How would you go about granting a Vampire cohort

[Max Caysey]

So, let’s assume for what ever reason that I wanted my cohort to become a vampire and subsequently a vampire lord.

Now clearly this might be very strong, but assuming you had a player who was adamant how would you - as a DM - go about letting. A player have his cohort become one?

Also, is there an LA on vampire and vampire lord or only a CR increase?

Cheers!

[ciopo]

I forgot the precise class and I'm not situated for doing a good search about it right now, but I remember there was either an iron chef "in recent years" that had a vampire cohort as a class feature.. it might have been a "thrall of something" or "disciple of something", but I really dont' remember

so... I suppose you could tell your player "here is a class that has exactly the thing you want" ? I kinda remember it specifically had some vampire underling. You could start form here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?648507-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CXXI) and search back

[Metastachydium]

Vampires have an LA of +8 and vampire spawns (as per LM) a +4. I'm not sure about vampire lords.

[Particle_Man]

It seems that a vampire lord has to have been a vampire for at least 100 years. So if you are planning on the cohort being a vampire and subsequently a vampire lord that might be something to keep in mind.

Probably the reason it has no LA is that between the +8 for “just” a vampire, the ten class levels, and the extra goodies for being a vampire lord, we are looking at an epic character.

How high level is the character whom the cohort is a cohort of?

[Troacctid]

I would use the vampire template class. https://web.archive.org/web/20211115093428/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a

This would allow the cohort to be a weaker version of a vampire who gradually gains access to the full suite of powers over time as the player levels up.

[Rynjin]

It seems that a vampire lord has to have been a vampire for at least 100 years. So if you are planning on the cohort being a vampire and subsequently a vampire lord that might be something to keep in mind.

It's okay the character is 99 years and 364 days old on creation.

[Telonius]

First thing, the Vampire Lord has to have some reason to know about the main PC. He doesn't just poof into existence 5 feet away one evening and say, "You seem like a fine fellow, person I just met. Would you mind if I drop all my plots and schemes and devote my un-life to helping you?" Maybe have a session or where they need to visit the vampire's mansion to help him out, get invited to a masquerade ball, something like that.

I'd have a look to see what the player's goals are, and if they'd be compatible with the goals of a vampire (or vampire lord). Work it in from there.

All the usual stuff with Cohorts applies - do they have a familiar, alignment issues (can't be opposed on either the law/chaos or good/evil axis), etc.



EDIT: May have misread this - the cohort is existing, and wants to become a vampire? That's ... possible. Cohort (which must be 5 levels) gets kidnapped and turned into a Vampire. PCs have to go rescue the cohort. They help out, and the Cohort rebels at the last second, dealing the finishing blow against the vampire. (This satisfies one of the requirements of Vampire Lord). Cohort is now a vampire, but has to wait 100 years before getting the Vampire Lord template (and has to jump through a few more hoops). At least a few of those hoops could actually be your Followers (from Leadership). Assorted Igors, servants, and hangers-on (for the low-level ones), low-level Vampire Spawn and Vampires (for the higher). Those also go towards satisfying the "10 vampires controlled" requirement of Vampire Lord.

[Jervis]

The easiest method is getting +149 to diplomacy check and find a vampire you can turn fanatical. No muss, no fuss, just brooding vampire fanboy/s because actually doing this in a game has a 0% chance of success

[H_H_F_F]

Cohorts are built using ECL, not CR. Which makes this the most sensible answer:


I would use the vampire template class. https://web.archive.org/web/20211115093428/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a

This would allow the cohort to be a weaker version of a vampire who gradually gains access to the full suite of powers over time as the player levels up.

[Crake]

It's okay the character is 99 years and 364 days old on creation.

Well, except the OP stipulates that the cohort will BECOME a vampire, not be an existing one.

Edit: I do second the vampire savage progression though. This will allow the cohort to slowly become a vampire over time without skyrocketing over ECL and thus no longer qualify for being a vampire. Vampire lord however is basically off the table, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, obviously, because the vampire needs to have been a vampire for 100 years, which isn't going to have been the case, and secondly, the vampire in question needs to have been responsible for their master's death, which I somehow don't see being the case in this circumstance, most likely the players will be the ones to kill his master, PROBABLY before he's even actually raised as a vampire. To actually have the cohort be turned, be under it's new master's control, and then plot with the players to kill it's new master, would all be a rather long term side story that not everyone would necessarily be interested in, and would detract from the main storyline. Plus, again, needs to be 100 years a vampire.

[Quertus]

Fast Time plane? Party dies (or gets turned to stone), and gets Resurrected (or de-petrified) 99 years later?

[Jervis]

Fast Time plane? Party dies (or gets turned to stone), and gets Resurrected (or de-petrified) 99 years later?

Alternatively have a sphinx send the vampire back in time

[redking]

You won't be able to make a vampire lord, at least according to the fluff. There are ways of making vampires.

You could get a cohort and use a magical item (forget what it's called but it exists) to turn your cohort into a vampire. Problem is that your cohort should resent what you've done and would probably stop being your cohort at the least.

Once you get your vampire cohort (somehow), it will be a long time before it goes up any levels due to LA.

Hopefully your PC is an evil cleric worshipping the god of (un) death, or some sort of evil cultist. This kind of character might be able to befriend a vampire of like mind and make it a cohort. Ultimately, ask your DM and don't be surprised if the DM says no.

[rel]

As a GM I woud need more information.

If the player looking for a hard to kill, powerful pet I'd probably homebrew something appropriate.

If want to deal with the logistics of smuggling coffins, kidnapping peasants, and spawn rebellions and don't mind their pet vamp skipping turns of combat doing a Bela Lugosi impression every time a random goblin waves a holy symbol at it I'd use the basic vampire rules and ECL. Possibly adjusted based on party power level.


If the player is looking for a cool roleplay experience as they are either slowly corrupted by or slowly redeem their fallen friend I'd again, homebrew something.

[ShurikVch]

Ritual of Vitality or Ritual of Unlearning (Savage Species): your Cohort must spend either enough XP to go up 8 levels (Vampire template LA; if your Cohort is a Dragon, somehow, - it would be 5 levels), or just lose 8 (or 5) levels; required caster of Cohort's new ECL, and payment is 1000xCLxECL gp ("DM should allow a character to pay this amount in stages" - 1000xCL gp at every level-up)
Sure, it would require your PC to be at least 20th level in order for the resulting Vampire to still qualify as Cohort (or 19th level - with Improved Cohort feat), but at least it would prevent your Cohort from skyrocketing past the maximal level threshold

[Crake]

Fast Time plane? Party dies (or gets turned to stone), and gets Resurrected (or de-petrified) 99 years later?

See my initial point about derailing the campaign for someone's corhort. Also, if a "cohort" has been separated for 100 years, and gone through several entire character arcs involving killing their vampire master, and becoming a terrifying force to be reckoned with... I somehow doubt they'd be interested in going back to being a cohort.

[Fizban]

For the thread title: I would ask them what "vampire" means, then make an appropriate vampire option for a cohort. If it was a PC I'd suggest Warlock, for which I have some vampire themed invocations, but alas I only allow cohorts to have NPC classes- though I suppose up to one approved PrC is mentioned in the change, so perhaps a prestige invoker with a narrowed pool focusing on vampire themed stuff instead. Such a cohort's leader would be under quite the scrutiny to ensure the combo was not overstepping compared to the other PCs.

For what seems to be the true question re: the MM1 Vampire template and. . . where/what even is Vampire Lord? Short answer no, long answer a whole bunch of reasons why no. Even if all they want is a "cool roleplay experience," a title like "Vampire Lord" suggests that said vampire is. . . a lord. Of vampires. Not a follower of whatever your PC is. It's inherently contradictory on top of everything else.

[Telonius]

For what seems to be the true question re: the MM1 Vampire template and. . . where/what even is Vampire Lord? Short answer no, long answer a whole bunch of reasons why no. Even if all they want is a "cool roleplay experience," a title like "Vampire Lord" suggests that said vampire is. . . a lord. Of vampires. Not a follower of whatever your PC is. It's inherently contradictory on top of everything else.

It was on the Wizards site. Available on Wayback here (https://web.archive.org/web/20170712160045/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a)

[Malphegor]

for people unaware, vampire lord is an LA0 template to make the honestly rather weird d&d vampires… More like Dracula. Immune to a fair chunk of their most strong weaknesses, and buffs to everything they do, and lets you get some of your old alignment back. Normal vampires are chaotic evil entirely. Vampire Lords can at least return to Lawful. Vampire Lords have style and chutzpah and probably wear fancy noble eveningwear with red silk lined capes as they brood from the balconies of castles.

[Metastachydium]

Normal vampires are chaotic evil entirely.

Um, no? They are "always Evil (any)" and if memory serves, one of the MM example vampires is a monk.

[Telonius]

Um, no? They are "always Evil (any)" and if memory serves, one of the MM example vampires is a monk.

That was one of the fiddly little changes between 3.0 and 3.5. In 3.0, they were "Always chaotic evil." (Which never made sense to me, given how many rules they had to follow).They changed it to Evil (any) in 3.5.

[loky1109]

for people unaware, vampire lord is an LA0 template
It isn't. It's 3.0 template and nave no LA at all. It isn't same thing.

[Metastachydium]

That was one of the fiddly little changes between 3.0 and 3.5. In 3.0, they were "Always chaotic evil." (Which never made sense to me, given how many rules they had to follow).They changed it to Evil (any) in 3.5.

I see, thanks! Honestly, the more I know about the "unworthy" bits of 3.0, the less I want to know about it.

[Remuko]

That was one of the fiddly little changes between 3.0 and 3.5. In 3.0, they were "Always chaotic evil." (Which never made sense to me, given how many rules they had to follow).They changed it to Evil (any) in 3.5.

i mean and even then "always" just means "like 95% of the time". no sentient creature in 3.0/3.5e has a mandated alignment, even aligned creatures like demons and devils (much to many players chagrin). If the creature has sentience/sapience its alignment can change, even if a template set it to something else for a while.

[Metastachydium]

If the creature has sentience/sapience its alignment can change, even if a template set it to something else for a while.

…and if it does not have that, barring certain anomalous instances, alignment defaults to neutral.

[icefractal]

Personally as a GM, I'd change the LA, because +8 is seriously excessive.

The thing that would be most powerful as a cohort would be Create Spawn, so if that was removed and Dominate was limited to one victim at a time, then I think using the CR instead (so +2) would be reasonable. Yeah, it's some pretty nice stat boosts and abilities, but it also means being four levels behind the PCs, and the weaknesses aren't trivial to work around.

Vampire Lord ... maybe turn it into a PrC which the cohort can take levels of once meeting the requirements? Which require being 10th level, so ECL 12 (with the adjustment above), so just enough time to take a 5-level PrC before max-ing out. At the point that's finished, the PCs are 19th level, so the features can be fairly powerful.

The existing Vampire Lord requirements seem ill-suited to this purpose. Maybe something like "diablerize an existing Vampire Lord" or "taste a god's / demigod's blood" or "find a blood-related artifact" would work better.

[ShurikVch]

The existing Vampire Lord requirements seem ill-suited to this purpose. Maybe something like "diablerize an existing Vampire Lord" or "taste a god's / demigod's blood" or "find a blood-related artifact" would work better.
How about the Master Vampire (Libris Mortis) and Lady/Lord of the Dead (https://web.archive.org/web/20070807215537/https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x)?
(Also, if Cohort is Evil, Lifedrinker from Book of Vile Darkness - for "free" daily Lesser Planar Ally)