Transforming an improved familiar... help.

[Elvensilver]

So, my Witch (Archetype Pact-witch, pact with Nirvana) recently hit level 6 and gained

a) an improved familiar, a silvanshee agathion
b) a new patron spell - Infuse Self. (basically Alter Self, but you get the form of a native outsider, such as a tiefling, sylph, etc.)

So I was thinking... why not combine them? Cast Infuse Self on the familiar (possible due to Share Spells) and turn him into a native outsider, for example an aasimar to still stay habitually angelic.

I found no rules saying you can't turn your outsider familiar into a native outsider humanoid, but I still have so many questions how exactly that affects them...

- Supernatural abilites are said to be lost upon a polymorph-spell, but what happens to the agathion's spell-like abilites upon transformation?

- What about the Familiar abilities, such as Improved Evasion? I assume they stay? (There was a thread about polymorphing familiars and animal companions recently, but that was 3.5)

- The Silvanshee starts with Str. 3, Dex. 15. After transformation, this would be Str. 7 and Dex. 13. ( plus an additional + 2 size bonus on any one physical ability score due to the spell ) - am I calculating this right?

[Feantar]

Okay, my first try of applying pathfinder's weird polymorph logic:


Silvanshee [Infuse Self into Aasimar] CR 2

NG Medium outsider (agathion, extraplanar, good)
Init +5 6; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +10

DEFENSE

AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 10 (+1 2 Dex, +1 natural, +2 size)
hp 13 (2d10+2)
Fort +5, Ref +5 6, Will +2; +4 vs. poison
DR 5/evil or silver(DR is Supernatural (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Gamemastering/special-abilities/#TOC-Damage-Reduction:~:text=Some%20magic%20creatures%20have%2 0the%20supernatural%20ability%20to%20instantly%20h eal%20damage%20from%20weapons%20or%20ignore%20blow s%20altogether%20as%20though%20they%20were%20invul nerable.)... what?); Immune electricity, petrification; Resist cold 10, sonic 10; SR 13 Gain Resistance to Acid , Cold, or Electricity 5;

OFFENSE

Speed 30 ft., fly 90 ft. (good)
Melee bite +6 (1d3–4), 2 claws +6 (1d2–4)
Special Attacks heroic strength, pounce
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +3)

Constant—know direction, speak with animals
At will—dancing lights, prestidigitation, stabilize
1/day—dimension door (self plus 5 lbs. of objects only)
1/week—commune (6 questions, CL 12th)

STATISTICS

Str 7[3], Dex 13[15], Con 12, (Extreme Size Adjustment (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Magic/#Table-Ability-Adjustments-from-Size-Changes:~:text=If%20a%20polymorph%20spell%20is%20c ast%20on%20a%20creature%20that%20is%20smaller%20th an%20Small%20or%20larger%20than%20Medium%2C%20firs t%20adjust%20its%20ability%20scores%20to%20one%20o f%20these%20two%20sizes%20using%20the%20following% 20table%20before%20applying%20the%20bonuses%20gran ted%20by%20the%20polymorph%20spell.%20(see%20Table %3A%20Ability%20Adjustments%20from%20Size%20Change s))) +2 to any physical (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/infuse-self/#:~:text=You%20gain%20a%20%2B2%20size%20bonus%20to %20one%20physical%20ability%20score%20of%20your%20 choice) not Included. Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 13
Base Atk +Your BAB;
CMB Your BAB -2 STR +1 Dex +0 Size = ?
CMD 10 + Your BAB -2 STR +1 Dex +0 Size = ?
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse[SUP]B
Skills Acrobatics +10 11, Climb +9 7, Fly +1 6, Knowledge (arcana) +5, Knowledge (planes) +5, Perception +12 10, Stealth +10 19; Racial Modifiers +2 Diplomacy, +2 Perception +4 Acrobatics, +4 Perception, +4 Stealth
Languages Celestial, Draconic, Infernal; speak with animals, truespeech (Dependant on being an Agathion)
SQ cat’s luck, flight, lay on hands (1d6, 1/day, always as a 2nd-level paladin), spectral mist

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Cat’s Luck (Su)
A silvanshee adds its Charisma modifier as a luck bonus on all its saving throws. Once per day as a standard action, it can also grant this bonus to one ally within 30 feet for 10 minutes.

Heroic Strength (Su)
Once per day, a silvanshee can grant itself a +8 enhancement bonus to Strength for 1 minute.

Spectral Mist (Su)
A silvanshee can assume an eerie, mist-like form roughly the size and shape of a cat. This ability has the same effect as a gaseous form spell, except the silvanshee retains its own DR and supernatural abilities and can move at its normal speed. It can remain in mist form up to 5 minutes per day. This duration does not have to be consecutive, but it must be used in 1-minute increments.


Issues I could not deal with:

Speak with animals: Its stat block says it's spell-like, which means it is retained. The agathion subtype says it's supernatural, and therefore removed. Specific trumps general?
Cat’s Luck (Su): Doesn't feel like it's form dependent... It is effectively divine grace. Same with spectral Mist.
Familiar Adjustments: I think they should all be applied, as being a familiar is an addition, a buff effectively. If you had bull's strength on, I'd apply it on your polymorphed self as well. Same principle. Still, if we assume it isn't, the only things it should lose is Natural Armour, and Speak with animals of its kind. Nothing else feels form dependant.
Remember it shares your skill ranks, so the skills above might be wrong. Adjust Accordingly. Same with HP (though that doesn't change even if you add CON in PF, iirc)

[Elvensilver]

Thank you, Feantar, that was really helpful!

The spell doesn't say anything about size - would it be possible to turn the Silvanshee into either a small or a medium aasimar?

[Feantar]

Thank you, Feantar, that was really helpful!

The spell doesn't say anything about size - would it be possible to turn the Silvanshee into either a small or a medium aasimar?

You're welcome. :smallsmile:

My first instinct would be a no, since you cannot assume the form of templated creatures. But, technically, the Aasimar variants aren't templates. They are... something? I don't think there's a clear answer. As a DM I would allow it, because it's harmless (your familiar might get a +1 to AC, oh the humanity!), but be careful because it's a slippery slope from allowing that, to allowing a completely customised form in which you pick the most beneficial Alternate Racial Traits (skill bonuses & saves mostly).