PDA

View Full Version : The Icicle of Doom! (Portable Hole Shape Water Shenanigans)



Kenny_Snoggins
2022-09-26, 10:20 AM
Wondering if this is RAW, and what the damage would be.

Obtain a decanter of endless water (usually pretty easy) and a portable hole (significantly harder). Fill entire portable hole with sand or whatever aggregate. Assuming sand here because it's easy, would also work with masonry, random rocks, whatever. I think the cubic volume of the hole is about 1100ft3. Sand is about 150lb/ft3. Assuming 20% porosity in the sand, lets call it 132,000 pounds of sand. Fill in the porosity with your decanter of endless water. Shouldn't take too long. Wizard or whoever now casts shape water enough times to freeze the surface area of the slurry mixture with ice. The cylinder would have a surface area of around 600 ft2. Only 20% of that surface area is actually water though based on our porosity assumption, so 120ft2. To freeze a foot thick all the pore water on the edges would take about 24 casts of shape water, or about 2.5 minutes continous casting for a single caster. Total weight of the mix now is around 145,000 pounds, give or take. You've laid the portable hole down before filling it on a sheet of some inconspicous looking material, which can be easily disguised with illusion cantrips.

Enter combat. Let's say you have a 20' ceiling wherever you are fighting, not too high, not too short, probably pretty normal. Wizard and Bard hold action for 'Enlarge Reduce' with the trigger being when the iceblock falls out the hole. A flying ally or summon or pet or whatever/ someone with a broom of flying / spider climbing rogue / whoever gets access to the roof and opens the rolled up sheet, portable hole side down, directly over the BBEG. If you were outside and had a find greater steed mount or whatever you could do this up to 100' high although I wouldn't go above that since it might take a round extra to hit him and he could get away. But let's assume that is the case, since it's the most dramatic still likely situation.

Block slides out of the hole directly overhead the enemy and begins to fall. Held actions trigger. Block increases from size large and 145,000 lb to size huge and 1,160,00 pounds, then on the second proc of held actions to size gargauntan and 9,280,000 pounds. After falling 95' the block hits the target with an appx impact force of 1,362,128 kJ. The block is now so large (24 feet diameter or so, 30' high) that I don't think a dex save would be called for as there is no possible place for the target to move to with it's reaction that will avoid being crushed, and it can only avoid damage if it has a reaction teleport or contingency wall of force or something.

Would that work? And what is the HP damage of a 1.3 million kJ impact onto the top of a BBEG's head?

KorvinStarmast
2022-09-26, 10:45 AM
You can only have two instances of that freezy-shape water aspect active at once.

If you cast this spell multiple times, you can have no more than two of its non instantaneous effects active at a time... So I don't think this works.

DarknessEternal
2022-09-26, 10:51 AM
4d10 damage, DC 15 Dex save for half.

These rules are in the DMG.

JackPhoenix
2022-09-26, 10:58 AM
You can have 2 non-instantaneous instances of Shape Water at the same time. If you need to freeze something 24 times, you'll need 12 casters. You also need to see the water you're targetting, which means no, you can't freeze anything but the water around the opening, meaning the water deeper in the hole will remain liquid, assuming your wet sand even counts as water in the first place for the purpse of the spell.

Why do you assume anything in the hole will fall out? The inside of the hole is not on the same plane, and nothing suggest its content is a subject to gravity of the plane the hole opens up to. Creatures inside have to climb out on their own, with no regards given to the opening's orientation.

No, you can't use it outside. The hole needs to be set on a solid surface, those tend to be rare mid-air.

You can't cast the same spell... Enlarge/Reduce included... on the same object twice. There's also the issue of what counts as a single object, but let's not go there.

kJ is a meaningless unit in D&D, and damage is pretty arbitrary. The result would be something between 1d6/20' of falling distance (per falling onto other creature rules, though those are specific to falling creatures, objects may differ) and 10d10 (which is given an example of "crushed by compacting walls" in the improvising damage rules, and the block itself wouldn't be anywhere near "being hit by a crashing flying fortress", which is 18d10).

That all being said, thank you for your service in fighting the catgirl menace.

KorvinStarmast
2022-09-26, 11:11 AM
You can have 3 non-instantaneous instances of Shape Water at the same time. ... snip the nice post...

That all being said, thank you for your service in fighting the catgirl menace. Jack, did I miss an errata? I found "2" as the limit. But that is the roll20 version of Xanathar's, if it's 3 that would be good to know.

JackPhoenix
2022-09-26, 11:13 AM
Jack, did I miss an errata? I found "2" as the limit. But that is the roll20 version of Xanathar's, if it's 3 that would be good to know.

Nah, it's a mistake on my part. Thanks for catching it! Fixed

Burley
2022-09-26, 12:20 PM
You could also have your Wizard cast Ice Knife at 2nd level for a similar effect (piercing damage with a small area of cold damage), without having to use physics calculations, which, if I were the DM, I would deny as soon as you tried showing your math.

Games aren't fun when they become homework.

KorvinStarmast
2022-09-26, 01:41 PM
Nah, it's a mistake on my part. Thanks for catching it! Fixed A pleasure to serve, good sir! :smallsmile:

Chronos
2022-09-26, 03:56 PM
The Decanter of Endless Water and the Shape Water spell are irrelevant to this combo. Basically, all you're asking about is "Put a big heavy solid object in a portable hole, and then dump it out on someone". You could make a big heavy object out of sand and ice, but you could also just carve a cylinder of solid stone for the same effect.