Has Anyone Ever Begotten A Bogun?

[Palanan]

First introduced in Masters of the Wild, the spell Beget Bogun allows you to create a bogun, although I can’t imagine why anyone would.

Has anyone ever used this spell—and the bogun it creates—in an actual game? Was the bogun remotely useful, or did it collapse into mulch at the first opportunity?

[Saintheart]

My fellow Australians on this forum will attest to the fact that boguns are both common and celebrated. :smallcool:

[pabelfly]

My fellow Australians on this forum will attest to the fact that boguns are both common and celebrated. :smallcool:

Summoning materials are a slab of beer and a pack of cigarettes.

[Jervis]

Seems like a decent scout. 500 yards is a pretty good distance for telapathic contact. You can send it into anything knowing that the worst case scenario is 2d10 damage.

[Quertus]

Absolutely been used. And a… derivative creature created and used, too.

I would say, “the GM gave it a GM pity artifact to let it keep up at high levels”, but that was actually entirely the player who did so. And… not seemingly out of a desire to let it keep up, just as a “it’s what my character would do” kind of thing.

The derivative creature was more fluff than anything (like followers from Leadership) - the Charisma check was to get them to come with rather than to go away - by default, they lazed around “back at base”.

[Fizban]

It's a Homunculus with some naturey restrictions a failure chance comparable to a combat character with maxed out attack bonus, the same way Wood Wose is Unseen Servant with some naturey restrictions. It doesn't even require Craft Construct or cost any money (it does take a week instead of a day, but no one ever seems to care about crafting times) or for you to learn specific spells you might not have wanted, so I imagine the main reasons people don't use them aside from not knowing they exist, are because their Druids don't take Craft Wondrous, or they find the tiny chance of failure on a free minion offensive to their sensibilities.

The reason you make a Homunculus is for scouting and keeping watch with a permanent telepathic link.

[Skysaber]

I use them all of the time. A source of near-infinite, near free labor? You bet I use them!

Nothing better for taking care of the extensive gardens of a large manor... or for making those gardens in the first place.

If you are a druid able to make a bogun, you likely have quite a lot of skills sunk into things that are natural - skills that those boguns then get to use as their own. So your boguns would make for infinitely better servants tending your yard/orchards/vineyards/etc than any random peasants would.

And have you seen the cost accounting for running a manor? It's insanely expensive, but practically all of that cost is sunk into servants to keep the whole thing maintained and running.

But where does your primary income come from? Unlike what us moderns would expect, it's not from taxes. It's from collecting rents and the profit from your businesses.

What businesses? Mostly farm products. Farms whose profit depends almost entirely on how good your labor pool is, and most serfs don't really care. But your bogun does.

Even in the wild, boguns make for great scouts. They'll help set up and break down camps, care for the horses, pick herbs to help season the dinner they'll cook, and so on.

Yeah, sure, there is not much game advantage to having them. But from a "if this were real" perspective? They'd add to your quality of life like nothing else.

Take ranks of Heal and they'll be your doctor, nurses, midwives and vet all rolled into one.

Take ranks in Handle Animal and they'll manage your sheep, goats, pigs, chickens, collect eggs, run cattle, and even sheer and slaughter them when the time comes.

Take ranks in Spot and/or Listen and never be surprised when a thief tries to sneak onto your property again!

Oh, and I once lived next to vast fields, and you know what is a 'natural product'? Cotton, for one. There used to be small clouds of it drifting about like tumbleweeds in the wind after harvest season. So I like to gather some of that together, and sew boguns that look (and sounds, and act) like various muppets...

EDIT: In Kingmaker, our DM was generous and allowed us to to make boguns in various shapes. So this bush, that potted plant, that clump of raspberry vines, a tree stump, the other tree limb, were all boguns keeping watch against assassins on the king's family.

Lots to be said for sentries with high ranks in Perception, that never get bored or rebellious. And you pick the outer shape yourself, so picking something that blends into the environment seems reasonable.

And while they suck in combat as-is, they can be a source of extra actions for things like Javalins of Lightning, or a Necklace of Fireballs, where the wielder's skill does not matter.

Or even at base minimum where they are just following around at your heels, ready to follow certain pre-arranged commands to pick you up and carry you to safety should you fall, feed you a healing potion, bind your wounds, etc. And if your DM does not allow unconscious and/or dying folks to drink potions, Keotom's ointment. It makes things less urgent for the party's healer.

Or think Golf Caddy. Here comes a monster and you don't have time to draw your weapon? He does. Or if you need to switch from your bow to your sword? You drop one, he hands you the other, then picks up and stows the one you'd dropped.

Or if you want to throw flaming oil and don't have time to light it, he does.

They are also pretty good with the Benign Transposition spell. Give him an item that does that and he can transpose with you on command, to get you out of danger, or just to reposition to a better angle.

You can always think of extra uses for more actions in combat. They can fish through your backpack for you, keep the horses steady while you go in the cave, fly up to the top of a wall and tie the grapnel so you can climb out...

Insanely useful.

Think of it like this: You may be Batman, and they're not Robin... but they can and certainly would do a good job as Alfred.

[TiaC]

I've never actually made one, but I've bought scrolls for an Artificer to turn into crafting XP.

[Mordante]

I use them all of the time. A source of near-infinite, near free labor? You bet I use them!

Nothing better for taking care of the extensive gardens of a large manor... or for making those gardens in the first place.

If you are a druid able to make a bogun, you likely have quite a lot of skills sunk into things that are natural - skills that those boguns then get to use as their own. So your boguns would make for infinitely better servants tending your yard/orchards/vineyards/etc than any random peasants would.

And have you seen the cost accounting for running a manor? It's insanely expensive, but practically all of that cost is sunk into servants to keep the whole thing maintained and running.

But where does your primary income come from? Unlike what us moderns would expect, it's not from taxes. It's from collecting rents and the profit from your businesses.

What businesses? Mostly farm products. Farms whose profit depends almost entirely on how good your labor pool is, and most serfs don't really care. But your bogun does.

Even in the wild, boguns make for great scouts. They'll help set up and break down camps, care for the horses, pick herbs to help season the dinner they'll cook, and so on.

Yeah, sure, there is not much game advantage to having them. But from a "if this were real" perspective? They'd add to your quality of life like nothing else.

Take ranks of Heal and they'll be your doctor, nurses, midwives and vet all rolled into one.

Take ranks in Handle Animal and they'll manage your sheep, goats, pigs, chickens, collect eggs, run cattle, and even sheer and slaughter them when the time comes.

Take ranks in Spot and/or Listen and never be surprised when a thief tries to sneak onto your property again!

Oh, and I once lived next to vast fields, and you know what is a 'natural product'? Cotton, for one. There used to be small clouds of it drifting about like tumbleweeds in the wind after harvest season. So I like to gather some of that together, and sew boguns that look (and sounds, and act) like various muppets...

EDIT: In Kingmaker, our DM was generous and allowed us to to make boguns in various shapes. So this bush, that potted plant, that clump of raspberry vines, a tree stump, the other tree limb, were all boguns keeping watch against assassins on the king's family.

Lots to be said for sentries with high ranks in Perception, that never get bored or rebellious. And you pick the outer shape yourself, so picking something that blends into the environment seems reasonable.

And while they suck in combat as-is, they can be a source of extra actions for things like Javalins of Lightning, or a Necklace of Fireballs, where the wielder's skill does not matter.

Or even at base minimum where they are just following around at your heels, ready to follow certain pre-arranged commands to pick you up and carry you to safety should you fall, feed you a healing potion, bind your wounds, etc. And if your DM does not allow unconscious and/or dying folks to drink potions, Keotom's ointment. It makes things less urgent for the party's healer.

Or think Golf Caddy. Here comes a monster and you don't have time to draw your weapon? He does. Or if you need to switch from your bow to your sword? You drop one, he hands you the other, then picks up and stows the one you'd dropped.

Or if you want to throw flaming oil and don't have time to light it, he does.

They are also pretty good with the Benign Transposition spell. Give him an item that does that and he can transpose with you on command, to get you out of danger, or just to reposition to a better angle.

You can always think of extra uses for more actions in combat. They can fish through your backpack for you, keep the horses steady while you go in the cave, fly up to the top of a wall and tie the grapnel so you can climb out...

Insanely useful.

Think of it like this: You may be Batman, and they're not Robin... but they can and certainly would do a good job as Alfred.

So the best way to kill you would be to kill a few dozen of your Boguns?

[Skysaber]

So the best way to kill you would be to kill a few dozen of your Boguns?

Custom magic items are a thing. A magical surge protector so you don't take backlash is something anyone even vaguely familiar with computers ought to consider reasonable, and inexpensive.

Homebrew to fix things the designers ought to have done is common as dirt. And allowing good, useful content to be locked behind one designer's mistake is, itself, a mistake.

Or if you want to be pedantic, go for Delay Death. Either way, the fix is in.

[Quertus]

I use them all of the time. A source of near-infinite, near free labor? You bet I use them!

Nothing better for taking care of the extensive gardens of a large manor... or for making those gardens in the first place.

If you are a druid able to make a bogun, you likely have quite a lot of skills sunk into things that are natural - skills that those boguns then get to use as their own. So your boguns would make for infinitely better servants tending your yard/orchards/vineyards/etc than any random peasants would.

And have you seen the cost accounting for running a manor? It's insanely expensive, but practically all of that cost is sunk into servants to keep the whole thing maintained and running.

But where does your primary income come from? Unlike what us moderns would expect, it's not from taxes. It's from collecting rents and the profit from your businesses.

What businesses? Mostly farm products. Farms whose profit depends almost entirely on how good your labor pool is, and most serfs don't really care. But your bogun does.

Even in the wild, boguns make for great scouts. They'll help set up and break down camps, care for the horses, pick herbs to help season the dinner they'll cook, and so on.

Yeah, sure, there is not much game advantage to having them. But from a "if this were real" perspective? They'd add to your quality of life like nothing else.

Take ranks of Heal and they'll be your doctor, nurses, midwives and vet all rolled into one.

Take ranks in Handle Animal and they'll manage your sheep, goats, pigs, chickens, collect eggs, run cattle, and even sheer and slaughter them when the time comes.

Take ranks in Spot and/or Listen and never be surprised when a thief tries to sneak onto your property again!

Oh, and I once lived next to vast fields, and you know what is a 'natural product'? Cotton, for one. There used to be small clouds of it drifting about like tumbleweeds in the wind after harvest season. So I like to gather some of that together, and sew boguns that look (and sounds, and act) like various muppets...

EDIT: In Kingmaker, our DM was generous and allowed us to to make boguns in various shapes. So this bush, that potted plant, that clump of raspberry vines, a tree stump, the other tree limb, were all boguns keeping watch against assassins on the king's family.

Lots to be said for sentries with high ranks in Perception, that never get bored or rebellious. And you pick the outer shape yourself, so picking something that blends into the environment seems reasonable.

And while they suck in combat as-is, they can be a source of extra actions for things like Javalins of Lightning, or a Necklace of Fireballs, where the wielder's skill does not matter.

Or even at base minimum where they are just following around at your heels, ready to follow certain pre-arranged commands to pick you up and carry you to safety should you fall, feed you a healing potion, bind your wounds, etc. And if your DM does not allow unconscious and/or dying folks to drink potions, Keotom's ointment. It makes things less urgent for the party's healer.

Or think Golf Caddy. Here comes a monster and you don't have time to draw your weapon? He does. Or if you need to switch from your bow to your sword? You drop one, he hands you the other, then picks up and stows the one you'd dropped.

Or if you want to throw flaming oil and don't have time to light it, he does.

They are also pretty good with the Benign Transposition spell. Give him an item that does that and he can transpose with you on command, to get you out of danger, or just to reposition to a better angle.

You can always think of extra uses for more actions in combat. They can fish through your backpack for you, keep the horses steady while you go in the cave, fly up to the top of a wall and tie the grapnel so you can climb out...

Insanely useful.

Think of it like this: You may be Batman, and they're not Robin... but they can and certainly would do a good job as Alfred.


So the best way to kill you would be to kill a few dozen of your Boguns?


Custom magic items are a thing. A magical surge protector so you don't take backlash is something anyone even vaguely familiar with computers ought to consider reasonable, and inexpensive.

Homebrew to fix things the designers ought to have done is common as dirt. And allowing good, useful content to be locked behind one designer's mistake is, itself, a mistake.

Or if you want to be pedantic, go for Delay Death. Either way, the fix is in.

There’s a (probably named) Playground meme, “just because you can fix it doesn’t mean it’s not broken”. That said, Druid have healing, and ought to have high Con, so they’d have to kill a lot at once to kill you, and “someone’s killing my Bogun” is a good way to put you on alert.

My question is, how does “tree branch” the organic security camera report what he’s seen before the assassins kill the king? As cool as the idea sounds, it feels like their assistance would be Epimethian, reporting on what they saw only after the king is already dead.

[Maat Mons]

I’m not sold on boguns for household chores. If you go more than 500 yards from home, they’ll all stop what they’re doing and try to follow you.

If you’re going to homebrew something, I’d try to make it competitive with animating skeletons.

[Eldan]

I've used them for NPCs. Quite similarly to what Skysaber mentioned. Reclusive druid in a grove with a few dozen tiny plant servants to keep care of him made a lot of sense.

[Kalkra]

The 3.5 update hit them hard, with Control Plants becoming an 8th-level spell instead of 4th.

[Quertus]

I’m not sold on boguns for household chores. If you go more than 500 yards from home, they’ll all stop what they’re doing and try to follow you.

If you’re going to homebrew something, I’d try to make it competitive with animating skeletons.

Iirc, you get a Charisma or Diplomacy check or something to have them keep working. And 500 yards is a decent distance while you’re in the manor. But, yeah, if you want good upkeep while you’re gone, you’ll need to make “more than enough”, to take up the slack for the slackers that stop working once the boss leaves.

[Jack_Simth]

Iirc, you get a Charisma or Diplomacy check or something to have them keep working. And 500 yards is a decent distance while you’re in the manor. But, yeah, if you want good upkeep while you’re gone, you’ll need to make “more than enough”, to take up the slack for the slackers that stop working once the boss leaves.

The check is for any order. 5% chance of needing it on anything. The clause about staying within 500 yards isn't related.


I’m not sold on boguns for household chores. If you go more than 500 yards from home, they’ll all stop what they’re doing and try to follow you.

If you’re going to homebrew something, I’d try to make it competitive with animating skeletons.

You'll need real help for your base when you're away, yes, but if you can make the DC 11 check reliably, they're good for it while you are local.

But yes, you'll need a house sitter while you are away.


Let's see... Homunculus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/homunculus.htm) vs. Bogun (Spell Compendium)....
Homunculus has 1 more point of strength, 2 more of Int; Bogun has one more point of dex, 1 of wis, and 3 of Cha.
Lightning Reflexes vs. Stealthy for their feat.
Homunculus has the better poison (DC 13 Sleep vs. DC 11 dex damage)
Bogun is much cheaper (25 xp vs. 1050 gp and 78 xp)
Bogun has a failure chance (which drops to nothing if you invest in Diplomancy at all), Homunculus doesn't.
Homunculus is faster to make (two days vs. 1 week)
Homunculus can be made earlier (with the user of scrolls, wands, or similar: requires 4th vs. 7th, although the Homonculous requires a 4th level spell to craft)
Bogun has easier requirements (one common feat - Craft Wondrous - a 1st level Druid spell; vs. Craft Construct (and it's requirements, Craft Wondrous and Craft Magic Arms and Armor) and three spells, one of which is 4th level...)
Homunculus can be crafted stronger (extra hit dice).
Homunculus has more support (variations with other uses).

Same distance, same destruction penalty, either can be used as remote eyes, both have the same HD, HP, and movement.

You're generally not going to use either in battle, but they make handy scouts (they're permanent scrying sensors without being divination). Hmm. Which is better....

[Inevitability]

Boguns have flight, and unlike the traditional druidic means of flight (wild shape, animal companion) retain opposable thumbs. There's probably a fair number of alchemical items that you could have it drop down. Carrying capacity is low, but still enough to carry several vials of acid, alchemist's fire, or whatever else you feel like dropping. Just keep the boguns in a bag of holding while you're not using them: no sense in losing XP on unimportant fights. Heroes of battle has rules for dropping objects!

[Jack_Simth]

Boguns have flight, and unlike the traditional druidic means of flight (wild shape, animal companion) retain opposable thumbs. There's probably a fair number of alchemical items that you could have it drop down. Carrying capacity is low, but still enough to carry several vials of acid, alchemist's fire, or whatever else you feel like dropping. Just keep the boguns in a bag of holding while you're not using them: no sense in losing XP on unimportant fights. Heroes of battle has rules for dropping objects!

What are their odds of surviving a single CL 10 fireball?

[Maat Mons]

I think boguns in a Bag of Holding would count as being more than 500 yards away. That would mean they wouldn't go willingly.

[Inevitability]

What are their odds of surviving a single CL 10 fireball?

Simple: don't get enough boguns out at the same time to make that the obvious correct action.

If a single bogun is dropping flasks all combat and doesn't get shot down, that's a net benefit. If a foe wastes a turn casting Fireball at mostly-empty air, that's also a net benefit, even if it comes at the cost of 25 XP and a dozen or so hit points. Up to 10d6 damage to most of the party is a significant amount to be redirecting! That's why I mentioned multiple boguns: so you can replace one if it gets shot down. I didn't mean to imply you should have all of them fly around at once.

[Mordante]

Custom magic items are a thing. A magical surge protector so you don't take backlash is something anyone even vaguely familiar with computers ought to consider reasonable, and inexpensive.

Homebrew to fix things the designers ought to have done is common as dirt. And allowing good, useful content to be locked behind one designer's mistake is, itself, a mistake.

Or if you want to be pedantic, go for Delay Death. Either way, the fix is in.

Why consider it a mistake? It just makes you think more about using the spell.

[Feantar]

I think boguns in a Bag of Holding would count as being more than 500 yards away. That would mean they wouldn't go willingly.

That would only apply when the bag closed. Before, it is clearly within (if you are the one holding the bag) 5 feet. As in, I can draw a line connecting the bogun inside the open bag, to yourself, and it's length is less than 5 feet (probably). And by the time you close the bag, it will panic, but it's already away. Extraplanar space madness (Now you're thinking with portals:P) !