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Venatius
2007-11-29, 11:06 PM
Warshaper. Know it. Love it. Complete Warrior, page 89. The problem is, in my course of figuring out how to play one, I've hit a stumbling block. Specifically, the question that comes up for me is how one determines damage die types for a natural weapon. The problem that arises is that natural weapon damage dice don't appear to be in any way standardized. Between creatures of the exact same size, what damage die a natural weapon gets seems to be completely arbitrary. For instance, crocodiles, hound archons, baboons, and black bears are all medium creatures. But the first two get 1d8 for their bite attacks, and the latter get 1d6. Similar discrepancies for other natural weapon types and in other size categories arise elsewhere. In the Warshaper description, in fact, it states that an Ettin (as a Large giant) could gain a 1d6 claw attack or a 1d8 gore attack from the Warshaper class. But where do these values of 1d6 and 1d8 come from? If anyone could shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it.

triforcel
2007-11-29, 11:18 PM
There's a table at the bottom of page 296 of the Monster Manual that has them listed. If there's a discrepancy between monsters of the same size, check to see if one of them has Improved Natural Attack as a feat.

Venatius
2007-11-29, 11:22 PM
Hmm. It seems you should be right, but Mr. Crocodile has a 1d8 bite attack despite not having Improved Natural Weapon. I guess I'll just cough politely, disregard such inconsistencies, and go by the chart. Chalk it up to something in need of an errata or something.

brian c
2007-11-29, 11:36 PM
Hmm. It seems you should be right, but Mr. Crocodile has a 1d8 bite attack despite not having Improved Natural Weapon. I guess I'll just cough politely, disregard such inconsistencies, and go by the chart. Chalk it up to something in need of an errata or something.

Some of them, just pretend that they have Improved Natural Attack (or a flaw, Crappy Natural Attack). The guidelines are just that, guidelines and they're generally the same as the results.

Venatius
2007-11-29, 11:39 PM
Some of them, just pretend that they have Improved Natural Attack (or a flaw, Crappy Natural Attack). The guidelines are just that, guidelines and they're generally the same as the results.

I really want to see Crappy Natural Attack as a feat now, and I'm not sure why.
Ahh, now if only there was a way to get more than just one natural weapon out of the Warshaper. Darn it, I want my tentacles and lobster pincers on a deer! Ah well, can't win 'em all.