A Small Heist [5e] OOC

[J-H]

Player
Character
Race
Class


Pyrophilios
Barit the Pretender (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2692656)
Half Elf
Warlock (Djinni Blade)


Xav
Raevis (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2692908)
Human
Druid (Moon)


Frendle
Breddo Toothwise (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2693870)
Orc
Fighter (EK)


BobtheWizard
Clip - Calliope Pascia (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2696769)
High Elf
Artificer (Armorer)

[J-H]

This module assumes that the party has already worked together before as a group, and is in a major city after a successful and somewhat news-worthy adventure. Let's say Waterdeep for now, just because it isn't in the process of falling into the Abyss or freezing in winter or whatever else is going on along the Sword Coast.

[Pyrophilios]

Yey,
Looking forward to it - hopefully there aren't too many true- and blindsight creatures in this module 😄

[Pyrophilios]

History check to know anything about Olivier Sandalwood

[roll0]

[J-H]

Your character doesn't recognize the name.

I've PM'd Frendle. Lord of Gifts hasn't been on the forums in over a week, so I'm assuming that Sauron has dropped, and have invited Bob the Wizard.

[Frendle]

So sorry, I missed the start but I am here.

[Bobthewizard]

Hi everyone. I'm Bob and I'll be playing Clip, a elven wand slinger and burglar. Excited to be a part of this story.

[Frendle]

I like the Character summery you guys have on your posts, but I can't get my image to size down, how'd you do that?

[Pyrophilios]

You can quote my post - there you should find all the formating code - just be careful to only exchange the urls :smallsmile:
Especially the image should have a "120" as wide in it.

[Bobthewizard]

Arcana [roll0]

[J-H]

The portable hole will be folded and not shrunken.

"If we are only 1/2" tall, how do you propose we get the book off the shelf and into a miniature portable hole? We couldn't even lift a book at that size."
Great question! I assumed you could position the hole under it and then move the book so it falls into the hole, but I'm not sure how you'd move the book. Any thoughts on how to do this without introducing any other suspiciously specific magic items or spells?

[Frendle]

At 1/2 inch, what size category will we be?

A tiny creature with 20 str can lift 250 pounds. Sprite at 1 foot are tiny according to MM.

[J-H]

1/2" is below tiny. I don't think 5e has size categories for it.

[Frendle]

1/2" is below tiny. I don't think 5e has size categories for it.

Well, Tiny seems to be 1/6th of a Medium creature at 6'.

So 1/6th of 12" is 2"

and 1.2" is 1/4 of 2"

So halving each time (Which is the pull/push/lift rule Medium to tiny) means at 1/2" a 20 str might be able to lift 62.5 pounds.

Dunno if that makes sense in this case.

EDIT: How much will we weigh at 1/2"? A proportional amount, or our regular amount? (Like ant man :) )

[Bobthewizard]

I would guess that it rescales the whole game. 1/2" will be medium. 2-3" would be large, a mouse might be huge, and a cat gargantuan.

[J-H]

I would guess that it rescales the whole game. 1/2" will be medium. 2-3" would be large, a mouse might be huge, and a cat gargantuan.

Yes, that's exactly what I've done with the minor vermin :)

A 12" x 2" tome of boring lineages is going to be, relatively, 96' H x 20' W, with a relative weight measured in tons.

[Frendle]

Yes, that's exactly what I've done with the minor vermin :)

A 12" x 2" tome of boring lineages is going to be, relatively, 96' H x 20' W, with a relative weight measured in tons.

Well, so much for me pushing it :)

Maybe we can pull the hole over it like a bag. Oh, probably the hole resizes too. :(

[Frendle]

Can Reavis wildshape into an owl?

[Bobthewizard]

Maybe the neighbor's owls could help us. JH said the portable hole can stay full size and fold down to where we can carry it. So we spread out the now 600' diameter hole, then the owl pushes the book into the hole. Then we spend a long time refolding the hole.

[Bobthewizard]

Raevis can change his spells on a long rest. Clip was referring to casting speak with animals and then animal friendship on the neighbor's owls so they would help us, not having Raevis turn into an owl. I would guess the wards are blocked for those particular owls, not every owl.

[Xav]

I can, but I also have an owl familiar. So, we all can potentially get there on my owl. Or we can be disintegrated, if only Special owls are allowed through.

[J-H]

Only the specific owls are allowed through. Eldaroth was pretty thorough, although also kind of a jerk to all the animals without special privileges.

You do have a long rest to swap spells, buy mundane gear, etc. before the heist begins.

[Frendle]

Can we end the diminished size ourselves? Without going to 0 hp's I mean. :)

[Pyrophilios]

Barit has his Bottled Respite feature: He can just hold the book and go into his ring. Since the space is extra dimensional, the book should come with him and remain there once he exits again. The Ogre Strength Gauntlets aren't affected by size changes, keeping strength always at 19, so it shouldn't be a problem in general to lift the book.

[J-H]

Can we end the diminished size ourselves? Without going to 0 hp's I mean. :)
With a Dispel or something similar, sure, but you won't be able to go back to small.


Barit has his Bottled Respite feature: He can just hold the book and go into his ring. Since the space is extra dimensional, the book should come with him and remain there once he exits again. The Ogre Strength Gauntlets aren't affected by size changes, keeping strength always at 19, so it shouldn't be a problem in general to lift the book.

That should work. I do want to make sure that there's a solution available to parties that don't have a specific subclass, though. Any other ideas?

[Pyrophilios]

The easiest way would be to have the book be a magic item itself.
Armor resizes for the wearer. A scroll of enlarge/reduce would likely be the next best solution.

[Bobthewizard]

If enlarge/reduce would work, I could take it as a spell during our long rest.

@J-H do we think it would be enough for the book?

[Bobthewizard]

Barit has his Bottled Respite feature: He can just hold the book and go into his ring.


With a Dispel or something similar, sure, but you won't be able to go back to small.

If the book won't fit in your ring while it is small, we could dispel your reduction, you grab the book, go in your ring, then we put the giant-to-us ring in the portable hole. The ring would likely fit in a portable hole that reduced with us.

We should also be able to use the neighbor's owls, but that is ultimately up to @Xav since they'd need to change some spells.

[J-H]

That cuts the size by half and the weight by 1/8th.
That would reduce it from, say, 3200 lbs to 400 lbs, which a STR 18 character could get behind and push off the shelf.

That sounds reasonable. I'd include a scroll of Reduce so that a party that doesn't have the spell could still handle it.

[Xav]

Reducing the book or enlarging one of the characters with high strength (like Raevis) should work.
Also some kind of telekinesis? Mage hand/invisible servant? Familiar, that is summoned near the book. Other sentient summons.

[J-H]

All the magic gets rescaled with you (including Tk effects). Otherwise, you could do things like blow 3 Large mice apart with a single casting of Magic Missile.

[Frendle]

Honey I shrunk the murder hobos?

[J-H]

You can assume you have some gold left over from the dragon's hoard.

[Pyrophilios]

Enough for two Potions of Animal Friendship at 100gp each?

[J-H]

Sure, that's fine

[Pyrophilios]

Cool, I'll change my last post then

[Frendle]

So it is now evening the day before the party?

[J-H]

It's the afternoon the day before the party. You have about 26 hours to make any necessary preparations.

[Xav]

So, I've added Animal Friendship (for owls) and Conjure Animals (instead of Call Lightning because house) to memorize.

[J-H]

Has everyone finished their preparations? Are we ready to time-skip to Shrinking Time?

[Pyrophilios]

Yupp, I certainly am :smallbiggrin:

[Bobthewizard]

Before we shrink, I think we should find the owls and befriend them. Then we shrink and ride them into the house.

[Frendle]

I'm ready.

[J-H]

If you want to befriend owls, you need to do it before Shrink-Time, and I'll need some details about who's going to try to do it and how.

[Xav]

Raevis. I can describe later, but, basically, via Animal Friendship.

[Xav]

Plan added. I suggest not to hunt for mice ourselves, but to to buy them.

[J-H]

You can certainly find a place to buy live mice, but the mice will be much larger than you when you are shrunken. How do you plan to move them?

[Xav]

They are needed only to lure owls. Small pieces of food is a material component of the spell, and in this case we must be sure, that owls come. So, mice it is. In no way we are going to take them with us. Although mice riding might be not the worst idea. But then there can be a cat in the house...

[Bobthewizard]

The mice can't get past the wards, only the owls. I think the plan is

1. buy mice
2. find owls
3. cast animal friendship, using mice as food
4. feed all the mice to the owls
5. shrink
6. ride owls into house
7. find book
8. deploy portable hole below book
9. push book into hole
10. fold up portable hole
11. escape
12. huge profits

[J-H]

Shrinking happens at Olivier's office, unless you want to stand around in an alley in the good part of town doing obvious magic with disappearing (shrinking) people around sunset.

When do you plan to befriend the owls, and how will you reach them?

[Bobthewizard]

If we shrink here, how do we get all the way there? It will be hundreds of miles at our tiny size.

[Xav]

Well, I also thought, that we're going to shrink only near house, after we've befriended the owls.
In other case, I don't know, how do we get there.

[J-H]

Olivier has a box. He's also got a long string tied to it that you can use to descend the 960' (relative size) stone fence wall, in case you didn't plan for that, and the portable hole folded up and tied to be relatively small (about 50 lbs relative weight).

[Frendle]

I have spider climb and can carry one person at a time over the wall. So long as they don't weigh more than 250 pounds, I can carry us one at a time over the wall ala Princes Bride sans the rope. Then lower each down with the rope on the other side.

It lasts an hour and gives me a climbing speed equal to my walking speed.

[Bobthewizard]

Maybe the rest of us could shrink, then Raevis could stay normal size for now and be the only one to shrink after he befriends the owls.

J-H, if this adventure relies on us walking through the yard, and using the owls would mess up the adventure, it might be better to have the owls prevented from entering without getting zapped, instead of them having free passage. We wouldn't have even pursued this option if that had been the case.

[J-H]

I think you're going to have trouble reaching the owls, who nest in another estate that has some wards. There's also the challenge of "befriend when you're human size, then expect that to carry over to when you are snack sized" with creatures that have INT 1 or INT 2.

Perhaps Olivier could bring up having already thought about charming an owl and dismissed it due to the wards and their lack of intelligence?

The owls add a flying enemy that makes "We'll all just fly across the yard" have an element of risk. They are 10-20 times the size of the party, and it's hard to hide in midair unless you're outright invisible.

[Pyrophilios]

I'd prefer not flying on owls - or rather make that an option, once we are shrunk.

A dead mouse should be good enough as bait.

[Xav]

Of course, in this case I'd prefer not to deal with them, and to leave the distraction.
So, we're getting inside without the owl's help. Do we need to describe the way, we are going to get there? I guess, our quest-giver will send there someone with the box, but it'll be probably left behind the fence.

[Frendle]

I had Breddo roll stealth, but do we really want to do that? At least not until we get close?

Maybe even wait till we are in.

[Xav]

(1d20+7)[8] - StealthLooks like night flying acid-spitting ants are coming for me...

[J-H]

Fun fact: Owls can hunt invisible creatures based on sound.

https://inlightofnature.com/owls-ability-hunt-sound/

[Frendle]

Foreshadowing?

[Pyrophilios]

All the more reason not to sound like a mouse :smallwink:

[J-H]

After the joke about flying invisibly across, I decided to see if owls hunted by sound or not, and it turns out that they do.

I guess it's better insight into how some forms of blindsense or blindsight work. At some point in the future, I need to equip someone with a group of owls that act as sentinels to spot invisible infiltrators.

What grid square(s) is the party moving through next?

[Bobthewizard]

I like the cover these bushes provide. I would like to change my vote and suggest we mostly move along the west side of the walkway so we can stay under these bushes. So go north 3-4 squares from the top of the bush giving us a little space from the beehives, then cross the walkway, then north under the bushes in the second squares from the walkway.

[Pyrophilios]

Provided there aren't any spiders in those bushes... :smallwink:

We can move on in a straight line to G35, 34, 33, etc. right at the border to the F column - should be good enough for us to reach the safety of the bushes if necessary.

[Xav]

Bees are probably asleep, but either way I'd vote for line E-F. Near the bushes.

[Frendle]

I think we should head straight north through the grass until we get to the two bushes to the north, using them to stay on course, then head west to the walkway.

So head north up column K until row 28, then head west on 28 to row G then head north again.

We need to stay away from those bees, some my still be coming back to the hive.

[Bobthewizard]

Bees are probably asleep, but either way I'd vote for line E-F. Near the bushes.

I like that line. I think we should stay to the left (E-F) instead of the right (G). Going up G is about 10 rounds (5 dashing) from the bushes. That seems pretty far. I think E-F border makes more sense.

I think we're at about G-34 right now. So I suggest north to 29 then over to E-F border.

[J-H]

I rolled physical dice for encounter checks per square and rolled a 1 on the first square that could had something. It's gonna get real, really fast.

Party perception checks vs rolled DC 20
Barit [roll0]
Breddo [roll1]
Clip [roll2]
Raevis [roll3] or [roll4]
edit: that's bad
Random targeting in alphabetical order since nobody is trying to hide [roll5]. I don't think anyone is walking around with a light source?

[Xav]

No Light, but Raevis' stealth roll was a natural 1, so... Perhaps, he smells tasty?

[Xav]

Well. Two stealth rolls. And both are natural 1. What is this?

[J-H]

Clip's lightning launcher should be doing 1d6+6...how is it doing 1d6+10?

[Bobthewizard]

Clip's lightning launcher should be doing 1d6+6...how is it doing 1d6+10?

It's 1d20+10 to hit and 1d6+6 damage. I think they are right in my post. they each did 9 damage.

[J-H]

Sorry, you're right. I just can't read right after waking up.

[Bobthewizard]

That's ok. I had a whole reply apologizing for confusing the two modifiers, and then looked it up to make sure I at least did the to hit rolls right.

[Frendle]

I'm gonna put it here cause instants are a pain to retro fit into a post.

If the owl attacks me and it looks like a hit, I will cast Shield to hopefully cause a miss.

[J-H]

Move - move to the bush to the North, behind one of the branches
Action-hide
You're in the middle of the grassy area, more than a minute's travel away from any bushes. Would you like to change your action?

Owl con save [roll0]

[Xav]

You're in the middle of the grassy area, more than a minute's travel away from any bushes. Would you like to change your action?
Sorry, missed that one. Yes, no hiding then. I use perception to see, if any more owls are arriving.
[roll0] - Perception
[roll1] - advantage

[J-H]

The readied action won't go off until the other two PCs who go before the owl take their turns, and it moves back into range. I'll hold off on rolling the save until then.

[J-H]

Owl Wis [roll0]

[J-H]

Are you moving straight up the G line?

[Bobthewizard]

I thought E-F, but if everyone wants G that's fine with me.

[Xav]

I'd say E-F seems kinda better.

[Frendle]

Agreed E - F

[J-H]

GM1 [roll0]
GM2 [roll1]
vs party passive perceptions

[J-H]

I need to know what order y'all are traveling in.

Init rolls
M1[roll0]
M2[roll1]
Barit [roll2]
Breddo [roll3]
Clip [roll4]
Raevis [roll5], [roll6]

[Pyrophilios]

I need to know what order y'all are traveling in.

Init rolls
M1[roll0]
M2[roll1]
Barit [roll2]
Breddo [roll3]
Clip [roll4]
Raevis [roll5], [roll6]
If no-one stops him, Barit will be up front.

[Bobthewizard]

Looking at the sheets, I would normally recommend Fighter -> Moon Druid -> Warlock -> Artificer bringing up the rear.

So Bredo, Raevis, Barit, Clip, so

For this round, it's easy for Barit to move up to the front to cast silent image.

[Frendle]

I'm ok with that order

[J-H]

You can cast Animal Friendship at will, but it's a single target spell, so you can only hit 1 moth this round with it. Are you going to do the one on the right or on the left?

[Pyrophilios]

I'd say the right one. Should have picked Ifreet as patron than I could crack a joke about moths drawn to the flame... :smallbiggrin:

[Xav]

My turn now?

[J-H]

Yeah, that was just a reaction to the first attack that hit it.

[Frendle]

Man I can't hit anything with that fire bolt

[J-H]

GM1 Dex save [roll0]

[J-H]

GM2 Wis save [roll0] vs charm

[J-H]

Barit con save (no modifier) [roll0]

[Pyrophilios]

Damnit, should have invested into this cloak of protection... :smalleek:
9 vs. DC 10...

[Xav]

Moth on the right (that didn't turn invisible) was not in faerie's fire area of effect?

[J-H]

No, and it's charmed.

[J-H]

I'll be out of town until late Sunday, and probably won't be posting anything here until Monday or Tuesday.

[J-H]

Con [roll0] vs scorpion poison

[Pyrophilios]

Con save is a good idea - I assume I get one the next round?

[roll0]

[Bobthewizard]

Let's have Clip attack the invisible one instead of the charmed one.

Disadvantage roll 1 [roll0]
Disadvantage roll 2 [roll1]

[J-H]

Ooh, that's not going to hit.

Barit does not get to save every round against the sleep effect.

[Frendle]

Breddo will also attack the invisible one.

First
[roll0]
[roll1]
Damage [roll2]


Second
[roll3]
[roll4]
Damage [roll5]

[Pyrophilios]

Ooh, that's not going to hit.

Barit does not get to save every round against the sleep effect.

Wait - this is a sleep effect? Elfs and Half Elfs are immune to that thanks to fey ancestry:

Fey Ancestry.
You have advantage on saving throws against being charmed, and magic can't put you to sleep.

[J-H]

Then yes, Barit is not unconscious. Fey Ancestry would probably be better phrased as having immunity to the "unconscious" condition. The bite attack is phrased as "unconscious" but it's really just falling asleep, similar to drow poison and a few other things.

[Frendle]

Is it possible for me to slide around behind the moth to flank it to get rid of the disadvantage?

[J-H]

I don't use the optional flanking rules.

[J-H]

Wis save vs DC 13 [roll0]

[J-H]

You can make checks to identify the various animals you're coming across... typically Nature, occasionally Arachna... I mean Arcana.

Your travel path is due north from the current square once you are ready to proceed, correct?

[Pyrophilios]

That's my understanding.

Here are my rolls for the next encounter :smallwink:

Arcana [roll0]
Nature [roll1]

[Bobthewizard]

Here are mine

Arcana [roll0]
Nature [roll1]

Edit: let's hope it's magical

[J-H]

Applying those to the most recent encounter.... not so good on the Nature front so far (but the Druid hasn't rolled).

On the Arcana front, however, Ghost Moths are a minor curiousity to illusionists and spell researchers. They are a predatory moth that somehow has an affinity for invisibility, being able to both turn themselves invisible for short time periods as a defense against predation, and actively seeking out items or creatures affected by invisibility magic.

In theory, a population of them could be used to help detect invisible intruders, but in practice, nobody's figured out how to get a dense enough population to stay in one place long enough for them to be useful. Things you want to guard usually aren't things you want a few thousand insects and their food around.

[J-H]

1) Continue at normal speed
2) Continue at stealth speed using same rolls
3) Continue at stealth speed using new rolls

First 3 votes decide unless it's a tie.

[Bobthewizard]

1) Continue at normal speed
2) Continue at stealth speed using same rolls
3) Continue at stealth speed using new rolls

First 3 votes decide unless it's a tie.

I vote normal speed but Clip will slow down if everyone else wants to.

[Pyrophilios]

Same, speed is important

[Frendle]

Bumping is racing. Speed, Speed, Speed.

[Xav]

As I see, stealth rolls don't help much, so - normal speed.

[J-H]

Con save vs paralysis [roll0]

[Bobthewizard]

Sweet. Everyone, you should get advantage to attack it, and melee hits are automatically crits.

[Pyrophilios]

Wait with that until I tried to charm it. Having a riding lizzard might be a good way also to cut down our travel time.

[J-H]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there a way to tell if a creature is charmed when it can't act or react?
I don't think you know if it worked or not until the lizard is un-paralyzed.

[Pyrophilios]

Probably - but it should appear a lot calmer - maybe an insight check?

[J-H]

Can a paralyzed creature even move its eyes and breathe?
I think when we had someone paralyzed underwater the answer was either that breathing is still controlled, or the paralyzed creature just holds its breath automatically/frozen.

[J-H]

Eh, go ahead and roll an insight check...but determining the mood of an unintelligent paralyzed animal is DC 18.

[Pyrophilios]

Fair: Insight

[roll0]

[J-H]

I'm waiting for a post from Breddo.

[Pyrophilios]

Frendle hasn't been online for over two weeks now, I think we can consider the character lost.

[Bobthewizard]

Crit roll [roll0]

[J-H]

You should have two attacks from Extra Attack on your readied attack, then two more attacks from taking your action if that's what you're doing.

[Bobthewizard]

Thanks. I misread the order. Added the extra attacks.

[J-H]

Waiting on Raevis and Barit...or Barit and someone to post for Xav if he's still feeling bad.

[Pyrophilios]

I'll take care of both once I get home

[J-H]

oops
The lizard is Gargantuan, and Raevis is only Large as a scorpion, so it's not a valid target for grappling unless you're just trying to hold on and get carried around by it.

If I'd realized earlier, it would have escaped from melee. Instead, it stayed and died. It had 171hp, and you all had it to 170 damage before I rolled the save vs. poison.

[J-H]

DM rolls because I'm not around my physical dice

[roll0]

[Bobthewizard]

Now that we are closer, do we see any good entrances for creatures our size - cracks under the door, keyholes, slightly open windows?

[J-H]

From what you can see and what you know of how houses are usually built, you've got 3 options:

1. There's a good chance you could fit into a crack under the kitchen door.
2. Most brick houses have weep holes built into the brick near the bottom to allow any moisture that gets inside to drain out. You could probably find one of these.
3. There are windows, but they do not appear to be open. You could perhaps find a way to unlatch one and go in that way.

[J-H]

Can I get a specific route in map coordinates, please?

[Bobthewizard]

I would say D 10 close to C then straight north until we get to the door. If we can get under the door, that might be easiest. If not then we'll look for other ways in.

[J-H]

I'm getting the idea that we need to recruit another player.

[Bobthewizard]

Is it just Pyro and me left?

[J-H]

I think so. Xav hasn't posted since December 9.

[Bobthewizard]

Then let's at least get a 3rd, and maybe a 4th.

[J-H]

Recruit via PM or try public posting?
Having multiple games with all the same players is great as long as everyone stays available, but if/when someone drops, it then impacts all of the games at once.

[Pyrophilios]

I'd say recruit public. The regulars that I played with that were reliable haven't been around in a while :smallfrown:

[Bobthewizard]

I'm fine with either

[J-H]

The one person who posted interest in recruiting has so far not made a sheet.

Are you both having fun so far?
Unfortunately, "Beast" is the dominant enemy category for most of this.

Do you want to each make a 2nd character to get back to a party of 4?

[Pyrophilios]

I'd be happy to - I also have a concept in mind (when I heard heist I focused too much on potential social encounters :smallsigh: )

[Bobthewizard]

I'm in. I played in a RandomWombat game once where we had 3 characters each and it was a lot of fun.

@pyro what are you making?

[Pyrophilios]

I'm in. I played in a RandomWombat game once where we had 3 characters each and it was a lot of fun.

@pyro what are you making?

I'm currently thinking about revisiting a Bugbear Ranger/Scout I made a while ago, or revisit a Ranger/Monk concept that I never got quite to work as intended

[Pyrophilios]

Alright: This is Garuth (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2747990), a really, really big bad news bugbear and as sneaky as it gets with lots of expertise.

[Bobthewizard]

Here's Spider (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2355217), our halfling tank.

[Pyrophilios]

lvl. 9 you have proficiency of +4 :smallsmile:

[J-H]

Garuth
The original 16 was PHB races only, but I think I can live with Bugbear. You have 2 ASIs that give a total of +3 DEX, yet have DEX 20. Bugbear gives +2 str/+1 dex, so how'd you get to 20?

Taya
Don't think I have any questions

[Pyrophilios]

I used the Bugbear from Monster of the Multiverse, as that's the latest/current version - those come with variable stat arrays

I have another character lined up with a woodelf instead
I'll post that once I get off work


Edit: Lanius Collurio (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2749133)

This one isn't an assassine but a scout - less first strike, sudden death and more continuous hiding and evasion.

[J-H]

Ok, are you both ready to proceed with the new characters replacing those who have departed?

[Bobthewizard]

Yes. However you want to introduce/retcon this is fine with me.

[J-H]

They've always been with the party in place of the others.

[Pyrophilios]

They just had very good stealth rolls :smallwink:

[Pyrophilios]

Ini for Lanius:

[roll0]

[Pyrophilios]

Question: is snake infrared vision mechanically identical to dark vision?
I.e. does it trigger the gloomstalker invisibility?

[Bobthewizard]

There is no such thing as infrared vision in 5e. There is darkvision, blind sight, tremorsense, and true sight. I think snakes have blindsight to a short range. Outside of that range they just have normal vision. So if you are in the dark, you are invisible to them, regardless of whether or not you are a gloom stalker.

[J-H]

That is correct. With the scale being different while shrunken, their blindsight isn't quite so short-ranged any more.

[J-H]

Waiting on posts for Taya and Clip.

[J-H]

Are you doing Minor Illusion (5' cube?) at will that the party is moving in and out of, or something else?
(+ Pass Without Trace)

Which way are you going?

[Pyrophilios]

Misty Vision aka silent Image covers a 15ft cube that can be moved as an action

[J-H]

So you're moving 10' per round to keep the illusion on you?
That's a speed of 1" real scale per round, or 100' / 6" per minute.

[Pyrophilios]

Only, if we have to move in rounds instead of travel mode.

The illusion moves with up to 120ft per round. (It can be moved from any point within range to any other) The problem you describe only happens if we can't all move concurrently, while we are out of combat.

[J-H]

I made a thread in the 5e forum looking for details on Silent Illusion as Mass Invisibility. It has been pointed out that you can't do "illusion of what's on the other side as though it were transparent." You an only do a single illusion or set of objects, and how they appear will differ based on what angle they're being watched from.

They may also impede your vision.

So, what's the illusion of?

[Pyrophilios]

Basically an umbrella with a texture similar to the floor with indistinct edges - camo in other words.

Just enough breaking up of lines to not be identifiable from a distance. A duck blind (https://images.app.goo.gl/3q3zzTrKnezTRKt36)

[J-H]

Great. And where are you going?

[Bobthewizard]

I vote hallway since we're on that side of the kitchen. Are there any clues in here for where the library might be?

[Pyrophilios]

I concur - straight through the kitchen and out into the hallway

[Bobthewizard]

When the servants left the kitchen, which way did they go?

[J-H]

Down the hall you went down.

[J-H]

You're currently at the kitchen end of the hall, the very first door on the right as you go down the hall from the kitchen.

[J-H]

To clarify, I'm waiting on confirmation for which way you are going.

[Pyrophilios]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but checking out the remaining door in this corridor wouldn't take much more time than just going back to the kitchen and going through the second door?

In that case, I'm very strongly recommending checking the third door here and would even do it solo with Lanius and afterwards catch up with the rest of the group.

[Bobthewizard]

You're the one with the illusion up so we'll go with you.

[J-H]

There are two remaining doors in the hall - one at the far end on the right, and one most of the way to the far end, on the left.
It will take at least 10 minutes to do so due to the distance involved.

[Pyrophilios]

Then the far right first

[J-H]

In case it was unclear, cracks in the walls are a way to get inside the walls and have another (less visible) route between rooms.

Just wanted to make sure that was something you were aware of.

[Pyrophilios]

Yes, tough in my experience that's where spiders live...

[J-H]

Looks like your aim is good...barely. The Athletics check to push it is separate, DC 18.

[J-H]

Can you work out your time calcs for the next few rounds, or do I need to?

[Bobthewizard]

Unless I'm missing something, I think I need you to. Taya and Clip are folding up the portable hole. Taya will cast pass without trace as soon as someone arrives. Then we will move towards cover.

[J-H]

If it ends up as a fight, your characters do recall having a single scroll of Modify Memory (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Modify%20Memory#content) available.

It's been a few months real time, and I wanted to make sure you hadn't completely forgotten.

[Bobthewizard]

But a range of 30'. What's that, like 5"?

[J-H]

1/2" = 1x 5' square so 3". You'd have to be really close to her.

[J-H]

Lanius still needs to make a stealth check for noise while being invisible. Advantage because he's flying and thus not touching much.

Also need stealth checks for Taya and Clip

[Bobthewizard]

Clip [roll0], [roll1], advantage from cloak, cat has disadvantage to see him

Taya [roll2]

[Pyrophilios]

You mean Barrit 😄

[roll0]

[Bobthewizard]

I think we want Barrit to fail. Stay out of its reach and distract it so we can get away. Hide in the books for a minute, and then fly to safety.

[J-H]

Barit's fly speed is only 30', and he's using his action to Hide, so he can't actually get into the bookshelf, right?

[Pyrophilios]

Do you need to hide constantly? I though once your are hidden and out of sight, you keep that status

But getting to cover would be more important than hiding.

Also a question: If I use my spellwrought tattoo to call an owl as my familiar. Would the owl be shrunken down as well, or appear in original size?

My escape plan is to get into my ring once we reach the garden. I call up my familiar and have it carry the ring out of the area.

[J-H]

There's some DM discretion involved in "let the previous roll stand" or not. Generally yes, unless you change what you are doing (go from standing still to move) in combat where someone's actively alert for you. If he was just holding still doing nothing, the previous Hide roll could stay.... but now he's flying while carrying a big rolled up thing, and while very close to a big cat.

All magic cast while you're under the effects of the spell is shrunken, so that would include your owl. The ring would still be tiny and the owl could carry it with everyone inside. The only risk would be if something decided to snack on the owl as it flew.

[Pyrophilios]

Alright, then it's definitely dash behind books while also flying up

[Bobthewizard]

Where is a safe place to hide? Where is a place to escape?

[Pyrophilios]

The gap in the wall is currently out best bet

[J-H]

Pretty much. Just hiding anywhere else leaves you with the question of "when will the cat get bored and decide you've escaped?" and "how long will you wait?"

[J-H]

Are Clip and Taya going to keep running?

[Bobthewizard]

Yes. As fast as they can while still hiding.

[J-H]

Calculation check, please:

Wood objects have AC 15 (based on hitting effectively, not "not hitting").
1" of wood is 10' at your size, and is probably on the low end for wood paneling plus a baseboard.
That's 120" of thickness.

Wall of Stone segments have 30hp per inch of thickness. Wood is, let's say, half as much, at 15hp per inch of thickness. This is a game world number, not based on any exhaustive research on relative hardness... wood can split, rock can shatter, etc.

120 inches x 15hp per inch = 1800 hp to destroy a 5'x5' segment.
D&D works in 5' cubes and it's very hard to swing a sledgehammer in a 1' wide tunnel, so although I considered a reduction in possible HP for "smaller tunnel" I don't think it's really going to kick in until the last bit of your cut.

Lanius has +8 to hit vs AC 15, so he needs a 7 or greater to hit. Miss chance is a 1-6, or 30%.
He attacks twice per round for 2d6+4 (average 11) damage.

1800hp/11 hp per hit = 163.6 hits. With a 30% miss chance, 163 / 7 x 10 = 232.8 swings, or 116 combat rounds. At 10 combat rounds per minute, that's 11.6 minutes to chop through.
Also, that's a really grueling pace to swing a sledgehammer/maul at with no break, and should probably call for an exhaustion check.

Does that sound about right?

[Bobthewizard]

Calculation check, please:

Wood objects have AC 15 (based on hitting effectively, not "not hitting").
1" of wood is 10' at your size, and is probably on the low end for wood paneling plus a baseboard.
That's 120" of thickness.

Wall of Stone segments have 30hp per inch of thickness. Wood is, let's say, half as much, at 15hp per inch of thickness. This is a game world number, not based on any exhaustive research on relative hardness... wood can split, rock can shatter, etc.

120 inches x 15hp per inch = 1800 hp to destroy a 5'x5' segment.
D&D works in 5' cubes and it's very hard to swing a sledgehammer in a 1' wide tunnel, so although I considered a reduction in possible HP for "smaller tunnel" I don't think it's really going to kick in until the last bit of your cut.

Lanius has +8 to hit vs AC 15, so he needs a 7 or greater to hit. Miss chance is a 1-6, or 30%.
He attacks twice per round for 2d6+4 (average 11) damage.

1800hp/11 hp per hit = 163.6 hits. With a 30% miss chance, 163 / 7 x 10 = 232.8 swings, or 116 combat rounds. At 10 combat rounds per minute, that's 11.6 minutes to chop through.
Also, that's a really grueling pace to swing a sledgehammer/maul at with no break, and should probably call for an exhaustion check.

Does that sound about right?

It’s all made up. There are no rules for what you are doing. You asked how we would cover the noise as we broke through so we answered that. If you don’t want it to be possible just say so.

[J-H]

I do want it to be possible, but I had not thought through the mechanics in advance. Any suggestions for how to handle it better while maintaining versimilitude?

[Bobthewizard]

I do want it to be possible, but I had not thought through the mechanics in advance. Any suggestions for how to handle it better while maintaining versimilitude?

Sure. At the corners there is a small gap near the stud and above the baseboard where there is only a thin layer of paneling. Equivalent of 3’ thick to you. AC 15, 200HP.

[J-H]

That sounds good, although a 3" high baseboard is about 25' off the ground to you. Climbing the interior of the wall is easy, but I'm not so sure about hanging on to it while swinging a two-handed weapon.

Of course, there could be a lip on the inside or some nails sticking through to stand on.

I may be porting too much over from "modern house" but that's all I know.

[Bobthewizard]

That sounds good, although a 3" high baseboard is about 25' off the ground to you. Climbing the interior of the wall is easy, but I'm not so sure about hanging on to it while swinging a two-handed weapon.

Of course, there could be a lip on the inside or some nails sticking through to stand on.

I may be porting too much over from "modern house" but that's all I know.

If we are that small, there are probably small gaps under the baseboard that we could crawl through.

[Pyrophilios]

Adding to the discussion: I'd say non-hardened wood is a lot less durable than stone (mice are capable to gnaw through pretty reliably), so I'd say 5 hp at most. Also, Barit can also use his pact weapon to hack at the wood, so there is alternation. Finally, we can use the help action (by using our crowbars), so you can improve the to-hit chance by about 5 points, so only 1 and 2 would miss.

Both characters have ogre strength gauntlets, so their strenght is magic enhanced and shouldn't be to exhausting (after all, their muscles aren't getting tired if the strengh comes from the magic)

[Bobthewizard]

We have +10 on our stealth checks from PWOT

[J-H]

Cupcake didn't hear you. The moving illusion isn't perfect, and she has a high enough passive Perception check to spot it.

[Bobthewizard]

You are negating PWOT and penalizing us for adding the illusion. PWOT isn't just sound. It's all stealth.

[J-H]

The illusion worked last time, but didn't help this time. Hiding visually only works if there's something to be obscured behind, and at least some of the time in the kitchen there's not.

Pyro, good point, the kitchen is dark (there could be a magical night-light, but I never specified one) so yes, Lanius gets his anti-Darkvision bonuses.

[J-H]

When moving away please post how far you're going so I don't have to look in character sheets to find your speed.

What is Barit doing? Pyro, you posted for Lanius only.

[Bobthewizard]

Have Clip and Taya move 30'

[Pyrophilios]

Barit was last in the in order, so I waited for the others to act first.

[J-H]

It will take several minutes of movement to go ahead and get to the door. I'm curious, what's the plan beyond a mix of "run away" and "beat up the cat"?

[Pyrophilios]

Get the cat to 0 hp, stabilize it and use modify memory.
Since it's actually a familiar with like 1 to 4 hp, it should wake up fully healed within an hour.

[Bobthewizard]

If it is a familiar per the find familiar spell, I think it disappears once it drops to zero HP. I'm not sure if memories carry over from one casting to the next. I'd say no as a DM but it's not clear.

[J-H]

As far as Taya can tell, the damage you've done to Cupcake so far is enough to annoy her, but not seriously impair or injure her. She is a big cat and you are very small in comparison.

[J-H]

It's the thieves' turn.

This has been the most unusual "dragon" fight I've run. She doesn't even have a breath weapon.

[J-H]

Made it by 1! The risk paid off.

[Pyrophilios]

Well, I probably should have invested in a few more charm spells from the beginning :smallsigh:

[J-H]

Plugging the arrows meaning removing?

[Pyrophilios]

Exactly - removing evidence

[Pyrophilios]

Alright, the plan:

Once outside I can call up an owl familiär with my spell wrought tattoo.
As this magic will also be under the influence of the shrinking effect - the owl won't be of too much use.
But if we manage to cause exactly one point of damage, the owl will revert to its original size, making it able to carry us to safety.

[J-H]

I thought you were going to hide in your genie vessel for that?

[Pyrophilios]

Yes, but then I noticed that I'm only lvl 9 and can't bring my companions with me...

[J-H]

I see two problems with this:
1.
"When the familiar drops to 0 hit points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. It reappears after you cast this spell again." - Find Familiar spell

When you reduce it to 0hp, it vanishes instead of sticking around and re-sizing.

2.
You haven't cast the spell before, so you're casting it in small form. That means "any magic you cast while under the effects will be miniaturized just as you are."
So the familiar doesn't have a big size to go back to anyway.

[Pyrophilios]

Well, that leaves only one option: Me turning normal again, calling the familiar and going into my ring, so the owl can carry the rest of the team and the ring outside.

[J-H]

Based on what you know of the wards, the owl would be able to pass through it, as long as it sufficiently meets the definition of owl by the wards' standards, and the ring and the rest of the party would be small enough to pass through as well.

My only question around that would be if the wards can tell the difference between an owl familiar (fey) or a regular owl, or an imp's alternate form being an owl (typically raven, yeah, yeah).

I'm inclined to say that's an edge case that's not likely to be programmed in. Even if it was and the owl hit the wards and disintegrated, the party would travel past the wards, hit the ground for 20d6 falling damage, and either still be alive, or be knocked to 0 and return to normal form, either of which would be acceptable for your purposes.

[Bobthewizard]

Using HD to get to full HP

Clip [roll0]

Taya [roll1]

[J-H]

It's pick two, so you'll have to decide :)

The Staff of Swarming Insects should have a bit more of a place in optimization discussions. It makes the entire area heavily obscured for everyone except the wielder, so everyone within 30' is blinded in a way that Darkvision and Truesight don't fix. The only bad thing is that it limits itself to non-martial classes, rather than "attunement by a spellcaster," which leaves out arcanist fighters and rogues. It still might be worth a dip to get it in a one-shot or arena type game.

[Bobthewizard]

We'll take the staff then as long as an artificer can use it. No batman outfit for Taya :frown:

Yes, that "everyone is blind except you for one charge" is pretty awesome.

[Pyrophilios]

I assume this is the end of the module, or are we facing retaliation by a mage?

[J-H]

Yes, this is it!

What worked?

What did not work?

What was awkward or could have been better?

How were the fights? I felt a bit limited as basically everything you fought was Beast type except for Cupcake, who was a Monstrosity, but in terms of power and size, was more of a dragon minus breath weapon.

Did it feel like your characters were shrunken and moving through a really big house?

[Pyrophilios]

There were many interesting elements, but also some that didn't quite work:

The good:

+ The premise is cool and certainly unexpected
+ The mundane garden felt really dangerous and jungle like
+ The time limit was very effective

The bad:

- The limited opponent selection
- The instant fail state if you are discovered (returning wizard)
- The inside of the house became grindy and a bit boring
- The basically impossible fight against the familiar

The weird:
o Certain builds will excell in this module (Rogue, Ranger, Monk), while others will be an absolute liability (all heavy armor wearers with little stealth capabilities)
o The inside of the building felt pretty static
o Animal Friendship from a druid or ranger could have solved 80% of all fights

Suggestions:

- Add elemental spirits to the setting that deal with cleaning and maintaining the building. The tiny spirits would allow you to add variety to the opponents and potentially also add a bit of social problem solving
- Make it rewarding to brave environmental dangers - like moving across a hot stove to reach a shortcut to the next room.
- A more linear setting might work better - if you are small you'll only look into rooms but not interact, since there is no reward to explore a room that doesn't actually bring you closer to your goal (especially with the strict time limit in the background).
- Besides animals and vermin and the previously mentioned elemental spirits, there could be also clockwork toys around - toys in general would add a lot of fun (as seen in Antman). Taking a toytrain to cross a room quickly would make a memoral situation (especially if you add a trolley problem situation into it as well :smallamused: )
- The boss fight should contain the option to knock the familiar out to apply a guaranteed mindwipe. Add more environmental effect that can be used to defeat it. (Knocking a book from the topshelf onto the cat, luring it into a narrow gap where it gets stuck, switching on a bright light to blind it, etc.)
- Having a quick option for evacuation feels good - no-one wants to retread old ground, unless there are new challenges (and after the boss fight, few people look for new challenges)
- Consider changing fall damage and strength checks according to the square-cube law: The smaller and lighter you are, the less a fall can actually hurt you and the stronger you become in relation to your environment (ant strength). Making awesome acrobatic feats possible, like bouncing off walls and giant leaps adds new options to movement, instead of being forced to cross giant empty spaces.

[Bobthewizard]

I agree with all of this. It was fun but not quite as good as the goblin game or the radiant god one-shot.

The lack of terrain and environment features was a big downside. Every fight felt like a white room without walls. There was no chance to run or hide, it was just fight the creature until it died or ran away. So maybe try to come up with more that the characters can interact with, both in and out of combat. Pyro had great ideas for that.

Also, I tried to respond to your message about the goblin game and your mailbox was full. If you put the link here, in that game, or send it as a message, I'd be happy to fill out a review for it.

[J-H]

PM box is cleared... for reviews you have to "own" it, so e-mailing a review copy is the way to go.

I did have a potential encounter for a fallen wizard chess piece that was a construct, but you didn't trigger it. I like the idea of a few small cleaning elemental-sprite-things.

My concern with adding a lot of toys would be that it means Eldaroth has kids, and people may not be as willing to rob a house that has kids in it.

At the scale the party is at, it's hard to have much terrain beyond "it's shag carpet" or "it's tile" inside the house. Outside the house, there were bushes and herb-tops overhead in some encounters, but nobody used them and they didn't really show up on the map well (3D challenges). What else can I add that would help?

I wanted to keep some exploration feeling for the house... you could have gone a few different routes including some time inside the walls to bypass some of the rooms, which would also have kept you out of sight of Cupcake (aside from in the library) and safer from the housekeeper (big broom) or cook (dragonborn with cold breath that he uses on "bugs").

I wanted Cupcake to be possible to beat, but hard and kind of scary to fight... like a cat, complete with not really even trying to eat the party, just knock them around and play with them unless they hurt her a lot. Modify Memory has a pretty good chance of succeeding, especially if preceded by anything that would give disadvantage on saves like Bane or Synaptic Static or any other miscellaneous debuffs.

Blindness, Stinking Cloud, and a few other things would probably work on her also, although non-casters tend to lack disabling options aside from Stunning Fist. She intentionally has no proficient saves, and only really good scores in STR & DEX.

Cupcake
This housecat is black, with neon pink vertical stripes, and eyes that glow with a yellow inner light. 5 size increase
Gargantuan Fey
Armor Class 22 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 486
Speed 300 ft. relative, Climb 150 ft.
Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha
23(+6) 25(+7) 10(0) 8(-1) 12(+1) 11(0)
Skills Perception +8, Stealth +9(A)
Senses Darkvision 90’, Passive Perception 18
CR 24 (PB+7)
Keen Smell. The cat has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell.
Actions
Multiattack. Cupcake makes two attacks against different targets, preferring Bat or Pin. She will only Bite a target if it was Pinned in the previous round and there is not something more interesting to do.
Bat. Melee Weapon Attack, +13 to hit, 20’, 4d6+6 bludgeoning damage. The target must make a DC 23 Strength save or be knocked 20’ in a random direction (roll 1d8, with 1 being up, 2 being up and right on the map, etc).
Pin. Melee Weapon Attack, +13 to hit, 20’, 4d6+6 bludgeoning damage. The target is restrained, and can use its action to make a DC 23 Athletics or Acrobatics check to break free.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack, +13 to hit, 20’, 4d8+6 piercing damage. On hit, the target, if Large or smaller, must make a DC 23 Athletics or Acrobatics check. On a failed check, the target is Grappled.
Swallow. After Chewing a target, Cupcake may attempt to Swallow it on the following round my making another attack with advantage. If successful, she swallows the target, dealing bite damage. Swallowed targets take 2d8+6 bludgeoning damage and 2d8 acid damage at the beginning of her turn each round, and are blinded and restrained. Dealing 40 or more damage to the Cupcake from inside in one turn will cause it to vomit out any swallowed creatures.
Legendary Actions
Cupcake gets one Legendary Action per round, which can only be taken if she is awake and not paralyzed.
Bat.
Pin.
Shake it off. Cupcake saves with advantage against one ongoing condition that hinders her.
Sniff. Cupcake makes an active Perception check with advantage to try to locate an invisible or hiding opponent, opposed by their Stealth check.

[Pyrophilios]

Toys don't necessarily need to belong to children in the household - they could be the wizards private hobby to make, be kept for a nephew or niece, or part of a collection
But even then, I don't think that an adventurer group would hessitate to steal a book that won't be missed otherwise.

Regarding terrain: That's why having less fall damage, farther jumping distances and greater carry capacity is a good idea. If the characters are in danger of getting hurt badly by a fall, they won't climb if they don't have to.
My suggestions for varied terrain would be:

Kitchen: Climb up on the oven and cross the still hot top to reach a ventilation shaft that leads upward. Encounter some fire sprites that regulate the heat in the oven. Pushing them into the wash basin next to the oven is an easy way to get rid of them if they turn hostile

Room above is a tinker/play room: Lot's of magical toys around. Making your way to the door means crossing train tracks, automated puppets and other assorted constructs

Fastest way to the library is through the laboratory: Lot's of glasware, dropping strange potions, bunsen burners, and small creatures in alcohol jars that bag you to be released (Or maybe some have escaped)

Library: As before but with more furniture - a sofa with crevices to hide in, tables with pipes and ashtray. Ash on the carpet as well as falling table cloth, pillows, books on the ground, etc. (Because the help only reluctantly cleans in the library so as not do disturb the wizard's notes

After the fight with the familiar, escape through the rookery, where trained owls can be used to send messages (team has to find a paper to write the address where they want to go as a side quest)