So I committed to Barbarian/Druid

[elyktsorb]

And there actually hasn't been any combat in the game yet, woops.

In previous threads I'd stated my intention to do Totem or Beast Barbarian and Spore Druid. Since then I've actually swapped over to Zealot Barbarian because themes make me happy.


Additionally I'm also running it as doing 2Weapon Fighting because we got a free feat at first level for this game. (PAM was not allowed, and before I am asked, Alert, Observant, Lucky, and Sentinel were also not allowed ) So I took Dual Wielder! Also no variant human for 2 feats.

Current plan is to go to either 6, or 8 with Barbarian. 8 Would purely be for the ASI and would lose me fungal body from Druid, assuming this campaign goes till level 20, which is doubtful.

I also plan to level evenly, because I hate myself or something.

Additionally we got an inflated starting array of 16, 15, 14, 12, 10, 8

I picked a Stout Halfling as my race (because I like Halflings)

Stat's currently look like this after racial bonus of +2 +1

STR: 18
DEX: 12
CON: 16
INT: 8
WIS: 14
CHA: 10

Kind of considering swapping these around somewhat to make Con higher possibly. Non-metal armor restriction means I'm working with Unarmored Defense. And 2Weapon Fighting means I'm working without a Shield lol.

If I switch Con and Str I would have a net gain of 1 AC and a loss of 1 damage (which I'm less concerned about) and 1 to hit (slightly more worrying) I'd switch the Dex and Wis if I could lol

Gimmee ur thoughts on my silliness

[Rukelnikov]

If you wanna go unarmored, you may wanna consider prioritizing Dex over Str, something like:

12 / 18 / 16 / 8 / 14 / 10
AC 18 (from 15)
Damage: 1d8+4 (from 1d8+6 while raging)

You only lose a little bit of damage while raging, and gain 3 armor whether you are raging or not.

[elyktsorb]

If you wanna go unarmored, you may wanna consider prioritizing Dex over Str, something like:

12 / 18 / 16 / 8 / 14 / 10
AC 18 (from 15)
Damage: 1d8+4 (from 1d8+6 while raging)

You only lose a little bit of damage while raging, and gain 3 armor whether you are raging or not.

I need a 13 STR minimum for the multiclass, and since I similarly need 13 WIS for Druid, the only score I could switch is the CON and the STR

[Rukelnikov]

I need a 13 STR minimum for the multiclass, and since I similarly need 13 WIS for Druid, the only score I could switch is the CON and the STR

You are right... Thing is, you'll be stuck with AC 15 likely at least until lvl 8, since I imagine you'll use your lvl 7 ASI for Str, and if you bump Con at 8 AC will only go up to 16, which means you are gonna get hit a lot.

Attacks with +5 are gonna hit 55% of the time until AC 16, where it goes down to 50%, if you use Reckless attack it goes up to 80% and 75% respectively. And this could be a problem when you consider Symbiotic Entity's temp hp if you plan to be a front liner, its probably ok though if you plan to be a skirmisher.

Simbiotic Entity, on average, is giving you twice your level in temp HP, best case scenario your Rage cuts all damage in half, so you get about 4 hp/level, by level 8 that's 32 effective hp, so about 4 hits from minions or 2 hits from mid tier enemies.

I get the impression that if you activate Symbiotic Entity you will generally get to attack with the buff on for 1 turn at most, and sometimes it'll be taken off before your following turn. Which is not terrible actually, since trading your action for multiple enemies actions or a boss' action is generally ok, but it may be a bit frustrating not getting to actually use your druid shape.

If you are set on low Dex, I'd advise to take Mobility and play it as a skirmisher, go in, attack with your simbiotic buff on, and move out, you'd have a pretty good speed between Longstrider, Mobility, and Barb's Fast Movement, 55 speed usually quite good. Before getting Mobility, try to pick targets in the peripheria of the enemies to minimize incoming attacks. This playstyle tends to go well with aggresive subclasses like Zealot or Claw Beast which you mentioned.

For a Dex build, I'd probably consider something like this:

12(+1)/16(+2)/15/8/14/10

Use the lvls 7 and 8 ASIs to get a Dex or Con half feat and get your stats to 20 Dex 16 Con, that's 3 points of AC plus the half feat's benefit, and there are some decent ones (Crusher, Slasher, Piercer, or maybe even Second Chance to negate a crit per fight).

3 AC is a bit of a difference, against those same +5 attacks its lowering their chance to hit to 40%/35%, so dodging about 1 of every 3 would be hits. Against a powerful +10 attack mod, it turns 75% into 60%, or dodging about 1 every 5 would be hits, not as impactful, but could still be relevant.

[Sorinth]

Have you considered Standard Human, you could have this as your starting stats
Str: 13
Dex: 17
Con: 15
Int: 9
Wis: 16
Cha: 11

Which allows for the Dex based Barbarian. Even out the Dex/Con with your first ASI and you'll be in a pretty good spot.

In any case I would put Wis and Dex ahead of Con since as a Spore Druid you get a big HP buffer.

[Jak]

And there actually hasn't been any combat in the game yet, woops.

In previous threads I'd stated my intention to do Totem or Beast Barbarian and Spore Druid. Since then I've actually swapped over to Zealot Barbarian because themes make me happy.


Additionally I'm also running it as doing 2Weapon Fighting because we got a free feat at first level for this game. (PAM was not allowed, and before I am asked, Alert, Observant, Lucky, and Sentinel were also not allowed ) So I took Dual Wielder! Also no variant human for 2 feats.

Current plan is to go to either 6, or 8 with Barbarian. 8 Would purely be for the ASI and would lose me fungal body from Druid, assuming this campaign goes till level 20, which is doubtful.

I also plan to level evenly, because I hate myself or something.

Additionally we got an inflated starting array of 16, 15, 14, 12, 10, 8

I picked a Stout Halfling as my race (because I like Halflings)

Stat's currently look like this after racial bonus of +2 +1

STR: 18
DEX: 12
CON: 16
INT: 8
WIS: 14
CHA: 10

Kind of considering swapping these around somewhat to make Con higher possibly. Non-metal armor restriction means I'm working with Unarmored Defense. And 2Weapon Fighting means I'm working without a Shield lol.

If I switch Con and Str I would have a net gain of 1 AC and a loss of 1 damage (which I'm less concerned about) and 1 to hit (slightly more worrying) I'd switch the Dex and Wis if I could lol

Gimmee ur thoughts on my silliness

My first thought is that this is a neat character concept. The Spores circle focuses on undeath, and Zealot focuses on either avoiding death or making it less permanent.

This being said, I don't think Dex is all that important to this build. The barbarian chassis already has tools to deal with a lower Dex score, and because of Rage and the THP from Spores, I would be reckless attacking most of the time anyway.



If you were concerned about defense (which is valid, depending upon your campaign,) then you have a few options:


One, as you have mentioned, is the dual wielder feat. It's not the best boost to your defense, but it does pump your damage a little.

Another is, also as you have mentioned, to swap your Constitution and Strength Scores. This not only adds to your health, but also your AC as a barbarian, not to mention boosting a more common saving throw. All this, and 16 is still a respectable strength score with which to start.

The third option would be to take Toughness rather than Dual Wielder. The extra HP goes further as a barbarian, and noting this, maybe more Con would be enough for you rather than taking this feat.


Final thoughts:
I think this could be a fun build to play. If I were playing something like this, I would set the Con to 18 and live with a 16 in strength until I leveled up a bit. If I'm playing it like a barbarian, then I'll like having the extra HP and AC that I'm certainly not getting from druid.
Having your Con at 18 and taking the Dual Wielder feat puts your starting AC at 16 from level 1. Not bad, especially for a barbarian wearing only a loincloth, dirt, and sweat.
It gets better when you get THP, and more interesting buttons to press when you start into druid.

And remember, if this character does die, it's a good deal easier to resurrect him or her than other adventurers.



Yeah, don't let yourself get talked out of this. I would be excited to see this character at my table.

[Damon_Tor]

I feel like you'll have a better time with a fighter/druid for this concept. You'll be able to avoid the MADness by going all in in dex and ignoring str. And if you don't rely on rage you can lean on fun combat spells for battlefield control, heals, and buffs.

[elyktsorb]

My first thought is that this is a neat character concept. The Spores circle focuses on undeath, and Zealot focuses on either avoiding death or making it less permanent.


Ye, I really like the theme of being a spore druid and a zealot barbarian, taking the radiant attack from the zealot and having both necrotic and radiant damage. Having a grasp of undeath and life in the character is neat.

[Rilmani]

Ye, I really like the theme of being a spore druid and a zealot barbarian, taking the radiant attack from the zealot and having both necrotic and radiant damage. Having a grasp of undeath and life in the character is neat.

I’m mostly imagining the blood you spill or blood that is separated from you animating and lashing out at attackers. Time to go Swarmlord Ranger for a third class!

[Person_Man]

Its not a bad combination, as long as you just dip. 1-3ish levels of Barbarian for Rage, unarmored defense, and maybe an archetype ability. Or 2-3 levels of Druid for Wildshape, which is excellent for scouting, spying, flight, etc., and an archetype ability (a few of which give good wildshape alternatives if you prefer).

[Ogun]

Two weapon fighting let's you use weapons without the Light quality, so you could use a sheild as an improvised weapon,to bash.
This would drop your damage die from a d8 to a d4 and lower your chance to hit, but boost your AC by 2.
I'd imagine a human sized helmet, with the head still in it, would make for an appropriate sheild...

[elyktsorb]

Two weapon fighting let's you use weapons without the Light quality, so you could use a sheild as an improvised weapon,to bash.
This would drop your damage die from a d8 to a d4 and lower your chance to hit, but boost your AC by 2.
I'd imagine a human sized helmet, with the head still in it, would make for an appropriate sheild...

Hm. This is an interesting possibility. The damage die is negligible, if working properly, all of my melee weapon attacks will have a 1d6 rider on them. So +2 AC is likely quite worth it.

Problem is. Improvised weapons don't technically count as 'weapons' You can use them to make melee or ranged attacks, but they are not weapons. (At least, this is my current understanding)

And the feat Dual Wielder states "You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one-handed melee weapons you are wielding aren't light."

A shield is definitely not a melee weapon. It could be used as an improvised weapon, and make melee weapon attacks. So it's debatable if I would even be able to engage in two-weapon fighting if I'm not wielding two melee weapons in the first place.

I could probably ask and would likely be told I could do it, but I'm unsure if it just works outright without permission.

[Psyren]

The funny thing about Spores Druid's Symbiotic Entity that normally hurts it in multiclass builds is that you can only keep its damage bonus on your melee attacks going until the temporary hit points it grants you run out. So if you only dip a few levels in Spores Druid, as you go up in levels a single hit has good odds of disabling your damage feature and rendering it wasted; even when it takes more than one hit, it's very unlikely to make it the full 10 minute duration of the feature.

However - the wording of the ability ("until you lose all these temporary hit points") suggests the ability will only end early if you lose the temp HP it grants you. If however you had temp HP from another source when you activated SE - say for example, a race like the (Beasthide) Shifter - then you can choose to never get the temp HP from SE to begin with. Some DMs might rule that your SE never "turned on" in that case, but I personally would rule that since you never got those temp HP they can't be lost, and SE will last the full duration.

Alternatively, they can rule that the temp HP from your racial (which scale way better with a multiclass and can be refreshed with two bonus actions) need to run out first.

If your DM is on board with this trick, 2 levels of Spore Druid becomes a great dip on any melee builds that get a lot of attacks, like a monk, beast barbarian, or a TWF ranger.

[animorte]

-snip-

Yes to this entire thing. My Half-Orc single class Spores Druid (acting as Barbarian-ish) is quite beefy because there is no multi-class. It does reliable damage either way, but having a Twilight Cleric keeping the temp HP up is absurd.

Naturally having a Twilight Cleric on your team is bonkers no matter what, but any form of temp HP sustainability pairs well.

We’ve play-tested a flat 1 minute duration and that hasn’t hurt anything. Also note, this additional damage only applies to melee weapon attacks.

[elyktsorb]

However - the wording of the ability ("until you lose all these temporary hit points") suggests the ability will only end early if you lose the temp HP it grants you. If however you had temp HP from another source when you activated SE - say for example, a race like the (Beasthide) Shifter - then you can choose to never get the temp HP from SE to begin with. Some DMs might rule that your SE never "turned on" in that case, but I personally would rule that since you never got those temp HP they can't be lost, and SE will last the full duration.

Yeah, this was brought up on a previous thread I had, and I'll say the same here. When given new temp hp while you already have temp hp, you make the choice of which to keep, and it's very likely that's it's intended to mean, if you take a different source of temp hp, you are losing your other temp hp. So activating Symnbiotic Entity while you have other temp hp, and then choosing to lose the Symbiotic Entity temp hp, would count as losing all those temporary hit points.

Definitely something the DM would have to okay, not to mention I'm more interested in seeing if I can make it work without resorting to that. I want to see if it has legs without needing that sort of work around.

[animorte]

Definitely something the DM would have to okay, not to mention I'm more interested in seeing if I can make it work without resorting to that. I want to see if it has legs without needing that sort of work around.
That's true. The DM would need to allow the different sources of temp HP.

Honestly, the subclass itself is a solid addition being able to add a lot of versatility to the Barbarian's kit. Strictly speaking of the access to spells and Halo of Spores.

I've started Barbarian, multi-classing into something else primarily for a duelist build several times for no reason other than the combination of unarmored defense + a shield for awesome AC and Shield Master, being very hard to hit to begin with. Preventing you from taking damage in the first place could go a long way to keeping up that tiny amount of temp HP and the additional damage. Depending entirely on how the rest of your build goes, Symbiotic Entity itself may or may not provide a lot. That doesn't take away the valuable benefits of the spell access and Halo of Spores.

[Psyren]

Yeah, this was brought up on a previous thread I had, and I'll say the same here. When given new temp hp while you already have temp hp, you make the choice of which to keep, and it's very likely that's it's intended to mean, if you take a different source of temp hp, you are losing your other temp hp. So activating Symnbiotic Entity while you have other temp hp, and then choosing to lose the Symbiotic Entity temp hp, would count as losing all those temporary hit points.

Definitely something the DM would have to okay, not to mention I'm more interested in seeing if I can make it work without resorting to that. I want to see if it has legs without needing that sort of work around.

I didn't choose to "lose" anything though; I chose to keep the temp HP I already had previously.
I agree the DM would need to okay this interpretation, but I wanted to be clear about the order of operations here.

As for whether it can work without that... I mean, this is 5e, you'd have to try really hard to make something that can't work.

[elyktsorb]

As for whether it can work without that... I mean, this is 5e, you'd have to try really hard to make something that can't work.

I mean it's not going to be abysmal, but you know, you want it to at least perform somewhat decently.

[animorte]

I mean it's not going to be abysmal, but you know, you want it to at least perform somewhat decently.

It does. Basically think about it a little like a full spell caster dipping. You get that extra spell level one level later, except in this case it’s your extra attack or other feature, etc.

You still have the additional damage from halo, which scales damage with level, not Druid level. And chill touch is a sweet ranged option to always have, not to mention other useful low level spells.

It’s just that SE uses your action to get going, not always the best method when in under dire circumstances.