D&D 5e/Next New D&D 5e Base Class Contest: Discussion Thread [Archive]

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animorte

2022-09-20, 01:53 AM

Welcome to the discussion thread for the D&D 5e Base Class Contests!

If you wish to say anything about the current competition which is neither a submission nor a vote, then it belongs here. You do not need to be a contestant to post here. You are allowed (and encouraged) to critique a competitor’s work and offer suggestions on how to improve their homebrew through this thread. Remember folks, anyone can make a submission, and anyone can comment regardless of whether they've made a submission. The only registration is posting on the submission thread. We greatly appreciate helping each other out!

Current Submission Thread:

Current Voting Thread:

ContestThemeWinner(s)Entry
1stWho Needs Swords or Sorcery? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556338-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-I-Who-needs-Swords-OR-Sorcerery)WarrentheHerothe Inventor (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23009629&postcount=10)
2ndExpect a low Margin of Terror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?560208-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-II-expect-a-low-Margin-of-Terror)Mournethe Sleepwalker (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23121746&postcount=2)
3rdThe Elements, and not the Periodic Ones (Probably?) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565360-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-III-The-Elements-and-not-the-periodic-ones-(probably-)!)Pygmybatriderthe Shaman (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23356103&postcount=8)
4th (tie)Does Not Meet Expectations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?570496-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-IV-Does-Not-Meet-Expectations)Molemagethe Destined (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23412011&postcount=3)
4th (tie)Does Not Meet Expectations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?570496-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-IV-Does-Not-Meet-Expectations)Pygmybatriderthe Mesmer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23410781&postcount=2)
5thTime to Chill out (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?576131-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-V-Time-to-Chill-Out&p=23567807#post23567807)Molemagethe Wintreborn (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23569639&postcount=2)
6th (tie)The Monster Mash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581138-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-VI-The-Monster-Mash)Molemagethe Golem (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23713665&postcount=2)
6th (tie)The Monster Mash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581138-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-VI-The-Monster-Mash)theVoidWatchesthe Lycanthrope (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23714580&postcount=3)
6th (tie)The Monster Mash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581138-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-VI-The-Monster-Mash)daemonaetaethe Elemental Scion (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23736319&postcount=7)
7thRemix Mastery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?587919-D-amp-D-Base-Class-Contest-VII-Remix-Mastery&p=23906232#post23906232)KOLEthe Ranger Remixed (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23932113&postcount=7)
8thMagic Without Slots (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?594571-D-amp-D-Base-Class-Contest-VIII-Magic-Without-Slots&p=24070927#post24070927)MoleMagethe Cultist (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24079873&postcount=6)
9thIt's Time for Time (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?600537-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-IX-It-s-Time-for-Time&p=24361802#post24361802)MoleMagethe Clockwinder (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24206581&postcount=3)
10thBlast from the Past (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?606841-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-X-Blast-from-the-Past)PairO'DiceLostthe Martial Adept (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24460877&postcount=12)
11thSignature Creation (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?612097-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XI-Signature-Creation&p=24502355#post24502355)MoleMagethe Chef (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24561835&postcount=8)
12thHybrid Vigor (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?616515-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XII-Hybrid-Vigor)MoleMagethe Witch (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24632830&postcount=5)
13thBased in Science (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620836-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XIII-Based-in-Science)Old Harry MTXthe Pilot (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24762910&postcount=2)
14thMonster Mash II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624969-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XIV-Monster-Mash-II&p=24871549#post24871549)BerzerkerUnitthe Beheld (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24871837&postcount=2)
15thPartial Casters (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?628967-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XV-Partial-Casters)Damon_Torthe Spellslinger (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24979554&postcount=2)
16thDivine Judgment (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?633671-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XVI-Divine-Judgment)BerzerkerUnitthe Forsaken (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25111769&postcount=2)
17thWho Needs Swords or Sorcery II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?637228-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XVII-Who-Needs-Swords-or-Sorcery-II)sengmengthe Dungeoncrasher (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25222147&postcount=2)
18thExpect a Low Margin of Terror II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?641461-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XVIII-Expect-a-Low-Margin-of-Terror-II-(Submission-Thread)&p=25334235#post25334235)Brecciathe Dreadsoldier (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25342054&postcount=5)
19thDoesn't Meet Expectations II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?644495-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XIX-Doesn-t-Meet-Expectations-II-(Submission-Thread)&p=25420151&viewfull=1#post25420151)Damon_Torthe Band (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25421887&postcount=4)
20thI'm Not Supposed to Be Here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?647052-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XX-I-m-Not-Supposed-to-Be-Here-(Submissio)BerzerkerUnitthe Add-a-Kid (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25499985&postcount=3)
21stHeroes, Myths, and Legends (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?649863-(closed)-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XXI-(21)-Heroes-Myths-and-Legends-Submission-Thread)Just to BrowseThe Scion (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25597591&postcount=6)
22ndDeath Itself (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?651624-5e-Base-Class-Contest-22-Death-Itself-(submission-thread)&p=25638132#post25638132)Gnomes2169 Legionnaire (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25667967&postcount=1)
23rd Time to Chill Out (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?653609-(closed)-Time-to-Chill-Out-(submission-thread)-5e-base-class-contest-23)
sengmeng Minnesotan (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25702128&postcount=3)

The class you homebrew should fit the theme. You can interpret the theme as broadly as you like without risk of disqualification, but doing so may reduce your chances of earning votes during the voting period.
You may only create one base class. If you create more than one class then you must choose which one to enter and remove all the others from this thread and the contest (making them invalid) . If you do not specify which one you favor by the time voting begins, all of your content is invalid.
When you submit your class you must create a post on this thread which either has the content or holds a link to it. You may also optionally create one other individual thread for your class on the homebrew design sub-forum. If it is found that you have revealed your class on another site or on another thread than one on the homebrew design sub-forum, your entry will be considered invalid. If you do make a specific thread for your class, please mention its involvement to the competition in that thread. If you use external formatting resources such as Homebrewery, or GMBinder it is recommended that you also create a PDF of the content and share it here.
You may use other homebrew content (such as feats, spells, magical items and monsters) or even features to supplement your class, provided you have permission from the original creator and provide links to the source. Failure to receive permission from the original creation will disqualify you from entry in the current contest.
Your class must have fully completed mechanics and descriptions for it to be valid. Entries are due by 11:59 PM Central Time on the deadline. Any submissions after this point are invalid. No changes can be made to your class while voting is taking place. Failure to comply with the previous rule will result in disqualification.
Any content which has been declared invalid by the rules above cannot be voted for, but you may decide to remove it from the contest and create another class instead. If you are disqualified then you are not allowed to enter any more homebrew for this competition, though you may still vote and later enter the next competition.
Please note that misunderstandings occur, if you break a rule which results in disqualification it might be excused if you can convince the group that it was a result of confusion over the rules.

Contests stay up for 6 weeks unless an extension is requested by participants. Voting threads then go up for 2 weeks before the next contest begins.

Other Media (Games, books, comics, movies, music, theater, even other TTRPGS).
Breakfast Cereal Mascots (Current or historical.)
Be Your Own Class (Turn an existing subclass into a feature-complete base class of its own.)
Not in Kansas Anymore (You can't use the same core damage or spell progression as any of the core classes.)
Truth and Lies (Focused on deception or honesty, fact-finding or fact-obscuring. Really anything about truth, or about lies.)
Sound of Silence (Based around sound or the absence thereof.)
I'm not Gestalt, But... (Simultaneously allow a character to fill the shoes of two other classes. We're looking for overpowered, unlike Hybrid Vigor.)
Death Itself (Morbid things filled with despair. Something that works with, runs from, or seeks the cause of death.)
Number 14: The D&D 5e Player's Handbook comes with 13 classes, which cover some fairly broad fantasies (fighter, wizard, rogue) and some more narrow ones (ranger, barbarian, monk). Write a 14th base class to fit alongside these.
Props!: Write a class that uses components that you wouldn't normally need for D&D. Maybe a deck of playing cards, or a bag of scrabble pieces, or maybe just weird dice.
Overdone Tropes: Write a class inspired by one (or more) of the world's most overdone nerd tropes, like Cowboy, Samurai, Viking, Robot, Knight, Ninja, Pirate, Zombie. I'm sure I'm forgetting a ton.
It's What's Inside That Counts, Literally: Bodies are full of all sorts of interesting bits. You can have bones, muscles, a bunch of cool organs, firebreathing gullets, brain-extractors, or eternal souls trapped inside metal cages... create a class that focuses on what is inside of you.
Wallbreakers: We all know that D&D is a game, but (in most campaigns) our character's don't. Flip the script by writing a class that explicitly breaks the 4th wall. Do you track who brought snacks? Do you beat a monster into submission using its own stat block? Do you flip to a random page of a book and deal damage using the words there? Go wild!
RPG Mixup: Write a class inspired by another RPG.
Teamwork Makes the Dream Work: Write a class with an intense focus on co-operation.

Also note that themes that have not been used in at least six contests (listed in former competitions) are also eligible for being chosen.

I have taken over the contest from our veteran and well-established MoleMage. I appreciate everything he's done and I'm open to any suggestions as I attempt to maintain the standard set before me. I intend to do my best. Thank you!

As a brewer, you may include non-homebrew content alongside your submission, like design rationales or the math you used to determine certain features. However, please keep this extraneous content separate from the main content, such as in a spoiler or a separate post. Reviewers aren't obligated to read these notes before voting.

animorte

2022-09-20, 01:57 AM

Holding this for further information, if needed.

Old Harry MTX

2022-09-20, 07:35 AM

Thankyou animorte!

As I said, I'm afraid I ran out of ideas on the subject in one of the last contests, but I don't rule out having the enlightenment for something new ^^

animorte

2022-09-20, 09:03 AM

Thankyou animorte!

As I said, I'm afraid I ran out of ideas on the subject in one of the last contests, but I don't rule out having the enlightenment for something new ^^

If you and any others would like, I can roll up a new list and hold a poll for the next base class theme. I will just modify the name of the submission thread afterwards. No problem. Let me know!

Old Harry MTX

2022-09-20, 10:21 AM

If you and any others would like, I can roll up a new list and hold a poll for the next base class theme. I will just modify the name of the submission thread afterwards. No problem. Let me know!

Absolutely no, this theme was voted, so it's the right one! ;D

BerzerkerUnit

2022-09-28, 11:02 PM

sengmeng

2022-09-29, 09:13 AM

Damon_Tor

2022-09-29, 02:48 PM

Ninja (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25592571&postcount=4) is ready for an initial readthrough. Pls god someone give me any kind of feedback. I feel like I've been writing it in a fugue state, it has completely eaten all my creative capital the past few days and I need to prep for a one shot I'm running this weekend.

Any insight is appreciated.

Nitpicks here and there. One broad issue I see is that the ninja's special resource has the same name as the monk's special resource, but are gained at very different rates. If they're the same resource and can be spent interchangeably then this creates some odd issues when multiclassing. If they aren't the same resource then they should have a different name.

Also, the d10 hit dice isn't to my taste on this class, but I'll acknowledge that there's not enough consistency in which classes get d10s and which get d8s, so I won't belabor the point.

BerzerkerUnit

2022-09-29, 07:28 PM

Nitpicks here and there. One broad issue I see is that the ninja's special resource has the same name as the monk's special resource, but are gained at very different rates. If they're the same resource and can be spent interchangeably then this creates some odd issues when multiclassing. If they aren't the same resource then they should have a different name.

Also, the d10 hit dice isn't to my taste on this class, but I'll acknowledge that there's not enough consistency in which classes get d10s and which get d8s, so I won't belabor the point.

Thank you so much for your feedback!

I intended the Ninja, like the monk, get 1 point per level, however, I've given it additional points equal to intelligence modifier because, respectfully, I think the monk is a punk from level 1-5 because they have too few (this is a common houserule in my games and I've seen it bandied about elsewhere). As the Ninja will likely be Int Tertiary, this will probably be an extra 2 Ki for most of their career.

Maybe the wording makes it sound like they get Level x modifier or 1+mod per level. I'll revisit it for clarity.

Just to Browse

2022-10-03, 02:11 PM

I need to compulsively write down my design thoughts about the Scion, but I don't want to leave them in the submission thread so I'm dumping them here.

Obviously the niche here is pretty narrow. Not only is this a class for "children of gods", but it's also clearly angled towards the Herakles / Bhima sort of demigod, humanoid heroes defined by their strength and fighting prowess. That still leaves a surprisingly wide pool of heroes to draw inspiration from, but it means you can't use this class to play a tricksy thief demigod or a sage-like demigod... though you probably could play Sleipnir if someone eventually creates up a playable race & subclass for the niche of "demigod horse"... anyways, it's either Muscle Melee Man or bust with this class.

Divine Favor
The thing I wanted most was the divine favor die, and I've tried to weave that in to the class's power budget & stat bindings. The divine favor die is meant to be an in-universe justification for the epics where fights go back & forth but the hero doesn't get the upper hand until the end. You should watch your die and only be audacious when you roll well. This also (hopefully) encourages slightly more diverse target selection, because there will be turns where you do not have THP to spare (a previous round's THP fades at the start of each turn) so you'll want to focus on a less-threatening enemy for a turn or 2.

Stat Binding
The most appropriate theme for the heroes I looked at was Str + Cha. While Strength was an obvious inclusion, Charisma seemed relevant to a lot of the stories of demigods. The Pandavas were great leaders, Cú Chulainn was beloved by the populace. And while I know Charisma is not meant to proxy for "attractiveness", it still feels like it should... and most demigods were considered extremely beautiful.

Binding a melee character to Str + Cha meant creating a creature of MADness, as it skips on all 3 of the strongest stats; Dexterity in particular is a frustrating issue, because it's easy for characters to go for Dex + Cha and use a rapier or bow to maintain competitive damage while reaping greater rewards (init, better saves, comparable AC). To avoid this, I wanted to be aggressive about my stat bindings, which is why Mighty Aptitude comes in at level 1 and has such an outsized effect. The class has the lowest possible hit die (just a d6), but both Con *and* Str contribute to your hit points, while both Str and Cha contribute to your AC. This is meant to make Strength your focal point for tankiness.

An important note: Both of the effects from Mighty Aptitude have pretty high top-ends. You can theoretically get 20 AC and 15 HP per level if you get a 20 in Str, Con, and Cha. But even this is a fairly MAD spread. Even if you can get all 3 of these stats to 20, you're likely sacrificing initiative and 2 good saves to do so. I'm confident that the AC effect in particular is a trap and should be something more like 12 + Str + Cha based on my experience with the Barbarian & Monk, but there's a lot of other stuff going on in this class and I don't want to overdo things.

Combat Prowess
Level 2 introduces an ability inspired by Cunning Action. I wanted to call it "Heroic Action" or "Scion Action", but nothing felt particularly catchy (and scions shouldn't always be heroic, like Karna). The class is intended for intermediate & experienced players, but I don't want it to be an optimization playground, so the bonus action with a defined list felt like a very clean solution. Consuming a bonus action every turn for some decent combat effect sets a high optimization floor and a low optimization ceiling. You can play this class with PaM if you want to focus-fire your attacks, but you're getting a smaller benefit for PaMing compared to, say, a fighter.

Subclasses
The subclasses are intended to be:

Gift of the Olympian: Herakles
Gift of the Danaan: Cú Chulainn
Gift of the Vayu: Bhima

Herakles did a decent amount of wrestling during his labours, which felt like it made for a very cool subclass. Cú Chulainn is famous for his rage, so that was a quick inclusion. And Bhima did a lot of general strongman / fighting stuff like using trees as weapons, chucking boulders, throwing little army dudes left and right, and killing big demons, so I gave him some superstrength effects to make him feel unstoppable. I think Bhima's abilities could use some effect for picking people up so you can get the aesthetic of his fight with the nagas or him chucking Kichaka, but everything I wrote skewed very close to the the Herakles subclass and Bhima's subclass already had the most single-target power of any subclass (Erupt works on your primary target, unlike Pivot). I decided to prioritize making the subclasses feel distinct. No chucking people, sorry Bhima.

I think there's a decent bit of additional space here. Bellerophon seems like a shoe-in for some kind of mounted warrior, and Yudhishthira could be cool with fire powers, though that seems a little strange because most of Yudhishthira's characterization involves him not using those powers. Some characters like Arjuna aren't going to fit so well because they're archers. Then there are other demigods that I'd need to read more about: Achilles, Diarmuid, Gilgamesh, Māui, Nakula, Sahadeva, Theseus. You could also add fictional demigods like Wonder Woman or Percy Jackson...

... and I just can't stop thinking about Sleipnir. What if your subclass was "I am a Horse"? That just sounds so hilarious. Maybe I'll request it for the next contest.

Tier 2
Tier power levels were interesting to work on. The class needs reduced damage output at T2 compared to the fighter, because it has more flexible combat options, which meant Extra Attack was out. My goal was to increase action-only DPR by around 50% in Tier 2 (as opposed to Extra Attack's 100% DPR increase).

I estimated that Divine Favor's d6 -> d8 upgrade at level 5 contributed around ~25% by reducing the chance of disadvantage and increasing the chance of advantage. Guided Hand's re-roll on your turn is meant to add ~22% to that, assuming you hit 2/3 of your attacks. Realistically, the numbers on a scion will be higher than those of a fighter because every scion will be taking GWM (see below), which benefits a lot more from adv & re-rolls than the usual attack strategy, so I left the improvement at that.

Tier 3
Subclasses are supposed to shape your tier 3 strategies, which is why their level 11 abilities are standouts compared to the lv6 and lv14 ones. That said, they aren't meant to increase damage, at least not significantly. Divine Favor scaling, Arms of the Heritor, and the new Godswill & Improved Godswill should get somewhere in the range of 50% DPR based on my back-of-the-envelope math.

As a result, every level 11 ability is supposed to let you shape fights in a big way. Herakles gets a powerful tanking effect, Cú Chulainn gets a dragon's Frightful Presence, and Bhima gets a part-cleanup, part-single-target effect.

Tier 4
The final result of the favor die does a lot of work here to increase average DPR (though it is very swingy). Paired with Arms of the Heritor (2d6) adding a bit of consistency, I wanted to avoid adding any more damage here. Instead, I scaled up Combat Prowess to match the scale of higher-level threats (there are more forced saves, bigger environments, more minions).

Capstone
This ended up being similar to Paladin capstones. These are all demigods after all, and a capstone seems like an appropriate way to make them more godlike.

I hate GWM so much:
One big problem I had while designing this was that it pretty much mandates the use of Great Weapon Master, because ready access to +hit chance effects makes the -5/+10 tradeoff even more valuable than it usually is. That's suuuuuuuuper annoying, but I couldn't find a non-kludgey way to discourage it, so I've built the class under the assumption that the average scion will pick up GWM at level 8 or earlier. If this dumb feat didn't exist, I would have started Arms of the Heritor around level 5-7. grrrrr stupid feat I hope they get rid of you in D&D One :smallmad: :smallmad: :smallmad:

Damon_Tor

2022-10-03, 02:25 PM

On the Sleipnir issue, you could just add a sidebar explicitly allowing the class to be used as a sidekick progression. So you can take a warhorse statblock and then start adding Scion levels to it. Sleipnir's half-brother Fenrir would work as a direwolf demigod as well.

Good looking class so far. It's definitely a niche that doesn't neatly fit into another class (which is always a challenge in these contests)

BerzerkerUnit

2022-10-03, 10:23 PM

Old Harry MTX

2022-10-04, 12:48 AM

MutantDragon

2022-10-04, 12:47 PM

Mmm, after having a look at the Scion and the Paragon of Strength I am very sorry to have already posted the Demigod in one of the previous editions, it would have been a nice Contest of Champions! XD

Heh, that would've been something. Still, I'm not complaining about having less competition. ;)

Damon_Tor

2022-10-04, 12:53 PM

Old Harry MTX

2022-10-04, 02:06 PM

My brute would have felt right at home too, lol

Damn right!

Damon_Tor

2022-10-09, 07:13 PM

I'm putting the Leader (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25587962&postcount=2) into "alpha". It's got two complete subclasses in the Noble Authority and the Popular Authority, with the Mighty Authority and Ordained Authority to come.

Damon_Tor

2022-10-12, 10:14 AM

And the ordained authority and mighty authority are complete as well. The leader is feature complete.

I've used a variant of the United attack rules at my tables for a while now, and they work great for managing necromancers and summoner druids and such. I have lingering questions about the power level of a growing horde of underlings, so I'll be doing some simulations.

animorte

2022-10-24, 09:04 PM

Hello folks! We've got one week left until the deadline. It's looking great so far. :smallbiggrin:

Everyone will need to have all entries completed by 11:59pm on November 1st.

I'll try to get some reviews in very soon for any potential last minute edits.

animorte

2022-10-31, 06:28 PM

My apologies, folks. I’m bad at getting these in at a decent time, but here goes! :smalltongue:

Before anybody gets started reading, these are all just so wonderful. Most of what I have to say below is pretty nit-picky, honestly.

As always, nothing but brilliance from you…

Anyway, I don’t have much to say on this. Popular Authority’s Mob Mentality seems to have an extremely low DC to escape the grapple. Correct me if I’m wrong:

The DC to escape this grapple is equal to the number of creatures in your entourage within 5 feet of the grappled creature.

I get that they can share a space with each other and all that’s fine, but at this point you can only have a maximum of 10 at one time, yes? Provided all of them are dogpiling the bad guy, a DC 10 just seems incredibly easy. Maybe 10 + number of creatures in your entourage adjacent?

A really neat combination of Monk and Rogue without needing a multi-class. Makes perfect sense.

I would clear up some language in Iron Body to understand if actions are needed and set the duration of Resist Poison.

In Guise of One, maybe add on the end, “specific creature you are familiar with.” Or one you have met or know, something of that nature.

For Madogu Sage, I would remove the DC requirement and probably limit it to once per short rest instead.

By the way, I love the subclasses.

Spellsplitter needs a limit. Basically a free at-will counterspell is terrifying. I would probably limit this to proficiency bonus, regain after long rest.

Combat Momentum as is looks like it could be abused to take 2 full turns in one initiative rotation. I would clarify so that isn’t possible.

Very cool thematics all around, I like it.

Divine Favor is very nicely done throughout all levels and subclasses. Kind of like Bardic Inspiration except, like, so much cooler.

A strong concern: It seems like a very in-your-face class, but only has a d6 HD.

It would be nice if Godswill allows you to move one point either up or down. It’s a different take on “roll twice, choose one.” I like it.

Divine Athlete and Wrestler Potentate, while each having different additional effects, both say that your grappled targets have disadvantage on targets they attack other than you.

For A Monstrous Thing, I would standardize the DC to match as 8 + PB + Cha.

This reminds of the 3.5e Unstoppable class I made years ago, except this is done much better.

The Strength is incorporated pretty well in different ways, but I would have liked to see something other than just extra damage in your Unarmed, Improvised, and Impeccable subclass capstones.

Overall, it’s strong (see what I did there?) and could use more flavor text, but mechanically is nicely done.

I always appreciate the official template, never tried it myself.

First note: Name listed in the contest is Psychopomp. Within the template in various areas are listed Carpenter, Planeswalker, Fool, Priest… I’m not really sure what to, umm, address. Looks like it just needs a lot of cleaning up, honestly.

A lot of things don’t really match up, just looks incomplete. An extension can be requested in the discussion thread if needed, requires 3 votes. Feel free PM me if you have questions.

There’s some really good competition in here, love to see it! :smallbiggrin:

Just a reminder, unless otherwise noted, any modifications can be made through the end of tomorrow! I will then close submissions and open a voting thread.

BerzerkerUnit

2022-11-01, 10:00 AM

A really neat combination of Monk and Rogue without needing a multi-class. Makes perfect sense.

I would clear up some language in Iron Body to understand if actions are needed and set the duration of Resist Poison.

In Guise of One, maybe add on the end, “specific creature you are familiar with.” Or one you have met or know, something of that nature.

For Madogu Sage, I would remove the DC requirement and probably limit it to once per short rest instead.

By the way, I love the subclasses.

Thanks so much for your feedback! Looks like I need to eliminate the spoiler block. The Final Ninja is in the linked PDF.

Madogu Sage is no longer the 14th level feature. Instead it’s called Tsukumogami and upgrades the level 10 Shikigami feature by granting proficiency bonus Ki to your animated Madogu allowing them to use their features more or step of the wind, fading strike, or use aura suppression. Really it makes a few amazing Ki Weapons even more so.

MutantDragon

2022-11-01, 03:03 PM

This reminds of the 3.5e Unstoppable class I made years ago, except this is done much better.

The Strength is incorporated pretty well in different ways, but I would have liked to see something other than just extra damage in your Unarmed, Improvised, and Impeccable subclass capstones.

Overall, it’s strong (see what I did there?) and could use more flavor text, but mechanically is nicely done.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad the mechanics are as sound as I thought, as this was my first (second?) base class I've ever designed. For the flavor text, yes, I desperately need some. I've just been kicking it down the street for awhile now, so I need to buckle down and get it done today.

animorte

2022-11-02, 11:03 PM

The 5e base class contest (21) has been closed and we now have a Voting Thread! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?651124-Heroes-Myths-and-Legends-Voting-Thread-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XXI-(21)&p=25625615#post25625615)

Good luck, everyone!

animorte

2022-11-15, 01:54 PM

Everybody get your votes in on the base classes while we have time left!

animorte

2022-11-18, 04:49 AM

Congratulations to the winner of Heroes, Myths and Legends: The Scion by Just to Browse!!!

The next base class contest submission thread for the new voted theme, Death Itself, (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?651624-5e-Base-Class-Contest-22-Death-Itself-(submission-thread)&p=25638132#post25638132) is ready!

animorte

2022-11-18, 07:27 PM

Also of interest: you'll be selecting two distinct subclasses, one which functions in your sated spellcaster form, one that functions in your melee ravenous form.
Love where this is going already. I might also be interested in what the ever-popular concept of a subclass for the vegetarian might look like in your image.

Just to Browse

2022-11-19, 05:06 PM

BerzerkerUnit

2022-12-04, 06:51 PM

Alright, my Harbinger (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VcoEzcPaSQnkjGNj3Z4YB7rHncKJbef-/view?usp=share_link) is probably ready to rock and roll.

Here's some rationale for design choices.

at high level, Impending Disaster creates the potential to "cast" an uncounterable Meteor Swarm 6 times per short rest. Yes-ish. 1st it's only 1 meteor so much smaller area. It also might do exactly nothing until your allies are clustered around the target (though by that level you can use Dread Warning to get them out of the way). The power drop off is steep. Using the built in effort to try and force it costs a bonus action and immediately downshifts it to a 6th level effect, then a 3rd level effect, then a resistable non damaging effect, then a roughly 1st level effect. It is gambling an action, you can win big, and at 18th level you guarantee yourself 1 win a day, but the more powerful the effect, the less likely it is to occur when you'd like it to.

Some of the spells on the list might raise eyebrows.
Animate Dead- to this day I don't know why it isn't on the Warlock list or the Undead Patron list. I guess they're worried about armies of minions but they don't seem to realize the SR requirement after every 2 castings and the 5th level cap is enough of a penalty to cap you at 16 through 10th level which is a fraction of what a Necromancer can run (all of which will hit harder, be more durable, and the Necromancer will still have a bunch of 1st and 2nd level spells to throw...)

Create Magen- this was my solution for an AI apocalypse. I think if you flavor the World Eater as "grey goo" you can make this work.

Find Steed- It's a Paul Revere reference.

Magic Missile- combined with the Doom Curse it's a big 1 shot spell. But let me relate a brief story: I played a 12th level 1 shot and went Nuclear Wizard classic (Hexblade 1/Evoker 11). We got to the big Green Dragon boss and I spent I think 6 of 7 rounds being thwarted by a fog cloud that filled the lair. Because I'd been conservative in the earlier encounters, those battles mostly saw me cast web and then cantrip blast. Yes, after 6 rounds, I did finish the boss with a completely expended Wand of Magic Missile that did 99 damage, but had he the brooch of shielding on, or the shield spell, I would have done exactly nothing before the cloud went back up. This trick is great, when it can work, but there are multiple low tier solutions that delay or thwart it, so I'm not worried about it.

Breccia

2022-12-10, 12:40 AM

I put together the Mortuary (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/5VbLDSZEiDXB). I like the idea of what I came up with, but I just really don't have the time to flesh it out. So it's a mildly reskinned Cleric with a bunch of undead-seeking attacks and some healing spells.

animorte

2022-12-24, 12:43 PM

I’m putting forth the motion to extend our submission deadline (to account for real-life busy season).

All in favor?

Just to Browse

2022-12-24, 01:44 PM

As a person frantically trying to finish their submission (it's not my fault (https://i.imgflip.com/75eom9.jpg)), I would much appreciate an extra week.

animorte

2022-12-24, 01:58 PM

As a person frantically trying to finish their submission (it's not my fault (https://i.imgflip.com/75eom9.jpg)), I would much appreciate an extra week.
It’ll be an extra two weeks! :smallbiggrin:

I’m struggling on the finishing touches and I also like having some time to review other’s creations.

Breccia

2022-12-25, 10:39 AM

I mean, it's the holidays, an extension would probably help a lot of people.

animorte

2022-12-25, 10:56 AM

I mean, it's the holidays, an extension would probably help a lot of people.
Aye, that it would.

The submission thread has been updated. New deadline: January 12th

Gnomes2169

2022-12-29, 07:52 AM

... You know, the timing on this is quite fortuitous, as I'm just starting to redo/ modify my 5e base classes. And since I was going for a theme of Blood (the Bloodsworn (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?459748-The-Bloodsworn-(Base-class))), Bone (the Legionnaire (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?526856-Homebrew-Redux-The-Legionnaire-try-2-class-boogaloo)) and Spirit (the Wandering Spirit (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?417115-A-lost-soul-(Class-PEACH))), this fits the theme perfectly, methinks. :smalltongue:

So, uh, I give myself permission to use the Legionnaire as inspiration ( :smalltongue: ), specifically because I'm going to remake that one from the ground up and I have ideas for how to do so. The Bloodsworn just needed some tweaks/ rebalancing, which I already got done, and the Wandering Spirit is going to take some work and I don't know where to start on it just now.

So yeah, should see a new thread for the Legionnaire popping up for this competition soon.

animorte

2023-01-08, 03:17 PM

Finish up your base class entries, only a few days left! I will close the submission thread at the end of the 12th.

sengmeng

2023-01-09, 06:54 AM

Finally typed up the Redshirt. PEACHes welcome but not expected this late in the game haha.

Just to Browse

2023-01-09, 11:40 AM

I literally have to write 1 more subclass and then I'm ready to submit it all aaaaaAAAAAAAAAA

animorte

2023-01-09, 05:00 PM

See, I'll have some ideas together, but I like to start mine on the last day. Apparently I function best under pressure (thanks Queen/David Bowie). :smalltongue:

Just to Browse

2023-01-11, 12:17 PM

Class is done and posts have breadcrumb'd for navigation!

Re: Gnomes post in the submission thread: Replying here because that thread should be used for submission content. I'd prefer to avoid forcing users to visit a totally separate forum thread to view the submissions, when they could just scroll down to find my username/pic. I did just add some internal links at the start of each post; hopefully those help solve the navigational issue.

okay, time to start reading classes...

animorte

2023-01-11, 12:48 PM

Class is done and posts have breadcrumb'd for navigation!
I was just about to request that you consolidate, but you adding the links in right at the beginning solves the problem I was expecting to see, as you know i intend only to provide one link. Looks good.

In short, thanks! :smallsmile:

Just to Browse

2023-01-11, 02:03 PM

Awesome, glad it works for you.

At some point I noticed that the class + subclass + monsters was over the 50k limit. I ended up doing a bit of trimming after that, but figured I was still close enough to the line that I should just split the content up and avoid possibly having 1 statblock in its own comment.

animorte

2023-01-13, 03:47 AM

(A few didn't quite get a completed project, but here we go. Sorry about that.)

Death Itself - Voting Thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?653046-Death-Itself-Voting-Thread-(5e-base-class-contest-22)&p=25679772#post25679772)

Good luck everyone!

Just to Browse

2023-01-15, 10:04 AM

I was late on this because I was struggling to finish up the thanator, but I wanted to add some new themes to the mix. Some ideas:
Number 14: The D&D 5e Player's Handbook comes with 13 classes, which cover some fairly broad fantasies (fighter, wizard, rogue) and some more narrow ones (ranger, barbarian, monk). Write a 14th base class to fit alongside these.
Props!: Write a class that uses components that you wouldn't normally need for D&D. Maybe a deck of playing cards, or a bag of scrabble pieces, or maybe just weird dice.
Overdone Tropes: Write a class inspired by one (or more) of the world's most overdone nerd tropes, like Cowboy, Samurai, Viking, Robot, Knight, Ninja, Pirate, Zombie. I'm sure I'm forgetting a ton.
It's What's Inside That Counts, Literally: Bodies are full of all sorts of interesting bits. You can have bones, muscles, a bunch of cool organs, firebreathing gullets, brain-extractors, or eternal souls trapped inside metal cages... create a class that focuses on what is inside of you.
Wallbreakers: We all know that D&D is a game, but (in most campaigns) our character's don't. Flip the script by writing a class that explicitly breaks the 4th wall. Do you track who brought snacks? Do you beat a monster into submission using its own stat block? Do you flip to a random page of a book and deal damage using the words there? Go wild!
RPG Mixup: Write a class inspired by another RPG.
Teamwork Makes the Dream Work: Write a class with an intense focus on co-operation.

Old Harry MTX

2023-01-15, 11:37 AM

Can I suggest to also merge all the themes from the base class and the subclass contests?

sengmeng

2023-01-15, 11:42 AM

Can I suggest to also merge all the themes from the base class and the subclass contests?

Seconded, but make sure they aren't doing the same one at the same time.

animorte

2023-01-15, 01:34 PM

I was late on this because I was struggling to finish up the thanator, but I wanted to add some new themes to the mix. Some ideas:
Brilliant. I love opening up new themes.

Can I suggest to also merge all the themes from the base class and the subclass contests?
This is exactly a thought that I had. For example there is already Something Borrowed (subclass) and Hybrid Vigor (base) that are extremely similar.

Seconded, but make sure they aren't doing the same one at the same time.
Agreed. Else we use up all our ideas! I end up doing that sometimes anyway. :smalltongue:

Also, how would you feel about the way themes are presented? I've maintained 5 options each time, and I remove any themes done recently, then roll randomly across the entire list. Sometimes we end up with a few of the same options. I could (perhaps should) remove all the options from the latest vote, except maybe the runner-up to make sure 4 are different. In addition, I could roll more options (8-10?) and allow for the same #1, 2, and 3 choices.

What do you think?

animorte

2023-01-15, 03:32 PM

Much appreciated to kind words within! I will quote these things in the future as I intend to polish the class up later.

3rd, the Gatekeeper: While it could use a little bit of formatting, adding the size of the Soul Touch as a sidebar to the class table to make its scaling a little clearer and easier to reference would be welcome, the mechanics for this one seem to be rather intuitive. A full build would take some planning to ensure you know what you're able to do, but the abilities all feel like they should work together and will be functional. I feel like a few of the class's abilities should cost more than 1 soul essence (the reviving one in particular), but that pool is limited enough that I can understand why a universal cost of 1 essence was implemented. Fluff wise, being the gates of death themselves was a unique choice for sure, though I'm not sure it was used to its fullest (specifically, I think it would have been neat if the subclasses were also somewhat associated with one of the afterlives, but that's just me). The descriptions and the poems are -*Checks his own class*- always going to get extra points from me.
Ah, so I was looking over the table several times knowing that I wanted to add something different. I couldn't for the life of me recall what it was, but you nailed it. Thanks for reminding me! :smalltongue:

As far as the full build, you're absolutely right on kind of planning it out. However I was hoping that the concept of withholding a soul's effects it had on you would allow for adjustment if you chose to release the soul with the ability to swap out augments upon leveling.

I love the flavor. Sometimes I need to write out the flavor for what I'm trying to accomplish before I can actually focus on the abilities. I'll keep all of this in mind, especially the note of your be-the-gate statement as I debate moving it to its own thread entirely for balance and other adjustments in the future.

1. The Gatekeeper. Looking at that no-save damage on Soul Touch, I was really expecting the damage to be way off. But after a little estimation, it seems to be remarkably consistent after level 5, allowing for competitive damage while still opening up power budget for other stuff like aoe / applying riders / etc:https://i.imgur.com/c7iAw2U.png
There are a couple places that need power level adjustment, like Purgatory's Restrain and Descended's Omen of the Fallen, but they're implemented in a way that I could make substitutions while still letting my players feel cool. One thing I would have loved more of is cool / weird death-themed utility. But still, this class SCREAMS its theme, from the early magic jar effect to straight-up shoving people into the river styx.
I genuinely appreciate you checking out the damage on Soul Touch. I ran some numbers compared to several other sources to determine the balance, taking into account the riders as you mention. I also took note of several other damage spikes (like Empower and Mantle) to discover how that matched against other common class' level appropriate options. If built for it, this can match nearly anything in terms of damage, but it can't crit and it's still limited by classic resource management (especially if you want to account for other valuable class features).

I mentioned above, I will take note of these words as I intend to move this into its own thread in the future for improvement. I'm really glad you noticed and enjoy the themes I attempted to portray! :smallbiggrin:

Just to Browse

2023-01-28, 01:19 PM

Still sad we didn't get to see the ability-switching vampire. Class sounded cool as hell.

Theme for this round looks fun as hell but I've signed up to do some co-DM'ing and I don't know if I can finish something grrr

Gnomes2169

2023-01-29, 09:18 AM

C'mon, JusttoBrowse. Don't worry if business has you feeling a little frozen. You just need to chip away at things, no matter how frosty they get, and I'm sure a cool idea will end up icing this contest cake.

... Hoarfrost.

What do you mean I just committed word crimes? Air strike? My current GPS coordinates? Only way to be sure? Oh my.

Gnomes2169

2023-02-08, 01:07 AM

@Senmeng: As a Minnesotan who just saw your submission, I have to inform you... I wasn't asking to be directly attacked in this way. How dare you? I'll have you know that I was on the cross country and robotics teams when I was in high school. And -35 C is only a little brisk.

sengmeng

2023-02-13, 07:23 AM

sengmeng

2023-02-14, 10:27 PM

The Minnesotan is done. PEACHes begrudgingly accepted
.

Notafish

2023-02-16, 10:26 PM

My "New Orc Ranger" (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25706462&postcount=4) ice hockey-inspired class is not done, but I think I've sketched out enough for feedback on the class and the puns.

I am fully guessing at the damage curve, and whether the class has too many or too few short rest toys, so I'd particularly like feedback on those things.

Notafish

2023-02-16, 10:47 PM

The Minnesotan is done. PEACHes begrudgingly accepted
.

I think it's an interesting martial hybrid - aspects of fighter and barbarian, with rewards for having charisma and a lot of focus on movement. I really like the Ope feature.

I spent some time in Minnesnowta myself, but its been too long for me to recall any good references that you haven't already used.

I like that the subcclasses all have synergy with the norwester attack, but different preferred fighting styles. I'm also happy that there doesn't look like there is too much overlap between my hockey class and your hockey subclass (I might have more overlap with the football player).

Check the wording on Hat Trick and Midwest Cuisine - I think I get what you're going for in both places, but I'm a little confused by the wording on both features.

Gnomes2169

2023-02-19, 11:32 AM

animorte

2023-02-19, 02:46 PM

Annnnd, there. The fluff for the Frostheart should be done, and the mechanics were given another go-over and balance patch, so hopefully it's ready for proper reviews. :smallsmile:
Your fluff is nearly insurmountable, keep up the good work. I'll work on getting in some reviews in another week (or two).

That aside, I'm working on The Snowman (probably)! Right now I have two subclasses, one is most assuredly Abominable.

animorte

2023-03-08, 04:04 AM

I've read through everything and had an absolute blast! It confirmed that mine still has interesting mechanics not yet touched upon. Speaking of which, you all know how I roll by now and I'm right on schedule to have mine complete on the very last day! :smallcool:

Yet again, your fluffy-flavor knows no bounds. With enough words, you could probably make just about anything fit whatever given theme.

I'll let you guess where you replaced "sworn" with "sword." :smalltongue:

Your manifestation is awesome throughout all levels. Are there rules anywhere included for riding it, limits and such? Frigid Slam, is that supposed to be "Disengage" instead of "Withdraw" action?

Nicely done incorporating various uses for Frost Ward through most of the subclasses.

Frozen Flame
Frostburn 2d12 + Wis damage is probably too much at level 2.

Sharing the eternal tokens for Eternal Shield is just too cool.

Eternal Rebirth is amazing. However, I would add that it requires your reaction to take effect.

Lands
Can't get enough of the poetry.

Glacial Shield, balanced and scales beautifully.

Preserved
I love Wraith Manifestation. It made me think you were going to have a Frost Servant based subclass.

Well done on clarifying Twin Ray can't get abused.

Rejuvenating Demise might need a limit of uses per short/long rest.

Storm
The prose here is the true eye of the storm.

Vortex would probably work any time something passes through it for any reason, not just ending their turn in it.

Thaw
Sacrificial Manifestation is so heart-warming.

Spring's Tranquility seems to have a typo, saying "level 10" instead of "level 1."

I think Shattering Thaw should be a full on self-destruct. You could still use whatever its remaining hit die to determine damage and healing.

Life from Death, does your manifestation even technically have a weapon attack?

Overall, you definitely locked into your concept for this theme, as far as I can tell, not being from Minnesota. It could use a little more flavor to set the scene though.

Under Midwest Cuisine, you have a couple abilities that state, "the ability is lost if you take a short or long rest without using it." I think it would help if they were each reworded that it can be used until you begin a short or long rest. Something of that nature, it's just a bit confusing.

In Nor'Wester, "you gain all benefits associated with being in below freezing temperatures." I see where these benefits are listed under A Bit Chilly, but it's not entirely clear there which benefits are always relevant and which ones are only available below freezing temperatures.

I think Uff Da is the equivalent to "cheers" or "good health" as a celebratory exclamation before taking a drink. (This is based on my Golden Girls knowledge and Rose being from Minnesota, and that's it. :smalltongue:)

Wrestling
Slam and takedown almost seem like they should go together as one effect. Slam as a bonus action for additional damage, leaving them prone, but no longer grappled. Unless of course takedown is supposed to keep you grappled with them?

Hockey
Skate is sweet. How far is the shove on Body Check? I love the name Hat Trick, but does it require that you specifically bring the creatures to zero or you just contributing?

Football
Choosing your position is awesome. Seeing more options could be even nicer. Teamwork is sweet.

You definitely start off with some classy flavor. I like it. I realize this is still basically an outline, but I'll provide some input anyway. Add in the health and it's still pretty much there.

Still working on the skill list, of course. Team Spirit isn't so strong that it would require too hard a limit. PB/SR is fine.

I love the choosing positions concept! Keeper 1/3 caster works great. Would it be known or prepared spells?

Level 6 Enforcer needs duration for marked enemy.

Hawk Key Puck is fantastic!

Power Play would probably work better as others using their reaction to gain bonus or additional attack.

All the Team Spirit subclass bonuses are brilliant.

I would actually have Penalty Box mimic the Forcecage spell instead of Banishment.

Well, just a little bit of polishing up, I really feel like this class is complete. Well done on nailing your theme!

The Sark truly brings to life exactly what resistance to damage actually looks like. Good rules for "keeping the Sark alive" and it reminds me of Pokemon in a small way. When one is low on HP (or just for different effects), you can just swap it to another.

Sark's Protection also provides resistance to force damage? Strong.

Remorhaz
Heated Body starts at 1d4 then scales with d6 instead, intentional?

Sense Prey and Burrower feel so accurate.

Winter Wolf
Solid summoning and improvement, no complaints.

Yeti
Love Chilling Gaze and Tear Asunder is sweet. Eyes of Frost improves the gaze nicely.

However, Freezing Gaze feels underwhelming; it burns through an additional use. If that's the case, maybe something like, "when you roll initiative and have less than two uses of Chilling Gaze left, you start with two instead."

Aspects
Ambush Aura seems situational, but has enough options and makes sense. It's my favorite aspect.

I was going to make a note of the Grand Aspects being perhaps too strong for level 11, but you scaled it up very well by holding the Supremacy off until level 17.

Gnomes2169

2023-03-08, 09:18 AM

I've read through everything and had an absolute blast! It confirmed that mine still has interesting mechanics not yet touched upon. Speaking of which, you all know how I roll by now and I'm right on schedule to have mine complete on the very last day! :smallcool:

Yet again, your fluffy-flavor knows no bounds. With enough words, you could probably make just about anything fit whatever given theme.

I'll let you guess where you replaced "sworn" with "sword." :smalltongue:

Your manifestation is awesome throughout all levels. Are there rules anywhere included for riding it, limits and such? Frigid Slam, is that supposed to be "Disengage" instead of "Withdraw" action?

Nicely done incorporating various uses for Frost Ward through most of the subclasses.

Frozen Flame
Frostburn 2d12 + Wis damage is probably too much at level 2.

Sharing the eternal tokens for Eternal Shield is just too cool.

Eternal Rebirth is amazing. However, I would add that it requires your reaction to take effect.

Lands
Can't get enough of the poetry.

Glacial Shield, balanced and scales beautifully.

Preserved
I love Wraith Manifestation. It made me think you were going to have a Frost Servant based subclass.

Well done on clarifying Twin Ray can't get abused.

Rejuvenating Demise might need a limit of uses per short/long rest.

Storm
The prose here is the true eye of the storm.

Vortex would probably work any time something passes through it for any reason, not just ending their turn in it.

Thaw
Sacrificial Manifestation is so heart-warming.

Spring's Tranquility seems to have a typo, saying "level 10" instead of "level 1."

I think Shattering Thaw should be a full on self-destruct. You could still use whatever its remaining hit die to determine damage and healing.

Life from Death, does your manifestation even technically have a weapon attack?

You've made too many puns. I know you could easily scroll up and expose my hypocrisy, but your word crimes, like mine, are unforgivable. We both shall be damned at the end of this contest. :smalltongue:

ctrl+F is my friend. It allows me to find these objects of my torment. :smalltongue:

I did mean Disengage. As for riding, that's covered by the normal mount rules. If you are 1 size smaller than the creature or smaller, you may ride it. So when you get the ability to make your manifestation Large at level 17, or if you're playing a smol like a gnome or halfling, you get to ride your frosty friend around.

One general change I made that I should point out was that the Resonant Frost damage was changed. Instead of increasing in number of dice like a poor nerd's sneak attack, it increases in size (from 1d6 to 1d12) and may be applied to multiple attacks/ creatures each turn. This was so I could change how some features scaled (like Vortex, which could have potentially hit multiple creatures for 1d8+3d6 cold and 1d8 lightning EVERY TURN at level 10... the reduced scaling makes it easier to help with that) and simplify it a bit. It also means that the Preserved's level 18 had to change, since you can already hit more than one critter with an AoE, so now it's a minion focused feature that gives your bond manifestation advantage on attacks against creatures danger close to you, and lets them add your resonant frost damage on hits against those creatures.

Frozen flame
The Frostburn damage was a bit much, just 1d12 + Wis (+ Resonance potentially) now. This used to be the level 10 Channel Divinity, and I forgot to scale it back when I dropped the level.

The Eternal Rebirth is effectively just a copy-pasta of the Wildfire druid's level 14 ability, though without a range limit, which also doesn't require a reaction. Thus, no reaction for this one.

Preserved
As mentioned above, modified the level 18 ability to be more of a minion buffing, since Resonant Frost changed. Also added a limit of Prof mod/ Long Rest to the Rejuvenating Demise feature.

Storm
Originally, I had Vortex only trigger at the end of the creature's turn to ensure there wouldn't be cheap combos that basically just dealt fireball damage to every creature every turn they started in the vortex, but with the reduction in damage that Resonant Frost now deals, I'm happy to change it to more of a Moonbeam/ all of Fire trigger instead.

Thaw
Spring's tranquility was supposed to be the level 2 channel divinity. I think I just copy-pasta'd a level 10 box down before editing in the effect, and missed the level on there.

Since I changed Rejuvenating Demise, I figure Life from Death should probably change the same way. It's now 2d8 + Wis mod and can be used Prof mod/ long rest.

Shattering Thaw... Hmmm... Bond Manifestation used Self Destruct! It had 18 hit dice unexpended! It expends all of them! It's super effective! Bond Manifestation faints... (It now kills the manifest, but there's no limit on the number of hit dice it can expend).

Thanks for that feedback! :smallbiggrin: Now get to work on finishing yours, so I can critique you. :smallmad:

... Also, Uff Da is weird. It's used for commiseration ("Uff Da, that was a rough patch yah went through there, bud") to low-key complain ("Uff Da, sure is a lot of snow I need ta shovel today") or when something is being annoying ("Uff Da, buddy, yah sure can go on and on about your aunt for a while there, don't 'cha know.") I don't think I've heard it used for celebration or in a positive light, but then, I don't hang around the older generations much outside of work. Minnesotans my age generally use it as a signal for exasperation, basically.

animorte

2023-03-08, 06:08 PM

You've made too many puns. I know you could easily scroll up and expose my hypocrisy, but your word crimes, like mine, are unforgivable. We both shall be damned at the end of this contest. :smalltongue:
I know nothing of which you claim! Ah, we might as well accept full responsibility and take pride in the eye-roll inducing word play. We'll go down together!

ctrl+F is my friend. It allows me to find these objects of my torment. :smalltongue:
Your technological expertise has foiled my plans, yet again! Again?

Thanks for that feedback! :smallbiggrin: Now get to work on finishing yours, so I can critique you. :smallmad:
Glad I could be of help! :smallbiggrin: I look forward to many flaws being highlighted despite my best effort. Bring it on! :smallcool:

... Also, Uff Da is weird.
Thanks for the insight. I will add it to my list of most versatile expletives exclamations.

Notafish

2023-03-09, 06:03 PM

Thanks for the review and suggestions! I'll do my best to get a final draft by the deadline:)

animorte

2023-03-11, 04:29 AM

The Snowman (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25729556&postcount=6) is complete (-ish), featuring Hail and Ice-olation!

I have no doubt that each critique I made on other entries will no doubt have found it's own variation of the same problems throughout mine. :smallwink:

Just to Browse

2023-03-11, 03:09 PM

animorte

2023-03-11, 05:50 PM

Right under the deadline, well done!

I also finally just finished design notes for the jasarker. Very happy that I no longer have to think about hide armor.

I don't have time to give a thorough review of the Snowman until next week, so I've done a quick skim. Hopefully you see this before the deadline 🤞
Ah, yes! Much appreciation indeed. I practically live on here, so I'm always up to date. :smallcool:

Snowball: Really great idea. Your snowball needs to specify its larger range. Ex: spears are have "Thrown (20/60)" because they can be thrown normally within 20 feet or thrown with disadvantage within 60 feet. I think it would be nice if the snowball also had Finesse and could deal damage using Dex, but I haven't taken a deep enough look at the rest of the class to see if that causes problems with subclasses or whatnot.
Fixed. I originally considered making Snowball a cantrip actually. I decided against it so the class could benefit from Strength as a primary stat if it wanted to. I shall indeed fix the range and finesse isn't a bad idea either.

Snowflake: Loving the concept of the marking mechanic, and the damage gives him an interesting combat pattern. I think Restrained is much too strong of a rider, though. I would recommend both spreading the control effect out to later levels and probably also adding a cooldown or rest resource to it.
Fixed. I went with incapacitated at first, but yes the constant rider effect could be nasty considering how consistently the class will be able to hit multiple times a turn at later levels. I'm thinking perhaps that the same creature can't be affected (for a specific period of time) after it fails once?

Personal Flurry: I think at such a high level, you could safely make your friends immune to the snowman's features instead of just giving them advantage, since it's mostly just protecting them against prone and a small bit of damage?
Fixed. I wanted to do a "handing out snow gear to resemble protection," but couldn't decide on how to implement the concept. Yeah, this should be fine considering there are very few threats anyway, melting being the main one.

Notafish

2023-03-11, 10:50 PM

I think this is under the deadline?

It's not pretty, but I took the spoiler tags out: The New Orc Ranger (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25706462&postcount=4)

sengmeng

2023-03-11, 11:01 PM

Also, Uff Da is weird. It's used for commiseration ("Uff Da, that was a rough patch yah went through there, bud") to low-key complain ("Uff Da, sure is a lot of snow I need ta shovel today") or when something is being annoying ("Uff Da, buddy, yah sure can go on and on about your aunt for a while there, don't 'cha know.") I don't think I've heard it used for celebration or in a positive light, but then, I don't hang around the older generations much outside of work. Minnesotans my age generally use it as a signal for exasperation, basically.

Yeah, you hit it on the head. I think animorte was confusing it with "sköl."

animorte

2023-03-11, 11:52 PM

I think this is under the deadline?
Absolutely! :smallsmile:

Yeah, you hit it on the head. I think animorte was confusing it with "sköl."
I'm glad to have learned something new!

animorte

2023-03-17, 05:22 PM

Don't forget to swing by the voting thread! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?654836-Time-to-Chill-Out-(voting-thread)-5e-base-class-contest&p=25735526#post25735526)

Gnomes2169 and Just to Browse consistently make me feel like the two of your are in a league all your own and it's truly inspiring. It provides me with the desire to put even more effort into the improvement of my own creations, provided I have time. (I believe this contest particularly revealed the weakness of my own.)

My wife even agreed, "Yeah, the snowman is not your best work."

animorte

2023-03-28, 02:15 AM

Congratulations on victory for sengmeng with the Minnesotan! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25702128&postcount=3)

Game Night (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?655222-Game-Night-(submission-thread)-5e-base-class-contest-24) submission thread is ready to go!

sengmeng

2023-03-28, 09:17 AM

animorte

2023-05-05, 10:02 PM

Old Harry MTX

2023-05-06, 03:28 AM

We currently have an uncontested entry in the submission thread. If anybody cares to put up a challenge, there's only a few days left!

Otherwise, after that the next theme will be Who Needs Swords or Sorcerery, as it was a tie in the votes and I flipped a coin. :smallsmile:

Sadly, I no longer have the time I once had to devote myself to writing an entire class. At least I find the Cardsharp a very interesting entry!

Just to Browse

2023-05-08, 10:56 AM

Very close to finished on my entry, mostly working on formatting / equipment / skills. I'll put it up for now and try to get it polished before the deadline.

edit: Okee should be done. Squeaked that one riiiight under the deadline.

animorte

2023-05-10, 02:40 AM

Here is the voting thread! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656333-Game-Night-Voting-Thread-(base-class-contest)&p=25776516#post25776516) The process will be a little different this time around. Good luck!

animorte

2023-05-26, 03:39 AM

Congratulations to our winner of Game Night, Just to Browse with Makijenji! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25775028&postcount=3)

The next contest submission thread is ready to go. Who Needs Swords or Sorcery? (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?656697-Who-Needs-Swords-or-Sorcery-(submission-thread)-5e-base-class-contest-25&p=25788190#post25788190)

BerzerkerUnit

2023-06-01, 04:24 PM

My brainstorming spoiler is full of alpha mechanics in roughly level progression. Any feedback on what I have so far is appreciated.

Just to Browse

2023-06-25, 03:29 PM

The Fool (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25808949&postcount=3) is now complete.

My brainstorming spoiler is full of alpha mechanics in roughly level progression. Any feedback on what I have so far is appreciated.

Late on the response here. I like the idea of swapping masks. The most interesting part to me was the 100 faces subclass, and I'd like to see that expanded upon in the main class if possible. The idea that you can swap between a bunch of different forms is really interesting.

BerzerkerUnit

2023-06-25, 06:26 PM

The Fool (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25808949&postcount=3) is now complete.

Late on the response here. I like the idea of swapping masks. The most interesting part to me was the 100 faces subclass, and I'd like to see that expanded upon in the main class if possible. The idea that you can swap between a bunch of different forms is really interesting.

Thank you so much for the feedback!

The Fool does look fun, I have a player I know would love it and will give him a look the next time I start a campaign. That said, some minor edits are probably needed since I think you changed some of the feature names. Like Unwitting Strength seems to reference the L15 Wheel of Fortune ability? I believe it happened somewhere else as well. Still, great work!

Just to Browse

2023-06-25, 10:55 PM

Blegh. At some point I had the bright idea to try and jam the name of every major tarot card in there, which led to me renaming a bunch of stuff, and I think I probably missed a ton. I'll try and go through the writeup line by line soon to get everything consistent. Editing is a massive weakness of mine.

SyntheticHuman

2023-06-27, 12:43 PM

I've started work on the Apothecary, a support class that creates formulas and solutions to aid or sabotage others. So far, I've got a few rather unique mechanics I'm trying my darndest to balance. Once I have something readable, I'll post it for feedback.

Just to Browse

2023-07-06, 10:41 AM

SyntheticHuman

2023-07-07, 12:37 PM

Gave a once-over of the Apothecary. I like the idea of harvesting from creatures a lot. Had a few notes:

The class should probably offer the option for Herbalism Kit proficiency since Alchemical Genius requires it for some features.
Basic Alchemy seems a little weak. Biting Solution looks solid, but Incandescent's damage is very low (and might need more aggressive scaling than the other options, since HP scales so quickly) and Slowing Solution is pretty weak without Double Dose / Misting Formula.
I would prefer to see some more Adv/Disad instead of some of the +/- bonuses so it's not quite so easy to stack buffs & debuffs.

I just buffed the Basic Solutions, thanks for bringing that to my attention.
I had intended to use the tools required for Alchemical Genius to restrict the options for classes, as Physician will be proficient in Herbalism Kit and Poisoner will be proficient in Poisoner's Kit, but I'm now realizing that's kind of a roundabout way of doing that. I'll probably just shift that to subclass restrictions.
As for advantage and disadvantage, I'm still working on getting Formulas down, so I'll keep that in mind going forward. Thanks so much for the feedback!

Update: I also just finished and released the second subclass, Poisoner.

BerzerkerUnit

2023-07-07, 04:45 PM

Changed everything last minute. Monk/Barbarian fusion "the mystic warrior" is in alpha. Hopefully will have something readable up by end of day.

Funkeel

2023-07-07, 08:20 PM

I was going to try and get my entry in by now, but Executive Function is an Epic-Level challenge. Still, I want to say that The Fool is incredible and I might just rip off some of its mechanics whole-cloth since I won't be entering my class in. I hope everyone other than me can get their entry in on time!

BerzerkerUnit

2023-07-08, 12:39 AM

Changed everything last minute. Monk/Barbarian fusion "the mystic warrior" is in alpha. Hopefully will have something readable up by end of day.

erm. m. g. Just under the wire. Thank you all for creating an environment that got the ADHD cranking in the right direction.

Here's the link: Mystic Warrior (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lYj7qb1CVrCvZ6f3QI6kkY2_lNvhiVxt/view?usp=drive_link)

It's the Monk and Barbarian zipped together to create a warrior that fights using an altered mental state that unlocks seemingly supernatural powers. From there you can flavor it to taste getting Persian Immortal, Rifts Juicer, Shaolin Monk, Zulu Warrior, RRR super cop, Punch Out style boxer (although that was kind of full of stereotypes...) etc etc.

They're already trying to break monk away from its classic aesthetic, they should be doing the same with barbarian, so this is a chance to really jump to something multifunction.

Yes, that much competition for bonus actions is deliberate. The Altered State is the best part of rage, but out of combat insisting on maintaining it may not be the best choice.

Forgot to mention Spirit Points come back on a short rest. I'll update the pdf later.

Thanks again all and I would love feedback when possible.

animorte

2023-07-10, 02:13 AM

Sorry for the delay. Voting thread is right this way! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?657777-Who-Needs-Swords-or-Sorcery-(Voting-Thread-5e-base-class-contest)&p=25820534#post25820534)

Just to Browse

2023-07-24, 02:12 PM

Everyone and their dog is gonna write a battlemaster class in the next contest, aren't they?... hmmmmm

animorte

2023-07-24, 04:12 PM

Everyone and their dog is gonna write a battlemaster class in the next contest, aren't they?... hmmmmm
Let's break the mold! (Provided I have time.)

Did you see "I Read This in a Book Once" subclass contest? There were 4 Spider-Man entries.

Snowben Gaming

2023-07-25, 06:27 AM

subscription post

Just to Browse

2023-07-26, 12:10 PM

Let's break the mold! (Provided I have time.)

🫡

Been brainstorming some alternative options:
Basically every artificer subclass
4-elements monk
Most (all?) of the half-caster subclasses as a dedicated gish
Bladesinger
Some of the more option-y Barbarian subclasses could be expanded
Beastmaster ranger where you focus on the animal companion.
I'd also like to give an old class a glow-up. A 4-elements monk that lets you play something out of Avatar would be pretty slick, but I think I'm going to go for the Storm Herald. There's a lot of cool stuff you can do with storm magic, but Storm Heralds (and Barbarians generally) don't feel that exciting. Lots of opportunities to give the class a glow-up.

animorte

2023-07-26, 01:15 PM

A 4-elements monk that lets you play something out of Avatar would be pretty slick
I've worked on something like this, but I've seen it done quite a few times and now I have Avatar Legends anyway so...

My mind first goes to Shadow Sorcerer for this theme.
I second the "any Artificer" statement.
Mercy Monk gives me some ideas.
Eldritch Knight (taking some tips from Hexblade and Paladin) as a gish.
Spirits Bard tickles my fancy daily.
Forge Cleric (inspiration = Ornn from LoL).

Notafish

2023-07-27, 04:40 PM

This one seems like it has a lot of possibilities. I have a long weekend; I might see if I can figure out something interesting to do with one of the wizard schools (necromancy seems like the most obvious candidate).

Amechra

2023-07-27, 11:26 PM

So how close does the new class have to be to the original?

Like, if I made a take on a Bard subclass, does the end result need to be a spellcaster?

animorte

2023-07-28, 12:16 AM

So how close does the new class have to be to the original?

Like, if I made a take on a Bard subclass, does the end result need to be a spellcaster?
I'm gonna say no. As long as your subclass has clear inspiration. I myself am also considering non-spell options for my entry which is inspired by a full-caster.

White Blade

2023-07-28, 09:38 AM

I’m most of the way finished with a Mastermind base class at this point.

In terms of other ideas that are appealing, Divine Soul seems to carry some possibility for a whole class. Eldritch Knight has the heft mechanically but it’s not a broad archetype in fiction. Necromancer definitely strikes me as a good choice.

sengmeng

2023-07-29, 07:13 AM

I've been toying with the idea of trying to fix one the most garbage subclasses, because for most of them, their disappointing nature partly comes from how cool the concept is and how bad the end result was. So berserker, trickery cleric, arcane archer, way of the four elements monk, a toss up of inquisitive or mastermind rogue, and wild magic sorcerer is the list I came up with. Could throw evoker in, but doing any of the wizard schools would be best done by focusing even harder on their chosen school, and the problem with evoker is that it already focuses on the worst school. Any other real stinkers I missed in the supplemental books? I mostly stuck to core, except for rogue.

animorte

2023-07-29, 10:32 AM

Just to Browse

2023-07-29, 10:33 AM

Everything from SCAG probably belongs on that list. I would add the Assassin Rogue and Beastmaster Ranger as well.

Just to Browse

2023-08-02, 12:41 AM

Double posting to say that the storm herald (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?658139-Be-Your-Own-Class-(submission-thread)-5e-base-class-contest&p=25836684&viewfull=1#post25836684) is finished and posted! The heart of it is an upgrade and expansion of the Barbarian Storm Herald, but it's also a love letter to Silva Stormrage's Tempest Warlord (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?236939-Tempest-Warlord-1st-Place-In-the-Base-Class-Challenge-X-PEACH), a super cool class that I fell in love with over a decade ago (oh god I am so old). Silva, if by chance you click into these contest threads even though they're 5e material, I want you to know I still remember the Tempest Warlord and I think it's cool as hell.

Itsfrank

2023-08-03, 08:41 PM

Oh no I forgot to vote on the last thing!

BerzerkerUnit

2023-08-08, 05:17 PM

Here’s the Sojourner (https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Kf_P4rAkUaFhhHslWCuDaxlDLEUzkbl/view?usp=drivesdk), all teleports all the time.

Any feedback is appreciated!

MrStabby

2023-08-12, 12:24 PM

BerzerkerUnit

2023-08-12, 01:01 PM

Hmm. I am going to jump in to this one I think with the Magician, based on the themes of the Illusionist subclass and trying to channel themes of old music-hall acts. A somewhat magical performer blending illusions and swordplay to disable and harm their enemies.

First iteration is looking... complex. It has subcasses of conjurer, clairvoyant and mesmerist.

EDI: Now I need to work out how to add pictures.

I use Dall-E (https://auth0.openai.com/u/login/identifier?state=hKFo2SBXbEdUaGtxbTQ0TGNYblpoTV8yd nZWUnZtWktjQ1RJZKFur3VuaXZlcnNhbC1sb2dpbqN0aWTZIFg tRmxoYXRULXRrTEd2emlYbnBNZEFlYU0wZlJLeWs5o2NpZNkgR E1nOTFmNVBDSFF0Yzd1MDE4V0tpTDB6b3BLZGlIbGU) to quickly generate stuff for fun like this. Some of what I get is great, a lot is trash, but it pops when compared to my sketchbook or nothing.

I also use Homebrewery (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/new) to make the pdfs. Take a look when you can.

MrStabby

2023-08-12, 03:07 PM

I use Dall-E (https://auth0.openai.com/u/login/identifier?state=hKFo2SBXbEdUaGtxbTQ0TGNYblpoTV8yd nZWUnZtWktjQ1RJZKFur3VuaXZlcnNhbC1sb2dpbqN0aWTZIFg tRmxoYXRULXRrTEd2emlYbnBNZEFlYU0wZlJLeWs5o2NpZNkgR E1nOTFmNVBDSFF0Yzd1MDE4V0tpTDB6b3BLZGlIbGU) to quickly generate stuff for fun like this. Some of what I get is great, a lot is trash, but it pops when compared to my sketchbook or nothing.

I also use Homebrewery (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/new) to make the pdfs. Take a look when you can.
I used stable diffusion for the pictures, just need to work out how to add them to posts. Homebrewery is cool also - I hadn't thought of using that to add the pictures.

BerzerkerUnit

2023-08-12, 04:16 PM

I used stable diffusion for the pictures, just need to work out how to add them to posts. Homebrewery is cool also - I hadn't thought of using that to add the pictures.

I save my stuff to deviant art then copy the pic address and use the picture link above the text box Like sohttps://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/deb47061-fdfe-4d4b-8700-4731dbd7d93b/dg53dkd-3c2eb261-3078-4644-bd24-bd963b489a99.png/v1/fill/w_894,h_894,q_70,strp/dalle_2023_08_07_18_09_28___a_cyberpunk_illustra_b y_berzerkerunit_dg53dkd-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9 .eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZ DQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTg yMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7Imhla WdodCI6Ijw9MTAyNCIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2RlYjQ3MDYxLWZ kZmUtNGQ0Yi04NzAwLTQ3MzFkYmQ3ZDkzYlwvZGc1M2RrZC0zY zJlYjI2MS0zMDc4LTQ2NDQtYmQyNC1iZDk2M2I0ODlhOTkucG5 nIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEwMjQifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlc nZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.9W7BEKG_sItAEtCm ICMFLMKC-e7j6nIQRVlBHUFdjYY

MrStabby

2023-08-12, 05:46 PM

https://i.imgur.com/1ot4Pd8.png

https://i.imgur.com/qhNQsNI.png

https://i.imgur.com/aSJNJed.png

And I have some illusionists! I used Imgur instead, but seems to work. Thanks!

Also what's it with AI and hands? I mean I work with AI - I build algorithms for a living, and even I don't really get why its so bad.

EDIT: I have never published through the homebrewery before. I think that this should link to the content - before I review, refine etc., can someone tell me if they see it and its all in an appropriate format?

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/fF_oeicTDUzp
https://imgur.com/5ubxSni

https://imgur.com/5ubxSni

BerzerkerUnit

2023-08-13, 09:24 AM

MrStabby

2023-08-13, 10:00 AM

It all appears to be in order!

Fantastic. Thanks. I just need to polish the class.

I think my problem is too many weak abilities. I had a list of things I wanted, which were extensive.

I added them all. The result was overpowered (naturally) so I powered down so many... now I just have a sea of very situational abilities, abilities of marginal effect and a lack of the big features that really define a lot of other classes - rage, sneak attack action surge, paladin aura.

Plan for next weekend is to run some numbers then recalibrate... and then finally take a look at what other people have put up.

animorte

2023-08-29, 07:41 AM

Putting in my vote to extend this Be Your Own Class contest. Some RL happenings have demanded my attention, but I have a really cool idea I need more time to finish.

Just to Browse

2023-08-29, 09:34 AM

You have my support

Snowben Gaming

2023-08-29, 10:09 AM

An extension would honestly be welcome in my end, so I'll throw my vote in as well.

MrStabby

2023-08-30, 01:28 PM

Whilst I am mostly done, I am all in favour of an extension if it allows others to take part.

And I can still tweak and revise it in that time anyway.

sengmeng

2023-08-31, 08:00 PM

I could have finished, but I could actually revise it now. If I finish it.

MrStabby

2023-09-02, 05:17 AM

IÂ’m most of the way finished with a Mastermind base class at this point.

In terms of other ideas that are appealing, Divine Soul seems to carry some possibility for a whole class. Eldritch Knight has the heft mechanically but itÂ’s not a broad archetype in fiction. Necromancer definitely strikes me as a good choice.

I do agree the necromancer has a lot of potential. I would be really keen to see what you could do with that. My take is that it has to be one of the hardest options to futureproof and balance. Most necromancy spells are just bad - either you balance round typical spells of a given level or you balance round the existing power level of spells. The former is poorly balanced now, the latter gets a bit screwy if in future spells are released that bring the power level up to normal. Maybe if the class comes with some new necromancy spells and is balanced round those then it can be more robust?

In a similar vein I was tempted by spirits bard for a witch doctor class, and might still try that outside the competition.

Shadowmonk seems like it could have more core abilities. Some cleric domains seem like they could replace some elements neatly (does death domain need healing and bless or life domain need inflict wounds?) though this is probably more a homebrew fix. Circle of dreams druid appeals to me as a subclass that has some fluff/expectations not delivered on and where the base class adds features that don't feel like they fit to me. Rogues also feel rich for this - so many themes that are awesome that feel like fitting them into a subclass does them down (Phantom is top of the list, but soulknife, inquisitive, Mastermind and swashbuckler also fit, though I also feel swashbuckler can be reasonably well served by a multiclass).

So many projects for later...

Notafish

2023-09-02, 08:01 AM

I'm still not sure if I will get something together in time, but my thoughts on Necromancer were more along the lines of what BerserkerUnit did with the Sojourner - moving away from spells in favor of class features. Necromancy in DnD is limited to a small set of niches - creating minions, speaking with the dead, and not dying/stealing the life force of others, and all of them could exist outside of the spellcasting system, I feel.

Vogie

2023-09-05, 08:28 AM

I also based my class off of the Mastermind, and have posted it. I'm still figuring out the last subclass, but will update it soon

White Blade

2023-09-05, 08:16 PM

I do agree the necromancer has a lot of potential. I would be really keen to see what you could do with that. My take is that it has to be one of the hardest options to futureproof and balance. Most necromancy spells are just bad - either you balance round typical spells of a given level or you balance round the existing power level of spells. The former is poorly balanced now, the latter gets a bit screwy if in future spells are released that bring the power level up to normal. Maybe if the class comes with some new necromancy spells and is balanced round those then it can be more robust?

My thoughts were similar to Not A Fish's, that you divvy out the class without spells at all. Minion mancy with some extra spells for panache, but mostly just "Here's your monster stat block, here's how many you get."

I will say the other class I thought of was Circle of the Moon Druid. I feel like shapeshifting is such a distinctive flavor of magic and a class that leaned into it would have a very distinct feel. I had a full on "Shapedancer" which was able to either focus into tanking or impersonating idea percolating, but it didn't come together quite right.

I'm not gonna get mine in, I was about 2/3rds through my Mastermind class (which relied on an invocation like subsystem) when it got eaten and then I either didn't have time or motivation to redo it.

MrStabby

2023-09-05, 08:27 PM

My thoughts were similar to Not A Fish's, that you divvy out the class without spells at all. Minion mancy with some extra spells for panache, but mostly just "Here's your monster stat block, here's how many you get."

I will say the other class I thought of was Circle of the Moon Druid. I feel like shapeshifting is such a distinctive flavor of magic and a class that leaned into it would have a very distinct feel. I had a full on "Shapedancer" which was able to either focus into tanking or impersonating idea percolating, but it didn't come together quite right.

I'm not gonna get mine in, I was about 2/3rds through my Mastermind class (which relied on an invocation like subsystem) when it got eaten and then I either didn't have time or motivation to redo it.

Certainly a fair enough perspective. I had taken the perspective of it being really annoying inf you were The Necromancy Character and other PCs were able to do raise dead and animate dead better etc.. Giving those spells seemed the obvious solution but you are right, no reason why the tools shouldn't be class abilities.

Gnomes2169

2023-09-13, 08:49 AM

I exist ONCE MORE. I definitely don't have time to make something for this one but looking forward to join in the next. :smallcool:

Notafish

2023-09-18, 06:47 PM

Yeah, I'm not going to be able to finish the Ur-Necromancer class by the deadline. 20 levels of class features is a bit beyond my ability at the best of times and now is not the best of times for me. I'm going to paste the markup into a word doc so that I can post it once I do have time to work on it. I look forward to reading everyone else's submissions!

MrStabby

2023-09-18, 07:00 PM

animorte

2023-09-18, 07:13 PM

So I could look back over old threads to answer this but...

1) Lazy
2) Interacting an raising the question might be good...

Are we supposed to read and comment before the voting date to provide feedback for changes? Or would that be influencing others and not a good step?

Personally my preference would be less formal and the whole thing being a supportive effort to get everyhing as good as possible (though obvously with respect to different people's tastes).
In my experience, we've all provided constructive criticism, accounting for many interesting conversations and certainly improvements. At the minimum, it helps to create more concise presentation.

I've just been busier than normal lately and sadly haven't been able to contribute as much. Not even sure if I'll be able to present my entry this time. Guess we'll find out tomorrow!

Also, are we supposed to comment our own entries - explaining what we did and why, the underlying calculaions etc. or is that supposed to be broadly obvious?
I believe some people genuinely appreciate seeing part of the thought process, while in other circumstances (personally), it helps to remind you of your own design goals.

Gnomes2169

2023-09-18, 07:22 PM

We've given feedback on classes pre-due-date before, so I'd think that it's fine to give a quick review.

animorte

2023-09-18, 10:04 PM

We've given feedback on classes pre-due-date before, so I'd think that it's fine to give a quick review.
Better before considering no edits are allowed during the voting phase. :smallwink:

Just to Browse

2023-09-19, 09:28 AM

RE: Pre-Voting Reviews: Pre-voting reviews are definitely kosher. animorte recently did quite a few (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25726776&postcount=58), and there have been a lot of reviews in the subclass contest discussion thread as well. I think most folks consider it a generous use of your time, but you shouldn't feel obligated to do it (especially when there are 10 entries like that one cooking contest).

I try to give early feedback if someone does it for me, which, now that I think about it, is a pretty lazy way of going about it. If you want some pre-voting feedback, I'll gladly give the Magician a once-over, and you're free to do mine likewise if you want.

RE: Design Notes: I personally enjoy reading these. I can see these in a sort of gray area, because your notes on a class aren't a "normal" part of the class, and I don't want folks to feel like they need to read all the extra math, reasoning, etc before they leave a review. What would folks think about adding a new line to the contest guidelines to cover this?

As a brewer, you may include non-homebrew content alongside your submission, like design rationales or the math you used to determine certain features. However, please keep this extraneous content separate from the main content, such as in a spoiler or a separate post. Reviewers aren't obligated to read these notes before voting.

MrStabby

2023-09-19, 05:46 PM

OK, going to try and work my way through what's in the submissions so far. Apologies if I don't make it through all of them before the deadline. In fact, I am pretty sure I won't get through them all in good time so I am diving in (and sorry for any I comment on unfinished; I worry if a wait I won't have time to cover things. My schedule is unpredictable) Also, it can take a bit to parse a whole class in just a few readings, so it might need some further additions or I might just be wildly wrong.

My interspersed comments are going to be my immediate reactions going through. Some of these might be reconsidered at the end, but it tracks my instantanious thoughts.

Arcane Archer

Quick Build
You can make an arcane archer quickly by following these suggestions. First, Dexterity should be your highest ability score, followed by Intelligence. Second, choose the outlander background.

Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th

1st
+2
Magic Shot, Cantrips
2
—
—
—
—
—
—

2nd
+2
Spellcasting, Fighting Style
2
3
2
—
—
—
—

3rd
+2
Role
2
4
3
—
—
—
—

4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
2
4
3
—
—
—
—

5th
+3
Extra Attack, Imbue Arrow
2
5
4
2
—
—
—

6th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
2
5
4
2
—
—
—

7th
+3
Role Feature
2
6
4
3
—
—
—

8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
2
6
4
3
—
—
—

9th
+4
Arcane Shot
2
7
4
3
2
—
—

10th
+4
—
3
7
4
3
2
—
—

11th
+4
Role Feature
3
8
4
3
3
—
—

12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
3
8
4
3
3
—
—

13th
+5
—
3
9
4
3
3
1
—

14th
+5
Role Feature
3
9
4
3
3
1
—

15th
+5
Anti-magic Shot
4
10
4
3
3
2
—

16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
4
10
4
3
3
2
—

17th
+6
—
4
11
4
3
3
3
1

18th
+6
Role Feature
4
11
4
3
3
3
1

19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
4
12
4
3
3
3
2

20th
+6
Arcane Volley
4
12
4
3
3
3
2

Class Features
As an arcane archer, you gain the following class features.
Hit Points
___
- Hit Dice: 1d10 per arcane archerlevel
- Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
- Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per arcane archer level above the 1st

Proficiencies
___
- Armor: Light armor
- Weapons: Simple weapons, longbows, shortbows.
- Tools: none
- Saving Throws: Dexterity, Intelligence
- Skills: Choose three from Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, History, Insight, Nature, Religion, and Stealth.

Equipment
You start off with the following equipment in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

- ( a ) longbow or ( b ) shortbow
- 20 arrows
- a simple weapon
- ( a ) leather armor or ( b ) hide armor
- An explorer's pack
---
If you forego this starting equipment, as well as the items offered by your background, you start with 4d4 × 10 gp to buy your equipment.

Dex and Int are not going to be the strongest of saves, especaly on a spellcaster that is probably going to want con saves. On the othr hand, archer so a bit safer. Light armour only is probably fine on an archer as assuming a dex build. The weapons seem pretty restrictive - basically just simple weapons plus bows. If you get caught in melee it looks like a tough break for you - a rapier might help out a bit whilst not realy raising peak power, just slighty raising the floor when shooting is impractical.

Half caster spells is setting my benchmarks to Paladin/Ranger, though a LOT will depend on the actual spell list.

Magic Shot
Beginning at first level, the Arcane Archer can make an attack with a bow as a bonus action if they use their action to cast a cantrip. This attack overcomes resistance or immunity to nonmagical weapon damage.

Cantrips
At first level, the Arcane Archer learns two cantrips from the Arcane Archer spell list.

First level would seem to be a mandatory dip for warlocks? A free bonus action attack for a 1 level dip which is otherwise tough to get with shooting seems very attractive - even just stacking rogue evels to dump sneak attack damage on top would be very nasty. Still, something like this somewhere seems advisable to stop the archer class being out-archered by fighters and raners shooting of more arrows at higher levels. At low levels (before 2nd attack) this could be strong (depending on available cantrips) and gives some very early access to magical damage.

I worry that as you get higher levels this will become like the Eldritch Knight and the cantrip choice just becomes worse and worse as your attack action becomes better and better.

Fighting Style

Spellcasting

TBC

Role
Arcane Archers choose to focus on one of four roles, which may support units of elven defensive forces, or do battle more independently. Each niche style of battle focuses on two schools of magic, blending their archery and spells to accomplish a distinct function. Other combinations are rumored to be possible, but only four are formally documented and taught. You gain additional features based on this choice at seventh, eleventh, fourteenth, and eighteenth levels.Moving alone ahead of advancing armies, the Scout Deceiver is a master of remaining unseen and gathering information, often foregoing doing any damage or inflicting any casualties on the enemy so as to hide the fact that he was ever there at all. However, when revealed, the Scout Deceiver can still bring incredibly deadly skills to the fight.Similar oftentimes in practice to the Scout Deceiver, the Grim Sniper also focuses on stealth, but is deployed on missions to harass and cripple enemy troops by targeting their leadership and sowing fear into their ranks before escaping.Wholly different in philosophy, the Divine Artillerist behaves and is utilized more like a piece of siege equipment than a scout or sniper, using the destructive (and attention-grabbing) power of the Evocation school and protecting themselves from retaliation with the Abjuration school.The Inevitable Hunter is the least likely to engage the enemy as part of a military operation. They can be as stealthy as the Scout Deceiver or Grim Sniper, but are more mobile, and sent after the most evasive and well-defended quarry.

I love the way that the impicit associateion with spell schools ties in with the arcane element of arcane archer and the wizardy tradition. That said, some thins seem a bit counterintuative - for example the scout doesn'tget divination magic? The Role of a scout is to gather information, and this seems really on point for a scout. Illuson seems a good fit for the whole invisability thing, though I could also see conjuration for the teleportation elements.

Grim sniper... well "grim" does speak to necromancy and sniper seems to be reflecting single target damage; I guess I don't see divination here but not sure what else to use. I haven't seen the spell lis at this point but I feel necromancy spells are pretty weak in combat much of the time and divination spells are not really combat focussed either. It worries me slightly for balance (class abilities might rebalance around this though - this is an as-I-read-it review!)

Divine Artilerist... thematically not sure what's happening. Divine + Arcane + Archer seems like it might be spread a bit themaicaly thin. Will its feeing in pay match the description? The spell schools also seem unfortunate - not wrong, but with the arcane archer being martial + arcane maic and this being the eldritch knight's thing and with these spell schools matching that class so closely... I worry it just needs extra work to not feel redundant. Later abilities might address this, but damaging spells don't tend to scale wel at higher levels so evocation on a half caster has a risk of being unerwhelming.

And the Inevitable hunter... curious. To avoid the feeling that its filing in space as there are two spell schools left, it really needs to weave these two schools ogether into a cohesive whole. I would have thought the abjuration school might be a good match here for the "keeps going" implication of the name (or necromancy, or evocation for healing). That said, I am excited by what this could offer - the versatiliy of a transmutation theme and a conjuration theme could be very cool.

Extra Attack
Standard... I guess.

Imbue Arrow
TBC

Arcane Shot
Beginning at ninth level, you can make an attack with a bow as a bonus action if you use your action to cast a spell or cantrip. This attack overcomes resistance or immunity to nonmagical weapon damage, and deals an extra 1d4 damage + another 1d4 damage per the level of the spell. The type of extra damage is determined by the school of magic the spell came from: Psychic for Divination, Illusion, and Enchantment, Radiant for Abjuration, Force or Thunder for Conjuration, Acid for Transmutation, Fire or Lightning for Evocation, and Necrotic or Poison for Necromancy.

Curious how this is intended to work with level 1 magic shot -seems a lot of overlap. Possibly due to me jumping the gun taking a look at this. Still, as written it expands the use to any spell and adds a little extra damage - just enough to feel it.

Anti-Magic Shot
Beginning at fifteenth level, whenever you fire an arrow as a normal attack as part of taking the attack action, it ignores any spell or magical effect that would affect its ability to hit or deal damage, including passing through objects made of force (but not objects or creatures created by magic as an instantaneous affect). If a creature is struck by this arrow while concentrating on a spell, they make their save to maintain the spell at disadvantage.
I love this ability. Personay it feels like it might fall into the probem I see with some ranger subclasses that their good, cool definein abilities are all late game so unless your game goes long, you won't get to play with them for long. This feels like reason why someone would become an aracne archer, especially if they had the stat-line to be a wizard. Cutting through magic items, shield spells, walls of force is very cool.

You have done a good job with trying to be clear on a complex ability, though there are still a few things that might need clarification. Magical for damage resistance - any spell that does it is clear as would be something like the maic from a ring of resistance. What about magic resistance from other sources - fiendish resistance to damage types for example? What about things that make it harder to hit - shield spell easily seems in scope, as would mirror image, but what if darkness gave disadvantage (weridly now depending on why its black to determine probability of being hit) or what about blindness? Things like armour of agathys don't prevent damage, they just give temp HP that takes the damage (whilst something like an arcane ward does prevent damage) but thematically I could see the arrow cutting streight through AoA.

Arcane Volley
At twentieth level, when you take the attack action with a ranged weapon, you can make one attack against every enemy in range, dealing an extra 1d4 damage with each. You have a choice of any damage type, and can expend a spell slot to add another 1d4 per level of the spell slot expended. Every arrow must use the same damage type.[/QUOTE]
So a fun capstone, but I do wonder if this could be earlier. Hunter gets volly several levels earlier. I worry that this adds to the tension between using an action for a cantrip and for an atack action. I worry that you are going to end up with dead abilities.

Overall, keen to see the missing elements. Hard to opine on balance before then but the themes are pretty strong. I think the big challenge is going to be articulating why not play a ranger or a fghter that can overlap strongly, especially as some abilities are actually pretty close to abilties from one or other of these classes.

I wonder if it might be helpful to drop extra attack. I know this sounds crazy, but you could add other abilties to buff one shot, abilties that would be somewhat overpowered with multiple attacks but so unique it would define the class. Then the ability to cast a cantrip alongside that shot would always count for something. Of course, then you might want to also put crosbows on the proficiency list.

MrStabby

2023-09-20, 05:51 PM

And another... same warnings as before!

Storm Herald

https://66.media.tumblr.com/0e8b2c5c0d381ae38b419391765f9440/tumblr_ogvuf0UclU1rc85kko1_1280.jpg

A goliath clad in hide stands atop a mountain. As she screams into the sky, a dark storm brews above her, and lightning arcs between swirls of shadowed clouds.

As an injured gnome takes a moment's rest under in the shade, kind winds swirl around him, magically sealing his bleeding wounds and settings his broken bones.

An armored figure plummets to the ground from the sky in the midst of an army and begins to hew their way through the ranks. Arcing lightning and vicious winds spew forth from their armor, throwing enemies to and fro.

Storm heralds are masters of weather's dangerous edge. They can call upon the these powers to heal and protect, or to wreak devastation. As a storm herald fights, they grow in power until they become akin to the wrathful storms that guide them.

Storm's Tutelage
To become a storm herald is to understand and honor storms. Some take upon the mantle of storm herald after a close encounter with a natural disaster, while others learn of the great storms from family histories, academic literature, or ancient prophecies, and seek to understand those storms more deeply. Weather is part of life across the world, so storm heralds can hail from all kinds of backgrounds, but most storm heralds hone their talents in places where their storms are commonplace, like arid deserts, tropical coasts, and icy tundras.

Of Wind and War
Storm heralds are warriors at heart, but have magical talents that allow them to invoke the winds from afar. In battle, many storm heralds rely upon chants while their soul storm grows in power, manipulating foes and bolstering allies until they are powerful enough to join the fray. A storm herald's rage offers them unparalleled power, but prevents them from using finer magics, including their chants. Even worse, a storm herald risks running out of stamina during their rage, leaving themselves in a weakened state without any power to draw on. Mastery of the storm requires knowing the right time to tap into your inner rage.

Class Features
As a storm lord, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d12 per storm herald level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d12 (or 7) + your Constitution modifier per storm herald level after 1st.

Proficiencies
Armor: Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
Saving Throws: Strength, Wisdom
Skills: Choose two from Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Persuasion, and Survival
Equipment:

(a) chain mail, or (b) scale mail, or (c) leather armor
(a) a martial weapon and a shield, or (b) two martial weapons
(a) a longbow and 20 arrows, or (b) five nets
An explorer's pack

D12 hit dice? A bit of a tough guy. Lots of heavy armour, shields points to bein an excelent tank. Barbarian hit points with a fighter AC (though no defence fighting style I guess)?

Strength and wisdom are good saves - well strength is good if you want mobility.

Level
Prof.
Features

Storm Die

Masteries Known

1
+2
Intensity, Storm Strikes, Warding Wind

d4

-

2
+2
Storm Masteries, Bask in the Eye

d4

1

3
+2
Prolonged Rage (3), Storm Terrain

d6

1

4
+2
Ability Score Improvement

d6

1

5
+3
Extra Attack, Stormwalker

d6

1

6
+3
Controlled Intensity

d6

2

7
+3
Prolonged Rage (5), Storm Terrain Improvement

d8

2

8
+3
Ability Score Improvement

d8

2

9
+4
Coax the Sky

d8

2

10
+4
Rapid Genesis

d8

2

11
+4
Prolonged Rage (7), Ride the Wind

d10

3

12
+4
Ability Score Improvement

d10

3

13
+5
Stormrage

d10

3

14
+5
Storm Terrain Improvement

d10

3

15
+5
Relentless Storm

d10

3

16
+5
Ability Score Improvement

d12

4

17
+6
Prolonged Rage (9)

d12

4

18
+6
Storm Terrain Improvement

d12

4

19
+6
Ability Score Improvement

d12

4

20
+6
Stormfury

d12

4

Intensity
Your powers follow the path of great storms: gathering in power to a raging peak, before fading away. This is represented by the state of your intensity. You can be in one of four states: Calm, Gathering, Raging, and Weakened.

Calm. By default, you are Calm, which usually allows you to call upon kinder, softer magics. At the end of your turn, you may choose to become Gathering, as the storm in your soul begins to grow.
Gathering. While Gathering, your storm powers begin to grow. Certain features, such as Storm Strike, give you benefits in this state. At the end of your turn, you must become Raging, and your inner storm reaches its maximum.
Raging. While Raging, your storm powers are at their peak. You usually receive the greatest combat benefits in this state. At the end of your turn, you must become Weakened, as the energies of your storms fade away.
Weakened. While Weakened, you are without power. Unless otherwise specified, you can’t use your storm herald features while weakened. At the end of your turn, you must become Calm, as your storm powers return to their original form.

You can track this progression using a d4, setting with 1 representing your Calm state and 4 representing your Weakened state.

Intensity
Changes to
When

Calm
Gathering
You choose to become Gathering at the end of your turn.

Gathering
Raging
You end your turn while Gathering.

Raging
Weakened
You end your turn while Raging.

Weakened
Calm
You end your turn while Weakened.

Storm Die
As your storm magic swells, your attacks become more dangerous. This is represented by your Storm Die, which begins at a d4. While you are Raging, you may add your Storm Die to the damage dealt with your melee weapon attacks.

Your Storm Die increases as you gain levels according to the storm herald table.

Right ok... so this is where it gets complicated... level 1. I love it. Lets get my head round this.
So roughly the shape of the class seems to be you get a storm die, which is a major feature that powers your stuff, which grows as you level up. This seem important.

And intensity. Well clearly worded (I realise this sounds patronising, but honestly - when you know exactly wha you mean to say its so easy to write it in a way that is clear to you but opaque to others. Genuinely applauding and appreciating clarity I fear I have failed to deliver in my own efforts). So you get to ratchet up in combat...

Before seeing the detail, this sounds... cool. So your typical fight lasts about three rounds. Some are less, some have a bit of manuvering and positioning and buffing beforehand to take them to 4 rounds and some are genuinely big fights that take longer. I think this rate of escalaton is a perfec fit for that - giving you (likely) the abaility to decide a fight in round 3, but also a ot of pressure to do so. Being weighted towards the end of a fight will help powerful abilities not overshadow others who go to shine on earlier turns. I realy like it.

The storm die increments are irregular, which isn't a problem, but it made me wonder what else was going on (or is it just an arithmetic progression for the number of levels at each die size?). Is d4 a "starter die" and you want to get out soon? Is waiting to level 3 before giving a D6 to make it less of an attractive dip? I am certainly curious about this as typically it is a challenge getting martials to scale well at higher levels as casters pull away so I would have expected denser upgrades at the top and sparser at the bottom.

And the theme... great. I loved the idea of the barbarian sub-class, but my lack of love for th barbarian and the specific implementation never tempted me.

Warding Wind
Without even a thought, winds swirl around you to protect you. If you would add your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class, you may add your Wisdom modifier instead.

Interesting ability. Very cool. Might need some clarificaton about whther bonuses are capped by armour type in the same way (i.e. plate doesn't let you add wisdom); I presume this is the case.

I think this ability is subtly strong. So you get to pump Wis instead of Dex, swapping some good saves. A failed Wisdom save will take you out of the fight, a failed dex save will cost you HP - though this class seems to not have HP loss as a particular vulnerability due to larger HD size and good AC to shrug off other attacks on a depleted total. It makes sense to avoid being over-MAD.

Storm Masteries
When you reach 2nd level, you learn to channel the roiling energies in your soul, taking on the characteristics of storms. You learn a single storm mastery, detailed at the end of this class. Storm masteries grant you features that depend on your intensity, and you must focus on storm masteries as you move closer to rage. See the full rules for storm masteries at the end of this class description.

When a storm mastery requires a saving throw, the DC is:

Storm DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

Will review down-page

Bask in the Eye
Starting at 2nd level, you can call upon gentle, healing winds to mend your wounds and rejuvenate your fighting spirit. While you are Calm, you can use an action to regain hit points equal to 2 rolls of your Storm Die.

You may use this ability a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier, and you regain expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Hmm. Nice job on scalling this. I am already picking up a really good tenson between boosting Wisdom and boosting your attack stat. It feels like different players might play the class differently which is very cool. The rising amount healed with both wisdom and die size keeps the ability somewhat relevant into the later game whilst still being very clearly an early game focussed ability. At early levels, this is a lot of healing though - a 14 would seem to be a reasonable minimum for Wisdom to start with so at level 1 thats an expectation of 10 points of heaing per long rest, beating out a Paladin's lay on hands and not being far behind a cleric if they opted to use both their spell slots for cure wounds.

On the flip side, you can't heal others so its a lot less powerful and i is probaby a between combats thing. Still, it bolsers the feeling I am getting of a really tough, tanky character. COuld be fun with something like a dwarf with extra HP but wihtout increased HP recovery - you can keep yourself topped off.

Prolonged Rage
At 3rd level, you can ride your intensity just a bit longer. You can remain Raging for 3 rounds before you must become Weakened.

The duration you can continue raging increases by 2 rounds at 7th level (5 rounds), 11th level (7 rounds), and 17th level (9 rounds).

OK... this was unexpected. I liked the cadence of the rising and falling power of the character. Of course, hard to judge in isolation wihtout the specific abilities, but it seems that this is going to be a MAJOR buff for logner fights or where there is some prep/warning or can chose when to engage. This is going to make a lot of the class power very DM dependent and hard to evaluate.

Terrain Archetype
At 3rd level, you choose a terrain that you are most familiar with, which shapes the expression of your storms. Choose from Desert, Sea, or Tunda. Your choice grants you features at 3rd level, and again at 10th, 14th, and 18th level.

So the subclass. I think you made a good choice here - from a flavour perspective I would be keen to play any of these.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

Standard... yes, but it ells us something about what you are using your actions for.

Stormwalker
At 5th level, you can bring winds that swirl around you in short bursts. As a bonus action, gain a flying speed of 30 feet for 1 minute. At the end of the duration, you lose this flying speed, and you can’t use this feature for another minute.
This seems... higher level. Its no faster than normal move, it doesn't dodge opportunity attacks but no resource, no concentraton flying is a big deal - having played PCs with racial flying. It feels like it makes thematic sense and it oesn't boost combat power that much... most of the time. I just worry it might annoy the DM as it circumvents easily a lot of obstacles/chaenges that are good n early T2 and gives a massive advantage against any casters using terrain altering spells or walls. It feels like even if it were once per day it would still feel special and cool and 5th level would still fel a powerful level.

Controlled Intensity
Beginning at 6th level, the storm inside you is ever-roiling, an untapped energy that you can keep just barely at the surface. When you end your turn while Gathering, you only become Raging if you want to. Otherwise, you can remain Gathering indefinitely.
I really need a better sense of what this means to evaluate properly. Later, after I have read the other abilities.

Coax the Sky
Starting at 9th level, when you spend at least 8 hours in a location, you can shape the weather around you. You can shift the precipitation, temperature, and wind within 5 miles of you as though you had cast the spell control weather. Unlike the spell, you can only shift the weather within 1 stage, and this effect does not require concentration.
Nice. A good ribbon or on-combat ability adds a lot of favour.

Rapid Genesis
Beginning at 10th level, you can call upon your rage in a heartbeat. At the start of your turn, if you are Calm, you may become Gathering.
Personally, I am not sure I am loving this. It seems like you have a really cool mechanic that rewards you for pacing yourself and looking to unleash your most powerful effects at just the right time... and then you add so many abilities and so much of your 'power budget' for the class making this really engaging mechanic less of a feature. Now there is no functional "calm" state except a nod between combats to use your healing. Its either gathering or spenign quite some time at Raging. Turn 1 starts with gathering and end of Turn 1 you can hit raging. Turns 2, 3, 4, 5, 6... all raging. If combat runs to 7 turns. Its also maybe worth highlighting that this ability doesn't seem to do much. Per your level 6 ability you can be walking around in gathering all day anyway so why would you be stepping up (to be fair, I haven't read the masteries yet, so there may be some serious penalties).

Ride the Wind
At 11th level, your control over the air is perfect, allowing you to form a bubble of air that you perfectly control. This gives you a flying speed of 60 feet and allows you to move and breathe freely even in places without air, such as the deep ocean or the void of realmspace. In addition, strong winds, both natural and magical, can’t move you unless you choose to be moved.
It seems like a "bubble" feels too neat and orderly and self-contained as a descripton for a class feature! Level 11 is typically a strongish combat buff as well. Flying is cool but it feels the level could take more. I do observe there is a lot of stuff happening in the background - raging lasts longer, storm die increases, another mastery. Its... an OK level but I do wonder if when your peers are getting level 6 spells, third attacks, improved divine smites... is this going to feel like you get less?

Stormrage
At 13th level, you can focus on two storm masteries when you begin Gathering instead of one.
Guessing this is significant. Coming online at the same time as level 7 spells, I would hope so.

Relentless Storm
Beginning at 15th level, if you drop to 0 hit points while Gathering or Raging and don’t die outright, you can make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw. If you succeed, you drop to 1 hit point instead.

Each time you use this feature after the first, the DC increases by 5. When you finish a short or long rest, the DC resets to 10.

If there were to be any ability to chang in isolation so far, it would be this one. Your level 6 ability lets you always be in Gathering. You can always take the saving throw. Pick up resilient (con) and you can make it really, really hard to fail a DC10 save. You are not strictly immortal, but you will be about as close as you can get without moon druid or long death monk. Failing a second is still not a given - DC15 with something like a +7 or maybe up to +9 (with magic items and half-decent Con) and a third save of DC20 is even in reach.

Stormfury
When you reach 20th level, you can wield the power of storms with ease. You can focus on three storm masteries simultaneously instead of two.

I really ought to read what these storm masteries do!

Storm Masteries
Storm masteries represent your connection to the powerful storms of this world. Each storm mastery offers two features: Chants and Furies. Chants are features that can be used while Calm or Gathering, with a bonus while Gathering. These tend to focus on protection, control, and self-buffing. Furies are features that can only be used while Raging, and involve getting to other creatures and hurting them.

While you are Calm, you can use any chant from any of your masteries. However, when you begin Gathering, you must choose a single storm mastery to focus on. This makes your chants more powerful, and eventually allows you to use your destructive furies. At higher levels, you can focus on multiple storm masteries at once, making your personal storms uniquely destructive and difficult to counter.

SO I had to read this twice to get it... but it seems a genuinely cool mechanic. Sarting to get why there is also a gost to staying in a given storm-stage. Maybe. I also seriously love the anticipated feel of evolving with the fight to focus in on a specific aspect of your storm and to really take he fight to the enemy, going from a bit of a generalist... then (possibly) returning to a stage where you can heal and shore up defences and recover to go again (for epic fights).

Blizzard
Blizzards are prolonged, wide-spread storms of snow and ice. While focusing on your blizzard mastery, the air around you grows cold and a light rime coats you and your equipment.

Blizzard Die
You may have your Storm Die deal cold damage while focusing on this mastery.

Rimeforge
Level 2 - Chant
You can use an action to call upon a flash of fortifying rime that shields your allies. Up to three creatures other than you within 30 feet of you gain temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier plus a roll of your Storm Die. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute.

If you are Gathering, you also gain these temporary hit points.

At 7th level, add your storm herald level to the temporary hit points from this feature.

At 17th level, while these temporary hit points persist, creatures receive a +2 bonus to Armor Class.

This seems... very powerful. As an acton you start to add (at level 2) about 10 HP to the party. At level 10 that is an action to potentially add about 60 HP to the party. Yes it needs an action but its not limited number of times per day. For all you might miss out on attacking, this kind of extra HP seems better under most circumstances.

Concealing Fog
Level 2 - Fury
A cold, swirling fog billows forth from you while you rage, blocking sight from far away. Creatures consider you heavily obscured unless they are adjacent to you, though they can still use the moving fog to pinpoint your position.

At the start of a creature’s turn, if they are adjacent to you, they take cold damage equal to 1 roll of your Storm Die.

Well the damage isn't much, but forcing spellcasters to clsoe with you to target you with their spells is going to swing fights against this type of enemy.

Storm’s Reach
Level 7 - Fury
Like the great blizzards, your reach extends long. Your reach is 10 feet greater while focusing on this mastery.
I mean its good and its useful, and it doesn't need an action... and it seems to work with PAM+Sentinel which is a bit crazy good... Absoultely a nice feature to have on call.

Whiteout
Level 17 - Fury
As an action, you can call upon a massive ice storm which rages for 3 rounds or until you lose your concentration (as if you were concentrating on a spell).

This storm is composed of freezing rain and sleet in a 20-foot tall cylinder with a 40-foot radius centered on you, which follows you as you move. The area is heavily obscured and difficult terrain. Exposed flames in the area are doused.

When a creature starts its turn in the area, it must make a Dexterity saving throw and a Constitution saving throw. On a failed Dexterity save, it falls prone. It takes 4d6 cold damage on a failed Constitution save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

After you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you become Calm.
I think this is awesome. No limit to uses, but some hoops to jump through to get it back. Light damage for level 17 but adding a flavourful control element and the double save... I don't think a mosnter would expend a legendary resistance on this unless desperate though. As part of a broad package, this is very cool.

Cyclone
Cyclones are storms of swirling wind and clouds, generating heavy rain, wind, and lightning. While focusing on the cyclone mastery, lightning forms around you and your footsteps leave the echoes of thunder.

Cyclone Die
You may have your Storm Die deal lightning damage while focusing on this mastery.

Dark Lightning
Level 2 - Chant
As an action, you may conjure a blast of lightning from the skies. Select a 5-foot cube within 30 feet of you. Each creature within that cube must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes lightning damage equal to 3 rolls of your Storm Die, or half as much damage on a successful one.

If you are Gathering, you may then appear within 5 feet of the chosen space. You can use this feature only if you haven’t moved this turn, and after you use this feature your movement speed is 0 until the end of the current turn.

At 7th level, the range of this feature increases to 120 feet and the damage improves to 4 rolls of your Storm Die.

At 17th level, the range of this feature increases to 600 feet and the damage improves to 6 rolls of your Storm Die.
This is where I totally reavaluate some bits of the class. I had mentally thought of it as a martial class with some nice cool abilities bolted on to do some more stuff. This makes me think of the class as an armoured blaster, with other support tools - like the cleric, but tougher and more damaging. OK, is a bit of an exageration but 4d8 damage at level 7... at 120ft. Its very good for a class that brings so much other stuff (and its not like an attack with 0 on a miss, its half damage on a save).

Also, an easy 120f teleport like this is very nice to have.

Lightning Strikes
Level 2 - Fury
When you strike, lightning arcs from your target to another creature. When you hit with a melee weapon attack, lightning leaps from the target to a different creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it. The second creature takes lightning damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.

At 7th level, add your Storm Die to this damage.
Its one of those features that is maybe a bit weak by iteself but is a useful adition as part of a broad selection of abilities.

Weapon of Lightning
Level 7 - Fury
When you wield a melee weapon, it gains the Thrown (60 / 120) property. When thrown this way, the weapon becomes a bolt of lightning that arcs from you towards your target, then returns to you. The damage type of the weapon is lightning damage during this throw, and the weapon flies back to your hand after the attack is complete.
So its level 7, which is safely midgame for most adventures I have seen. Still, it lets you take a greatsword and fling it out 60ft with each attack? This is cool.

Lightning Leap
Level 17 - Fury
As an action, you may turn yourself into a bolt of lightning. This line is as wide as you are, rounding to the nearest 5 feet, and can be of any length from 10 feet to 120 feet. Creatures within the line must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 6d6 lightning damage, or half as much on a successful one.

You then appear in any space adjacent to the end of the line, along with any gear you are wearing or carrying, up to a maximum of your heavy load limit.

After you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you become Calm.

Getting UA Mystic vibes here.
OK, but not crazy good for level 17.

Sandstorm
Sandstorms are gusts of loose sand and dirt, raised into turbulent clouds. While focusing on the duststorm mastery, stones and dirt around you pick up in the winds and begin to swirl around you.

Sandstorm Die
You may have your Storm Die deal magical slashing damage while focusing on this mastery.

Choking Clouds
Level 2 - Chant
As an action, you can agitate rocks, dust, and sand in an area, forming a short-lived cloud of swirling particulates. You create a 20-foot tall, 5-foot radius cylinder of circulating dust. This cylinder persists for 1 minute, or until another cylinder is created. A creature other than you that enters the dust storm or starts its turn there takes slashing damage equal to a roll of your Storm Die.

If you are Gathering or using the One Thousand Cuts feature, this cloud is particularly vicious. A creature that takes damage from the cylinder must make a Constitution saving throw or be temporarily distracted for 1 round. During this time, the creature is considered blinded if it needs to see beyond 10 feet.

At 7th level, the radius of the cylinder becomes 15 feet and the damage improves to two rolls of your Storm Die.

At 17th level, when you create one of these cylinders, you may choose to make any number of creatures immune to their damage. The damage improves to four rolls of your Storm Die.

Damage is pretty modest again, but the blinded conditon is nasty. Even 10ft vision wil give all your party archers advantage... ever wanted to play a grappler. This is a serious buff to throw about.

One Thousand Cuts
Level 2 - Fury
While you are raging, the area within 5 feet of you is surrounded by a small sandstorm. The effects of this sandstorm are the same as the one created by your Choking Cloud feature.
This almost seems weak? I guess you move it with you and you still hep party archers.

Dissipate
Level 7 - Fury
When you are dealt damage by a target you can see, you may use a reaction to become part of your swirling sandstorm, granting you resistance to that damage.
Similar to the rogues uncanny dodge. But it does more than attacks and you need to see the other creature... and it doesn't stack with resistance. Still a small part of a selection being about on par with a major level 5 class feature of the rogue seems rough.

Invade the Body
Level 17 - Fury
As an action, you may channel the sand and dust from your sandstorm into a stream of particles that invades a creature’s body and ravages it from the inside out. A creature adjacent to you must make 2 Constitution saving throws.

A creature that fails both saving throws takes 6d6 magical slashing damage and is stunned until the end of your next turn. A creature that fails one of the saving throws takes the damage but isn’t stunned. A creature that succeeds on both throws takes half of the damage.

After you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you become Calm.
Nasty... but seems fair for a level 17 ability.

Squall
Squalls are gusts of sudden, violent wind. While focusing on the squall mastery, a rising breeze forms around you.

Squall Die
You may have your Storm Die deal thunder damage while focusing on this mastery.

Soar upon the Wind
Level 2 - Chant
As an action, you can grant your allies a boon of speed. Until the end of your next turn, up to 3 other creatures of your choice add 1d4 to their attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws.

If you are Gathering, this bonus also applies to you.

At 7th level, affected creatures also gain a flying speed equal to their movement speed.

At 17th level, affected creatures can spend 5 feet of movement to escape from nonmagical restraints, such as manacles or creatures that have them grappled.[spoiler]

Realatively innocuous. Some buffs tha you can sustain if not doing other combat stuff, some mobility boosts from the party that are great but situational.

Derecho
Level 2 - Fury
Your movement speed is increased by 30 feet and you do not provoke opportunity attacks.

This bonus is doubled at 7th level (60 feet) and 17th level (120 feet).

With easy access to a flying speed (and this doesn't specify walking) this looks like an ideal tool for dropping enemies from a great height with a grappler. Dashing for 120ft will quickly get you to lethal altitudes for most enemies.

Shockwave
Level 7 - Fury
When you move, you can leave a brief vacuum that collapses. At the end of your turn, each creature that was within 5 feet of you while you moved must make a Constitution saving throw. A creature takes thunder damage equal to three rolls of your Storm Die on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one.
Something that does this much damage but no action neded? Just movement? I guess it really is like spirit guardians with 3d8 damage, no action needed... as an undispellable, no resource ability?

Microburst
Level 17 - Fury
As an action, you can call a powerful downdraft. Choose a circle with an area of 10 feet. You move in the perimeter of that circle, and then call a gushing stream of wind downwards into that circle. Each creature within the circle has its speed set to 0 until the start of your next turn.

After you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you become Calm.
A zero save, zero legendary resistance protected way of pinning down the tarrasque? If you are supposed to move round the outside of the circle of diameter 10ft as part of the action, you had better not be a dwarf. If its radus 10ft then I can't think of a race that can. If the area is 10 square ft... then easier.

Well wonderful GitP forum lost everything I had written from here down when I tried o post. Maybe, if I feel inclined I will rewrite the rest of my comments and wrap up conclusions again later. Maybe not.

sengmeng

2023-09-20, 07:20 PM

@MrStabby thanks for the review. I'm embarrassed that I didn't get it finished. I'll complete it and post it after voting ends.

Just to Browse

2023-09-20, 08:09 PM

Appreciate the detailed look, MrStabby. What you wrote gives me plenty to chew on. I'll see if I can give you my impression of your class before the voting thread goes up.

Edit: I am stupid lol. It's already up.

MrStabby

2023-09-21, 10:59 AM

Better before considering no edits are allowed during the voting phase. :smallwink:

Welp. I missed that deadline. :smallmad:

There goes my wish to actually provide feedback on every piece of content! I hadn't kept up with how time was sliding by - with the extension I figured I had plenty of time as I wasn't making many changes.

I need to reread and digest all of them anyway.

Its pretty difficult to objectively judge any of these. So much is personal preference. Still, I thought I would try and articulate that to help keep me honest and to explain some choices that might otherwise seem odd:

1) Something I would want to play mechanically. So yeah, subjective but a balance of good activated abilities, passive abilities and feeling that my character is mechanically disinct from others. Progresson that feels rewarding - a nice trickle of new abilities that add to what the class can do (rather than just increasing numbers), abilities appropriate to level of play. Also nice if the abiities are cumulative - its nice if at level 16 you can still feel you are getting value from an ability you got at level 2, it ads to the feeling of continuity.

2) Something I would like to play alongside as a player. So a class that is at risk of outshining another player or obviating the game-plan of another class is bad. So things like haning out advantage to easily undermines rogues and barbarians, anything handing out too many temp HP (like say a Twilight Cleric) obviates healing classes. Obviously everything does this to an extent, so its a matter of degree. Does the class have abilities that just end an encouner - it might be "balanced" if its once per day, but still (subjectively) not fun to play alongside. Less common is drawbacks - a weakness that distorts play; one example might be tings like mechanics that sacrifice HP for power and force other players to coddle the PC or to sacrifice their own healing to stay in the game (exceptions can be made for classes that have strong defences and they end up no more vulnerable than others (raging barbarian with reckless attack for example))

3) Something I would want at my table when I DM. This is a number of things... one is raw power. Is it too powerful or too weak. Then there is how the power is distributed - in part will it dominate some encounters as above, but also how much work I have to do as a DM to keep things in line. A class that is weak but can kill bugbears and brown oozes with a glance is going to be a pain to keep fun for everyone in a lot of encounters. A class with a mix of short and long rest resources, combat and non-combat abilities, offensive and defensive options is likily to give me a lot of freedom as a DM to tweak things so that the class feels special whilst keeping power levels constant.

4) Flavour and theme. Almost entirely subjective. I like a strong fantasy element. I like classes that feel disinct from others, that say something about the world/setting. I like classes that feel like a class rather than an attempt to recrate a single character or instance of a class.

Reading back I feel this strongly favours something that is ready to play over something with really great ideas but is maybe a bit imbalanced or needs a few tweaks in wording to eal with unintended consequences. I kind of feel this is wrong, but also the alternative of cuttin a bit more slack runs into questions of "how much". I guess that all of this is a long way of saying I have little actual idea of what I am trying to do when it comes to voting.

BerzerkerUnit

2023-09-21, 11:44 AM

Welp. I missed that deadline. :smallmad:

There goes my wish to actually provide feedback on every piece of content! I hadn't kept up with how time was sliding by - with the extension I figured I had plenty of time as I wasn't making many changes.

snip

I'd still appreciate any feedback you have when you get the chance.

MrStabby

2023-09-21, 12:33 PM

I'd still appreciate any feedback you have when you get the chance.

You are welcome to it. Hopefully get some time later this evening.

animorte

2023-09-21, 05:43 PM

What would folks think about adding a new line to the contest guidelines to cover this?
Check the OP.

I will also be including this as part of future contests. Very nicely put!

MrStabby

2023-09-21, 06:29 PM

Alright, so Conjuration Wizard. What if I just want to be Teleporter guy or spacewarp magic guy? Here's the Sojourner.

Sojourner (https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Kf_P4rAkUaFhhHslWCuDaxlDLEUzkbl/view?usp=drive_link)
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An elf reaches forward, the tips of their fingers seeming to dissolve into multihued sparks, a swift rending motion tears a hole in space and perspective itself and they step into tear, exiting a dozen paces away from the leviathan threatening her. As the creature steps into the portal in pursuit, the edges slam together, tearing it apart.

Ranfingle the Lighthearted was stuck in the closet of his most recent love. Cornered by their justifiably angry spouse he lacked pants or weapon to defend himself from the vengeful fellow’s drawn blade. With little choice he drew the Aether Flow into himself. It burned in a familiar and unpleasant fashion and his rude physical flesh tainted it, giving it a thick and grotesque quality. It would spill out of him in a semi-corporeal form and lurch to and fro over his foe, consuming them.

Bannerford hadn’t intended to be a courier, as a youth he thought his arts were destined for far greater things, but had settled into a rather mundane life carrying gifts back and forth for diplomats. It wasn’t until a princess begged to be smuggled out her father’s castle. All of a sudden he found himself carrying her, and her handmaid, and her cat, and even her pony through the castle walls, all while being chased by the guards that he realized just how foolish his younger self had been. Never the less, he could not stop smiling…

A Sojourner is one attuned to ebb and flow of Aether. Some call it the source of magic, Sojourners know it more as a layer of existence separate from Substance. Rocks, air, food, all matter is Substance. The energies bound in the planes are born of substance. Aether is not substance. Despite appearing to most to flow from place to place, as it is not substance it does not actually take up space so traveling through it is instantaneous. Sojourner’s of an academic bent will spend hours each day observing the Aether. A few have come away with the same sense, that moving through it is like backing away from a mirror and watching themselves move ever closer to the glass.

Despite this soporific trivia, it is clear Aether has a fundamental relationship with magic and the Sojourner’s arts. Where spellcasters gather this power for a dizzying array of effects, a Sojourner’s connection is rooted in their capacity to move through it, understand it, and manipulate it. Every Sojourner discovers certain spells, but while no more effective, they are always far more elegant in their execution than those cast by wizards or sorcerers.

Class Table
1. Aethersight, Flow Step, Expertise
2. Defensive Teleport, Tesseract
3. Archetype Feature
4. Feat
5. Impel Foe
6. Archetype Feature
7. Aether Exchange
8. Feat
9. Forge Gate
10. Archetype Feature
11. Baleful Teleport
12. Feat
13. Deep Dive
14. Archetype Feature
15. Evasive Teleport
16. Feat
17. Maze
18. Infinite Steps
19. Feat
20. Hungering Gate

Saves: Dex, Cha
HD: D8
Wpns: Simple
Armor: Light
Skills: Arcana or Nature and two of the following: Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, History, Insight, Nature, Perception, Stealth, Survival

I was a little surprised - thinking of the wizard subclass I had expected intelligence to feature more strongly. Not a bad thing, but a surprise. Dex saves... good on a d8 HD character I guess. Light armour, simple weapons... clearly not a warrior, yet still much better than a wizard in this regard.

Aethersight
Beginning at 1st level you become attuned to the Aether Flow, an omnipresent series of currents of raw magical power that flows around and through everything. This gives you the ability to cast the spells below when you reach the listed levels in this class. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for these spells and determines your spell attack bonus and save DC for other spells or features granted by this class. You have a number of uses of this feature equal to your Wisdom Modifier. Casting a spell of 3rd level or below consumes one use of this feature, casting Truesight consumes two uses.
1. Detect Magic
3. Darkvision
5. See Invisible
11. Truesight

Expertise
At 1st level you gain expertise in one of the following skills. Acrobatics, Athletics, Stealth, or Survival. You can choose another skill from this list at level 10.

Flow Step
At 1st level you have the ability to step into the Aether Flow and exit a short distance away. As an action you can teleport a distance up to 5 feet for each Class level. If you end this teleportation in a space occupied by a creature or solid object, you suffer 1d10 force damage and are ejected to the nearest empty space. You take an additional 1d10 damage for every 10 feet you are moved.
You can enhance this Teleportation in two ways.
- When you teleport as an action, you can expend a use of this feature to take another creature no more than one size larger than yourself with you.
- You can expend a use of this feature to teleport as a bonus action to an empty space within range you can see, when you do, you have advantage on the first attack you make before the end of that turn.

For these enhancements you have a number of uses of this feature equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) and regain all uses when you complete a long rest. Other features granted by this class or your Archetype may provide additional ways to expend uses of this feature.

First level(s) is hard. Trying to get a set of abilities that define the class yet are not overpowered as a dip on a multiclass is very tricky. Geting both in and out of combat features crammed into the early levels is tricky.

Aethersight is interesing. Mostly a divination tool and giving some limited casting here provides some versatility. Not broken as a dip, though 5 castings of detect magic is a lot for 1 level... or it woul be if it were not a ritual. I feel something like scrying could also fit the theme here.

Expertise is a nice ability for low level - defines a role/theme for the character and naturally scales with proficiency. I think it does a good job here, nailing down the feel of the class. Its not arcana or religion or an academic persuit. It may begin as a wizard but this combined with wisdom not int as the casting stat is sending me a message.

Flow step... this seems to be the activity that defines the class at early levels. Easy teleport from such low levels is pretty cool and with no opportunity cost is nce to encourage use.

At level 1, you have no additional way to influence combat. No combat spells, no cantrips, no martial weapons, no sneak attack, fighting style or anything like that. It feels you teleport around... but so what? Still, level 1 is over in a flash. The only thing you have is advantage a few times per long rest.

Defensive Teleport
At 2nd level you can use your Flow Step feature to avoid an attack. Before the attack roll is made you can expend a use of your Flow Step to use your reaction to Teleport up to half the normal distance. If your new location provides cover you gain that bonus to your Armor Class and if this takes you beyond the reach or range of the attack, it misses.

Tesseract
At 2nd level you also learn to create a kind of Aetheric Pool that circulates around you. As an action you can place small and smaller objects into this pool which can hold a total weight of no more than 10 x your Class level pounds. While in your Tesseract the objects have total cover and cannot be perceived without the aid of magic such as See Invisible or Truesight though other divinations such as locate object will detect such an object in your space.
You can remove an object as an action or use your action to cause all your stored items to fall into your space. If you die, anyitems you have stored are lost in the Aether, destined to turn up in locations far distant or even on other planes.

Defensive teleport is a neat defensive feature, though why you are getting close to enemies that want to hurt you is an open queston - you have no abilities that really benefit from being close by and with no reason to invest in dex and no good armour proficiency there is little point in you tanking.

Tesseract seems a bit of a ribbon. Not quite sure what its intended to be used for that pockets couldn't.

Still feeling the lack of proacive abilities to go ou and change the world. Even out of combat it seems to lack the ability to push a campaign forwards in any special way.

Archetype
At 3rd level you discover an uncommon means by which to interact with the Aether Flows. Choose one of the following: Bogman, Trailblazer, Evenflow. Your Archetype grants additional features at levels 6, 10, and 14.

Will Examine later, thouh its worth noting that there are some proactive abilities to help deal with hostile situations here in the subclass.

Feat
At levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19 you can choose a feat

Impel Foe
At 5th level you learn to force creatures you touch into the Aether Flow where they are carried a short distance away. As an action you can force a creature you touch no more than one size larger than yourself to make a Constitution saving throw or be teleported up to half the distance your Flow Step normally allows to an unoccupied space you can see. A creature teleported to a surface that cannot support it, falls.

Impel Foe... at the time other classes get things like extra attack and level 3 spells the Sojurner gets the abiliy to teleport enemies. In the right campagn this might be great, if you can drop people into voids or other hazards but flow step is 5ft per level. Impel Foe is 5ft per 2 levels. If you want to hurt people with faling damage you are going to need a LOT of levels. Telekinetic feat, repelling blast, the shove action... they all seem like they arguably could be better till quite high levels.

Aetheric Exchange
Beginning at 7th level, when you use your Flow Step feature, you can choose to teleport into the space of a willing creature in range as that creature is teleported into the space you left.
At this point I am seeing a lot of teleport, but not a lot of So What. It seems like the class is an ideal class for someone who wans to tag along and watch the rest of the party solve problems but doesn't really want to be part of solving them themselves.

It feels a bit unrewarding.

Getting a payoff for being good at what you do should be built in; for example roges get sneak attack, they can get expertise in stealth and have cunning action to more easily hide. I think the class could use an effect where being teleported lets you do something to impact the world - preferably a combat ability.

Forge Jaunt-Gate
At 9th level you learn to create Jaunt Gates of your own. You learn the Teleportation Circle spell. You can cast this spell once and must complete a long rest before doing so again.
What other classes get as a spell - a minor part of lvelling up, you have to spend a cass feaure on. Sure, its great in a strategic role, but I think D&D isn't the type of game that deals with these activities well.

Baleful Teleport
Beginning at 11th level, when you use your Impel Foe feature, you no longer need to see their destination or choose an unoccupied space. Targets that are teleported into solid objects or structures like the ground or walls suffer 3d10 Force damage and are restrained. A creature occupying the space the target is teleported into must make a dexterity save or also suffer 3d10 Force damage and be Grappled. Success on the dexterity save allows the second creature to be moved to the nearest adjacent space as the original target appears. Any creature restrained or Grappled by this effect can end the condition if a creature uses their actio to make an Athletics or Acrobatics test against your Spell Save DC. After escaping, a creature within an object or structure is ejected to the nearest empty space.

OK. Level 11. Now we get a class specific way to ruin bad guys. Dumping someone into the floor is good, but this is a level 11 class feature. 3d10 force damage and some restraint as an acton is good as a backup ability, but con saves are frequently bad saves to target and the damage is pretty minimal. So at best its 5 times per day and you have no useful attacks or sells to use for backup from the main class.

Aether Dives
At 13th level you can choose to only partially enter the Aether Flow or descend into ever greater depths. You learn the spells Etherealness and Planeshift. You can use this feature to cast one of these spells and target only yourself. You regain the use of this feature when you complete a long rest.

Again we seem to be heavily lowballing the class features. Whils classes like the wizard are geing the spells known and the spell slots to cast spells like this, the Sojurner gets the ability to do this oncce per long rest as a whole class feature.

Evasive Teleport
At 15th level, you may now use your reaction to expend a use of your Flow step feature to teleport whenever you would be damaged. If this movement takes you beyond the reach or range of the damage source or outside its area of effect, you take no damage.
Its a very small pool of resource you are putting a lot of pressure on... for a class that probably doesn't even want to be using this feature anyway.

Aetheric Prison
Beginning at 17th level you can temporarily banish a target into the Aether similar to the manner in which you store small objects. You learn the Maze spell and can cast it once. You regain the use of this feature after a long rest.
OK great... but again a wizard can have this spell and the spell slot and can use the slot for other things and can learn other spells... just seems like a strictly worse feature than wizard got at level 15.

Infinite Steps
At 18th level and beyond, whenever you roll initiative, you regain 2 uses of your Flow Step feature up to your normal maximum.

Given how restrictive the resource pool is, this seems like a huge step... but none of the resources do enouh to justify this bein a major late-game feature.

Hungering Gate
At 20th level your reach cannot exceed your grasp. You learn the Gate spell. While the Gate persists you can use your action to move it up to 20 feet and rotate it up to 180 degrees. If these manipulations would cause the Gate to wholly engulf a creature’s space, it can make a Dexterity saving throw to avoid being sent to the plane of existence on the other side. On a success the target is moved to the nearest adjacent space, on a failure, the target is sent to the other plane. You can use this feature to cast this spell once and regain its use when you complete a long rest.

Same problem again... you get a fun spell, but late and without the flexability other classes do.

Bogman
Unlike other Sojourners who learn to more efficiently manipulate or move amid the Aether, you use your rude flesh to taint it, creating pockets of sluggish morass that slorp to and fro as desctructive goo known as Ectoplasm.

Ectoplasmoid
At 3rd level you learn to draw the Aether into and through yourself, tainting it with your crude matter. You can use your action to expel a mass that has the statistics of a Psychic Gray Ooze. The ooze has hit points equal to 5 times your class level and adds your Proficiency bonus to its attack rolls, damage, and the DC of its Psychic Crush.

The ooze is friendly to you and your allies and follows your mental commands (no action required by you) to the best of its ability. In combat, it shares your initiative taking its turn immediately after yours. When you use your Flow Step feature you can choose to have the ooze teleport instead of yourself.

The ooze continues to exist until reduced to 0 hit points or you use this feature again. You can summon an Ooze in this way once and must complete a short or long rest before doing so again.

Kind of love the flavour... but I could get why some might not. Still, its a combat ability and lets you do something cool that other classes don't. I think this kind of thing is what the class needs more of. Still, the Grey Ooze seems more combat capable than the PC.

Slime Clones
At 6th level you are no longer limited to a grotesque mass of tainted goo, but can cause shimmering duplicates of yourself to appear. Using this ability covers you in a cleaner ectoplasm making you indistinguishable from the duplicates. You can cast Mirror Image as a bonus action. You can use this feature twice and regain both uses when you complete a short or long rest.

In a vacuum, another OK ability... Geting two castings of a level 2 spell at level 6. The ability of the cass to b proactive is so low though, that no sane enemy that has a sense of party capabilities would ever target a sojurner.

Aether Bog
At 10th level you can pollute a wide area with heavy unnavigable Aether. As an Action you can create a 60 ft radius stationary sphere of dense and wretched Aether which remains for 1 hour. Teleportation effects originating from creatures other than you within the sphere fail. Effects originating outside the sphere stop short at the sphere’s edge unless the creature employing them succeeds on a Charisma saving throw vs your Spell DC. This tainted Aether also has a negative impact on magic items. Magic items with one use or that rely on charges may fail to function inside the sphere. Creatures wielding such items can make a Charisma Saving throw against your spell DC as part of their use. A success allows the item to be used normally, a failure prevents the item from taking effect but no charges or uses are wasted.

You can use this feature once and regain its use when you complete a long rest.
Yes! Another cool ability, not found on other classes and a great way to influence a game... once per day. And its a bit niche. A cool ability not not something that fixes the power gulf.

Slime-ulacrum
At 14th level your ectoplasmic doppelgangers need no longer be flimsy images popped with a single blow. As an action you can cast Simulacrum targeting yourself requiring no components. When cast in this way the spell’s duration is 1 minute. You can use this feature once and must complete a long rest before doing so again.
Simulacrum for a minute once per day... it would be useful if you could target somone else.

Trailblazer
As a Trailblazer you focus on the finer arts necessary to swiftly create temporary Jauntways. You’ll create tunnels through the Aether through which other creatures can pass and even learn to slam them shut, even as a foe is still passing through.

Aether Tunnel
At 3rd level when you use your Flow Step feature as an action, instead of teleporting you can punch a hole through the boundary between Substance and Aether creating an entrance up to 5 feet wide to a tunnel of corscating light and consuming darkness that spirals away into the distance. One end of the tunnel appears in a space you can see adjacent to you, and the other entrance matches the size of the first and appears in a space you can see within the range of your Flow Step.

Despite its seeming infinite length, entering and exiting the tunnel requires a total of 5 feet of movement and the tunnel lingers until the end of your turn. Attacks made with Ranged or Reach weapons through the tunnel have disadvantage.

If you expend a use of your Flow Step feature you can extend the duration of this Tunnel to the beginning of your next turn.

Why? What is this for?

Tunnel Bite
At 6th level, when a creature or object enters your Aether Tunnel you can use your reaction to cause it to snap shut. A creature caught in the tunnel this way must succeed on a dexterity saving throw or suffer 3d12 Force damage and be ejected at an end of your choosing. Mundane objects caught in this effect are destroyed. A successful save halves the damage and the target can choose which side they’re ejected to. The damage dealt by this feature increases to 5d12 at 11th level and 6d12 at 17th.
OK, its a nasty trap... but how often are enemies going to see a shimmering portal to who knows where and think its a great place to st
ick their head inside?

Hithering
At 10th level the flexibility of your Aether Tunnels is improved in the following ways.
- Your tunnel entrances can now be up to 15 feet wide.
- When you create a tunnel with entrances of 1 foot in diameter or less, you can attempt sleight of hand checks through the tunnel.
- Attacks through the tunnel with Ranged or Reach weapons at creatures you choose are made with advantage.
Now once per turn you can attack with advantage. Still less good than having extra attack...

Thithering
At 14th level your Aether Tunnels can be rendered extremely stable and highly elastic, increasing their range and their impact on transit. You can cast Arcane Gate without the need for components. For the duration of the spell you can use your action to reposition or reorient either of the gates as you see fit, even attaching them to mobile objects like the face of a shield or back of a painting. As long as both portals remain within 500 feet of each other the spell will persist. You can cast the spell once and must complete a long rest or expend two uses of your Flow Step feature to cast the spell in this way again.
So this is poentially broken. This is the same class of ability as illusionary reality - it will reward creativity but might unwind a campaign in the wrong hands.

Evenflow
You have discovered how to even more efficiently manage the complex Aetheric interactions needed to maintain your Tesseract. This leads to a less potent means of containing foes in the Aether, but you’ll have access to such a power far earlier than peers. Ultimately your Tesseract will become a wondrous

Aetheric Vault
Beginning at 3rd level your Tesseract expands by a significant volume. The maximum weight it can hold is multiplied by 100 and you can store objects of Large size and smaller.

This seems like an ability that is as good as the DM allows it to be. Depending on what you can get away with, this could be quite good.

Invigorating Tesseract
At 6th level your Tesseract can be used to hold living creatures. As an Action you can place a number of willing creatures into the Tesseract equal to your proficiency bonus, including yourself. The Tesseract can hold any number of creatures that do not exceed its total weight limit or size restrictions. The Tesseract has up to 10 minutes of air per Class level divided among all those within. Aether within your Tesseract moves through and around the creatures inside restoring their vital essence. Creatures that complete a short rest within your Tesseract require only 10 minutes to do so. A creature can only benefit from this aspect of the feature once and must complete a long rest before doing so again. Exiting the Tesseract uses the same rules for taking out objects.

A cool, useful ability like the Genie warlock. Great for exploration, bad for everything else as it doesn't seem to offset the class weaknesses at all.

Aethereal Jailer
At 10th level you touch upon a technique every Sojourner eventually masters, but far sooner.
You learn the Banish spell. You can cast this spell a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier, minimum 1. You can target more than one creature when you cast the spell. Each additional target requires you to expend an additional use of the feature. You regain all uses of this feature when you complete a long rest.

Banishment is a good spell but... Geting it once per long rest at level 10 is three levels later than you could get it with another class. Still, multiple castings and it does upcast. The cool thing is that you can outdo other classes in this one regard - casting equivalent of a level 9 banishment at level 10.

Magnificent Museum
At 14th level your Tesseract becomes a massive structure that can store a lifetime’s worth of trophies. You learn the Magnificent Mansion spell and can cast it once. Each time you cast the spell, items in your Tesseract can appear in the mansion arranged as you desire.

Well this is cool. A realy nice place to settle down once you have finished being an adventurer.

All in all this wouldn't be to my tastes. I won't deny it has a lot of useful features for the exploration pilar of the game, but like the ranger if it is good at making those problems disapear there isn't much table time given over to them. Nothing much to help with social and a near total lack of support for combat means probably feeling a bit of a wasted character in a lot of sessons. A lot of features seem to just be worse versions of spellcasting progression with a cripplingly restrictive selection of spells and a great lack of flexability. For an exploration only game its good - but the moment a character decides to start swinging a sword, I worry it will be unrewarding.

And the bookkeeping. Can you imagine what a character sheet would look like with all the different resources to track so many times per different duration of rest...

Its possible you could almost add the spellcasting feature to the class (with an appropriate spell list) and it would still only be slightly overpowered.

I am not seeing the playstyle here. To whom is it supposed to appeal? What party role?

Flavour is great. I can kind of feel the class, but it feels a bit like an NPC class to me. As someone who enjoys teleportaton anre the real arcane feel to it, I do love hat side.. So often homebrew seems too combat focussed with no out of combat support; this seems the opposite.

BerzerkerUnit

2023-09-21, 08:42 PM

I was a little surprised - thinking of the wizard subclass I had expected intelligence to feature more strongly. Not a bad thing, but a surprise. Dex saves... good on a d8 HD character I guess. Light armour, simple weapons... clearly not a warrior, yet still much better than a wizard in this regard.

First level(s) is hard. Trying to get a set of abilities that define the class yet are not overpowered as a dip on a multiclass is very tricky. Geting both in and out of combat features crammed into the early levels is tricky.

Aethersight is interesing. Mostly a divination tool and giving some limited casting here provides some versatility. Not broken as a dip, though 5 castings of detect magic is a lot for 1 level... or it woul be if it were not a ritual. I feel something like scrying could also fit the theme here.

Expertise is a nice ability for low level - defines a role/theme for the character and naturally scales with proficiency. I think it does a good job here, nailing down the feel of the class. Its not arcana or religion or an academic persuit. It may begin as a wizard but this combined with wisdom not int as the casting stat is sending me a message.

Flow step... this seems to be the activity that defines the class at early levels. Easy teleport from such low levels is pretty cool and with no opportunity cost is nce to encourage use.

At level 1, you have no additional way to influence combat. No combat spells, no cantrips, no martial weapons, no sneak attack, fighting style or anything like that. It feels you teleport around... but so what? Still, level 1 is over in a flash. The only thing you have is advantage a few times per long rest.

Defensive teleport is a neat defensive feature, though why you are getting close to enemies that want to hurt you is an open queston - you have no abilities that really benefit from being close by and with no reason to invest in dex and no good armour proficiency there is little point in you tanking.

Tesseract seems a bit of a ribbon. Not quite sure what its intended to be used for that pockets couldn't.

Still feeling the lack of proacive abilities to go ou and change the world. Even out of combat it seems to lack the ability to push a campaign forwards in any special way.

Will Examine later, thouh its worth noting that there are some proactive abilities to help deal with hostile situations here in the subclass.

Impel Foe... at the time other classes get things like extra attack and level 3 spells the Sojurner gets the abiliy to teleport enemies. In the right campagn this might be great, if you can drop people into voids or other hazards but flow step is 5ft per level. Impel Foe is 5ft per 2 levels. If you want to hurt people with faling damage you are going to need a LOT of levels. Telekinetic feat, repelling blast, the shove action... they all seem like they arguably could be better till quite high levels.

At this point I am seeing a lot of teleport, but not a lot of So What. It seems like the class is an ideal class for someone who wans to tag along and watch the rest of the party solve problems but doesn't really want to be part of solving them themselves.

It feels a bit unrewarding.

Getting a payoff for being good at what you do should be built in; for example roges get sneak attack, they can get expertise in stealth and have cunning action to more easily hide. I think the class could use an effect where being teleported lets you do something to impact the world - preferably a combat ability.

What other classes get as a spell - a minor part of lvelling up, you have to spend a cass feaure on. Sure, its great in a strategic role, but I think D&D isn't the type of game that deals with these activities well.

OK. Level 11. Now we get a class specific way to ruin bad guys. Dumping someone into the floor is good, but this is a level 11 class feature. 3d10 force damage and some restraint as an acton is good as a backup ability, but con saves are frequently bad saves to target and the damage is pretty minimal. So at best its 5 times per day and you have no useful attacks or sells to use for backup from the main class.

Again we seem to be heavily lowballing the class features. Whils classes like the wizard are geing the spells known and the spell slots to cast spells like this, the Sojurner gets the ability to do this oncce per long rest as a whole class feature.

Its a very small pool of resource you are putting a lot of pressure on... for a class that probably doesn't even want to be using this feature anyway.

OK great... but again a wizard can have this spell and the spell slot and can use the slot for other things and can learn other spells... just seems like a strictly worse feature than wizard got at level 15.

Given how restrictive the resource pool is, this seems like a huge step... but none of the resources do enouh to justify this bein a major late-game feature.

Same problem again... you get a fun spell, but late and without the flexability other classes do.

Kind of love the flavour... but I could get why some might not. Still, its a combat ability and lets you do something cool that other classes don't. I think this kind of thing is what the class needs more of. Still, the Grey Ooze seems more combat capable than the PC.

In a vacuum, another OK ability... Geting two castings of a level 2 spell at level 6. The ability of the cass to b proactive is so low though, that no sane enemy that has a sense of party capabilities would ever target a sojurner.

Yes! Another cool ability, not found on other classes and a great way to influence a game... once per day. And its a bit niche. A cool ability not not something that fixes the power gulf.

Simulacrum for a minute once per day... it would be useful if you could target somone else.

Why? What is this for?

OK, its a nasty trap... but how often are enemies going to see a shimmering portal to who knows where and think its a great place to st
ick their head inside?

Now once per turn you can attack with advantage. Still less good than having extra attack...

So this is poentially broken. This is the same class of ability as illusionary reality - it will reward creativity but might unwind a campaign in the wrong hands.

This seems like an ability that is as good as the DM allows it to be. Depending on what you can get away with, this could be quite good.

A cool, useful ability like the Genie warlock. Great for exploration, bad for everything else as it doesn't seem to offset the class weaknesses at all.

Banishment is a good spell but... Geting it once per long rest at level 10 is three levels later than you could get it with another class. Still, multiple castings and it does upcast. The cool thing is that you can outdo other classes in this one regard - casting equivalent of a level 9 banishment at level 10.

Well this is cool. A realy nice place to settle down once you have finished being an adventurer.

All in all this wouldn't be to my tastes. I won't deny it has a lot of useful features for the exploration pilar of the game, but like the ranger if it is good at making those problems disapear there isn't much table time given over to them. Nothing much to help with social and a near total lack of support for combat means probably feeling a bit of a wasted character in a lot of sessons. A lot of features seem to just be worse versions of spellcasting progression with a cripplingly restrictive selection of spells and a great lack of flexability. For an exploration only game its good - but the moment a character decides to start swinging a sword, I worry it will be unrewarding.

And the bookkeeping. Can you imagine what a character sheet would look like with all the different resources to track so many times per different duration of rest...

Its possible you could almost add the spellcasting feature to the class (with an appropriate spell list) and it would still only be slightly overpowered.

I am not seeing the playstyle here. To whom is it supposed to appeal? What party role?

Flavour is great. I can kind of feel the class, but it feels a bit like an NPC class to me. As someone who enjoys teleportaton anre the real arcane feel to it, I do love hat side.. So often homebrew seems too combat focussed with no out of combat support; this seems the opposite.

Thank you so much for your feedback!

I don't expect it to have broad appeal, but I think there were some misunderstandings in goals and applications.

First and foremost, this is meant to be a support character. You rightly assess that the rest of the party will be working to take down foes, but seemed to kind of equate that to resolving every issue and effective management (or circumnavigation) of exploration challenges as reducing spotlight. I'm fine with that. I don't find a lot of drama in stories about mudslides or floods. Having a buddy that lets you skip that feels great to me. Being that buddy feels even better.

This Class is intended to operate in healthy tandem with the other classes. Symbiotically if you will. Impel foe seems tragically weak, until you're continuously dropping foes prone back into the puddle of grease, web, or wall of sand, or at the barbarian's feet. And yes, some things like Repelling Blast and the Telekinetic feat will do good work in that regard, but they won't knock the target prone, put it in a tree, etc. There are spells that will a few times a day, but this is all day.

That said, I considered adding ESP and maybe arcane eye to the spell list for that first feature, but those felt like the conjuration specialist class was launching with a heavy dip in Diviniation, so left those off. The ability to sense magic and gradually increases your clarity when doing so felt like enough.

Flow Step
can be used as an action at will and does not require line of sight. That's nearly at-will Dimension Door, a 4th level spell. I viciously reduced the range to compensate for the level difference and at-will aspect. Even at 20th level its range is 1/5th of the spell. The expendable uses to give it some minor combat application (akin to Misty Step) and a major utility one (carry a willing creature). There's also no restriction on using it as an Action or bonus action, so you can do both.

This means from levels 1-4 your default attack is probably a crossbow. You can occasionally grant yourself advantage on attacks at level 1. this is pretty much About half a point of damage behind a Bow fighter's output for levels 1 and 2 (or 1-4 depending on subclass) and better than a Firebolt from 1-4.

Defensive Teleport can be used before any attack roll, not just melee, so it's conceivable you could teleport behind Total Cover rendering the ranged attack meaningless, and at level 3 you will almost always negate a melee attack with 15 feet of distance.

Tesseract holds a lot more than pockets will and holds it all invisibly unless magic is used.

Impel Foe (5) and Baleful Teleport (11) have no limit on uses. While Con saves aren't the best for monster types, they're about par for most humanoids and great for caster foes of every stripe. It may seem weak in many circumstances, but can be save or die depending on terrain and save or suck if you're working with a caster that uses grease or other hazard magic. From level 5-10 There's also no reason you can't Teleport your allies into superior positions, like having the Barbarian mount a flying foe, or putting the rogue in a sniper nest.

The level 7 swap teleport is the level 6 Conjurer wizard feature but at-will. If you haven't played with it, it's amazing. I think some of the confusion would be resolved if I broke out the expendable uses of Flow Step as separate features to track, but I did want the player to wrestle with sacrificing their utility for defensive options.

I agree the 9th level feature is weaker than level 9 for wizards, but multiple castings would be too much.

The level 13+ features are exactly as powerful as those gained by a Wizard of equivalent level that chooses to prepare those spells. Wizards never get more than 1 slot of 7th, 8th, and 9th level, but I delayed the progression slightly, mostly out of respect for the versatility of the core function which

As for subclasses,
Bogman.
- The Pet ooze is pretty beefy.
- Mirror Image as a bonus action twice per short or long rest is a lot of damage mitigation.
- The teleport block is fairly niche regardless of application and the magic item inhibition is unlikely to come up in most games, but it is massive and flavorful.
- Simulacrum is a broken spell, capping it at self and one minute brings it in line, particularly when the dupe can immediately mirror image, create a 70 hp minion that can nuke ACs and be sending targets 35 feet into the wall or ground where they might be out of the fight for multiple rounds altogether.

Trailblazer.
- If you can't see endless possibility with what is a severely nerfed at-will Arcane Gate, I don't know what to tell you. The other players can ready actions to dash through the portal. Out of combat it conserves uses of your Flow Step feature to transport others. In combat it can let the PCs reposition in ways NPCs are not going to be able to deal with, particularly if the party is using hazard spells like Spike Growth, Cloud of Daggers, etc. It is dependent on the party working out ways to optimize its use, but when they do, it's a lynchpin.
- The Tunnel Bite expectation is that enemies frustrated by a party that can seemingly appear out of nowhere and then retreat back through the portal may choose to pursue and get a nasty surprise. If the duration of the portal is extended, the party can drag creatures into it.
- Hithering. applications like sleight of hand have always varied by DM judgment, but if the caster-rogue's popularity is any indication, this should be great. The size of the portal increasing to huge allows for forced movement affecting such creatures to be enhanced significantly, granting your allies advantage on all ranged or reach attacks made at targets at the other end feels pretty good too.
- Thithering is amazing, on that we agree.

Evenflow.
- Keeping a whole trading post worth of stuff in your pants is great. It's intended to be on par with the Genielock for stashing stuff.
- This is like the Genielock but does come 4 levels earlier.
- I had considered giving a nerfed Banish at 6, but I didn't want to deal with "improving it" back to baseline later so I moved it to 10 and allowed the overcasting.
- I can see where you might be confused with magnificent mansion, a lot of people misunderstand its potential, but this is also skewed based on how I run DND.
In my games, long rests away from "civilization" are not guaranteed without a lot of hurdles being cleared. For levels 1-12 the PCs are encouraged to invest in communities, expanding the boundaries of their domain with downtime activities, etc. If they walk around being a pack of buttheads, they might find their rests interrupted with harassment, thieves, or assassins. (they can go the other way, hire goons to protect them, build fortresses etc. But it all comes down to being invested in the world. But if they leave that world, planes hopping, starjamming, whatever, they lose access to that investment and then have to look for safe places. A certain stretch of forest won't be safe enough for a long rest until the giant spider that reigns over it is slain. Caves and bandits, aeries and gryphons etc. This is an assumption of risk and investment of time to find places on the road to long rest.

Magnificent Mansion is the 1 stop ivory tower. You cast that, and there is no need for civilization, it's all the comforts of home you could need for a long rest. So it definitely has an outsized impact in my games which I felt warranted making it a big deal for this class. It should also say cast it once and regain use after a long rest. I did add that text in the PDF version.

Thank you again so much for your feedback!

animorte

2023-10-16, 01:00 PM

Congratulations, Just to Browse on winning Something Borrowed with the Storm Herald (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25836684&postcount=3)!

Ok, so... I got busy for like 2 days last week and somehow thought I had already opened the new submission thread.

I'll have it up tonight after work. Nothing to see here! :smallcool:

Here it is: Teamwork Makes the Dream Work (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?661305-Teamwork-Makes-the-Dream-Work-Submission-Thread-(5e-Base-Class-Contest)&p=25890398#post25890398)

Gnomes2169

2023-10-23, 09:20 AM

https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExc2l2ZTdoZzA2aXN0NGRnNGphcGl0Z20 0eXRleHR0aThhcDl2Z2c4aiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/26wkP6n7c8fQJbhVS/giphy.gif

Edit: Well, got my submission done, but it seems like we don't have many people competing this time... maybe we should do another one of those "End of the year extensions?"

Just to Browse

2024-01-26, 03:13 PM

sengmeng

2024-01-27, 08:31 AM

Over a month has passed and I think everyone has forgotten about this one. We've also had a couple contests with low activity like the card game one where it was just 2 contestants.

Maybe we may want to retire the base class contest for now, and keep on with the subclass contest?

Hmm, that's a fair statement. But personally, I know that I simply don't bother to force out an entry if the theme doesn't really grab me, and like many in the upper Midwest, I go into emotional and nearly literal hibernation once the hours of sunlight drop below 10 per day. So I'd say it might not be time to shelve it, but my suggestion is, if it gets any support, do a completely unthemed, open contest and reevaluate after that.

Old Harry MTX

2024-01-28, 04:26 AM

I also want to remind everyone that it is not mandatory to develop a minimum of 3 subclasses for each class, or even, if the theme is very specific, it is possible not to develop any subclasses at all.

Personally I wouldn't mind also proposing the development of 3.5-style prestige classes with only 10 levels and entry prerequisites that force you to multiclass between 2 standard classes for 3 or 4 levels. Such a different approach could be a nice stimulus.

Just to Browse

2024-01-30, 02:44 PM

Good points. It might also be that I'm over-reacting here. A different contest topic could change how many folks submit.

Personally I wouldn't mind also proposing the development of 3.5-style prestige classes with only 10 levels and entry prerequisites that force you to multiclass between 2 standard classes for 3 or 4 levels. Such a different approach could be a nice stimulus.

That's an interesting idea. I've been eyeing the opposite recently: classes that end at the start of a tier (e.g. level 5 or level 11), so you don't have to sketch out as much. Maybe we can do both of those at once?

How does this sound?
I'll post the usual voting thread with a new topic, etc. Run the next contest as usual, to see if this is a fluke.
If the next contest also sees very little activity, we run a "half-class" contest next, where all classes are 5-15 levels long, allowing both the prestige concept and the half base class.

Old Harry MTX

2024-02-03, 04:10 AM

I'd say it's great, but since I'm overwhelmed by life in this period I'm absolutely not sure if I'll be able to participate, so my opinion matters little. Let's wait to hear what others say.

Just to Browse

2024-02-19, 12:05 AM

After much delay, the new contest voting thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?664600-(open)-Teamwork-Makes-the-Dream-Work-Voting-Thread-(5e-base-class-contest)&p=25966054#post25966054) is now live!

Took some time this weekend to update the contest theme spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lY9DqyVzZ1khvCyCUB7a8vyW61Q7ImKpm81_bSxwl68/edit#gid=0) with all of the base class themes. Some themes don't work across the two contests, so I've added a column to mark eligibility. I just used the spreadsheet to generate the list of new topics for this contest and it was pretty smooth.

Gnomes2169

2024-02-19, 06:31 AM

Well, we only had two entries for this one, and I'm one of them, so... I feel like I should just vote for which theme we should make next. Because voting for yourself (even if it's for second place) is tacky. :smalltongue:

Just to Browse

2024-03-26, 01:39 AM

that last voting thread went belly up lol - I'll try to be more aggro about bumping it

despite not getting any votes on a class, we did get a theme, Monster Mash. We'll see if this one gets any nibbles. I've put up the submission thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?665819-The-Monster-Mash-Submission-Thread-(5e-Base-Class-Contest)&p=25985431#post25985431).

Currently considering one of a few options:
Reboot my jasarker into a class for predators everywhere
Make an ozodrin-style class with mutation powers
Build a Hollyphant monster class for a potential run of Descent into Avernus
Ideas ideas hmmmmm

MrStabby

2024-03-26, 08:48 PM

I keep wanting to do these, but find I run out of time and inspiration part way through - subclasses are easy, there are closer frames of reference against which to judge power. Its the fine tuning that hurts.

Still, I can at least plan.

I will go for the Undying Class. A class focussed on embracing undeath and the forms that come with it. Subclasses pertaining to ghost, lich, mummy and vampire.

Just to Browse

2024-03-27, 10:50 AM

Shoot, that does remind me. We're trying a new rule that allows shorter submissions, since 5e base classes can be a lot of work.

Short Classes: Your base class doesn't need to be a full 20 levels for you to submit it. You can write up a class that only goes up to a monster's CR like monster base classes of old (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?170469-3-5-Improved-Monster-Classes-Still-Alive-and-taking-requests!), a Prestige Class like from the prestige classes from Unearthed Arcana (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Rune_Magic_Prestige_Class.pdf), a class that starts at level 10 like the Mythos classes from Xefas (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?522575-5e-Mythos-General-Rules-Swordbearer-Base-Class), or anything in between. Please include a quick note at the start of your class that describes how it's different. Additional details like suggested multiclasses are also nice.

Also, a worthy reminder - there's no minimum number of subclasses you need to write! Harry's post says it best:

I also want to remind everyone that it is not mandatory to develop a minimum of 3 subclasses for each class, or even, if the theme is very specific, it is possible not to develop any subclasses at all.

If you've got a great idea but filling out the subclasses seems impossible, don't worry about subclasses. Put up whatever feels right for your theme.

Just to Browse

2024-03-29, 02:06 PM

After some initial exploration, I'm going with The Hollyphant. There's already a really detailed Ozodrin (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?424829-Ozodrin-(5E-Conversion-PEACH)) class that I'm not sure I could do justice. In contrast, there's surprisingly little in the way of playable Hollyphant PC material. I found Lulu's Guide to Hollyphants (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/290286/Lulus-Guide-to-Hollyphants?filters=0_0_0_45748_0_0_0_0) which gives advice on making Hollyphants into a race, but it's a little underwhelming.