OOTS #1268 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Coyote0715]

My vote is for soap making to save the day!

[Yxylu]

Oh, to be able to read those sheets….

[Resileaf]

My vote is for soap making to save the day!

I vote experienced beekeeper because Oona used bees earlier!

[In4Dimensions]

Of course it would be Belkar who knows how to make soap...

[Metastachydium]

My. Belkar's secret skill is… Ominous. The most ominous thing I've seen 'round here in a while. (I'm not kidding. Don't ask why.)

Roy in the meantime is hilarious with his apparent "I don't care that they don't come in our size; the chairs are for sitting and sit on them I will" Good attitude.

[Peelee]

I choose to believe O-Chul became an apiarist for environmental reasons.

[Ivrytwr]

Those skills sheets sound like a great special section of the last Stick book!
But Astronomically aligned beekeeping sounds like an awesome way to beat Team Evil.
Thanks Giant!

[Crusher]

I'm betting on the smoke rings.

[Ionathus]

Chekhov's Skill Proficiency is a fickle mistress indeed!

Thanks for the strip, giant! Loving it as always. :smallbiggrin:

[Metastachydium]

I vote experienced beekeeper because Oona used bees earlier!

It's going to be the smoke rings. Their perfect regularity shall win over the quinton.

[smuchmuch]

I can't wait to see how Xykon will be defeated by smoke rings while slipping on a bar of soap while the FCC will be distracted by expert bartending and delightfully weaved baskets and crocheted blankets

... THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF SEEMINGLY POINTLESS DETAILS DEMANDS IT !

[ZhonLord]

If it's not underwater basket weaving, then Durkon took the wrong course and I'm very disappointed in our dwarf.

[pendell]

I want to thank the Giant for the first really funny strip in the long time. OOTS has become a more serious story over the years; it's delightful to see it return to its comedy roots, if only for a strip.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Algeh]

Roy in the meantime is hilarious with his apparent "I don't care that they don't come in our size; the chairs are for sitting and sit on them I will" Good attitude.

I really appreciated the art detail of the table being halfling-sized and how Haley, V, Roy, Lien, and O-Chul each dealt with that in different ways. I would have just skimmed right on by if Rich had just stuck them all behind the table without taking that much care, but it was nice to see the thought put in to the various ways they'd adapt to a table that wasn't their size instead.

[Zonkerbl]

Beekeeping of course because O'chul is awesom. But I think it would be hilarious if it were smoke rings.

[RMS Oceanic]

O-Chul misinterpreting Belkar's "salty" crack is delightful.

[diplomancer]

Seems like it's been a long while since we had pure D&D jokes, and this strip has plenty!

[Sir_Norbert]

I want to thank the Giant for the first really funny strip in the long time. OOTS has become a more serious story over the years; it's delightful to see it return to its comedy roots, if only for a strip.

The recent strips with Xykon and the Quinton have been hilarious and serious at the same time. OOTS has a really good mixture and it honestly doesn't change that much from one strip to the next.

[Duncun]

I can't wait to see how Xykon will be defeated by smoke rings while slipping on a bar of soap while the FCC will be distracted by expert bartending and delightfully weaved baskets and crocheted blankets

... THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF SEEMINGLY POINTLESS DETAILS DEMANDS IT !

All because the stars align.

[Shale]

My. Belkar's secret skill is… Ominous. The most ominous thing I've seen 'round here in a while. (I'm not kidding. Don't ask why.)

Seconded! Yikes.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm betting on the smoke rings.Me too. That references Lien's GDGU story. :smallsmile: (I have a bias in favor of Lien).

It's going to be the smoke rings. Their perfect regularity shall win over the quinton. I hadn't thought of why, but (FWIW) in my experience of blowing smoke rings,(smoked on and off for a number of years) each one is a bit different than the other if one takes one's time in creating them. On the other hand, if one tries to rapid fire a few out they tend to be the same size.

OOTS has become a more serious story over the years; it's delightful to see it return to its comedy roots, if only for a strip. Agree, and in particular I liked Panel 3. (Another reference to GDGU, Lien's story).

[Hiro Quester]

when I opened the comic I first accidentally saw the last panel with Roy's facepalm, thinking this happens often, I wonder why he's feeling that way in this strip.

This is very far from what I expected, that he's facepalming because people are potentially going to be useful in unexpected ways.

[Metastachydium]

I really appreciated the art detail of the table being halfling-sized and how Haley, V, Roy, Lien, and O-Chul each dealt with that in different ways. I would have just skimmed right on by if Rich had just stuck them all behind the table without taking that much care, but it was nice to see the thought put in to the various ways they'd adapt to a table that wasn't their size instead.

As did I! It's very neatly done. Roy's approach just stood out through sheer absurdity, hence my highlighting that one.


All because the stars align.

Let's not forget about another hidden talent we haven't heard about in a while: the vile art of Goat Herding (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html).

[Shining Wrath]

Let the speculation begin - which one will wind up saving the day!
I'm going with O Chul's beekeeping skill. OotS will encounter Giant Bees, and O Chul will know how to handle them.

EDIT:

Also, Durkon and Minrah are sitting pretty closely together. They've already been shipped, of course, but I hereby add a new plank to that ship.

[danielxcutter]

I’m betting on Roy’s Profession(goatherd).

[Doug Lampert]

I choose to assume that those sheets are all D&D 3.5 character sheets. (Self-aware stick figure parody and they've had rule-books in comic, of course those are their character sheets.)

I'm taking the long shot and betting that Rich fakes us all out and that none of those save the day. Who am I kidding, soap making.

[Gwynfrid]

Long live Profession(Something) and Craft(Whatever) skills! What a delightful comic. It's interesting to see how Roy has learned from Elan about dramatic narratives!

[Reboot]

Oh, definitely the beekeeping.

[Clistenes]

Elan must be so proud now! Roy is learning!

[137beth]

I utterly love how everyone who participated in the Class and Level Geekery thread was just told we "missed" getting all the information we have been arguing about for over a decade:smalltongue:

[Metastachydium]

Let's not forget about another hidden talent we haven't heard about in a while: the vile art of Goat Herding (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html).

I’m betting on Roy’s Profession(goatherd).

Heh. Strange minds…


Also, Durkon and Minrah are sitting pretty closely together. They've already been shipped, of course, but I hereby add a new plank to that ship.

I don't think so, no.


I'm taking the long shot and betting that Rich fakes us all out and that none of those save the day. Who am I kidding, soap making.

Gee, you think? (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0818.html)

[Robots]

I learned about this update via my little brother texting me "have you read the newest OOTS update? soap"

And I have to agree. Soap.


Also, Durkon and Minrah are sitting pretty closely together. They've already been shipped, of course, but I hereby add a new plank to that ship.

They certainly are standing next to each other.

[ZhonLord]

Wait a minute...... Belkar's unique thing is a reference to fight club! They mention in that movie how close making soap is to making explosives, and belkar's credo has always been "when in doubt, set it on fire." He learned soap while learning to make things blow up!

[Windscion]

I find it interesting that Mr Scruffy is at the table but Elan is not.
And of course this hints that it is Elan's skill which will win the day.
Something to do with running a tavern?

[Resileaf]

I find it interesting that Mr Scruffy is at the table but Elan is not.

Why are you surprised? Elan went off to play with Sunny not ten strips ago. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1259.html)

[TerrickTerran]

I look forward to the mystery which random skill will save the day.

[Psyren]

Oh, to be able to read those sheets….

*consoles the Geekery thread*


Wait a minute...... Belkar's unique thing is a reference to fight club! They mention in that movie how close making soap is to making explosives, and belkar's credo has always been "when in doubt, set it on fire." He learned soap while learning to make things blow up!

Soap is also a relatively innocuous way to obtain an improvised piercing weapon while incarcerated.

[Shining Wrath]

Elan must be so proud now! Roy is learning!


Why are you surprised? Elan went off to play with Sunny not ten strips ago. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1259.html)

Do they have Elan's sheet prepared? Because "Knowledge: Narrative" has saved their bacon more than once.

[Windscion]

So am I, and that's a reference to one of the GDGU stories; Lien's. :smallsmile: (I have a bias in favor of Lien).
... Agree, and in particular I liked Panel 3. (Another reference to GDGU, Lien's story, which I liked.

Heck, the way Lien is leaning against the wall in panel 1 is a callback to GDGU's Peer Pressure.

[Ionathus]

Seconded! Yikes.

I know I haven't been able to shut up about The Locked Tomb recently, but...I now know far too much about all the materials soap can be made from. :smalleek:

[DaOldeWolf]

I kinda wish there was a callback to Roy's Goat hearding here. Still, it's interesting to think about thede new background details and what they could mean for their respective character.

[daryen]

Thank you, Giant, I really needed a laugh today and this strip delivered!

Of all of the great things Roy has said, this ranks all the way up there with "Your approval fills me with shame."

Again, thank you!

[Peelee]

They certainly are standing next to each other.
I got a good laugh out of that.

Soap is also a relatively innocuous way to obtain an improvised piercing weapon while incarcerated.

Yeah, but the prisoners don't make the soap. Whittling would be a relevant skill for making soap shivs. Soap making is defo a Fight Club reference.

[Windscion]

Another possibility is that none of the skills referred to will be important, but the fact that the others are aware of them might be. For example, if they are interrogated separately and need to make their stories agree.

[Metastachydium]

Soap making is defo a Fight Club reference.

Again, suffice it to say, I hope you're right.

[Watcher]

So they have their character sheets, a big table, and some time to kill. O-Chul has some insight about Xykon's spell list if not his stats. Anyone see an incoming game of D&D where they play as themselves fighting Xykon? As "tactical practice"?

[Peelee]

If it's not underwater basket weaving, then Durkon took the wrong course and I'm very disappointed in our dwarf.

Baskets are typically made out of plant fiber. Durkon learned to perform macramé using the corpses of his enemies.

Underwater seems a bit superfluous at that point.

[Shining Wrath]

Baskets are typically made out of plant fiber. Durkon learned to perform macramé using the corpses of his enemies.

Underwater seems a bit superfluous at that point.

The shredded corpses of his enemies, cut into thin strips and dried.

Durkon is hard-core.

[KorvinStarmast]

Wait a minute...... Belkar's unique thing is a reference to fight club! They mention in that movie how close making soap is to making explosives, and belkar's credo has always been "when in doubt, set it on fire." He learned soap while learning to make things blow up! Not a bad take.

Heck, the way Lien is leaning against the wall in panel 1 is a callback to GDGU's Peer Pressure. Ooh, yeah, I missed the body language ref, nice! :smallsmile:

@Watcher: No, a D&D game will not be played.

[ZhonLord]

Baskets are typically made out of plant fiber. Durkon learned to perform macramé using the corpses of his enemies.

Underwater seems a bit superfluous at that point.

Yes, but "extreme underwater basket weaving" was a meme equivalent back in the 3.5 days. There were extensive guides on how to ramp such a ridiculous skill into as high a bonus as possible, and then creatively use it in encounters.

[Peelee]

Again, suffice it to say, I hope you're right.

Imean I still lament that I saw the movie, let alone had to read the book later on. Nobody should have to suffer through that.

Yes, but "extreme underwater basket weaving" was a meme equivalent back in the 3.5 days. There were extensive guides on how to ramp such a ridiculous skill into as high a bonus as possible, and then creatively use it in encounters.

Underwater basket weaving was a meme before that

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Also, Durkon and Minrah are sitting pretty closely together. They've already been shipped, of course, but I hereby add a new plank to that ship.

If I was one of Minrah's parents, I'd tell her that she deserves far better than Durkon. But, then again, she doesn't seem like the sort of person who would be dissuaded by that, so it's probably a good thing I'm not one of her parents.

Also we all know that it's either going to be O-Chul's Beekeeping skills or Belkar's ability to make soap that saves the day.

[danielxcutter]

Heh. Strange minds…

Actually I just saw your post and thought it was the kind of thing Rich might go with.

[Zhorn]

Please let it be soap!

[remetagross]

"I am an experienced beekeeper". I really did not see that one coming. Thanks, Giant! :smallbiggrin:

[andreas002]

I'm going with all the skills being misdirection. It'll be the salty smell that saves the day.

[Metastachydium]

The shredded corpses of his enemies, cut into thin strips and dried.

Durkon is hard-core.

[Glares.] Dwarves are savages.


Imean I still lament that I saw the movie, let alone had to read the book later on. Nobody should have to suffer through that.

I liked the book and the movie's okay (if overrated). For me, the problems began when I learned about the existence of Fight Club 2. I checked out what it is. And I wept.


Actually I just saw your post and thought it was the kind of thing Rich might go with.

Hah! I'm being useful!

[thorr-kan]

Troll Leve: EPIC!

My money's on beekeeping. Red Cloak is going to get stung to death, and goblins will take up beekeeping as a new cash crop and corner the world market, both integrating them into global society and cementing the Dark One's "Take the opportunities presented" portfolio.

[Adeptus]

New comic is up.

The theme and punchline are brilliant. I'm excited to see if one of these indeed ends up being Chekhov's beekeeping skill, or whichever.

I don't need it to be of course. It's also funny if Roy is annoyed for nothing.

[Laurentio III]

Pff. Silly.
You can't make soap out of Xykon! It's an useless skill!

[Robots]

Troll Leve: EPIC!

My money's on beekeeping. Red Cloak is going to get stung to death, and goblins will take up beekeeping as a new cash crop and corner the world market, both integrating them into global society and cementing the Dark One's "Take the opportunities presented" portfolio.

Perhaps it'll be a call-back to Oona's insect jar. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html) "Bugs!?! He threw bugs at me!"

[thorr-kan]

Perhaps it'll be a call-back to Oona's insect jar. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html) "Bugs!?! He threw bugs at me!"
Oona will be HELPY!

[alceryes]

We need to look at the BIGGER picture!
It'll be a combination of ALL of those skills that saves the day!

Now, to come up with the scenario...

[Peelee]

I liked the book and the movie's okay (if overrated). For me, the problems began when I learned about the existence of Fight Club 2. I checked out what it is. And I wept.

The biggest thing I learned from the book is that I really ****ing hate Chuck Pahlanuik.

[CountDVB]

Elan I imagine will be annoyed at missing these potential Chekov’s Skills, but the fact he’s absent here and with Sunny I get the feeling that Elan is gonna be the one to have something.

After all, he’s the one who taught everyone how to ride horses and he says that his mom “always used to say that cross-class learning was the key to a rich and fulfilling life.”

[Laurentio III]

We need to look at the BIGGER picture!
It all be a combination of ALL of those skills that saves the day!

Now, to come up with the scenario...
Oona launches the wasp jar.
O-Chun coordinates Lien's rings of smoke to calm them and put to sleep, put them in a improvised basket covered with a cloth with the writing "For the Crimson Mantle holder" cricheted on.
Redcloak, who is somehow wiser than that, says "I'm NOT falling for a so blatant trick!". As he does it, by virtue of drammatic irony, he bends to take an innocent soap bar from the ground.
"I see the moon!" declares Vaarsuvius (four words), and against The Giant's resolve, Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion returns from 1248 pages of retirement.

(I beg forgiveness for the evil I did)

[NihhusHuotAliro]

The biggest thing I learned from the book is that I really ****ing hate Chuck Pahlanuik.

Man, I'm glad I got ought of reading any of his stuff in school.

I'm still down to assist in any plots you have against the man, though.

*Prepares Jam-into-Jelly-raygun*

[Metastachydium]

The biggest thing I learned from the book is that I really ****ing hate Chuck Pahlanuik.

A friendly advice, then: if anyone ever tries to have you read Haunted, run if you can and fight to the death if you can't.

[bunsen_h]

I can't wait to see how Xykon will be defeated by smoke rings while slipping on a bar of soap while the FCC will be distracted by expert bartending and delightfully weaved baskets and crocheted blankets

... THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF SEEMINGLY POINTLESS DETAILS DEMANDS IT !

That was more or less my take as well: all of those things, and probably simultaneously. Probably with minor skills from Sunny and Elan thrown in.

A non-zany possibility would be a magical toll requiring one to lose a minor skill. It's the kind of penalty that use of artifacts/relics used to carry for use of a major power; I don't know how such things work in more recent editions.


Wait a minute...... Belkar's unique thing is a reference to fight club! They mention in that movie how close making soap is to making explosives, and belkar's credo has always been "when in doubt, set it on fire." He learned soap while learning to make things blow up!

I haven't seen Fight Club, but I'm a chemist. The only connection I can see between making soap and making explosives is that making soap produces glycerine, which can then be nitrated to make nitroglycerine. Is that it? In all other respects I can think of, the processes are unrelated, if not opposite: soap requires highly-alkaline hot-water temperatures; nitroglycerine requires highly-acidic low temperatures.


Heck, the way Lien is leaning against the wall in panel 1 is a callback to GDGU's Peer Pressure.

I'd missed that -- nice catch!


Baskets are typically made out of plant fiber. Durkon learned to perform macramé using the corpses of his enemies.

Underwater seems a bit superfluous at that point.

Basket-weaving and macramé are usually done with fibres more flexible than wood. And the dwarves don't seem to have an issue with non-tree plants. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if dwarves do their "fibre crafts" with metals.

[Metastachydium]

And the dwarves don't seem to have an issue with non-tree plants.

That monster Durkon begs to disagree (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1153.html).

[iyaerP]

Roy being the one to complain about these is extra funny because he's the one who won a big climactic fight via use of skill ranks in Knowledge: Architechture/Engineering.

[SlashDash]

O-Chul's beekeeping skills seems like the obvious candidate. Especially since a beastmaster is about. But it would seem like a bit of a rehash of Belkar and Bloodfeast?


I'm actually pondering about Minrah being able to crochet. What if they make a fake version of the Crimson Mantle or something?


I'd say V's astronomy being also very easily something that can save the day but not sure if Roy counts her or not.

[Peelee]

"I see the moon!" declares Vaarsuvius
Vaarsuvius is a saiyan, headcannon'd.

Man, I'm glad I got ought of reading any of his stuff in school.

I'm still down to assist in any plots you have against the man, though.

*Prepares Jam-into-Jelly-raygun*
I appreciate the solidatiry, but I don't have any plots against him. Which is convenient, since he doesn't have any plots either. HEYO!

A friendly advice, then: if anyone ever tries to have you read Haunted, run if you can and fight to the death if you can't.
Imean that's just good life advice in general.

[Laurentio III]

Roy being the one to complain about these is extra funny because he's the one who won a big climactic fight via use of skill ranks in Knowledge: Architechture/Engineering.
Until a herd of goats is summoned.

And don't ever forget Belkar cooking skills and Elan riding mastery!

We also must include Minrah's expertise in sorting buttons, or her ability to crochet a doily!

[RabidEel]

Everyone knows plans only work if you keep them secret first. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html)

Thus, the day-saving skill will come from the only person in that panel who didn't speak up: Mr. Scruffy.

[Mike Havran]

I find the idea of Durkon taking a course in twisting pieces of plant corpses for his own amusement to be more disturbing than Belkar's soap.

[Robots]

I find the idea of Durkon taking a course in twisting pieces of plant corpses for his own amusement to be more disturbing than Belkar's soap.

I dunno, it's kind of cute.

[Pablo360]

Yes, but "extreme underwater basket weaving" was a meme equivalent back in the 3.5 days. There were extensive guides on how to ramp such a ridiculous skill into as high a bonus as possible, and then creatively use it in encounters.

The origin of the underwater basketweaving joke was an old xkcd strip about college majors, written to be sung to the tune of “Modern Major-General” from the Pirates of Penzance. Same musical source as Tom Lehrer’s “Elements” song.

[gatemansgc]

Of course it would be Belkar who knows how to make soap...

he may be chaotic, but he's CLEAN!

[Peelee]

The origin of the underwater basketweaving joke was an old xkcd strip about college majors, written to be sung to the tune of “Modern Major-General” from the Pirates of Penzance. Same musical source as Tom Lehrer’s “Elements” song.

I think underwater basket weaving dates back to at least the 90s, where jokes about useless and needlessly specific college majors were already pretty mainstream (the film PCU had a line about being able to major in Game Boy, IIRC). Possibly earlier than that.

[chy03001]

Belkar's bringing out that "Fight Club" energy :-D

[Dame_Mechanus]

For someone who kept Charisma as a dump stat, O-Chul continues to be ever more charming.

What? I like bees.

[Coyote0715]

I think underwater basket weaving dates back to at least the 90s, where jokes about useless and needlessly specific college majors were already pretty mainstream (the film PCU had a line about being able to major in Game Boy, IIRC). Possibly earlier than that.

From the Wiki:
Early use
The phrase in its pejorative sense has been used since at least the mid-1950s. According to a 1953 article in the Boston Globe on "Hepster Lingo," "Any snap course in school is 'underwater basket weaving.'" In a letter to the editor of the Los Angeles Times in 1956, a correspondent bemoaned an alleged decline in academic standards among college football programs and mentioned "majoring in underwater basket weaving, or the preparation and serving of smorgasbord, or, particularly at Berkeley, the combined course of anatomy and panty-raiding". The following year, an article in the National Review mentioned that "the bored students in the educationists' courses call those dreary subjects 'underwater basket-weaving courses'", and another year on a newspaper column noted that "One seaside university is bowing to the stern educational demands of the times by eliminating its popular course in underwater basket weaving". An article in the Daily Collegian at Penn State University in 1961 refers to a parody in which "a typical Miami coed majoring in underwater basket weaving was interviewed". An article from 1976 refers to football players so dumb that they had to take underwater basket weaving, and another 1976 article refers to underwater basket-weaving as "an old old family joke".

[faustin]

My. Belkar's secret skill is… Ominous. The most ominous thing I've seen 'round here in a while. (I'm not kidding. Don't ask why.)



Because you can make soap from human/humanoid fat? :belkar:

[merget]

underwater basket weaving dates back to at least the 90s, where jokes about useless and needlessly specific college majors were already pretty mainstream

I can date it back a bit further, to the late 80s. It was used the way you described when I was an undergrad. (I entered college in 1984.)

Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if it goes back a century. There are surprising bits of vocal traditions that go way back. According to my father, schoolchildren were singing "There's a place in France where the ladies wear no pants" when he was a kid in the 40s, to the same melody used today.

[Vladier]

Clearly, O-Chul mentioning that he's an experienced beekeeper is foreshadowing the MitD being some kind of bee.

[alceryes]

Oona launches the wasp jar.
O-Chun coordinates Lien's rings of smoke to calm them and put to sleep, put them in a improvised basket covered with a cloth with the writing "For the Crimson Mantle holder" cricheted on.
Redcloak, who is somehow wiser than that, says "I'm NOT falling for a so blatant trick!". As he does it, by virtue of drammatic irony, he bends to take an innocent soap bar from the ground.
"I see the moon!" declares Vaarsuvius (four words), and against The Giant's resolve, Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion returns from 1248 pages of retirement.

(I beg forgiveness for the evil I did)

Spectacular! LOVE IT!

[Smoutwortel]

We need to look at the BIGGER picture!
It all be a combination of ALL of those skills that saves the day!

Now, to come up with the scenario...

An basket in a niece croachetted blanket slips on wet soap towards Redcloack where it explodes and blocks his line of sight, while the bees are kept in place with a ring of smoke surrounded by a circle of goats who together with the aligned stars preform a rare ritual extracting Redcloack's 9th level spell slot out of him.

[Laurentio III]

Clearly, O-Chul mentioning that he's an experienced beekeeper is foreshadowing the MitD being some kind of bee.
So, the game it is playing with Xykon is Spelling Bee?
I thought MitD was not a caster!

[otakuryoga]

bee keeping
100% it is gonna be bee keeping
plus, i mean, come on, it's O-CHUL

[Frozenstep]

O-Chul's beekeeping skills seems like the obvious candidate. Especially since a beastmaster is about.

Oona has thrown a jar of bugs before. Maybe she'll try throwing a jar of bees and O-Chul will be there to save the day.

[KorvinStarmast]

We also must include Minrah's expertise in sorting buttons, or her ability to crochet a doily! Now there's a great callback!

I think underwater basket weaving dates back to at least the 90s

From the Wiki:
Early use
The phrase in its pejorative sense has been used since at least the mid-1950s. It was certainly alive and well in the early -to mid 1970's as my brother and I approached the age of applying to colleges. Commentary on that faux major being offered came from my father. (I got a BSME)

[Edreyn]

I really, really hope that the soap part is NOT what I thought it is. :smalleek:

If it is... I better not comment. It's terrifying. I am being deadly serious.

I believe Metastachydium got same thoughts as me.

[Particle_Man]

I am on team Paladin and hope that it is bee-keeping, combined with a creative use of smoke rings.

What does GDGU stand for?

[Fish]

Astronomy could tell you approximately where and when you are. This could be useful for unexpected teleportation or time travel.

Soap-making could possibly mimic an AOE spell like grease, except it cannot be dispelled.

Crocheting could help fix Redcloak’s ragged, torn cloak.

Basket-weaving could be used to carry something you’re not able to carry in your hands, like something highly evil. (“Mum! Dad! It’s evil! Don’t touch it!” *FOOM*)

Beekeeping can tell you how to use smoke to make (normal) bees less aggressive. If you were surrounded by bees, you might cheese the rules about spell targeting and gain mobile cover. And blowing smoke rings, of course, ties to beekeeping. So clearly it’ll be this.

[Metastachydium]

What? I like bees.

And now I like you.


I dunno, it's kind of cute.

Because you are bad and you should feel bad.


I'm actually pondering about Minrah being able to crochet. What if they make a fake version of the Crimson Mantle or something?

The two of us may not understand the same thing by the term crochet.


Oona has thrown a jar of bugs before. Maybe she'll try throwing a jar of bees and O-Chul will be there to save the day.

Bees are hymenopteran rather than hemipteran insects.


What does GDGU stand for?

Good Deeds Gone Unpunished; the Azurite side-book.


I believe Metastachydium got same thoughts as me.

Yes, I'm afraid, but it is a grossly inappropriate topic, so let's indeed leave it at that.

[Peelee]

I am on team Paladin and hope that it is bee-keeping, combined with a creative use of smoke rings.

What does GDGU stand for?

Good Deeds Gone Unpunished. It's one of the pay-only supplemental books.

[skim172]

Obviously, all these skills will be used in conjunction to achieve victory.

Belkar knows how to make soap - with a little more material, he can also make explosives. Lien can blow smoke rings - which demonstrates an innate knowledge of the shaping and movement of combustion gases. O-Chul is an experienced beekeeper - from which we can assume he has absorbed the bees' genius for structure and design.

Put those three skillsets together, and we arrive at their obvious collaboration: a rocket ship. Belkar provides the fuel, Lien designs the engines, O-Chul does the material engineering.

V will use their astronomy knowledge to pilot their rocket. They'll take off into space and from there tackle the Snarl from orbit.

Minrah's crochet skills will give her the mastery to manipulate the Snarl as if it was yarn. And Durkon can use his basket weaving to construct tighter, more restrictive gates to seal the Snarl in. Between the two of them, they'll wind the Snarl into a new construct, one that resembles a tightly-wound yarn ball inside a basket.

Then Mr. Scruffy will play with the yarn.

[Quizatzhaderac]

My money is on the astronomy somehow being important.

My monopoly money is on the MitD turning out to be a swarm of bees.


Pff. Silly.
You can't make soap out of Xykon! It's an useless skill!If only one of them knew how to make gelatin. Surely then
MitD would fail his will save and eat Jello-Xykon whole.


Man, I'm glad I got ought of reading any of his stuff in school.Your school assigned Fight Club!?

[Metastachydium]

Minrah's crochet skills will give her the mastery to manipulate the Snarl as if it was yarn. And Durkon can use his basket weaving to construct tighter, more restrictive gates to seal the Snarl in. Between the two of them, they'll wind the Snarl into a new construct, one that resembles a tightly-wound yarn ball inside a basket.

…
Until proven otherwise (which I doubt will happen), I shall hereafter hold all of this true and canonical.

[LuPuWei]

And the betting begins. :biggrin:

[bunsen_h]

It's possible that Belkar's aversion to explaining his soap-making is because of an incident that was merely highly embarrassing, rather than horrific. "I knew that a bar of soap could be used to make a fake weapon to break out of jail. But obviously, so do the jailers, so they confiscate it if they catch you with soap. That's why, when they caught me, I had a packet of lye and a blob of tallow. It didn't turn out well."

In one of Leo Frankowski's Cross-Time Engineer books, he demonstrates his lack of understanding of soap-making. His protagonist, needing to clean lots of fleeces, reasons that soap is just fat or oil mixed with lye, and the fleeces already have lots of oil in them. So rather than the "unnecessary" step of first making soap before washing the fleeces, he'll just boil the fleeces with lye. Time and effort saved, and our engineer once again demonstrates that he's smarter than those medieval bumpkins!

Soap is the product of a chemical reaction between a fat or non-mineral oil and lye, not merely a mixture. Boiling animal hair in lye will degrade it pretty quickly.

It doesn't seem plausible to me that Serini has laid all of her cards on the table. I think she'd have held a few things in reserve, secret even from the Scribblers.

[Breccia]

I am, of course, profoundly disappointed in Durkon.

Baskets are often made of strips of wood. For Durkon, basket weaving would be spending hours desecrating the corpse of a foe slain in honorable combat.

[Metastachydium]

a foe slain in honorable combat.

Did you mean: "a shamelessly slaughtered innocent"?

[KorvinStarmast]

Belkar knows how to make soap - with a little more material, he can also make explosives. Lien can blow smoke rings - which demonstrates an innate knowledge of the shaping and movement of combustion gases. O-Chul is an experienced beekeeper - from which we can assume he has absorbed the bees' genius for structure and design.

Put those three skillsets together, and we arrive at their obvious collaboration: a rocket ship. Belkar provides the fuel, Lien designs the engines, O-Chul does the material engineering. Certain helicopters use a semi-monocoque honeycomb construction in their rotor blades (Hueys) so I'll go with a helicopter.

V will use their astronomy knowledge to pilot their rocket. They'll take off into space and from there tackle the Snarl from orbit.
V's astronomy provides jamming-proof celestial navigation to find Xykon's hidden fortress.
Minrah's crochet skills will give her the mastery to manipulate the Snarl as if it was yarn. And Durkon can use his basket weaving to construct tighter, more restrictive gates to seal the Snarl in. Between the two of them, they'll wind the Snarl into a new construct, one that resembles a tightly-wound yarn ball inside a basket.

Then Mr. Scruffy will play with the yarn. The basket's the weak spot there, but your last line ties perfectly into the first strip of this book (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1190.html). +many. :smallsmile:

I am still leaning a bit harder into Minrah's crochet resulting in a doily, which V will use to devastating effect (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0033.html).

[Peelee]

Helicopters aren't real. They are a fevered dream of mad engineers, who seek to hide the obvious magic flying devices they have constructed.

[Metastachydium]

What about VTOL-capable fixed wing aircraft?

[Particle_Man]

I hope MiTD is not a bee. That would mean death after the sting attack, and I *like* MiTD.

[KorvinStarmast]

Helicopters aren't real. They are a fevered dream of mad engineers, who seek to hide the obvious magic flying devices they have constructed. The amount of energy now provided by Igor Sikorsky spinning in his grave will power a small city. :smallcool:
By the start of World War I in 1914, Sikorsky's airplane research and production business in Kyiv was flourishing, and his factory made bombers during the war. After the Russian revolution in 1917, Igor Sikorsky fled his homeland, because the new Bolshevik regime threatened to shoot him. He moved to France where he was offered a contract for the design of a new, more powerful Muromets-type plane. But in November 1918 the war ended and the French government stopped subsidizing military orders, and so he decided to move to the United States. On March 24, 1919 he left France on the ocean liner Lorraine arriving in New York City on March 30, 1919.

[bunsen_h]

Belkar knows how to make soap - with a little more material, he can also make explosives.

"A little more material" involves concentrated nitrate, something powerfully acidic, and a strong dehydrating agent. Traditionally, this is done with a mixture of concentrated nitric and sulfuric acids, though I think one might be able to do it by dissolving something like saltpetre (sodium nitrate) in concentrated sulfuric acid. This is combined with glycerine which is left as a side product from soap-making, preferably under conditions which keep the temperature not-too-high. The reaction produces heat, and it speeds up at higher temperatures. If the reaction is done in quantity without cooling, you can get a chain reaction effect, producing lots of toxic gas, explosion of any product you've created so far, and spraying boiling-hot concentrated acid all over the place. This is better avoided.

A few months ago, I was working on dissolving some fine copper wire at home to make some copper compounds, towards getting some pretty crystals and another longer-term project. This involved putting the wire in concentrated hydrochloric acid (easily obtained in reasonably pure form from most hardware stores), and adding an oxidizing agent. I've had decent results with both bleach and hydrogen peroxide, but I thought I'd see what happened if I added some ammonium nitrate I've saved from old "instant cooling" gel packs. It seemed to be working okay, but more slowly than I expected. I tried warming the flask under hot water from the bathroom tap, and that speeded it up... and then I saw that brown gas was beginning to bubble out. I managed to get the flask outside before the reaction got completely out of control, and luckily, the volume of liquid I was working with was fairly small compared to the volume of the container, so nothing spewed.


Minrah's crochet skills will give her the mastery to manipulate the Snarl as if it was yarn. And Durkon can use his basket weaving to construct tighter, more restrictive gates to seal the Snarl in. Between the two of them, they'll wind the Snarl into a new construct, one that resembles a tightly-wound yarn ball inside a basket.

Then Mr. Scruffy will play with the yarn.

I don't know how intelligent Mr. Scruffy is in absolute terms. But I wouldn't want to have to work on a challenging string project in the immediate presence of a cat (https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070917).

[Peelee]

The amount of energy now provided by Igor Sikorsky spinning in his grave will power a small city. :smallcool:

But will not be flying because of the spinning. :smallamused:

[Quizatzhaderac]

But obviously, so do the jailers, so they confiscate it if they catch you with soap. That's why, when they caught me, I had a packet of lye and a blob of tallow. It didn't turn out well.I would think one should be more worried about prisoners having lye then paper-mache shivs.

[KorvinStarmast]

But will not be flying because of the spinning. :smallamused: You must spin to fly (see turbine engines powering the 737 you fly on your next trip) but not all spinning results in flying (see propellers spinning to propel submarines in water)

[Peelee]

You must spin to fly (see turbine engines powering the 737 you fly on your next trip) but not all spinning results in flying (see propellers spinning to propel submarines in water)

Yeah, but that's all vertical spinning. Horizontal spinning? And then, on top of that, cliaming the vertical spinning is for control? It's all a big sham, ya see! Wool (spun, of course) pulled over our eyes! They're spinning wrong and claiming it's right!

[skim172]

"A little more material" involves concentrated nitrate, something powerfully acidic, and a strong dehydrating agent. Traditionally, this is done with a mixture of concentrated nitric and sulfuric acids, though I think one might be able to do it by dissolving something like saltpetre (sodium nitrate) in concentrated sulfuric acid. This is combined with glycerine which is left as a side product from soap-making, preferably under conditions which keep the temperature not-too-high. The reaction produces heat, and it speeds up at higher temperatures. If the reaction is done in quantity without cooling, you can get a chain reaction effect, producing lots of toxic gas, explosion of any product you've created so far, and spraying boiling-hot concentrated acid all over the place. This is better avoided.

A few months ago, I was working on dissolving some fine copper wire at home to make some copper compounds, towards getting some pretty crystals and another longer-term project. This involved putting the wire in concentrated hydrochloric acid (easily obtained in reasonably pure form from most hardware stores), and adding an oxidizing agent. I've had decent results with both bleach and hydrogen peroxide, but I thought I'd see what happened if I added some ammonium nitrate I've saved from old "instant cooling" gel packs. It seemed to be working okay, but more slowly than I expected. I tried warming the flask under hot water from the bathroom tap, and that speeded it up... and then I saw that brown gas was beginning to bubble out. I managed to get the flask outside before the reaction got completely out of control, and luckily, the volume of liquid I was working with was fairly small compared to the volume of the container, so nothing spewed.

This is fascinating and informative, but I'm mildly concerned about your home hobbies - both for your personal safety and also that I might end up on a watchlist for reading about this...

[Metastachydium]

Yeah, but that's all vertical spinning. Horizontal spinning? And then, on top of that, cliaming the vertical spinning is for control? It's all a big sham, ya see! Wool (spun, of course) pulled over our eyes! They're spinning wrong and claiming it's right!

What about your weird Osprey things? They do both.


I might end up on a watchlist for reading about this...

I KNEW it! The geologists want to hoard all the pretty crystals for themselves! And they are watching!

[Peelee]

What about your weird Osprey things? They do both.

Ospreys are birds, they're real.


..... For now.

[Metastachydium]

Ospreys are birds, they're real.


Yes, I know that. They aren't weird either. They are cute. Bell Boeing V22-s on the other hand…

[bunsen_h]

This is fascinating and informative, but I'm mildly concerned about your home hobbies - both for your personal safety and also that I might end up on a watchlist for reading about this...

I don't think I've mentioned anything that wouldn't be in a good first-year general chemistry course and text, or any kind of second-year university organic chem course/text. So I'm not particularly concerned about its "security" issues. And I'm emphasizing the "here are the really bad outcomes that follow from being careless" element, so I'm comfortable with discussing them in an adult(-ish) open forum, as a matter of professional responsibility. I wouldn't describe potentially dangerous experiments in a way that would encourage ignorant people to take foolish risks. Ultimately, I'll leave it to the mods to censor if they feel it necessary, but I don't think I've crossed the line. (EDIT: I wouldn't go any farther in describing these things than I already have, though.)

As for my personal safety, well, this is stuff I've spent many years studying, and I try to be aware of potential risks. I wear safety equipment appropriate to my assessment of the hazards. In this case, I was aware that the reaction between acid, nitrate, and fine metal wires could take off, though I thought it unlikely, and I was working with small quantities. The flask was open-mouthed, so an explosion wasn't possible. I made sure that I pointed the mouth of the flask away from me. The worst possible outcome -- quite unlikely -- would have been a small amount of acid sprayed towards the wall and/or ceiling (messy to clean up, requiring baking soda to neutralize, and a slim possibility of needing to do some painting) and nasty gas which would have required me to keep the bathroom window open and door closed for a while.

[Lord Torath]

Oona launches the wasp jar.
O-Chun coordinates Lien's rings of smoke to calm them and put to sleep, put them in a improvised basket covered with a cloth with the writing "For the Crimson Mantle holder" cricheted on.
Redcloak, who is somehow wiser than that, says "I'm NOT falling for a so blatant trick!". As he does it, by virtue of drammatic irony, he bends to take an innocent soap bar from the ground.
"I see the moon!" declares Vaarsuvius (four words), and against The Giant's resolve, Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion returns from 1248 pages of retirement.I presume the moon V saw was green? Redcloak should have followed Nale's advice (p2 panel 2 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html)).


I hope MiTD is not a bee. That would mean death after the sting attack, and I *like* MiTD.Depends on the bee. There are thousands of bee species (some as small as 2mm long), and not all of them die when stinging. Bumblebees are a famous example.

[lenon3579]

The basket's the weak spot there, but your last line ties perfectly into the first strip of this book (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1190.html). +many. :smallsmile:



THERE!!! YOU GOT IT!!!

Durkon's gona use his weaving abilities to weave back the reality from undoing. He'll weave the threads (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html).

[Peelee]

I presume the moon V saw was green? Redcloak should have followed Nale's advice (p2 panel 2 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html)).

Depends on the bee. There are thousands of bee species (some as small as 2mm long), and not all of them die when stinging. Bumblebees are a famous example.

Bumblebees, now those can fly. Not like ridiculous "helicopters". We should have just made a bee-style flying machine.

[Xodiac]

Belkar probably knows how to make soap because his gam gam forced him to made his own before washing his mouth out with it as a young 'un.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Prediction: The astronomy thing will be the thing that comes in handy. Also, Elan's puppet. So it will be two things that save the day somehow. Astronomy because Haley specifically reminded V to consider all their skills whether they seem relevant or not, and V has the mental discipline to actually heed that advice.

Elan's puppet because it has already been established that the seemingly useless puppet can solve situations. Even if it is silly.

Also, shouldn't Roy be happy that the day gets saved? Even if something silly makes it happen, I will take silly continued existence over everlasting serious nonexistence.

[Lord Torath]

Ospreys are birds, they're real. Are you sure? (https://birdsarentreal.com/) (just kidding! The guy who started the Birds Aren't Real movement meant it to mock other conspiracy theories)

[Robots]

Because you are bad and you should feel bad.

Hey, is there something wrong with finding 55-year old dwarf men cute? (The answer: Probably.)

[Peelee]

Are you sure? (https://birdsarentreal.com/) (just kidding! The guy who started the Birds Aren't Real movement meant it to mock other conspiracy theories)

That's why it's so delightful! The whole helicopter thing I do is not too dissimilar, it's to emphasize how impressive it is that we were able to create wingless aircraft that can hover and fly backwards, both incredibly difficult feats to pull off (only one bird can do either of these!). And compact to boot! They're engineering marvels, we created flying cars over fifty years ago and people just don't want to give them their fair credit.

[ooknabah]

I didn't see anybody mention this, but I am posting for the first time in years to do so: The misdirect is that it's going to be all of them. Every single one is going to help in the end.

[Elkad]

My. Belkar's secret skill is… Ominous. The most ominous thing I've seen 'round here in a while. (I'm not kidding. Don't ask why.)


Yup.
No, it's not Fight Club.
Question is, does he have a pressure cooker to do it right?

[Sorator]

That's why it's so delightful! The whole helicopter thing I do is not too dissimilar, it's to emphasize how impressive it is that we were able to create wingless aircraft that can hover and fly backwards, both incredibly difficult feats to pull off (only one bird can do either of these!). And compact to boot! They're engineering marvels, we created flying cars over fifty years ago and people just don't want to give them their fair credit.

Only one bird can do either of those things? I'd guess hummingbirds, but now I'm curious!

[Peelee]

Only one bird can do either of those things? I'd guess hummingbirds, but now I'm curious!

You would be correct!

[Dame_Mechanus]

That's why it's so delightful! The whole helicopter thing I do is not too dissimilar, it's to emphasize how impressive it is that we were able to create wingless aircraft that can hover and fly backwards, both incredibly difficult feats to pull off (only one bird can do either of these!). And compact to boot! They're engineering marvels, we created flying cars over fifty years ago and people just don't want to give them their fair credit.

My conscience will not permit me to avoid this conversation diving into delightful helikopter lore (https://youtu.be/vatcloy9FRA). (Which also delighted my father-in-law, who worked for Sikorsky until he retired a few years back.)

[The MunchKING]

Pff. Silly.
You can't make soap out of Xykon! It's an useless skill!

It's made of animal fat, and Xykon's got no fat on him.


Vaarsuvius is a saiyan, headcannon'd.

Oh like one of those would live 100 years. Let alone put up with being potty trained for 40 of them. :smalltongue:

[MaverickMopete]

It's beekeeping that will save the day.

Because bees.

There, I said it.

[t209]

I will make a prediction based on “all of the above” answer.
Minrah will make bee keeping outfit while Durkon either make basket for honey or medieval beekeeper gear (https://i.etsystatic.com/29409070/r/il/a4cc44/3049536430/il_570xN.3049536430_bqio.jpg). Then Lien would blow smoke on the hive while O-Chul maintain the red. Finally, Belkar will turn the wax into soap.
Definitely dealing with bee related obstacle in the future or something all of them operating an apiary after the comic is over.

[WanderingMist]

Bumblebees, now those can fly. Not like ridiculous "helicopters". We should have just made a bee-style flying machine.

Um, duh, helicopters can fly because their rotors make an inverted invisible tornado which sucks them up into the sky. I have no idea if this is how helicopters actually work.

[Ruck]

Wait a minute...... Belkar's unique thing is a reference to fight club! They mention in that movie how close making soap is to making explosives, and belkar's credo has always been "when in doubt, set it on fire." He learned soap while learning to make things blow up!

Heh, I see I'm not the only one who thought of Fight Club, although I'm not terribly surprised. (Also, I don't think I've seen it since it was in theaters... might be time again.)

Aside, I wasn't expecting to be back visiting the good guys already, but I'm happy to be doing so. Things are in motion! O-Chul's dialogue in the first panel cracked me up; that might as well be the Giant telling us "I'm not going to tell you what those skills are that you don't know already, so I can pull them out later for dramatic effect."

(I had other posts quoted but my phone ate them, and also while I was catching up on the thread other people answered the points I was going to answer anyway.)

[cZak]

Is it against forum rules to have a bookie make odds on what the 'future save the day talent' will be..?

[Dame_Mechanus]

I like how everyone jumped to the most horrifying possible explanations for Belkar making soap and no one seems to have considered that it's possible Belkar just... makes really lovely scented soaps and doesn't want anyone to know about it. I mean, really, which seems more likely: That he'd be reluctant to tell people about a horrifying method of killing another sentient, living creature, or that he'd be horrified about people learning that he actually has sensitive and compassionate parts of himself even before his recent character development?

[Lexible]

My. Belkar's secret skill is… Ominous. The most ominous thing I've seen 'round here in a while. (I'm not kidding. Don't ask why.)

Is it because you've seen Fight Club?

[PontificatusRex]

Okay, that is hands on, no question, the most creepy and disturbing thing Belkar has ever said.

And not because of Fight Club.

[Coventry]

Sigh ... so many people doing the same that Roy is doing ... assuming that it will be only one of those skills that saves the day.

[Jay R]

Originally, The Order of the Stick was a comic about D&D player characters who had no players.

Now it's about D&D player characters who are their own players.

[runeghost]

Prediction for obscure skill that will save the day: Durkon and Minrah's basketweaving and crocheting skills, of course. Because the great lurking thing that threatens the world is called The Snarl.

[Duiker]

My main thought is, "When was the last time MitD took a bath?"

[GreatWyrmGold]

The whole helicopter thing I do is not too dissimilar, it's to emphasize how impressive it is that we were able to create wingless aircraft that can hover and fly backwards...
The rotors are basically just wings that we move around. They have the same profile, they have the same function, they're more like airplane wings than bird wings are like fly wings.


Anyways...my bet on "skill that saves the day" is astronomy. With a secondary bet on smoke rings.

[Psyren]

Yeah, but the prisoners don't make the soap. Whittling would be a relevant skill for making soap shivs. Soap making is defo a Fight Club reference.

I wouldn't put it past Belkar to both make soap and then make a shiv out of it.


The shredded corpses of his enemies, cut into thin strips and dried.

Durkon is hard-core.

Does he even have a knife?

[Swiftbow]

I choose to believe O-Chul became an apiarist for environmental reasons.

Ironically, the idea that bees are endangered HAS created a lot of apiarists.

The problem, though, is that domestic honeybees are NOT endangered. They're usually more accurately classifed as livestock (at least outside of Europe), and actually an invasive species in a lot of areas that aren't Europe. (The articles about endangered bees are mostly about OTHER types of bees... not honeybees. But the average person who doesn't binge wikipedia often thinks there's only one kind of bee.)

As an invasive species, domestic (usually European) honeybees often outcompete native pollinators, including wild bees and other insects. This has led to THOSE bee species sometimes becoming endangered. Many of those native species are also better at pollinating the local plants than honeybees... who are rather generalist and often spread pollen from one flower to a flower of another species, which doesn't do much.

The news articles about colony collapse disorder are the main culprit behind the whole misconception. But the problem is that colony collapse disorder is kind of like mad cow disease... it was a problem affecting domesticated colonies that has mostly been solved.

And so, the HUGE uptick in beekeeping has resulted in problems for other bees. Not that I'm against beekeeping... but it should be noted and people also need to understand that honeybees are NOT the only pollinators, nor are all plants pollinated by insects (many are pollinated by the wind).

Anyway... in the OotS world, I rather doubt that any of the above applies at all. So it would be my hope that O'Chul learned to raise bees because he likes to eat honey.


Wait a minute...... Belkar's unique thing is a reference to fight club! They mention in that movie how close making soap is to making explosives, and belkar's credo has always been "when in doubt, set it on fire." He learned soap while learning to make things blow up!

Not quite. Soap is made with lye, which is a byproduct of the breakdown of fat. Since we're being coy, you can look up how early humans discovered it.

[Pinkie Pyro]

Money on the table: Durkon's basket weaving will be relevant later when dealing with the snarl.

[bunsen_h]

It's made of animal fat, and Xykon's got no fat on him.

Oh, you can do it with just the magic bone in the pot. And water, of course. But it's better if you put in a bit of fat, maybe. Does anyone here have a bit of fat we can add to the pot? Good, good. Now perhaps a bit of scent. Can anyone contribute a bit of scent? Lovely, thanks. It's going great. It's going to be great soap. Now what would make it superb soap is if we add just a smidgen of lye. It would be a real shame if we couldn't do that. Does anyone perhaps have just a tiny bit of lye? Thanks, that's just wonderful. We'll just let it cook for a while. It's gonna be the best soap in the world. And all from just a magic bone.


Not quite. Soap is made with lye, which is a byproduct of the breakdown of fat. Since we're being coy, you can look up how early humans discovered it.

Soap is made from lye, which traditionally is made by dripping water through wood ash, and from some kind of animal or vegetable fat or oil. The classic lye consists primarily of potassium hydroxide, but modern lye, which is manufactured by other means, is generally sodium hydroxide. The hydroxide reacts with the oil or fat, breaking it down into glycerine and the salts of fatty acids; that reaction is known as saponification (from the Latin "sapo" = "soap"). Those fatty-acid salts are the soap.

[ben-zayb]

Is it too late for V to learn Bardic Music from Elan? Sublime Chord needs 6 ranks of Profession (astrologer), which matches V's years of experience...

[Michaeler]

Makes sense, soap contains some seriously nasty chemicals. No big surprise that Belkar can make lye (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lye#Tissue_digestion).

[HorizonWalker]

Just to make sure I understand why some of us are freaking out about Belkar the serial killer soapmaker:

Lye is a highly caustic chemical that does horrible things to organic matter. Lye is also a precursor reagent that turns lipids into soap.

Someone may be suggesting that Belkar learned to make soap by dissolving dead bodies in lye, and noticing that the body fat has turned into soap in the process.

EDITED TO ADD: And if you're wondering why Belkar would dissolve dead bodies in lye, it's because he's a criminal, and he's very likely had to dispose of a corpse to avoid legal consequences.

[Laurentio III]

EDITED TO ADD: And if you're wondering why Belkar would dissolve dead bodies in lye, it's because he's a criminal, and he's very likely had to dispose of a corpse to avoid legal consequences.
So he turned to a life as an adventurer, so that littering bodies around is a no issue?

Adventuring. The paradise of killer hobos.

[enq]

Is it too late for V to learn Bardic Music from Elan? Sublime Chord needs 6 ranks of Profession (astrologer), which matches V's years of experience...
*ahem* V studied astronomy, not astrology, so that's not gonna work. But, it sure would be amusing if V wanted to learn from Elan.

BTW, do you really get [the equivalent of] a skill point for studying something for a year? Because then it should be elves with the bonus skill points, not humans.

[mjasghar]

Not quite. Soap is made with lye, which is a byproduct of the breakdown of fat. Since we're being coy, you can look up how early humans discovered it.

Ummm lye is made from wood ash or alternatively banana peels and olive tree ash

[Shining Wrath]

There are many reasons why a person might learn to make soap. In Belkar's case, since he doesn't want to discuss it, it's got to be a way to get away with violent crime. Maybe body disposal, maybe washing away blood stains.

[Adun]

Has Roy gained a bard level? It seems he can read between the lines of the story...

[Laurentio III]

There are many reasons why a person might learn to make soap. In Belkar's case, since he doesn't want to discuss it, it's got to be a way to get away with violent crime. Maybe body disposal, maybe washing away blood stains.
Or, he likes scented soap baths, and doesn't want to discuss It.

[KorvinStarmast]

My conscience will not permit me to avoid this conversation diving into delightful helikopter lore (https://youtu.be/vatcloy9FRA). (Which also delighted my father-in-law, who worked for Sikorsky until he retired a few years back.) I've driven over that bridge on the parkway a few times, the one that goes by the factory, but I was never employed there.
Prediction for obscure skill that will save the day: Durkon and Minrah's basketweaving and crocheting skills, of course. Because the great lurking thing that threatens the world is called The Snarl. Not a bad guess.

The rotors are basically just wings that we move around. They have the same profile, they have the same function, they're more like airplane wings than bird wings are like fly wings. There is a technical term for that: Rotary Wing Aviation. :smallsmile: (As opposed to Fixed Wing Aviation). Types of Rotary Wing Aircraft include helicopter, autogyro, and gyrodyne.

So he turned to a life as an adventurer, so that littering bodies around is a no issue? Adventuring. The paradise of killer hobos. Yes. And he has a refined sense of smell, so perhaps his boyhood employment was in a soap making shop.

[Eric the White]

Or, he likes scented soap baths, and doesn't want to discuss It.

He has remarked on how smelly humans are as compared to dwarves, halflings, and gnomes.

[Riftwolf]

Could the 'making soap but don't want to talk about it be a simple Fight Club reference?
Been a while since I saw/read it but Project Mayhem(?) was funded by soap manufacturing (also a cover for explosives production) and the first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about it.

[Charity322]

My. Belkar's secret skill is… Ominous. The most ominous thing I've seen 'round here in a while. (I'm not kidding. Don't ask why.)

It's fine as long as he doesn't drop it.

[Ionathus]

I like how everyone jumped to the most horrifying possible explanations for Belkar making soap and no one seems to have considered that it's possible Belkar just... makes really lovely scented soaps and doesn't want anyone to know about it. I mean, really, which seems more likely: That he'd be reluctant to tell people about a horrifying method of killing another sentient, living creature, or that he'd be horrified about people learning that he actually has sensitive and compassionate parts of himself even before his recent character development?

Dammit, I think you're right here.

[Laurentio III]

Could the 'making soap but don't want to talk about it be a simple Fight Club reference?
Been a while since I saw/read it but Project Mayhem(?) was funded by soap manufacturing (also a cover for explosives production) and the first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about it.
And the second one?

[danielxcutter]

I like how everyone jumped to the most horrifying possible explanations for Belkar making soap and no one seems to have considered that it's possible Belkar just... makes really lovely scented soaps and doesn't want anyone to know about it. I mean, really, which seems more likely: That he'd be reluctant to tell people about a horrifying method of killing another sentient, living creature, or that he'd be horrified about people learning that he actually has sensitive and compassionate parts of himself even before his recent character development?

I mean, him not wanting to talk about the horrifying murder thing now seems very plausible.

[The Shadow]

I don't think the soap making is a reference to Fight Club. Belkar would regard Project Mayhem as a bunch of losers.

My first thought was body disposal.

[b_jonas]

Panel 5, Durkon's line has a typo, “tooka” should be “took a” instead.


I vote experienced beekeeper because Oona used bees earlier! That's what I thought too, but it turns out they aren't actually bees, they're some kind of more annoying bugs. Very appropriate. You can see them in #1214 7th panel. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html) So I have no guess as to which of these will become relevant.

[masamune1]

I think it is a Fight Club reference but I don't think it means he agrees with the politics of Project Mayhem- it just means he knows how to turn soap into explosions.

[Wraithfighter]

I love that Lien is indeed still salty about the puppet sacrifice incident.

I just like seeing Paladins being so human in little ways. Its so easy to write them as incorruptible paragons, noble supermen types, or one-good-push-away-from-despotic-blackguard territory. And don't get me wrong, I love O-chul, he's an utterly fantastic example of a Paragon-type Paladin.

But a Paladin who Grumbles is fun too, dang it! I mean, you know that Lien would never actually do anything in response to the whole Puppet shenanigans. If Elan and his damnable puppet were in danger, she'd be among the first to dive in to save him. That's not going to stop her from grumbling and grousing about it when it becomes relevant, though.

It's fun because it keeps "being a Paladin" from feeling like something that's impossible for "normal" people, for lack of a better word. She has a temper. She holds grudges. She grumbles. And that's (largely) fine, because when it comes down to brass tacks, she will do the right thing in the right moment...

[Sigako]

To me it sounds indeed like corpse disposal, and also that either he learned it at some very embarassing circumstances or doesn't want everyone else to waste time and nerves overreacting, because they're in the middle of important meeting.
Also, everyone else knowing that not only he's a gourmet chef, but also makes scented soap and does other non-horrible things would be pretty embarassing for him.
If you combine that with corpse disposal - well, he has every reason to keep silent.

[Peelee]

To me it sounds indeed like corpse disposal, and also that either he learned it at some very embarassing circumstances or doesn't want everyone else to waste time and nerves overreacting, because they're in the middle of important meeting.
Also, everyone else knowing that not only he's a gourmet chef, but also makes scented soap and does other non-horrible things would be pretty embarassing for him.
If you combine that with corpse disposal - well, he has every reason to keep silent.

He's never been embarrassed about being a gourmet chef. Quite the opposite, he's taken pride in it. If anything, he has tried to move away from being openly psychotic, especially with new people who are not familiar with his past (eg gnome shopkeeper and Minrah).

[Laurentio III]

He's never been embarrassed about being a gourmet chef. Quite the opposite, he's taken pride in it. If anything, he has tried to move away from being openly psychotic, especially with new people who are not familiar with his past (eg gnome shopkeeper and Minrah).
He is an hobbit. Cousine is a cultural thing.
To say, Belkar is ashamed to have feelings for animals, and his peaceful dream is preparing a meal to Shojo. He could love scented baths and being not inclined to share.

But, I wouldn't rule out forensical reasons.

[Sigako]

He is an hobbit. Cousine is a cultural thing.
To say, Belkar is ashamed to have feelings for animals, and his peaceful dream is preparing a meal to Shojo. He could love scented baths and being not inclined to share.

But, I wouldn't rule out forensical reasons.

I would combine these. After all, corpses do begin to stink very quickly.

[Ruck]

I don't think the soap making is a reference to Fight Club. Belkar would regard Project Mayhem as a bunch of losers.

My first thought was body disposal.

I don't think the Fight Club reference was suggested to be an in-universe one.

[Peelee]

I don't think the Fight Club reference was suggested to be an in-universe one.

Agreed. I certainly never intended it as such. It's just the easiest and most well-known "dark backstory" for knowing how to make soap.

[Grey Watcher]

"I am an experienced beekeeper". I really did not see that one coming. Thanks, Giant! :smallbiggrin:

It's almost un-bee-lievable!

[elros]

I wonder how many skill points each of the characters have. Serini must have the most, and I suspect that either Minrah (mid-level fighter/cleric) or one of the paladins have the fewest.

[Gnome Alone]

"I could blow smoke rings if I still smoked" has got to be the funniest skill point expenditure joke ever

[Metastachydium]

I suspect that either Minrah (mid-level fighter/cleric) or one of the paladins have the fewest.

My guess would be Elan. He did dump INT. Hard.

[ManuelSacha]

I vote for basket-weavin'! :smallbiggrin:

[skim172]

He has remarked on how smelly humans are as compared to dwarves, halflings, and gnomes.

Y'know, unless they're spending time off-screen every morning to take a dip in a nearby source of water, the OOTS guys probably do smell pretty bad.

Perhaps, to a sensitive halfling's sense of smell, proper hygiene is extremely important. And soapmaking is a skill that is passed on to every halfling from childhood on.

As for why he says, "don't ask" - obviously, halfling families are very protective of their individual soapmaking recipes. Belkar isn't gonna give away any details about his generations-old secrets. It's not just a matter of proprietary rights - in the olden days, when warring halfling tribes stalked each other in the jungle, halflings used their powerful sense of smell to track down enemies. Soap was a critical tool of warfare to disguise your tracks. An enemy getting ahold of your soap recipes is like getting the codebook to an enemy's encryptions - they could track you down anywhere.

And thus, even now, those old traditions remain.

Spending time among non-halflings, Belkar must be horrified at their lack of soap knowledge. What primitive cultures these must be, who have yet to invent Tide pods?

[Reboot]

*ahem* V studied astronomy, not astrology, so that's not gonna work. But, it sure would be amusing if V wanted to learn from Elan.

BTW, do you really get [the equivalent of] a skill point for studying something for a year? Because then it should be elves with the bonus skill points, not humans.

I mean, elves live a lot longer than humans, but they apparently also take a lot longer to learn anything. Otherwise, elves should always be a dozen levels ahead of a human who's lived a similar life and is in a similar age category... and they're just not. (It took V a century to learn a first-level spell (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0126.html). Eugene was only 78 when he died For Real, and was a high-level wizard PLUS got resurrected six times, so presumably lost that many levels - if he took as long as V had to learn, he could literally never have cast more than a cantrip.)

[WanderingMist]

Ironically, the idea that bees are endangered HAS created a lot of apiarists.

The problem, though, is that domestic honeybees are NOT endangered. They're usually more accurately classified as livestock (at least outside of Europe), and actually an invasive species in a lot of areas that aren't Europe. (The articles about endangered bees are mostly about OTHER types of bees... not honeybees. But the average person who doesn't binge wikipedia often thinks there's only one kind of bee.)


Oh, that's ridiculous. Everyone knows there's TWO types of bee: honey and bumble.

[Riftwolf]

My guess would be Elan. He did dump INT. Hard.
*Puts on rule glasses*
Bards get 6±Int skill points, Fighters, Clerics and Paladins all get 2±Int. Humans get an extra skill point too.
So Elan gets more skill points at 2 Intelligence than Durkon and Minrah get at Int 10, and the Paladins would be tied. There's no evidence Elan dumped Int that hard. (He can still talk and know things)
*Takes off rule glasses*

[Zakaarus]

my money is on a smoke ring signal or star based navigation at night

[DragonBob]

You know this panel is really just to mention the puppet. Seriously it has divine powers, no connection to another pantheon, and an unknown number of worshipers. AKA it might fit the requirements for sealing the snarl.

[WanderingMist]

You know this panel is really just to mention the puppet. Seriously it has divine powers, no connection to another pantheon, and an unknown number of worshipers. AKA it might fit the requirements for sealing the snarl.

Even if Banjo did fit the number of worshippers and had his own color, it's unlikely that any of the orcs on that island have a 9th-level spell slot, and we know Elan doesn't.

[brian 333]

Even if Banjo did fit the number of worshippers and had his own color, it's unlikely that any of the orcs on that island have a 9th-level spell slot, and we know Elan doesn't.

Banjo's brother Giggles, the puppet god of slapstick, is the one with all the worshipers, so good luck with that.

[Tom the Mime]

So Ochul potential MVP against Oona? (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html)

[WanderingMist]

Banjo's brother, the puppet god of slapstick, is the one with all the worshipers so good luck with that.

They're rivals, remember? So that makes Banjo equally powerful to Giggles by default.

[Ruck]

You know this panel is really just to mention the puppet. Seriously it has divine powers, no connection to another pantheon, and an unknown number of worshipers. AKA it might fit the requirements for sealing the snarl.

I think it's more likely this strip is to mention the powers that won't come up.

[The MunchKING]

Oh, that's ridiculous. Everyone knows there's TWO types of bee: honey and bumble.

You can't forget "killer". :smalleek:

[WanderingMist]

You can't forget "killer". :smalleek:

No, that's just a subset of "honeybee", the proper term being "Africanized".

[Thecommander236]

I bet anything Belkar knows how to make soup out of fat because he used that skill to help depose of bodies.

[gerryq]

Not gonna lie, this strip didn't do much for me. But I figure Rich has some action lined up, and this quiet interlude is just for contrast.

[danielxcutter]

Not gonna lie, this strip didn't do much for me. But I figure Rich has some action lined up, and this quiet interlude is just for contrast.

You can't run at full speed for the entire story, after all. You need some breathers in between.

[gerryq]

I guess it shows the full team - including Serini - are now on board.

[danielxcutter]

That too, yes. As well as contradicting the obvious conflict shown in the past couple of strips with Team Evil.

[Dame_Mechanus]

Not gonna lie, this strip didn't do much for me. But I figure Rich has some action lined up, and this quiet interlude is just for contrast.

See, honestly, I really like this strip. Not because it made me laugh out loud - it didn't - but because it takes the time to really flesh out the cast in a way that we haven't really seen up until now, and probably won't get the time to dive into again. The story is not going to give us many more opportunities for everyone to just sit around and talk, and joking aside it seems possible that despite Roy's irritation, none of these skills will actually be relevant in the final conflict.

But in this moment we get a look at all of the characters in a depth we haven't previously seen. As far as I'm aware, for example, we've never before heard about Lien having smoked at all. We've never heard that O-Chul keeps bees. As many people are trying to ascribe ominous meanings to Belkar knowing how to make soap, it enriches his character because now we know he knows how to make soap. Sure, we can speculate about why and there are lots of possible reasons, some horrifying and some just mundane (he was an apprentice soap-maker and hated it, doesn't like talking about it, but he still remembers the process), but the point is that it enriches the character all the same.

So yeah, it's nice to be reminded that all of these people have non-world-saving lives to go back to after this is all over. Most of them, anyway. (Theoretically Belkar does but he's not going to live long enough for that to matter.)

[Red XIV]

There are many reasons why a person might learn to make soap. In Belkar's case, since he doesn't want to discuss it, it's got to be a way to get away with violent crime. Maybe body disposal, maybe washing away blood stains.

That would've been my first thought, since it's Belkar.

But then I realized that if it's something Belkar finds embarrassing it probably isn't related to murder.

[Xirdus]

Wait a minute...... Belkar's unique thing is a reference to fight club! They mention in that movie how close making soap is to making explosives, and belkar's credo has always been "when in doubt, set it on fire." He learned soap while learning to make things blow up!

Oh good. I thought it's the other evil soap thing.

[bunsen_h]

he used that skill to help depose of bodies.

That's usually done with the Speak With Dead (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) spell, which doesn't have a material component.

[Ruck]

Not gonna lie, this strip didn't do much for me. But I figure Rich has some action lined up, and this quiet interlude is just for contrast.
It's the first page of a chapter.


As far as I'm aware, for example, we've never before heard about Lien having smoked at all.

Lien smokes in her GDGU story, but that's set about 10-12 years before the main story.

[Hytheter]

I really hope we see 4 of these 5 talents almost but not quite save the day before the fifth finally does.

[mjasghar]

I mean, elves live a lot longer than humans, but they apparently also take a lot longer to learn anything. Otherwise, elves should always be a dozen levels ahead of a human who's lived a similar life and is in a similar age category... and they're just not. (It took V a century to learn a first-level spell (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0126.html). Eugene was only 78 when he died For Real, and was a high-level wizard PLUS got resurrected six times, so presumably lost that many levels - if he took as long as V had to learn, he could literally never have cast more than a cantrip.)

It’s an old trope that elves and other long lived races spend most of their time doing other stuff so don’t advance as much
This should be represented by many artisan skills but isn’t in game.
Also they likely only spend a small part of their life adventuring which is when they will get the most levels
And finally their society is top heavy with elders keeping the youngsters form advancing

[Metastachydium]

*Puts on rule glasses*
Bards get 6±Int skill points, Fighters, Clerics and Paladins all get 2±Int. Humans get an extra skill point too.
So Elan gets more skill points at 2 Intelligence than Durkon and Minrah get at Int 10, and the Paladins would be tied. There's no evidence Elan dumped Int that hard. (He can still talk and know things)
*Takes off rule glasses*

Not exactly! At INT 3 (the minimum allowed for PCs), he'd have a -4 modifier for 2 points/level, and that's assuming skill points are retroactive (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html).

[Mr. Wonderful]

Hello, just checking in to point out something that both amused and delighted me.

The rest of the party has absorbed completely Elan's advanced understanding of story construction. Roy knows without prompting that someone - or several someones in the party - have "spoken into existence" a future encounter where their obscure skill will be used triumphantly and hilariously to pull their bacon out of the fire.

It wouldn't surprise me to see them actively considering these skills in future encounters only to decide "not yet" - the author is cheeky this way.

Truly, Elan is the wisest of them all, a Boddhisatva of plot.

[Quizatzhaderac]

It just occurred to me that O-Chul merely said that he was an experienced beekeeper, not skilled, not trained, and not that his experiences were good.


No, that's just a subset of "honeybee", the proper term being "Africanized".Right fact, wrong world.

In a proper fantasy world, killer bees are their own distinct type, with a stronger sting, and attack for literally no reason.

[Crimsonmantle]

If MitD were a bee, O-Chul would know. So that's right out.

[Roland Itiative]

Personally hoping for ALL of those skills being useful in the near future. Preferably working together somehow.

[Laurentio III]

If MitD were a bee, O-Chul would know. So that's right out.
It could be a bee-like but not true bee monster. Like a Hellwasp hive (it has been proposed recently).

[Peelee]

If MitD were a bee, O-Chul would know. So that's right out.

Where do you think O-Chul got his beekkeeppiinngg experience from?

[hroþila]

Where do you think O-Chul got his beekkeeppiinngg experience from?
That explains why Lien wouldn't believe O-Chul if he told her. She would probably find it impossible, because according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way that a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyways. Because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.

[Peelee]

That explains why Lien wouldn't believe O-Chul if he told her. She would probably find it impossible, because according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way that a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyways. Because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.

Man, it's hard to describe how much I hate that spiel. Mostly becuase the valedictorian used it in her speech at my high school.

[Malto]

Maybe someone pointed this out already. In my mind the way Lien leans against the wall with one leg bent forward is the exact clichéed position of someone smoking a cigarette. I would see hundreds of movie characters relaxing to a cigarette, and myself as well.
I like to think that the Giant did this on purpose, given Lien's hidden skill.

Edited: One word for cigarette was not well accepted!

[Peelee]

Maybe someone pointed this out already. In my mind the way Lien leans against the wall with one leg bent forward is the exact clichéed position of someone smoking a cigarette. I would see hundreds of movie characters relaxing to a cigarette, and myself as well.
I like to think that the Giant did this on purpose, given Lien's hidden skill.

Edited: One word for cigarette was not well accepted!

IIRC she does the same pose when she smokes in her Good Deeds Gone Unpunished story.

[brian 333]

Man, it's hard to describe how much I hate that spiel. Mostly becuase the valedictorian used it in her speech at my high school.

I hate that one as well, even though I never graduated.

The arrogance of someone who poorly understands a scientific fact declaring that fact cannot exist because it is poorly understood!

Reminds me of the Kansas farmer who, upon seeing a giraffe, declares, "There ain't no such animal."

I've thought about it and decided that the skills we've seen are just for fun. They won't be important, other than for forum speculation.

What I like best about the strip is how it reminded me of old school tabletop game night, except for that absence of Cheetos bags and Mountain Dew bottles. And dicebags.

[skim172]

I bet anything Belkar knows how to make soup out of fat because he used that skill to help depose of bodies.That's usually done with the Speak With Dead (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) spell, which doesn't have a material component.

I feel like this reply didn't get the recognition it deserves.

[The MunchKING]

Man, it's hard to describe how much I hate that spiel. Mostly becuase the valedictorian used it in her speech at my high school.

Also it's not true. Scientists have known for ages how bees fly, which is why they were really surprised when everyone said they didn't.

[Peelee]

Also it's not true. Scientists have known for ages how bees fly, which is why they were really surprised when everyone said they didn't.

Hence my hatred of it, and especially its use in a ****ing commencement speech by the valedictorian.

[Metastachydium]

Also it's not true. Scientists have known for ages how bees fly, which is why they were really surprised when everyone said they didn't.

Hence my hatred of it, and especially its use in a ****ing commencement speech by the valedictorian.
On the flip side, bumblebees are some incredibly cute and fuzzy fishes (https://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/documents/C093542.PDF) and I like them a lot.

[hroþila]

I'm like 80% sure that nobody ever references it because they believe it's inspiring, much less scientifically accurate, but because it's a dumb line from a dumb movie that became a meme

I hope

[Dame_Mechanus]

I'm like 80% sure that nobody ever references it because they believe it's inspiring, much less scientifically accurate, but because it's a dumb line from a dumb movie that became a meme

I hope

I hate to disabuse you of this notion, but no, it's been used seriously for quite some time. And while I am not entirely sure of Peelee's age, based on other context clues I feel reasonably confident stating that he graduated from high school some time prior to 2007.

The worst part is that the quote was, in fact, the original quote was not meant to be inspiring but to be a joke about lack of knowledge. If you apply the laws of fixed-wing aviation to a bumblebee, no, it should not be able to fly. But since it obviously can, that means that those laws are inaccurate and you need to refine your approach. When something shouldn't be possible according to existing knowledge but visibly is happening, your understanding is flawed.

[Peelee]

I hate to disabuse you of this notion, but no, it's been used seriously for quite some time. And while I am not entirely sure of Peelee's age, based on other context clues I feel reasonably confident stating that he graduated from high school some time prior to 2007.

The worst part is that the quote was, in fact, the original quote was not meant to be inspiring but to be a joke about lack of knowledge. If you apply the laws of fixed-wing aviation to a bumblebee, no, it should not be able to fly. But since it obviously can, that means that those laws are inaccurate and you need to refine your approach. When something shouldn't be possible according to existing knowledge but visibly is happening, your understanding is flawed.

I don't even know what movie is being referenced, but yes, my impression on hearing it was "that doesn't mean the bee can't fly, that means the laws of aerodynamics are wrong". And that was not now how the valedictorian presented it. Hence my rage.

Also, I graduated high school at some point between 1990 and 2010.:smalltongue:

[Endarire]

The D&D crew plays D&D!

(And soapmaking is probably for making casts of keys and other things illicitly.)

[WanderingMist]

Man, it's hard to describe how much I hate that spiel. Mostly because the valedictorian used it in her speech at my high school.

Unfortunate. Being friends with my high school's valedictorian let me convince him to put "to be the very best, like no one ever was" into his speech.

[elros]

Not gonna lie, this strip didn't do much for me. But I figure Rich has some action lined up, and this quiet interlude is just for contrast.
I think the Giant put it in to tease the readers that the characters know all of their skills, but we do not and never will :smallmad:

[JonahFalcon]

I now want the Order to do a D&D campaign with themselves as PCs, since they have their own character sheets. Let's go meta, folks.

[F.Harr]

As much as I think it's going to turn out that this is all going to wind up bringing Xykon right to the edge of victory, I'm really enjoying the idea that they'll ALL be useful :)

[Nomen]

I don't even know what movie is being referenced, but yes, my impression on hearing it was "that doesn't mean the bee can't fly, that means the laws of aerodynamics are wrong". And that was not now how the valedictorian presented it. Hence my rage.

Also, I graduated high school at some point between 1990 and 2010.:smalltongue:

Its a dumb movie which confuses pollin with fairydust.

[Elkad]

Y'know, unless they're spending time off-screen every morning to take a dip in a nearby source of water, the OOTS guys probably do smell pretty bad.

Both V and Elan can clean "1 cubic foot per round" for an entire hour (600 rounds) with a single casting of the Prestidigitation cantrip.
I figure there is a good chance Haley has a wand as well.

Or Durkon and Min should both have Create Water, and you can bathe the normal way.

[Psychronia]

My vote is absolutely on all of the skills being relevant later, but I wanna give a special shoutout to basket weaving and crochet being relevant to weaving the Snarl's prison.

Even beyond this final showdown, there's evidently something going on with the Snarl that not even the gods are aware of.

[Laurentio III]

My vote is absolutely on all of the skills being relevant later, but I wanna give a special shoutout to basket weaving and crochet being relevant to weaving the Snarl's prison.

Even beyond this final showdown, there's evidently something going on with the Snarl that not even the gods are aware of.
Well... Thor said that mortals are probably more "solid" to the Snarl than gods.
But empiric experience between mortals and the Snarl put "weaving it" as an epic task.

[Crimsonmantle]

Where do you think O-Chul got his beekkeeppiinngg experience from?From the hobbos in "got his scar" presumably? :p
Keeping a stew-eating bee company and teaching it go doesn't constitute beekeeping.

[Fyraltari]

Where do you think O-Chul got his beekkeeppiinngg experience from?

Kkkaaassshhhyyykkk?

[Peelee]

Kkkaaassshhhyyykkk?

That's one of the moons.

[bunsen_h]

I now want the Order to do a D&D campaign with themselves as PCs, since they have their own character sheets. Let's go meta, folks.

But they'll trade around randomly, drawing names out of a hat or something like that. Nobody gets to play themselves. Their ability to do this successfully will show how they've grown as people and as a team.

One catch is that if they do this after the Xykon adventure is over, Belkar will (as best we know) no longer be available to play. Some player will have to double up, or the DM will run the extra as an NPC.

[Metastachydium]

But they'll trade around randomly, drawing names out of a hat or something like that. Nobody gets to play themselves. Their ability to do this successfully will show how they've grown as people and as a team.

One catch is that if they do this after the Xykon adventure is over, Belkar will (as best we know) no longer be available to play. Some player will have to double up, or the DM will run the extra as an NPC.

Wait. Elan is not present for this "chargen" session. Does that mean that he is to be the DM? I mean, crafting narratives is a tailor-made job for him, but otherwise… Poor innocent [I'm looking at you, Belkar] everyone else!

[bunsen_h]

I bet anything Belkar knows how to make soup out of fat because he used that skill to help depose of bodies.


That's usually done with the Speak With Dead (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) spell, which doesn't have a material component.

Thinking about this further... Speak With Dead does require a divine focus. And if the cleric has misplaced that... well, cleanliness is next to godliness, so a bar of soap might do in a pinch.

[KorvinStarmast]

Also, I graduated high school at some point between 1990 and 2010.:smalltongue: OK, at this point I have to say something about my lawn. :smallyuk: :smallbiggrin:

[Peelee]

OK, at this point I have to say something about my lawn. :smallyuk: :smallbiggrin:

If you live anywhere close to Arlen, I would imagine you'd have quite a bit to say about your lawn. :smalltongue:

[Kantaki]

But they'll trade around randomly, drawing names out of a hat or something like that. Nobody gets to play themselves. Their ability to do this successfully will show how they've grown as people and as a team.

Belkar draws one of the paladins.
To everyone's surprise* he actually does pretty well in the role.:smallbiggrin:

*including his own.:smallamused:

[Laurentio III]

Belkar draws one of the paladins.
To everyone's surprise* he actually does pretty well in the role.:smallbiggrin:

*including his own.:smallamused:
"I would kill him and rob his corpse so... I will defend him? I guess?"

[Thermophille]

I don't even know what movie is being referenced, but yes, my impression on hearing it was "that doesn't mean the bee can't fly, that means the laws of aerodynamics are wrong". And that was not now how the valedictorian presented it. Hence my rage.


Sometimes things like this remind me how distant some people's thought processes are from the scientific method. Interpreting "X seems impossible but definitely happens" as "anything is possible" rather than "Our understanding is flawed" seems insane to me. Didn't even occur to me that that interpretation was possible until you said this.

[Grey Watcher]

...

What I like best about the strip is how it reminded me of old school tabletop game night, except for that absence of Cheetos bags and Mountain Dew bottles. And dicebags.

I like the implication that Cheetos and Mountain Dew are more critical to tabletop gaming than dice.

[Blue Dragon]

Ok, people! Time to annoy the author asking for the character sheets of all of them and start 117 different threads speculating about which skill will save the day and how it will be! GO, GO, GO!!

[JonahFalcon]

But they'll trade around randomly, drawing names out of a hat or something like that. Nobody gets to play themselves. Their ability to do this successfully will show how they've grown as people and as a team.

One catch is that if they do this after the Xykon adventure is over, Belkar will (as best we know) no longer be available to play. Some player will have to double up, or the DM will run the extra as an NPC.

Belkar draws Durkon.
Elan draws Belkar.
Roy draws Roy.
Haley draws Elan.
Durkon draws Haley.

Poor Roy.

[mjasghar]

Tbh that sounds like the way the characters acted in the first book