So what monkey are Vanara supposed to resemble?

[Gavinfoxx]

Title says it all. What type of monkey are they supposed to look like?

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm not sure there's any specific monkey they're going for. Their description really only mentions some different fur colors. Perhaps there's a lot of variation between different sub-groups?

I think it's left open for individual players to model their character after a certain kind of monkey if they want to.

Like, if you asked what kind of cats a Catfolk are supposed to resemble, I'd also answer "any kind you want."

[Biggus]

The original Indian legendary creature didn't look like anything in particular (the old picture of them on Wikipedia has them looking like lots of different types). But I assume you mean the OA race, in which case I'd guess a Japanese macaque, based on the Shaman picture and the fact that OA is more based on Japanese culture than anywhere else.

[KillianHawkeye]

The original Indian legendary creature didn't look like anything in particular (the old picture of them on Wikipedia has them looking like lots of different types). But I assume you mean the OA race, in which case I'd guess a Japanese macaque, based on the Shaman picture and the fact that OA is more based on Japanese culture than anywhere else.

I assumed he meant the Pathfinder race, but if it exists in other games/editions that certainly expands upon the possibilities.

[Gavinfoxx]

I assumed he meant the Pathfinder race, but if it exists in other games/editions that certainly expands upon the possibilities.

The race in Pathfinder and in 3.5e in OA. It's the same race for both contexts.

[Ramza00]

Title says it all. What type of monkey are they supposed to look like?

They are a word that comes from two of the oldest Hindu epics (Ramayana and Mahabharata), and thus their stories are 2700 years old perhaps more. And there are newer stories besides the older Sanskrit ones.

Historians can not even agree what the word means, there are 3 different possible word origins (etymologies)

Vanara thus as art, have many forms of "representations" over the centuries depending on the storytellers. It is not fixed, it is multiplicity. Especially since in the Ramayana says they are shapechangers :smallsmile:

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So no right or wrong answer, I would search Wikipedia and Google Images. In the Ramayana version of the story they have longer sideburns / beards but no hair at the chin or mustache.

[Gavinfoxx]

They are a word that comes from two of the oldest Hindu epics (Ramayana and Mahabharata), and thus their stories are 2700 years old perhaps more. And there are newer stories besides the older Sanskrit ones.

Historians can not even agree what the word means, there are 3 different possible word origins (etymologies)

Vanara thus as art, have many forms of "representations" over the centuries depending on the storytellers. It is not fixed, it is multiplicity. Especially since in the Ramayana says they are shapechangers :smallsmile:

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So no right or wrong answer, I would search Wikipedia and Google Images. In the Ramayana version of the story they have longer sideburns / beards but no hair at the chin or mustache.



*sighs*...

What monkey are they in the art in Oriental Adventures and in whatever book Pathfinder has them as?

[Rynjin]

*sighs*...

What monkey are they in the art in Oriental Adventures and in whatever book Pathfinder has them as?

Shockingly in official art they are also depicted as several different types of monkey due to the fact that they are based on a mythological creature with many different interpretations over the centuries. The only consistent feature is that with the exception of the Whitecape Vanara (which are modeled on baboons), standard Vanara are all "jungle dwelling" monkeys.

This runs the gamut of everything from spider monkeys to howler monkeys and beyond.

Official art even varies on how monkey-like they are in the first place. Some look like humans with sideburns and hairy palms, others are basically just big monkeys with a human posture.

[Biggus]

Shockingly in official art they are also depicted as several different types of monkey due to the fact that they are based on a mythological creature with many different interpretations over the centuries. The only consistent feature is that with the exception of the Whitecape Vanara (which are modeled on baboons), standard Vanara are all "jungle dwelling" monkeys.

This runs the gamut of everything from spider monkeys to howler monkeys and beyond.

Official art even varies on how monkey-like they are in the first place. Some look like humans with sideburns and hairy palms, others are basically just big monkeys with a human posture.

Is this PF you're talking about?

[Rynjin]

Is this PF you're talking about?

Correct. In the ARG they're like little white monkeys. In 2e they're like humans with sideburns. There are depictions of everything in between.

[aglondier]

Correct. In the ARG they're like little white monkeys. In 2e they're like humans with sideburns. There are depictions of everything in between.

So I guess it comes down to...how monkeylike do you want it to be? You have guidelines and generalizations, now you decide on specifics that suit you and how you imagine the character...

[Biggus]

Correct. In the ARG they're like little white monkeys. In 2e they're like humans with sideburns. There are depictions of everything in between.

Gotcha. I just Googled vanara Pathfinder and some of the pictures look like Japanese macaques (a couple even more so than the OA Shaman) but there are lots of others, some in an Indian style and some which just look generally oriental without referencing any specific species or tradition I'm aware of.

[Rynjin]

Gotcha. I just Googled vanara Pathfinder and some of the pictures look like Japanese macaques (a couple even more so than the OA Shaman) but there are lots of others, some in an Indian style and some which just look generally oriental without referencing any specific species or tradition I'm aware of.

The two main pieces of Vanara art are these:


1e Advanced Race Guide:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/realm-of-midgard/images/a/a5/Vanara.png/revision/latest?cb=20150601195117

2e (some bestiary I'm not sure they're not a player race in 2e apparently):
https://2e.aonprd.com/Images/Monsters/Vanara.png

There are other official images somewhere I'm sure, but these are the two "intro" art pieces for the respective additions.

[icefractal]

*sighs*...
Why the rude attitude? That was a legitimate answer, and more informative than most. If you want answers for a specific product (or two, PF and OA aren't necessarily the same), then say so in the OP.

And for that matter, it turns out to be true in those contexts as well. :P

[Biggus]

Why the rude attitude? That was a legitimate answer, and more informative than most. If you want answers for a specific product (or two, PF and OA aren't necessarily the same), then say so in the OP.


The post immediately above that one was Gavinfoxx saying "I meant in PF and OA". At that point there was a grand total of five posts in the thread including the OP, it's hardly unfair to expect somebody to read those before replying.

[Ramza00]

The post immediately above that one was Gavinfoxx saying "I meant in PF and OA". At that point there was a grand total of five posts in the thread including the OP, it's hardly unfair to expect somebody to read those before replying.

And the posts were only a few minutes apart. Can we drop this? :smallsmile:

We understand what Gavinfoxx meant now. And the question has been answered.

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I will repeat as part of good product "design" pathfinder and a lesser extent WOTC's OA was not trying to nail down to a specific monkey in appearance. This is because a Monkey person is a common myth / archetype. For example The Monkey King / Sun Wukong* and more recently Son Goku.

Creating a race that is flexible enough that it can be used for dozens of ideas is the point of the system.

* Sun Wokong is a Chinese myth, and it is debated / contested if there is a connection with the earlier Vanara since there was active trade routes but also religious spread and thus mythical syncretism

[Jay R]

If they are supposed to resemble monkeys, then the Vanara in your world should resemble the monkeys in your world.

[Biggus]

And the posts were only a few minutes apart. Can we drop this? :smallsmile:


Ah, you didn't see Gavinfoxx's reply until after you'd posted? In that case, my apologies.