Cheap ways to reduce a character's weight (but not size?)

[RexDart]

To make a long story short, my 5th level Scout/Ranger acquired a wonderful magic item called a "soardisc," which is a small platform that has Overland Flight as a permanent enchantment. Very, very nice especially since it can be used for 40' Fly movement suitable for skirmishing.

Anyway, it has a 200 lb. weight limit for full-speed use, and most of that is the character. Is there any spell or magic item that reduces a character's weight without changing size (e.g. Reduce Person) or shape (e.g. Polymorph?)

Hoping that if such a thing exists it would be relatively cheap or low level, since it would ordinarily be of limited utility.

[Brackenlord]

The vile feat Deformity (Gaunt) makes you half your normal weight. It has a feat tax but you can get both for free by level 5 if you're godless... and willing to serve a Elder Evil.

[Inevitability]

Ink weighs less than nothing, just give your character as many jugs of it as you can buy

Alternatively, Alter Self into a lighter humanoid race? 82-pound elves are possible according to the DMG. You can even argue to your DM that Alter Self lets you impersonate people who took Willing Deformity (Gaunt), and obviously that means you can take on their lower weight even if you get none of the mechanical benefits. I don't know if there's a printed magic item that lets you Alter Self in one specific form for cheap, but it's worth looking into!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You wouldn't even need to Alter Self into a different race, just a lighter version of yourself. Your other stats wouldn't even change

[Socksy]

Getting turned into a skeletal undead would be a good place to start, although depending on what you're doing with LA and the reasons you don't want to Polymorph might be a bad plan overall. Would that stack with Gaunt, or is that humanoid-only?

I misread the 200lb as 5lb, no idea how.


The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.

Having five hit dice but your hit points remaining the same seems like it could be dangerous at higher level, when Power Word spells begin to come online.

Could Levitate help at all?

[aglondier]

Use a 50 cent eraser to remove your current weight from the character sheet, then use a pencil to write a new, lower weight...it's your character, you can make changes...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Having five hit dice but your hit points remaining the same seems like it could be dangerous at higher level, when Power Word spells begin to come online.Note that the race is 5 or fewer HD, but the spell doesn't affect your class levels, racial HD, or any other HD you may have.

[SangoProduction]

Enhancement sphere: Lighten talent. Makes the target either half weight, weightless, or floating. (Or if you're really large, with low caster level, nothing. But that's unlikely.)
You can obtain it with one feat.

[Firechanter]

As a player I've been bugged by the same problem -- that soardisk is nothing but a Carpet of Flying -- and I find it a bit unfair that one has to worry about it just bc of a deliberate number you put on your character sheet. After all, Medium-sized characters of any race can be well under 200lbs, and there is absolutely no drawback to putting your toon at the lower end of the scale. As a DM, I'd just nix that limitation, at least if the character isn't laden like a pack mule.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

toonWhen did this become Toon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_(role-playing_game))?

[Jervis]

Use multiple cursed items that have the drawback to reduce your height by 1/2 inch each once. Keep doing this until your height becomes a negative value. This means you have no mass and thus no weight. This does not change your size category or stop you from acting normally.

Alternatively you can buy some schemas of suspension and make all your gear effectively weightless.

[ShurikVch]

Slender racial feat (Dragon #324): -10% weight, +1 racial bonus on Disable Device, Escape Artist, Move Silently, and Tumble checks; supposed to be taken at 1st level

Lightweight flaw (Dragon #328): You have half the base weight of a normal character of your race. -4 penalty to resist bull rushes, grapples, overruns, or trip attacks. No attack bonus on charge (but still -2 AC and double damage from weapons set against charges you make)

[RexDart]

As a player I've been bugged by the same problem -- that soardisk is nothing but a Carpet of Flying -- and I find it a bit unfair that one has to worry about it just bc of a deliberate number you put on your character sheet. After all, Medium-sized characters of any race can be well under 200lbs, and there is absolutely no drawback to putting your toon at the lower end of the scale. As a DM, I'd just nix that limitation, at least if the character isn't laden like a pack mule.

Huh, I wonder why nobody noticed that - yes, it is indeed identical to the 5x5 Carpet of Flying, except that it's 2 pounds heavier itself for some reason, and doesn't have the verbiage about spoken commands. We assume it's just controlled by the user shifting around, like a hoverboard or the like. The DM said she'd probably make most people roll easy Balance checks to use it in combat, but my character actually has lots of ranks in Balance (sailor background, where that's actually a vital skill), so she's assumed to have no trouble unless they're in heavy winds or something.

Anyway, I appreciate all the ideas here. It's not really a huge problem, but it got me curious. I defined the character as a bit on the tall and heavy side for a human female at 145, which leaves 55 pounds of "stuff" to work with. Being a Scout she had already been heavily focused on weight reduction (Handy Haversack was her first major purchase.) 55 pounds is workable, but I'm right at the edge of the aerospace engineering weight limit until I can get a Mithral Chain Shirt or the like.

(The funniest thing is that based on logic and, um, personal experience during the pandemic, the character should be gaining weight because she's using the damn disc to get around everywhere instead of walking. No, nobody's trying to enforce that....)

[Telonius]

Personally I'd waive that for a Medium character as well (maybe limit it to a medium character with a heavy load, whatever that ends up being, to prevent silliness). But some groups like that kind of granular detail. Keeping track of weight like that is a lot more of an old-school thing.

[RexDart]

Personally I'd waive that for a Medium character as well (maybe limit it to a medium character with a heavy load, whatever that ends up being, to prevent silliness). But some groups like that kind of granular detail. Keeping track of weight like that is a lot more of an old-school thing.

The Scout class itself, with its various "light load" restrictions, seems to be one of a very small number of throwbacks to that, so I don't mind too much....

[ciopo]

Rod of wonder and hope for that height reduced to 1/12 effect? It would proportionally also reduce the weight, and mechanically it doesn't say your size changes at all, so...

Decide that the intense adventuring life is being good for the compacting of your muscles, and shave down 5lbs "a day" thanjs ti all the leg hours you've put in, until you're at the minimum average for your size&race

The biggest contributor to ewuipment weight is generally armor, source it out to either mage armor/luminous armor

[Barstro]

When did this become Toon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_(role-playing_game))?

At least since City of Heroes.

[Biggus]

There's a Weightless Scabbard (AEG p.138) but it only makes your weapon weightless, and only while it's in it, and it costs 1,600GP, so you're better off just saving up for a type 1 Bag of Holding I think.

[loky1109]

Shadow creature template halfs your weight.

[ShurikVch]

Shadow creature template halfs your weight.
Which version of Shadow Creature?

[Inevitability]

Which version of Shadow Creature?

Lords of Madness at least implies it: there's an advanced cloaker with the shadow template in that book. Regular cloakers are 100 lb and Large size, so one advanced to Huge should be 800 lb instead, but instead it's only 400. The best explanation for the weight difference comes from the template.

[loky1109]

Which version of Shadow Creature?

ToM version if I remember correctly.

[ShurikVch]

ToM version if I remember correctly.
ToM don't have Shadow Creature template - it have Dark Creature
Dark Creature, indeed, makes base creature a bit lighter - but not to 50% weight: Dark Goblin weighs 30-25 lbs. ("common" Goblin (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/goblin.htm) - 40-45), Dark Umber Hulk - 600 lbs. ("common" Umber Hulk - 800)

[Firechanter]

Huh, I wonder why nobody noticed that - yes, it is indeed identical to the 5x5 Carpet of Flying, except that it's 2 pounds heavier itself for some reason, and doesn't have the verbiage about spoken commands. We assume it's just controlled by the user shifting around, like a hoverboard or the like.

Yeah, the Carpet as written is a weird item, as the details are so unclear. Spoken commands -- does that mean it behaves like a mount, allowing you to take full-round actions while moving? Or does controlling it need a move action? Can you take 5-foot steps with it? What about melee combat, where you're normally assumed to be dancing back and forth a bit within your respective 5' squares? It's a bit of a headache.

Anyway, thanks for sharing that idea. Just recently I gave one of the PCs a flying carpet bc she was the only one in the party who couldn't fly out of her own power. Oddly, she didn't seem to be thrilled. So yesterday I asked her if she'd prefer to have a hoverboard or "soardisk" and she loved it. So we're retconning that bit. ^^ It's a good fit too bc they found the item in a derelict sky-city, and the overall steampunky atmosphere of the ruins really make a hoverboard a much better fit than a flying carpet.

Also, this resolves the headache about controlling it -- it's controlled with your body motions, so movement action economy works exactly as normal. ^^ BTW we play PF1, so there's a Fly skill, though I don't really call for it a lot as a GM.


(The funniest thing is that based on logic and, um, personal experience during the pandemic, the character should be gaining weight because she's using the damn disc to get around everywhere instead of walking. No, nobody's trying to enforce that....)

"Roll your way to childhood obesity" (Chandler on inline skates) :smallbiggrin:

[ciopo]

epic usages of the disguise skill let you change your "apparent weight"

[RexDart]

Yeah, the Carpet as written is a weird item, as the details are so unclear. Spoken commands -- does that mean it behaves like a mount, allowing you to take full-round actions while moving? Or does controlling it need a move action? Can you take 5-foot steps with it? What about melee combat, where you're normally assumed to be dancing back and forth a bit within your respective 5' squares? It's a bit of a headache.

Anyway, thanks for sharing that idea. Just recently I gave one of the PCs a flying carpet bc she was the only one in the party who couldn't fly out of her own power. Oddly, she didn't seem to be thrilled. So yesterday I asked her if she'd prefer to have a hoverboard or "soardisk" and she loved it. So we're retconning that bit. ^^ It's a good fit too bc they found the item in a derelict sky-city, and the overall steampunky atmosphere of the ruins really make a hoverboard a much better fit than a flying carpet.

Also, this resolves the headache about controlling it -- it's controlled with your body motions, so movement action economy works exactly as normal. ^^ BTW we play PF1, so there's a Fly skill, though I don't really call for it a lot as a GM.


An additional bit of serendipity is that the soardisc is described as a circular disc made of driftwood. Weeks earlier, I made a HeroForge miniature for my character... standing on a circular driftwood base. It was so perfect for my character that I suspected the DM had purposely snuck it in to the dungeon, but everything was simply as written in a commercial module. (Its original owner used it with the Flyby Attack feat, which made for an interesting challenge. My DM ruled that I could take that feat as well after a while, even though by RAW it shouldn't have been available to either the NPC or PC.)

[RexDart]

At least since City of Heroes.

Before that, because I was playing City of Heroes from the start, and the usage came in from some other MMO player base. I was among those who opposed its use in place of "character."

[ShurikVch]

Since Dark Creature template actually reduces your weight, you can get it via Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (Tome of Magic) - 10,800 gp for 10 minutes/day, or 22,000 gp for continuous

[Firechanter]

When did this become Toon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_(role-playing_game))?

Oh, I missed that question.
idk, all I can say is that I first heard/read "toon" referring to RPG characters was around 2005. It was either when I played NWN on a PW server, or on the Conan D20 message boards. I assumed it was common usage in English (which is not my 1st language) and I've used it on and off since. ^^

[Particle_Man]

Attach some small hot air balloons to you or the soardisc?

[ShurikVch]

Lords of Madness at least implies it: there's an advanced cloaker with the shadow template in that book. Regular cloakers are 100 lb and Large size, so one advanced to Huge should be 800 lb instead, but instead it's only 400. The best explanation for the weight difference comes from the template.
Do you mean +1 size is X8 weight?
But it not always works like that:
Barghest (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/barghest.htm) (Medium) is 180 pounds; Greater Barghest (Large) - 400 pounds
Stone Golem (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#stoneGolem) (Large) is 2,000 pounds; Greater Stone Golem (Huge) - 32,000 pounds

[Inevitability]

Do you mean +1 size is X8 weight?
But it not always works like that:
Barghest (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/barghest.htm) (Medium) is 180 pounds; Greater Barghest (Large) - 400 pounds
Stone Golem (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#stoneGolem) (Large) is 2,000 pounds; Greater Stone Golem (Huge) - 32,000 pounds

The default (which I think we agree on) is that each size increase is x8 weight, as implied by Enlarge Person spells and size rules (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat).

For the greater barghest, I'd argue that some kind of supernatural transformation has taken place, and we can no longer assume that it's the basic barghest's body plan but upscaled. The greater stone golem is a bit weirder, as it's explicitly said to 'resemble a typical stone golem in all respects' and I admit that I have no idea what's going on there: perhaps it's someone not thinking the rules through, or perhaps in a rare display of defiance to the square-cube law the golem's interior must consist of denser material to retain integrity as it's scaled up.

That said, my point is that with the cloaker there's no clear explanation for why its weight is only 400 lb, outside of the Shadow template. Just because some monsters seem to defy the default rules for weight and size doesn't mean that all of them will by default do so, or that arbitrary breaks from this pattern are the most likely explanation when we have a potential reason right there.

[ShurikVch]

The default (which I think we agree on) is that each size increase is x8 weight, as implied by Enlarge Person spells and size rules (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat).

For the greater barghest, I'd argue that some kind of supernatural transformation has taken place, and we can no longer assume that it's the basic barghest's body plan but upscaled. The greater stone golem is a bit weirder, as it's explicitly said to 'resemble a typical stone golem in all respects' and I admit that I have no idea what's going on there: perhaps it's someone not thinking the rules through, or perhaps in a rare display of defiance to the square-cube law the golem's interior must consist of denser material to retain integrity as it's scaled up.

That said, my point is that with the cloaker there's no clear explanation for why its weight is only 400 lb, outside of the Shadow template. Just because some monsters seem to defy the default rules for weight and size doesn't mean that all of them will by default do so, or that arbitrary breaks from this pattern are the most likely explanation when we have a potential reason right there.
The X8 increase is less common than you may expect (heck, even Giant Size spell doesn't specify your weight change)
From the Monster Manual III:
Cadaver Collector (Large) - 4000 pounds; Greater Cadaver Collector (Huge) - 15 tons
Shadesteel Golem (Medium) - 1500 pounds; Greater Shadesteel Golem (Large) - 4000 pounds
Siege Crab (Gargantuan) - 30 tons; Greater Siege Crab (Colossal) - 130 tons
Ssvaklor (Medium) - 120 pounds; Greater Ssvaklor (Large) - 400 pounds

Or let's look in the different books
Dusk Giant (Heroes of Horror): Least (Medium) - 300-400 pounds; Lesser (Large) - 600 pounds; Greater (Huge) - 4000-12000 pounds
Kruthik (Miniatures Handbook): Hatchling (Small) - 30 pounds; Adult (Medium) - 250 pounds; Greater (Large) - 2000 pounds

As you can see, the "X8 weight" isn't that safe of presumption - while some creatures, indeed, stick to it (more or less) - like Cadaver Collector or Kruthik - others are very far from those numbers: say, Lesser Dusk Giant should be heavier than Greater Dusk Giant would ever got...

[loky1109]

ToM don't have Shadow Creature template - it have Dark Creature

My mistake. I was AFK in that moment, of course it's Dark creature.

[Sirperry]

Cut off all those pesky limbs. You'll also save all that time you used to spend trimming your nails!

Seriously though, character weight is fluff, change it if you want. Heck, reduce it gradually if that makes you feel better and say you went on a diet.

[GreatWyrmGold]

You wouldn't even need to Alter Self into a different race, just a lighter version of yourself.
Why diet when you can get the same effect from a 2nd-level spell?




Having five hit dice but your hit points remaining the same seems like it could be dangerous at higher level, when Power Word spells begin to come online.

Even if the spell affected your effective HD, power word spells are A. rare and B. have effects based on HP, not HD.



There's a Weightless Scabbard (AEG p.138) but it only makes your weapon weightless, and only while it's in it, and it costs 1,600GP.
...I get why that would be comfortable for the character using it, but why would a player ever want to spend 1,600 gold on that?



Do you mean +1 size is X8 weight?
But it not always works like that:
Barghest (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/barghest.htm) (Medium) is 180 pounds; Greater Barghest (Large) - 400 pounds
Stone Golem (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#stoneGolem) (Large) is 2,000 pounds; Greater Stone Golem (Huge) - 32,000 pounds
To me, it makes sense that advanced creatures wouldn't octuple in weight. Presumably, most creatures that can grow to a larger size category are near the top of their size category, and grow into the bottom of their new size category.

And then there's the stone golem. I'm pretty sure someone just fumbled a *2^4 where they should have typed 2^3 and didn't think twice about it.

[MornShine]

Have you heard the good word of a Permanent Mark of Buoyancy (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mark-of-buoyancy/)?

[Beni-Kujaku]

The default (which I think we agree on) is that each size increase is x8 weight, as implied by Enlarge Person spells and size rules (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat).

That is the case when exactly doubling in size. But going up a size category doesn't always mean doubling. Goliath's Mountain Rage says you only gain one foot of height, but you still become large. If the Barghest is 6ft long for 180lbs, and it gains 2ft when becoming Greater, than means it is 8ft long (pretty firmly in Large category), and its weight increases as 180*(8/6)^3~180*2.3~420 lbs, which fits the given figure.

A stone golem is 9ft tall and a greater stone golem is 18ft tall, but the greater one might be slightly more massive, say, 40% wider, which would explain the *16 instead of *8.

[Jack_Simth]

Have you heard the good word of a Permanent Mark of Buoyancy (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mark-of-buoyancy/)?

Oh. Floatstone. Get enough of them at sufficient caster level, and you can make a flying ship. Well, the equivalent of a hot air baloon, anyway. You'll need more to make it behave as a blimp.