERED VERSION OF RED_WIZARD_GUY BY RICH "TEH GIANTX0RZ" BURLEW," then I can have it?

I don't want the mile, I just want the inch. Gimme back my inch.

Also, using stick avatars on message boards other than this one would be out of context and therefore, at least to my mind, not funny. There's no point.


I'd like to reiterate that all sarcasm aside, I love the comic. Wasn't there something about immitation being the sincerest form of something, something, the facts of life, the facts of life? I never paid attention in school.

[Ruth]

Sure... imitate all you want! but when you crack someone over the head and try to climb inside a people suit made from their skin... that gets creepy.

Imitation has nothing to do with taking the original piece of work and editing it. I could paint a picture that looks like one of Claude Monet's paintings (in fact, I have) but if I get my hands on an original I'm not going to start painting over it!! :P

Imitate is defined as "to use or follow as a model" or even "to copy exactly; reproduce" neither of which involve editing an original object. In the second definition, as we all should know, to copy exactly is also infringing on copyright.

I hope that helps you to understand a bit better. If you'd like more information you can view these very helpful web sites:
http://www.rightsforartists.com
http://www.whatiscopyright.org

[Adghar]

So wait, if I put a note in my sig that says "AVATAR IS ALTERED VERSION OF RED_WIZARD_GUY BY RICH "TEH GIANTX0RZ" BURLEW," then I can have it?


That is not what she (he?) is saying. Re-read that post. It states "(If you have permission)".

In fact, she (he?) is asking the Giant whether that is okay right now...

[Sojourner]

im not viiolating anything am i?

[Adghar]

No. It's already been said that you can create your own stick-like avatars for fanart.

Unless of course that was a modification of an existing GitP image...

[LizTheRogue]

Question: My avatar is a sketch Rich drew for me this weekend. I scanned it in, and kept his sig and date on it. Is it ok for me to use here?

[Lilly]

Other than making all the people on the boards who can't go to cons and get spiffy cool crayon sketches envy you? Unless he said anything specific to you when you got the sketch, I can't think of a reason why not.

[Ikkitosen]

I'd imagine he'd be quite flattered :D.

[LizTheRogue]

Well, I certainly don't mean to make people envious... :-[
lol

[da_blahza]

^ nobody ever does :p

[Panda]

We can still make our own based off of the Avatar imgaes?
Can we use the avatar pics, but rig them(into different poses)?

[Arian]

You can't start off with a copy of one of the Giant's images. They're his and he doesn't want them modified.

Any image constructed by you right from scratch (including a stick figure that looks similar to the forum avatars) is yours. You can do whatever you like with that.

[akumadaimyo]

Well one of the problems is these images are so easy to draw on your own how can you honestly know someone didnt draw their own image based on something here and then add more custom stuff to it? It's a stick figure. Those arent too hard to draw.

[Arian]

It depends what you mean by "based on".

If you mean someone deliberately duplicating (freehand, as it were) one of the avatar images - even if they did, it's still their picture, in their own style. It won't look exactly like the Giant's even if they're aiming to make it as similar as possible, so it's not an issue.

(For example, my avatar has several features in common with DruidGirl, for the excellent reason that I asked the artist to include the characteristics of that avatar that I like best when she made mine for me; but no-one would mistake it for a modified version of the real avatar.)

If you mean "How could you prove it if someone did take one of the existing avatars, messed with it a lot, and then claimed it was original?" - well, I'd hope a loyal fan wouldn't do that, seeing Rich has made his position on the matter so clear. :P

[Pocket_Rocket]

I would just like to point out that it doesn't matter how you copy a work, the act of copying it without permission is contrary to copyright laws.

Mechanically, electronically or freehand is irrelevant.

Any blanket statements about permissions is based on the creator's good will, not a legal obligation. Any prohibitions about altering original works is just a restatement of the law -- the baseline of expected behavior -- not the creator being petty.


If you mean "How could you prove it if someone did take one of the existing avatars, messed with it a lot, and then claimed it was original?" - well, I'd hope a loyal fan wouldn't do that, seeing Rich has made his position on the matter so clear.

If you can still identify the original work from the "interpretation" then you are on pretty shaky ground.

Copyright laws allow insignificant portions of protected works (mostly written) to be copied for specific purposes. I don't think that there is the same provision for visual works. I doubt "making a new avatar" is one of those specific exceptions.

Cheers

[ObadiahtheSlim]

True, but making a stick figure similar to one of Rich's and making your own Roy stick figure are too diferent things. The latter is copyright infringment since Roy is Rich's character.

[deathregis]

just drawing Roy yourself is fair use.

[Pocket_Rocket]

just drawing Roy yourself is fair use.

No. No it isn't.

I will reiterate. It does not matter how you copy something. If it is illegal to photocopy it or scan it, then it is illegal to make a drawing by hand.

Fair use pertains to how you use the copy (e.g. for purposes of criticism or review). Personal use is not one of the exceptions under Fair Use.

Do I think that you are going to be sued for making a copy and putting it in your scrap-book? Well, the Giant would know better than me. But the law does present him with that option.

Cheers

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Fair use only counts for parady and such. Thats why folks like 8-bit theater, sprite comics in general, and gaming comics that show copyrighted materials, don't have to worry that they are using copyrighted charecters. Of course it's good form to ask permision first, but there is no legal recourse if you don't.

[mephassovar]

Anyone had any probs getting a URL to work for adding a picture (completely new to the whole drawing thing).

let's see if this works here:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/mephassovar/lothar.bmp
:'( why does that not work :'(

[Ruth]

Anyone had any probs getting a URL to work for adding a picture (completely new to the whole drawing thing).

let's see if this works here:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/mephassovar/lothar.bmp
:'( why does that not work :'(

Because you forgot a p on the end of your URL. The image is a bmp, not a bm.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/mephassovar/lothar.bm

[Arian]

Anyone had any probs getting a URL to work for adding a picture (completely new to the whole drawing thing).

let's see if this works here:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/mephassovar/lothar.bmp
:'( why does that not work :'(

Because your image is a bitmap. Avatars have to be GIF or JPG.

[Pocket_Rocket]

Fair use only counts for parady and such.

In theory, yes. Although the recent ruling against the author and publisher of "The Wind Done Gone" -- a parody of Gone With the Wind, indicates quite strongly that even if parody or criticism are your intention, you still have to convince a judge that that is the case.

Cheers

[Annon]

Okay, this is the way I understand copyright:

You can not copy, in any way, another's intellectual property and claim it is yours, except under certain circumstances:

1: You are critisizing or parodying the work. However, you can still be convicted of infringement if you go too far and use too much material that isn't your own, claiming it all as yours.

2: The author gives you explicit consent to do so.

The specific instances when you will definately be charged are when the result of your copying results in the loss of profit (in any form) on the part of the owner, and when you slightly alter the owner's original work, claim it is his, and use that to (say it again) screw him out of what is his due.

For the most part, most things we are allowed by authors--fan art, advertizements, and alteration--could be disallowed, but, since it is benefitial to the author, many times, to gain free advertizing of this form, many authors don't make any big fuss.

As far as sprite comics go, they are allowed in the same manner to do things. For one, it is usually good natured fun that still respects the original work. For two, the games are so darned old the company isn't losing a darned thing to the comic makers--it cost more in legal fees than it would to make fifty of the same game. So could they make a stink about it? Maybe, but noone cares that much.

Another thing, regarding the buying of copyrights: Copying anothers intellectual property is illegal the second it is put on a piece of paper/saved to a disk/transcribed/documented. The only purpose, and power, the little (TM) or (C) holds is so, after the criminal courts are done with you, the original owner can then clean your pockets for everything you have cost them. Note--after the criminal courts have spit you out.

Rich is fully justified in his wanting to keep the lid on his property. The internet is the riskiest place to put anything you want to hold on to, and, despite his efforts, Rich has probably already lost quite enough to piracy. As he said, give an inch, and you lose a mile. While 99% of the fan base here is trustworhy, 1% is all it takes to crash the whole thing with computers.

<<Edit: If I made any glaring mistakes, or spoke out of line, you can correct me, spit acid, and I'll shut up.>>

[mr.bob]

All i wanted to do was to change the gnome wizard so that his robe was red. :'(
Am I allowed to do that? I won't use it for anything else besides an avatar on this site.
Please ;D

[Gorbash Kazdar]

You can ask Rich if he could make a red-robed variant, or see if he's willing to give direct and specific permission for the recolor, but, without that, doing so would be a violation of the forum rules and Rich's direct request made at the beggining of this thread.

[ChEEsemuFFin]

hey, just a suggestion:

I saw this other webcomic that (like this one) had an art style fairly simplistic. on the site there was a space where you could design your own charactors using the art style of the comic by selecting from a list of skin colors, hair styles, etc.. So i was thinking why not have something like that here so people can make custom avatars simpily and easily, even those artsticly challeged (yes, i know that there are few people artsticly challeged enough as to not be able the draw stick figues). but anyway it was just an idea you don't need to pay attention to it.

Thanks for reading this,
Me

[Angel]

Does this rule cover also user-specified avatars, like mine? I do not wish ppl to alter my image as well...

[Arian]

Angel, it covers all images.

If you are the original artist of your avatar, other people should not use or alter it without your express permission.

If you derived it from somewhere else, you should request the creator's permission to use the picture.

[mr.bob]

:'(
I'll never have a unique and cool looking robe.

[Nikolai_II]

:'(
I'll never have a unique and cool looking robe.

Look into these two threads instead:

Make your own avatar: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1090550324

Beg someone else for an avatar: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1105572416

You can't go messing around with someone elses work, but it is completely legal to do your own work from scratch, even if you have been inspired by someones work. (Look at the Drow avatar here - he has two scimitars, despite that neither Salvatore nor WotC can lay the smackdown, because it is not a copy/rework of Drizzt, but original art just using similar concepts)

[Angel]

Angel, it covers all images.

If you are the original artist of your avatar, other people should not use or alter it without your express permission. Yep, I've done it myself. Thanks.

[ThreadNecromancer]

I don't know where to post this, so: Why isn't there a lich/serilich avatar? I mean, it kinda goes with the necromancer avatars.

[devious3]

Does this rule cover also user-specified avatars, like mine? I do not wish ppl to alter my image as well...
This is a big thing to me aswell... I am an up and comming artist... currently enrolled in the art institute of vancouver in the game art and design program... I have a link to a site were i display 85% of my personal work... I dont mind if you coppy/past/save it onto you computer for the fact that you like the immage just dont tamper with it... thanks...

Rich, a while ago [when i first come to the site] i was going to try and fiddle with the dwarven cleric avitar, change the color of the beard and shield, but thought twice about it... I asked myelf how i would like it if someone did that to me... so i can understand where you are coming from...

[Pax]

Indeed. My custom avatars, for example, are mine - but if folks ASK me, nicely ...? Not only will I do my best to alter them myself (a little color-jiggery shouldn't be a problem, drawing certain props might be) ...

Heck, if asked, I might even endeavor to make something completely new. no promises I'd succeed, mind, but ...

And then, I'd even host the new avatar on my own webspace, and name it in such a way that it's clear it's a custom-done job for someone else.

But nab and alter without asking me?

Expect a cease-and-desist letter, 'cause that just ain't right.

[Hazze]

Just want to say your (Rich) reaction to the situation is the way an adult would do it, instead of the immature way Squidi is treathening the kid who "stole" his work. I like your comic very much, and i like Squidi.net, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to remove Squidi from my bookmarks because he won't update anymore. Whatever happens, never ever do this! OOTS rocks!

(If my english is bad> sorry, not my native language)

[xolik]

Just want to say your (Rich) reaction to the situation is the way an adult would do it, instead of the immature way Squidi is treathening the kid who "stole" his work. I like your comic very much, and i like Squidi.net, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to remove Squidi from my bookmarks because he won't update anymore. Whatever happens, never ever do this! OOTS rocks!

(If my english is bad> sorry, not my native language)

I stopped reading Squidi as soon as I started noticing every day seemed to be "LOLZ CHRITIANS R DUM LAFFO" in his front page blog. I understand that Athiesm is all the rage with you kids these days, but come on. Shame too. He's makes a damn good comic.

[Gobbo_in_the_Boots]

what I'd like to know - can someone use the avatars as they are here on other boards or so?
Lucky I've got a Veeratar... praise Veera.... praise! praise!

[RawBearNYC]

what I'd like to know - can someone use the avatars as they are here on other boards or so?
Lucky I've got a Veeratar... praise Veera.... praise! praise!

I'm too lazy to go figure out where this was posted, but you can't use avatars Rich made anywhere else without his specific permissions. Rich has no authority over any avatars he didn't create however. So, Veera would be the one to ask if you want to use one she made somewhere else, unless you paid cash for her to make it, in which case, you own the image and can make whatever decisions you want about it.

[Nikolai_II]

unless you paid cash for her to make it, in which case, you own the image and can make whatever decisions you want about it.

Or maybe one should say 'might own it', most deals with artists only concern use of the art for personal or limited public use. You usually can't sell it on, alter it etc., but that is all about how the agreement was written/stated.

[Peregrine]

Or maybe one should say 'might own it', most deals with artists only concern use of the art for personal or limited public use. You usually can't sell it on, alter it etc., but that is all about how the agreement was written/stated.
Yeah, just about every sort of "intellectual property" (cough, hack) is not sold but licensed these days. Traditionally you could do pretty much whatever you wanted if you bought a piece of art (short of reproducing it), but these days... ::)

[RawBearNYC]

If you buy something that someone already made, then yeah, it's liscensing. However, commission work is almost always owned by the person who commissioned the work. That's how magazines and newspapers manage to own the copy that their writers write.

[Sendar]

what I'd like to know - can someone use the avatars as they are here on other boards or so? (sic)


http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq22

No. (The bit about copyrighted artwork and not using it (modified or not) on other sites.)

We have 'limited' premission to use the 'default' avatars here. Using them somewhere else without expressed premission would be ... bad.

Peter: I'm kinda fuzzy on the whole "good/bad" thing... could you be more specific?

Egon: Imagine time stopping and every molecule of your body exploding outward at the speed of light.

Peter: That's bad. Ok, don't cross the streams. Important safety tip, thanks Egon.

(Note: I'm ok using a short quote from the movie for parody/review purposes.)

[Tarot]

Aside from the entire LEGAL issue...

I took (read:ripped off) one of the panels from an OOTS strip. I recolored Haley to match my avatar in another game. The panel represented *ideally* an inside joke about my character (being a pirate) and other characters there also looked like avatars of other administrators of the gaming site I admin.

I got many compliments on it (I was using it as a signature) and steered people to OOTS. I was happy to intro them to this great comic.

Just so happens I know someone who knows Rich. (I do not know him, and have never talked/emailed him). I asked them to ask him if he'd mind...as an afterthought. I assumed he wouldn't.

He did mind. I immediately removed the signature. He would have never seen it had I not mentioned it to someone who knew him, and it did generate a small amount of traffic to OOTS. Plus I really liked it.

NONE OF WHICH IS THE POINT.

The ONLY point is that if an artist wishes that you not steal their work, then not only do you have a legal obligation to comply...but if you LIKE their work, you should have enough respect to comply.

I loved that signature a lot, but bottomline, I like this strip and it gives me pleasure to read it. It cheers up my day, and it makes me laugh. And it's free.

The very LEAST I can do in return is respect the hard work that is put into the strip by not stealing and adjusting the images when the artist (Rich Burlow) has expressly asked that people NOT do it.

Thanks again for OOTS, I look forward to it 3x a week.

PS: If ass-kissing helps, I'd be willing to engage in some to weasel back my signature. ;) It won't work, but it's worth the try. I can also offer up many gnomes in sacrifice to Church of Banjo...

[Mictlan]

Giant:

If I make a Banjulhu avatar for this board. Is this OK?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/OCMictlan/Bajulhu.bmp

[gypsymaria]

We are allowed to make our own stick figure avatars, drawn from scratch but in the same style as OOTS, right? I seem to remember something about that in the rules. I doodled mine up in Photoshop in about 5 minutes when I first joined. As far as I can tell, it's not based on any of the original avatars.

[Poeir]

(RAWBear, below is pretty much the same thing I asked you, but it fits in the context here now and hopefully will have the effect of not cutting into your time.)

gypsymaria,

Creating your own avatar is an original work, and therefore you own the copyright on it. The following is not an official response, but is what the precedent has been: You can use such an avatar on the board.

Everyone,

Can avatars of non-OGLed monsters be legally created, or would they qualify as derivative works? I know that a sculpture of a painting qualifies as a derivative work, so I'd expect a drawing of a drawing would, too; but it may be a reinterpretation of that drawing, and I'm not sure if the drawing of a description counts as a derivative work. Anyone know what the limits here are? I expect something vague, like "within reason," or more likely, "a substantial amount of creativity."

[Omniplex]

I would think that you can, as there is a mind flayer-I mean, squid thingie-avatar. There's nothing that WotC can do to stop you if you say that it's not their copywrited monster, and just happens to look like it.(well, I hope not) It doesn't have to be their monster, but just something based off it.

[Jibar]

I want to know something,
A: What is a verrathingy?
B: Can't Rich make some we're allowed to edit, sorta blank humanoids with clothes to put on and such?

[pumpkinetics]

A Veeratar is a custom avatar designed for a single poster by the artist Veera. If you want one, you can find details on this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1116952757 ;start=0). However, you need to have at least 50 posts to your post count and have had to have been a regular poster here for a while. Just letting you know.

[Jibar]

Hmmm, glad to know that, looks like i'm not going to get one soon though. oh well, this avatar looks so much like my character anyway....

[Sneak]

Well, I make custom avatars for people with less than 50 posts, so....and you got one of mine!

[ChubsMcGee]

I was wondering what is the stance on using the custom avatars here at other places. Personally if someone asked me about my avatar if it was the one I use here I would make sure to tell them its based on OOTS. But as far as legal issues go, if someone used their homemade avatar based on Giant's elsewhere and claim it was without outside influence is there anything wrong with that. I would think no, but I am just curious.

Not that it matters, I only post here.

[Pax]

The standard respons eis "ask the artist who made it".

See the Pixie to the left? I drew it, and I use it at RPG.net as well. If someone asks? I'll direct 'em to OotS, and gladly(more readers means more book-sales profits means more OotS for me! Enlightened self-interest, heh).

[Nightmarenny]

Sorry if this question is answered before in the 11 pages. Would It be ok to make on in your style(but not based one any particuler one) just in the big head stick arms way?

[pumpkinetics]

Of course! There's absolutely no problem with that, and many do it on a regular basis. See mine? I've done loads of 'em (Though my current one was done by an artist called Veera. Sadly she doesn't do them anymore)

[Malachi, the Lich King]

Dang....

And here I was thinking that it was darn thoughtful of the host to include options for avatars so I didn't have to think about finding or making one. Guess my ennui gets the best of me sometimes....

[Tarnag40k]

I knew about this and was hopping they would have a tmplate or something but i was wrong and had to have one made for me.

[Starla]

A Veeratar is a custom avatar designed for a single poster by the artist Veera. If you want one, you can find details on this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1116952757 ;start=0). However, you need to have at least 50 posts to your post count and have had to have been a regular poster here for a while. Just letting you know.

The reason she made a list was she received so many requests and some that she made for people were a waste of time because they disappeared shortly after she made it. It takes me at least half an hour uninterrupted to make a simple one with paint so I could imagine the frustration for making one that doesn't get used. So the 50 post requirement just shows they are a person that is more likely to continue their account.

[Sneak]

I understand that sentiment too, even though I have made avatars for people with 2 posts, maybe 1, and will probably continue to do so.

Someone PMed me requesting a "half orc paladin", I think it was someone called Fargen. His only post was in the "Post here if you're new" thread. I PMed him back asking for more information, and he hasn't answered me yet, so I guess I won't make it. I'm glad I didn't just decide to start.

[Wolfie]

all I can say is that Sneak's avatars RULE :D

[DarkCloud]

That's certainly undisputable... :D

[Raskannu]

Hi, I'm new here, and I was jast wondering. You see, I'm going to be making my own comic series that I'm planning to use stick figures for. Now, as you probably know, normal stick figures are hard to tell apart. Is it o.k. if I use your basic style, but don't actually use your avatars? :-/

[Wukei]

Raskannu, nothing against you personally, and I'm glad you asked Rich before you just MADE the comic, but really, you need to find a style to adopt that's all your own.

I know what most people will say: "What're you talking about, Wukei? You draw manga."

Yes, but I have my own style of it. You MIGHT find someone with the same style as I have, but manga has very subtle differences.

My suggestion, Raskannu, is to indeed draw stick figures, and you might draw simularly to the Giant, but make those subtle differences happen. ;)

[RawBearNYC]

Hi, I'm new here, and I was jast wondering. You see, I'm going to be making my own comic series that I'm planning to use stick figures for. Now, as you probably know, normal stick figures are hard to tell apart. Is it o.k. if I use your basic style, but don't actually use your avatars? :-/
IMHO, dirivative work is hard to do right. If there were a host of OOTS style comics out there, it'd be a no brainer. But without that, the words "cheap knockoff" come to mind. I mean, the second guy to paint using pointilism (I know nothing about art history, so I'm assuming that more than one artist tried it) had a tough decision to make. I would guess that if you weren't deliberately paying homage to The Giant with your art, it'd going to affect your credibility as an artist.

[Spike]

Whew..I'm glad I read this. I asked in another thread about starting a line-segment-rendering web-comic about friends of mine, and wanted to be 100% certain that I wasn't stealing IP or violating copyright.

I've been drawing stick-people since kindergarten (never really evolved my shading and perspective skills, as it were), and wasn't sure if the style itself was still free to use.



O
>--{}--<
/\
_/ \_

Better yet..here's an example I just made. Tell me if I'm out of bounds.

http://members.aol.com/jenkacey2k/avatars/stickspike.gif

[Estop]

First post in this forum, everyone should try and draw something.
I did using the same style as rich but i'm gonna try soemething different asap.

http://img329.echo.cx/img329/6227/works1bm.gif

[Viscount_Grey]

woah! I fall off the internet for a while, and this one is still going on... I think it's very important that you don't forward Rich's work without shamelessly advertising the source...

My own avatar was a Veera special (thanks muchly btw!), but since it was OotS inspired, when I used it elsewhere (on a forum that has since got rid of avatars because people were abusing it)... the avatar and sig all made reference to Veera and Rich...

A good plan, if you want a nice looking one is to do what I did - draw your own on paint or sth. and then ask if someone would care to modify it. This is especially helpful to those like me who have little or no cg artistic skill :P

just spent the last 90 mins catching up on the comic after a long absence... Rich.. you still rock!

[Klio]

Hi, all. My very first post, so though I've glanced through some other topics and have read (I think) all the messages here, I may have missed an answer to this one.

A friend of a friend has frames from one of his favourite comics tattooed on one arm (an ongoing project--he intends to cover one entire side of his body, I believe). I'm not quite that dedicated, but am wondering whether it would be permitted to wear a temporary tattoo of OOTS figures (or maybe of my pretty pretty avatar that I have fallen in love with already), for convention-wear or anywhere-wear while it's summer and arms and various other skin acreage are generally bared.

I've never been sure about copyright and tattooing.

[Sneak]

Yes, I'm pretty sure it would be fine. I mean, Rich lets you use your stuff for personal use, like to use them as miniatures. And when you tattoo it it's not like you're spreading it on the web, or claiming it's your work, or modifying it, or anything. So, although I'm not a legal expert here, I would say sure. And besides, would Rich really care if you tattooed one of his avatars on you?

[Klio]

And besides, would Rich really care if you tattooed one of his avatars on you?

I hope not. In any case, if he does, a towel and a dab of rubbing alcohol will remove the problem. I'd just hate to meet him at some convention some day and have the first thing I do be to horrify him. I've done that with more than enough con guests already. :P

[Tarnag40k]

Crao man i was gonna have the episodes of Elan running naked tattoed to my back :'( :'( :'(


Best strips ever!

[Quixote]

*cough*

I'm just going to pretend that my first impulse upon joining this forum wasn't to alter one of the avatars...

[Osric_the_Duelist]

I made my own Avatar, ... the site seems to be bogged down with traffic right now so its behaving strangely but if it comes up, here it is?

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_6768647/Yahoo!+Photo+Album/Order+of+Stick+Figure.jpg?grZw_4CBpxjWEXqx

[Adghar]

That kind of stuff goes here. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1119405459 )

[Lunara]

Just want to make sure - I don't want to step on toes - does that mean we shouldn't make our own tribute avatars?

[Malachi, the Lich King]

I believe the problem was with people altering the stock avatars that are provided when you sign up. Those are Rich's personal copyrights and as such should be left alone. Any original art you do on your own should be fine.

[Jeanette]

You know, I WAS going to get a butterfly tattooed on my right bicep, but now I'm thinking about maybe my little avatar girl here. *chuckles* I have a Michael Whelan dragon on my left thigh.

But only if the tattoo artist could somehow make her shiny ...

[August_West]

Just want to make sure - I don't want to step on toes - does that mean we shouldn't make our own tribute avatars?


Exactly what is a "tribute avatar"?

...so confused.
...brain hurts.

...too much gray area for my raw ability scores (e.g. Int 18, Dex 15, Wis 5)

[Sneak]

A "tribute avatar" is an avatar that you make yourself, but in The Giant's style. That is fine, but editing or taking his work from the comic or elsewhere is not okay. Mostly, people call "tribute avatars" as custom avatars, or by the person who made it. For example, an avatar made by Veera would be a Veeratar, and an avatar made by me would be a Sneakatar, etc.

Now I'm starting to ramble. I'll stop now.

[August_West]

Thank you, Sneak.

I must admit, though. I was excited as hell to post my new Fruit Pie Sorceror avatar. At 11PM last night, it was a toss up between that, and naked Elan.

I guess I'll just settle for a stock Bob Weir look-a-like, and hope someone makes me a Jerry Garcia one.

Thanks.

[vrox]

*sigh*too bad I'm chaotic evil! (jk, I never alter images.)

[Gefangnis]

I was going to edit the avatar to match my name, until I read this. I'll paint my own.

[Rhysanus_Ariquis]

Is it however ok to create my own avatar such as this one?

[Baron]

it is indeed ok to create your own. There are many that have already done so.

[valantha]

it is indeed ok to create your own. There are many that have already done so.

Wow, Baron, repeating this must get old... I just read through the [entire] thread, and it's amazing how many times the same point needs to be expressed...

1) NO, you can't change the avatars. For anything. Period. 'Why' doesn't matter.

2) NO, you can't use them on other sites.

3) YES, make your own, PLEASE. Similar styles are OK, modding existing avatars is NOT OK.

BTW folks, while I'm not a lawyer, I work with copyright and trademark issues daily - here's the thing. While you may or may not be able to argue about your creation being an infringement of someone else's intellectual property, do you really want to fight about it for years and go through attorney's fees and court dates and flame wars, etc., ad nauseum? While meanwhile, your website goes down because your web host didn't want to be sued, everybody and their brother decides to look you up in WHOIS to get your home telephone number and express their opinions, etc.?? Is it worth the risk to avoid the work of a few minutes' original creativity?

My 2gp... ;)

[Wukei]

Not 2 cp? Wow..it's worth a lot to you...

I have no talent in creating avatars...IE, I go to Sneak or Gorby, usually... If you can't make your own avatar, look in the Arts and Crafts thread for people who can...

[PrometheusRex]

Maybe most of her gaming experience is in something like NWN, where the only increment of coinage is gold. ::)

[Kalbereth]

So how about taking an avatar from someone here on the site (like a custom one they made you) and using that?

That's not copyright infringement right?

[Wukei]

You have to ask that particular artist if it's okay to use elsewhere...it depends upon the person.

[Kalbereth]

Well that's what I meant. The OOTS thing is only for stuff directly from the site.

[Wukei]

But it's still nice to ask the creator of an avatar if they're okay with you using it elsewhere.

[Kalbereth]

I get that too. Despite what some people will tell you, the best way to get people to like you is to show everyone a little respect. My questions pertained to giving Rich respect, asking the other creators permission was a given either way.

[RawBearNYC]

So how about taking an avatar from someone here on the site (like a custom one they made you) and using that?

That's not copyright infringement right?

I don't know what the perfect legal answer is here. If someone creates something for pay, the person paying for it, owns the item. If it's not paid for, then the artist retains ownership.


An owner of an item can, say, allow their item to be used as an avatar. But that doesn't give the person to whom they gave permission ownership of the item, and doesn't permit them to do anything to the item that they want.

However, I'm sure most of you custom artists aren't including usage liscenses with your custom work. So, in a void of express permission, how would a court judge the use of the artwork.

IMHO, if someone made me an avatar, I'd ask them for permission to use it in any other way other than here on the boards, and if they said "no", I'd respect that.

[Kalbereth]

Exactly. It would be completely rude to do it any other way.

[Leeroy]

is there anyway u can scan in a hand drawn photo to this side? if I can, im gonna try to beat one of my friends to draw a Necromancer if its okay (hes prob not gonna be a stick-guy)
sry for asking the same question as others, but i gotta be sure

[RawBearNYC]

is there anyway u can scan in a hand drawn photo to this side? if I can, im gonna try to beat one of my friends to draw a Necromancer if its okay (hes prob not gonna be a stick-guy)
sry for asking the same question as others, but i gotta be sure

GiantITP.com doesn't host any custom avatars for anyone (well, almost noone, Rich's and some of the ones he made for the mods are hosted here, but that's it). All custom avatars need to be hosted on your own web servers. If you look through this thread, you'll find lots of reccomendations for hosts.

That said, you could easily scan a picture and uploaded it to a web host and then link it here in your profile, same as any custom avatar.

[tarlen]

What about getting inspiration from OotS when creating your own miniatures? That okay? ;)

[RawBearNYC]

What about getting inspiration from OotS when creating your own miniatures? That okay? ;)
Considering that the stick figures started out as miniatures in Rich's real life game, that would not only be ok, but historically relevant.

Rich would draw his OOTS style stick figures on pieces of papers and then fold them like a paper tent and tape a penny to the bottoms so they wouldn't fall over.

Eventually, our group started to move to "real" figurines, which always disappointed me, cause I liked the custom stick figures better.

[tarlen]

Rich would draw his OOTS style stick figures on pieces of papers and then fold them like a paper tent and tape a penny to the bottoms so they wouldn't fall over.

I must say that I can understand the need for such a move. We are frequently running short of appropriate miniatures.

However, I just couldn't resist creating the "cleric" mini you should see below. IMHO, it is one of the best individual panels in OotS to date, and it was fun making too. I can't wait to start using it...

http://202.89.33.70/cleric.jpg

For anyone who is interested, it's 28mm tall, on a standard GW base, and the arms are from a Space Marine. :D

[idksocrates]

I've always been a bit hazy on copyright in general. Do you automatically get copyright rights when you create a work (i.e. picture, story, etc...) or do you have to submit to some other organization (such as the library of congress). Or does that only apply when publishing a work?

And also, what does "publishing" entail exactly? Does it just commission another company to manufacture and distribute your work?

[Roland St. Jude]

Basically, you can't copyright a mere idea. But the instant you put that idea in to a fixed form (drawing, words, song, what-have-you) it is protected by copyright law. Copyright protection attaches automatically the instant an original work is created. You don't need to publish it or put the (c) mark on it (as used to be the case). But those things are beneficial to do. Publishing and registering with the Library of Congress do have legal implications.

Check this out for more: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

P.S. Obviously, this is not intended as legal advice. :-X

[Bizwacky]

Yeah Roland hit the nail on the head, at least a good faith attempt to establish copyright is always a good idea though, such as the giant's posts here or just the word copyright and your name. Oh and the original reason I was posting is that I thought it would be a good idea to add your rules for use of the avatars to the bottom of the profile page, because not everyone always reads the faq. Also, there is a minor error in your rules for editing the avatars, at least copyright law wise, there is a way one could edit one of your avatars and still be protected, but I won't go into it here for obvious reasons, In fact its against my best discression to say there even is a way, and I have a feeling i will regret this post but I thought you should know.

The information contained in this post does not constitute legal advice or establish an attorney-client relationship. Any information contained herein may not be complete, correct or up-to-date.

[idksocrates]

thanks Roland, that really helped ;D

[sHorTdWaRvE]

is it ok if we use the pics (Avatars)on this website?

[Userguy]

Is it Ok if with use Avatars to do thing that wouldn't do anything harmful to you? serously,If I changed the colour of an Avatar's cloak from green to red how will it affect you? why do you have a problem with us modifing avatars?

[sHorTdWaRvE]

because that illegal i think its copy right.. if u made ur own avatar u could modify it but u cant mess some 1 elses work up.. that ur using..

[Bizwacky]

The problem is that the avatars are his property, as an artist the way you make your living is through your intellectual property, you have to protect it, if someone is altering your property they're using your work for their own benefit. That's how it effects him.

[Rawhide]

Not only that, but he needs to be seen to be protecting his work. If he doesn't then he can lose its copyright status.

I have done some personal research into this, it is trademarks you have to protect, not copyrights. Rich's right to protect his work still stands.

[sHorTdWaRvE]

thats what i said..basicly

[RawBearNYC]

Is it Ok if with use Avatars to do thing that wouldn't do anything harmful to you? serously,If I changed the colour of an Avatar's cloak from green to red how will it affect you? why do you have a problem with us modifing avatars?
Others have responded, but I want to be more concise. Rich has the right to dictate how his artwork gets used. That includes telling people not to edit it in any way. There are a couple reasons:

First, lets say that someone edits a picture and it's very sloppily done. If someone recognizes it as Rich's work, then the lack of skill will be attached to Rich's name, not yours.

Second (and more importantly), Rich's position here allows him a defensible position should someone try to do something with his artwork that does directly affect him. It's a hard thing to allow something in some cases and not in others. So, it's easier to not allow them at all. Then, when the question comes down, you can say "Hey, I stated from the beginning that I didn't want people editing my works."

Basically, there's a growing community of custom avatar builders here in the Playground, and if you're desperate for something that Rich doesn't provide, I'm sure one of them would be happy to help you out.

[Prince_Azar]

Unless someone is trying to profit from it, no need to get bent out of shape.

[Jades]

Profit isn't the point. The point is protecting his rights. The Giant has the right to protect his work, and I don't see why anybody thinks that he doesn't or shouldn't.

[Adghar]

Is it OK if I trace over Rich's characters' eyes in Illustrator for use with my own custom avatars?

[Ilover_Juventad]

Might be stupid, but I get Fs in Copyright protection class.

OotS style artwork okay in other websites?

[LE4dGOLEM]

I should think that such a small part of the characters would be okay. Make sure, if you are using it anywhere other than this very site, to credit the Giant for the style (OOTSy) and preferably, link home to the GiantITP site as well.



Rich's OOTS-style artwork remains his intellectual property for 10 years after he, or his company/corporation (whichever lasts longer) dies. As such, If you try to pass off his style as your own, you will be in serious legal stuff. The deepness of your doo-doo pit depends on how you use it. As a parody work, you should be okay, but if you say the style is your own, for personal use, you're in trouble. If If you try to pass it off as your own for commercial purposes, you are in seriously deep legal doo-doo - and Rich would every right to sue you for every penny you earned/have.

But technically, this is the Giant's choice, and desicion, but what I've said is some basic advice.

[Adghar]

I should think that such a small part of the characters would be okay.

For me or him?

[Mythx]

Hey.. I was just wondering. I saved all the little heads of the main OotS characters and I'm currently using them as msn-emoticons, they're so cute :P.
My question is, am I allowed to use them, or should I delete them? Whatever your choice is, I'll comply. Thanks in advance.

Mythx

[Studoku]

Hey.. I was just wondering. I saved all the little heads of the main OotS characters and I'm currently using them as msn-emoticons, they're so cute :P.
My question is, am I allowed to use them, or should I delete them? Whatever your choice is, I'll comply. Thanks in advance.

Mythx
Your not making any profit so unless you're passing them off as your own, I think it's ok.

[Baron]

Rich has stated on a number of occasions that he doesn't want people modifying his work. The creation of avatars are an example cited.

I think emoticons would fit into the same category. Please stop using them.

Baron Von Mod

[J_Muller]

Rich has stated on a number of occasions that he doesn't want people modifying his work. The creation of avatars are an example cited.

I think emoticons would fit into the same category. Please stop using them.

Baron Von Mod


Do you have Rich's input here? They've been around for months already, and as far as I know he's had no complaints.

[Zherog]

Wow. This is some serious thread necromancy....

[Silverhawk1o1]

ummm... i have a question...how do you create a custom avatar

[Renegade Paladin]

Either do it yourself or get someone else to do it for you. The ban is on using and altering the Giant's work, not on doing something yourself in the same style.

[Silverhawk1o1]

but, well it says that i need to type in the url for my custom avatar, how do i get the url, i dunno what it is

[YohanLeafheart]

but, well it says that i need to type in the url for my custom avatar, how do i get the url, i dunno what it is

A url is an address on the internet. You basically have to create your own file (or have someone make one to you) and store it in some location online and use that link as your avatar address.

[YohanLeafheart]

Rich has stated on a number of occasions that he doesn't want people modifying his work. The creation of avatars are an example cited.

I think emoticons would fit into the same category. Please stop using them.

Baron Von Mod



I think he was talking about the faces we use as smiles here. Using them, as they are is okay, isn't it? Which would be the case, if I understood correctly.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: This is some serious thread necromancy. Please don't post in threads older than six weeks that have fallen to page three or farther.

Second, it is a bizarre confluence of off-topicness. If you want someone to make you a custom avatar, check the Arts & Crafts forum. If you want to know how to get your custom avatar to show up on the site, ask in Board Issues.

Third, Rich has stated quite clearly that he does not authorize others to use OotS art as avatars, wallpaper, or whatever and that he does not authorize users to alter the avatar images.


Rich Burlew has specifically requested that people NOT use his OOTS art as avatar image, other than those he has specifically provided as the default message board avatars.
This has included taking the avatars provided here and using them on other forums. I can't imagine any reason why using the smilies/emoticons provided for this board would fall under a different rule. As Baron said, the unauthorized use of his intellectual property is forbidden, the avatars are given as an example.

If you are fan of the comic and/or Rich, I would suggest that you do as Baron says and stop using them. First, because it respects Rich's decision on how his creations are used. And second, because such use potentially dilutes his intellectual property interest.

[CharlieRock]

while everyon'es putting up their requests...

would it be alright for me to print out some avatars and use them as markers on our little map-grid-thingy? my DM tends to throw masses of kobolds at us, and your kobold is just cool. ;)


That, you can do. Point of fact, the stick figures BEGAN life as my cheap ass miniatures substitutes, and then became a comic. Someday, I'll put together a set for people to use in that way, too.
NOOooo! If you do that ,I'll have to use them. :biggrin:

[Fascisticide]

This has included taking the avatars provided here and using them on other forums. I can't imagine any reason why using the smilies/emoticons provided for this board would fall under a different rule. As Baron said, the unauthorized use of his intellectual property is forbidden, the avatars are given as an example.
But he was talking about using them for MSN, which is strictly personnal use and doesn't cause the images to appear on other sites of forums. Legally speaking, we have every right to to it, and I really don't see any reason why Rich would object to us using his smileys in our MSN conversations.

[Zherog]

Legally speaking, we have every right to to it,

No, you're quite mistaken. Legally, you have no right to do it. Rich owns the copyright, which gives him the right to determine how his art (or writing) is used.

[J_Muller]

See, I'm confused here, as we have no direct input from him, and he's had plenty of chances to speak up about forum users adapting his art into custom smilies for fan clubs and the like.

[Zherog]

I'm not really sure what's confusing. Along with the statement in the first post of this thread, and various other comments throughout this thread from both Rich and moderators, there's also this from the FAQ (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html):



Q: Can I repost one of the comic strips to another site? Can I alter the image and repost it?

A: Definitely not. The digital image of each strip is protected under copyright law, and reposting it or altering it without permission is going to almost always be a copyright violation. I need to be very careful with my intellectual property in order that I might be able to earn profit from my work.which in turn will allow me to create more of it. If I discover a site that is reusing my art, I will ask them to remove it, and I won.t feel bad about doing so.

So I'm not sure why you think Rich would be so vehement about other art, but not give a rat's hairy ass about the smilies.

[J_Muller]

Wow... cool off there. They've been in use for months now. I'd be surprised if he doesn't know. If he has objections, I would assume he'd have voiced them by now, and to my knowledge he hasn't. Therefore, I'm curious as to whether or not the policy applies to them.

[Kreistor]

The Giant has asked that you in general do not use his images for anything. I think it would be really nice of you to do what he asks, since he provides you with this really nice comic 3x per week absolutely free of charge. He's nice to you, so why not be nice to him in return?

[Rad]

Wow... cool off there. They've been in use for months now. I'd be surprised if he doesn't know. If he has objections, I would assume he'd have voiced them by now, and to my knowledge he hasn't.

Are you saying tat you expect him to patrol the whole internet, including all the MSN custom smilies, daily to make sure nobody is using his work just in case?
If you say "yes" then you should get maybe one comic each year considering how insanely time-consuming that would be. That would be more than a full time job!
He said it once and for all: Don't use anything. There is no good reason to ask him to repeat one thing he said many times just because you want to have it said to you personally.

[J_Muller]

Are you saying tat you expect him to patrol the whole internet, including all the MSN custom smilies, daily to make sure nobody is using his work just in case?
If you say "yes" then you should get maybe one comic each year considering how insanely time-consuming that would be. That would be more than a full time job!
He said it once and for all: Don't use anything. There is no good reason to ask him to repeat one thing he said many times just because you want to have it said to you personally.

...:smallconfused:When did MSN come into anything? I'm talking specifically about this board. If they're anywhere else, I certainly haven't seen them.

I'm certainly not doing anything like that anyway. I'm just pointing out that they've been around this board for a while, so if he has objections I'd be curious as to why he hasn't voiced them previously. If he has, I simply haven't heard it, and all anyone needs to do is direct me to where he has. I'm not requesting he single me out and repeat himself.

[Zherog]

Are you talking about these:

:durkon::xykon::elan::vaarsuvius::haley::thog:

And so on?

He created them, to use on this forum. Of course you can use them here.

[J_Muller]

Are you talking about these:

:durkon::xykon::elan::vaarsuvius::haley::thog:

And so on?

He created them, to use on this forum. Of course you can use them here.

No, I'm talking about the extra ones people have created: like those, but with other characters. Mr. Scruffy, the Snarl, and so on.

[Zherog]

I know Rich has previously that fan art of characters - as long as it's original (that is, not cut out from the comic) - was OK in his mind. Obviously, I can't say if that's still the case or not. However, considering there's a user with an avatar of Belkar tossing a dagger, I'm sort of lead to believe that it is still OK.

[DM Gumby]

That, you can do. Point of fact, the stick figures BEGAN life as my cheap ass miniatures substitutes, and then became a comic. Someday, I'll put together a set for people to use in that way, too.

That. Would. Be. AWESOME! *thumbs way up*

[berrew]

That. Would. Be. AWESOME! *thumbs way up*
I dread the day - because you KNOW (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0413.html) they would come in these annoying packs, you see... :smallbiggrin:

[BobTheFerret]

Not to be a downer, but you aren't supposed to post in threads over 6 weeks old. This one is... what, 2 months old?

If you'd like to discuss this, the rules suggest you make another thread.

Mod cleanup in aisle 12, please!

[BobTheDog]

Bob, the ferret? :smalleek:

I think I'm about to have an identity crisis...

[Dolohov]

Sheriff of Moddingham: This is some serious thread necromancy. Please don't post in threads older than six weeks that have fallen to page three or farther.

In this case it might be worth it to make a necromancy exception, since this thread is linked to from a stickied post (so unlike most old threads, it is still being read), and the questions raised here tend to elicit important-to-read responses from the mods.

[BobTheFerret]

Actually, I've used BobTheFerret as my userID on various other forums or online games for at least 3 years now. Nothing to do with your name, BobTheDog, really!

Also, the topic of the thread necromancy was about making an OOTS model set. Not exactly the main focus of the thread or a great and important reason. Definitely not one so important that it doesn't warrant a new, non-undead thread. This one belongs with Roy and Miko, I'm afraid.

[BobTheDog]

Actually, I've used BobTheFerret as my userID on various other forums or online games for at least 3 years now. Nothing to do with your name, BobTheDog, really!

I know, it just struck me as a weird coincidence.

Who's next? BobTheGnu? :smalltongue:

[Fabio_MP]

The Voice of Mod: OK, here's the thing:

I've posted it several places, but it still seems to be happening every day. Please do not alter, manipulate, recolor, or otherwise change the avatar images and reuse them, either on this board or any other. If you post such an avatar, I will ask you to remove it. The avatars are images that are copyrighted, and allowing them to be altered will only encourage others to do the same away from this board.

It's a pretty simple request, one that I have made on numerous different threads at various times. I'm asking everyone to please respect my wishes in this. Thanks.

ops sorry :(

I didn't know, I will put out my old illusionist and try to create a stick figure by myself....

[John Cribati]

What If I were to draw my own?

[Roland St. Jude]

What If I were to draw my own?

Sheriff of Moddingham: This thread is two years old. Please don't revive old threads. See the Forum Rules.

As for your question, you can draw your own for fun, but if you're drawing Rich's characters, be careful of what you do with them.