Lazarock
2022-09-22, 02:32 AM
Hello, it's me again.
Do you remember me ? I came a week ago asking for advices for a ranged build running on soulknife in a mid-optimized campaign, Oh, silly me
For reminder :
I'm making a new character in 3.5 in a campaign where we can't make PC with a class from Tiers 1 & 2 (2019 edition). Tier 3 are heavily suggested, Tiers 5 and after get a little buff.
Ability array : 8,10,12,12,14,18
We're all starting at level 5. 10k gold.
Out of the 4 PC of our campaign, 2 of them are melee characters, the third one will be making a ranger. One of the melee characters is a good optimizer, the second one a bit less but they're like Chip & Dale so no doubt they will complement well. The ranger is new to D&D 3.5, but still looking to be useful.
And here I am !
I'm bad at optimizing characters, always playing the same 4 class (Binder, Dragonfire adept, Dragon shaman, Dread Necromancer), and this time our DM said to us "this campaign will be deadly, you'll have to twist rules a bit". (I don't want to talk about this statement, I already said what I think of it to our DM)
Let's go back to my character :
Combat oriented, I'd like to be a blaster/debuffer (emphasize on the last one), we'll have our charger/buffer (crusader), our main martial DPS (warblade), our main magical DPS (our ranger is going to make an elemental one, ngl I don't know how viable it is) and... me.
So hey, I was looking at the tier list and saw this one, the "warlock". It catches my eye and I took a liking to its versality.
But when it comes to out of combat roles, there isn't so much room left for me, the "face" will be taken by our Crusader, the "scout" will be taken by our Ranger. So I'm looking for a "skillmonkey" and guess what ? Warlock aren't fit for it.
Yay !
I like challenges.
I read I think about every handbook written for Warlock, saw some nice build (stormsinger warlock looked fun but doesn't seem to be debuff oriented), and thought of this one :
Human, no flaw allowed
Bard 1 / Warlock 4
Planning to go Stormsinger at 6 and so on.
BUT
While stormsinger is very thematic (and fun, I admit I'll play it in another campaign, nothing is wasted) and I love it, i'll have to wait until level 10 to be able to gain any bonus from the Storm Magic feat (+1 CL when on a storm), which is a prerequisite for the PrC. A bit sad, knowing that campaign will end at ECL 12. And there is also a huge skill prerequisite that makes me shiver.
What will I get between 6 et 10 ?
If I spend 4000g at creation, I could take a cask of cold to get +2 to CL and to perform checks starting at ECL 7, but how can I justify it ? At ECL 5, I would only be a warlock/bard, no real need to take this magic item.
But beside it... I can make wind making my ranger friend at disavantage at ECL 6 ; thunderstrike is NEAT, but doesn't help debuff (ECL 8) ; electricity resistance, so situational that there is nothing to write about (ECL 9).
Sure, I get some skills, but if I'm just a dead weight with the party when fights kick in... meh.
--------------------------------------------
It's been like, 4 days since I started thinking about what to play.
First title was "making a warlock [...]", then "making a warlock/debuffer [...]" and then the one you can see there.
I tried to make things works with warlock, but I feel like I'll be redundant with my mates. I mean, with 2 melee fighter, adding a glaivelock ? What's the point of it ? Sure I could apply debuff to eldritch glaive, but that's it. Adding a clawlock ? Even worse.
Playing a pure rangelock ? I can't make it combat-viable. I tried, I swear, but when I hit 6th level, I feel like warlock loose steam for 4-5 levels.
That's a bit sad because, this is where most of our campaign will take place.
I could take a level of binder and get out of here ASAP to take Hellfire PrC, but it would be only focusing on damaging people... And I love versality and out of combat usefulness.
Where I am, now, is at some cross-road : I could either jump out the warlock-train, or push a bit more with a somehow bastard warlock/heartfire fanner for out of combat usefulness (a dip in bard helps), or jumping on another train (like a binder, because I know how it works and it could fill any hole in the party ; or something like that).
I'd really like to play a debuffer, but online handbook nearly always point toward sorcerer/wizard for caster build, which are banned in my case.
Here are some builds I made, which I think could help me achieve what I want to do :
The " Sher'Lock "
Warlock 5 into Urban Savant
I need to talk to my DM to twist rules a bit, making it a more flexible PrC, but could add to the party by being the skillmonkey.
Also add a familiar that could help in combat while I shot fire from backline.
The "I'll-make-it-looks-like-I-didn't-know-what-my-mates-will-do"
Glaivelock 5 then Escalation mage
I'm now a melee warlock and when I hit you you better have a good saves.
Still need to lose one turn to move close to enemies, I can already hear them :
"Say the phrase, Warlock !"
*Sigh* Fine. I launch an Eldritch Blast.
"Yeaaaaaah".
Could make a dip in warmage or warblade, for fluff and manoeuvers.
The "B4 Fill & Fix" :
Human Binder 4/Bard 1 into chameleon, giving access to fear spells and versatility to the extreme."You wanted it ? Now you got it"
Could be fun, but I don't feel like I'll love this character. It give me a "jack of all trade, master of none" feeling.
The "Bind me more" :
Cheesy Kobold Binder 5 to the extreme.
Versatile and comfy, good base for an everyday build. Maxing "face" role, using vestiges to take a bit of "scout" role (crow vision, find magical traps), our archer will take the other part.
Allow me to take two path : full caster (via ur-priest, anima mage...) or go help melee with KoSS and aura of despair. Dandalion could also open Scion of Dandalion PrC, a bit like an exhibitionist, but can scare friends more than foes.
"Edgar A.P., the Bard"
Bard 4 / Dread Witch X
Do you see this nasty fear-immune ? There will be none soon enough. Now listen to my voice, my deep voice.
Buffer/debuffer slot, needs to make a thematic storyline and appropriate spell selection.
Could be completed with a nightmare spinner or dirgesinger later on.
What I want to do is scare the **** out of the ennemy, but still having knowledge skills to back me up.
The "**** this, I'm out"
Last one, because I'm tired of making circles with myself. I know what I want to play, but don't know how to do it well.
Warlock 2 / Binder 2 / Duskblade 1
Get on board the Ur-Priest rollercoaster !
After 2 levels, I take Eldritch Disciple and Wow ! I'm now far past the border of what is logically banned from our DM... but not RAW.
I have no doubt he should never allow it, but hey, who knows.
TL;DR :
I want to play a debuffer in a group of 2 melee characters (a warblade and a crusader) and 1 ranged character (ranger), in a deadly campaign.
I'm bad at optimizing and am running in circle with concepts, but I read a lot of things and am open to everything, as long as I can see some fun in it.
I'm not bound to any race or class, but still banned from using some (Tiers 1 & 2).
No PrC limitation - it's free real estate !
Everything 3.5 related and somehow official allowed (so Dragon Magazine are OK)
Bloodlines allowed, but can be nerfed if too powerful
Archetypes not allowed by default... but if I do it well, DM could allow it
No "exotic" race, like monstruous rockbeetle, mantis or so
Do you have some insight, or perhaps better builds to share ? Or more complete ones ?
Do you remember me ? I came a week ago asking for advices for a ranged build running on soulknife in a mid-optimized campaign, Oh, silly me
For reminder :
I'm making a new character in 3.5 in a campaign where we can't make PC with a class from Tiers 1 & 2 (2019 edition). Tier 3 are heavily suggested, Tiers 5 and after get a little buff.
Ability array : 8,10,12,12,14,18
We're all starting at level 5. 10k gold.
Out of the 4 PC of our campaign, 2 of them are melee characters, the third one will be making a ranger. One of the melee characters is a good optimizer, the second one a bit less but they're like Chip & Dale so no doubt they will complement well. The ranger is new to D&D 3.5, but still looking to be useful.
And here I am !
I'm bad at optimizing characters, always playing the same 4 class (Binder, Dragonfire adept, Dragon shaman, Dread Necromancer), and this time our DM said to us "this campaign will be deadly, you'll have to twist rules a bit". (I don't want to talk about this statement, I already said what I think of it to our DM)
Let's go back to my character :
Combat oriented, I'd like to be a blaster/debuffer (emphasize on the last one), we'll have our charger/buffer (crusader), our main martial DPS (warblade), our main magical DPS (our ranger is going to make an elemental one, ngl I don't know how viable it is) and... me.
So hey, I was looking at the tier list and saw this one, the "warlock". It catches my eye and I took a liking to its versality.
But when it comes to out of combat roles, there isn't so much room left for me, the "face" will be taken by our Crusader, the "scout" will be taken by our Ranger. So I'm looking for a "skillmonkey" and guess what ? Warlock aren't fit for it.
Yay !
I like challenges.
I read I think about every handbook written for Warlock, saw some nice build (stormsinger warlock looked fun but doesn't seem to be debuff oriented), and thought of this one :
Human, no flaw allowed
Bard 1 / Warlock 4
Planning to go Stormsinger at 6 and so on.
BUT
While stormsinger is very thematic (and fun, I admit I'll play it in another campaign, nothing is wasted) and I love it, i'll have to wait until level 10 to be able to gain any bonus from the Storm Magic feat (+1 CL when on a storm), which is a prerequisite for the PrC. A bit sad, knowing that campaign will end at ECL 12. And there is also a huge skill prerequisite that makes me shiver.
What will I get between 6 et 10 ?
If I spend 4000g at creation, I could take a cask of cold to get +2 to CL and to perform checks starting at ECL 7, but how can I justify it ? At ECL 5, I would only be a warlock/bard, no real need to take this magic item.
But beside it... I can make wind making my ranger friend at disavantage at ECL 6 ; thunderstrike is NEAT, but doesn't help debuff (ECL 8) ; electricity resistance, so situational that there is nothing to write about (ECL 9).
Sure, I get some skills, but if I'm just a dead weight with the party when fights kick in... meh.
--------------------------------------------
It's been like, 4 days since I started thinking about what to play.
First title was "making a warlock [...]", then "making a warlock/debuffer [...]" and then the one you can see there.
I tried to make things works with warlock, but I feel like I'll be redundant with my mates. I mean, with 2 melee fighter, adding a glaivelock ? What's the point of it ? Sure I could apply debuff to eldritch glaive, but that's it. Adding a clawlock ? Even worse.
Playing a pure rangelock ? I can't make it combat-viable. I tried, I swear, but when I hit 6th level, I feel like warlock loose steam for 4-5 levels.
That's a bit sad because, this is where most of our campaign will take place.
I could take a level of binder and get out of here ASAP to take Hellfire PrC, but it would be only focusing on damaging people... And I love versality and out of combat usefulness.
Where I am, now, is at some cross-road : I could either jump out the warlock-train, or push a bit more with a somehow bastard warlock/heartfire fanner for out of combat usefulness (a dip in bard helps), or jumping on another train (like a binder, because I know how it works and it could fill any hole in the party ; or something like that).
I'd really like to play a debuffer, but online handbook nearly always point toward sorcerer/wizard for caster build, which are banned in my case.
Here are some builds I made, which I think could help me achieve what I want to do :
The " Sher'Lock "
Warlock 5 into Urban Savant
I need to talk to my DM to twist rules a bit, making it a more flexible PrC, but could add to the party by being the skillmonkey.
Also add a familiar that could help in combat while I shot fire from backline.
The "I'll-make-it-looks-like-I-didn't-know-what-my-mates-will-do"
Glaivelock 5 then Escalation mage
I'm now a melee warlock and when I hit you you better have a good saves.
Still need to lose one turn to move close to enemies, I can already hear them :
"Say the phrase, Warlock !"
*Sigh* Fine. I launch an Eldritch Blast.
"Yeaaaaaah".
Could make a dip in warmage or warblade, for fluff and manoeuvers.
The "B4 Fill & Fix" :
Human Binder 4/Bard 1 into chameleon, giving access to fear spells and versatility to the extreme."You wanted it ? Now you got it"
Could be fun, but I don't feel like I'll love this character. It give me a "jack of all trade, master of none" feeling.
The "Bind me more" :
Cheesy Kobold Binder 5 to the extreme.
Versatile and comfy, good base for an everyday build. Maxing "face" role, using vestiges to take a bit of "scout" role (crow vision, find magical traps), our archer will take the other part.
Allow me to take two path : full caster (via ur-priest, anima mage...) or go help melee with KoSS and aura of despair. Dandalion could also open Scion of Dandalion PrC, a bit like an exhibitionist, but can scare friends more than foes.
"Edgar A.P., the Bard"
Bard 4 / Dread Witch X
Do you see this nasty fear-immune ? There will be none soon enough. Now listen to my voice, my deep voice.
Buffer/debuffer slot, needs to make a thematic storyline and appropriate spell selection.
Could be completed with a nightmare spinner or dirgesinger later on.
What I want to do is scare the **** out of the ennemy, but still having knowledge skills to back me up.
The "**** this, I'm out"
Last one, because I'm tired of making circles with myself. I know what I want to play, but don't know how to do it well.
Warlock 2 / Binder 2 / Duskblade 1
Get on board the Ur-Priest rollercoaster !
After 2 levels, I take Eldritch Disciple and Wow ! I'm now far past the border of what is logically banned from our DM... but not RAW.
I have no doubt he should never allow it, but hey, who knows.
TL;DR :
I want to play a debuffer in a group of 2 melee characters (a warblade and a crusader) and 1 ranged character (ranger), in a deadly campaign.
I'm bad at optimizing and am running in circle with concepts, but I read a lot of things and am open to everything, as long as I can see some fun in it.
I'm not bound to any race or class, but still banned from using some (Tiers 1 & 2).
No PrC limitation - it's free real estate !
Everything 3.5 related and somehow official allowed (so Dragon Magazine are OK)
Bloodlines allowed, but can be nerfed if too powerful
Archetypes not allowed by default... but if I do it well, DM could allow it
No "exotic" race, like monstruous rockbeetle, mantis or so
Do you have some insight, or perhaps better builds to share ? Or more complete ones ?