One D&D - Spell List Analysis (Gains and Losses By Class)

[Psyren]

EDIT: Now that the Expert Classes UA is out, Bard gained a great deal fewer spells than originally thought, I've made those updates below.

As everyone likely knows by now from the Character Origins UA (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/one-dnd/character-origins), One D&D is planning to standardize spell lists down to three main ones - Arcane, Divine, and Primal. Each casting class will then align to one of these lists, and possibly also gain a selection of spells from the other lists. The first UA contained all PHB spells from only Cantrips to 1st level.

Based on the list each of spell got assigned to, I went through and did a quick spreadsheet showing which casting classes gained new spells from this allocation, which spells were lost (or at least, will be lost if WotC doesn't manually add them back in to that class), and I'll edit this to add what I think some of the more interesting new options (or more regrettable losses) were.

This of course assumes that the Arcane List will be accessible by Artificers, Bards, Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards; the Divine List by Clerics and Paladins; and the Primal List by Druids and Rangers. Without further ado:




Cantrips
Blade Ward
Chill Touch
Friends
Minor Illusion
True Strike
Vicious Mockery

1st-Level
Armor of Agathys
Arms of Hadar
Burning Hands
Charm Person
Chromatic Orb
Color Spray
Comprehend Languages
Dissonant Whispers
Find Familiar
Fog Cloud
Grease
Hellish Rebuke
Hex
Illusory Script
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Protection from Evil and Good
Ray of Sickness
Shield
Silent Image
Sleep
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Tenser’s Floating Disk
Thunderwave
Unseen Servant
Witch Bolt


Cantrips
None added

1st-Level
Color Spray
Expeditious Retreat
Hex
Jump



Cantrips
none added

1st-level
Compelled Duel
Divine Favor
Heroism
Searing Smite
Thunderous Smite
Wrathful Smite


Cantrips
Message
Spare the Dying

1st-Level
Ensnaring Strike
Hail of Thorns
Hunter’s Mark


Cantrips
N/A

1st-Level
Bane
Guiding Bolt
Healing Word
Inflict Wounds
Sanctuary


Cantrips


1st-level
Create or Destroy Water
Entangle
Faerie Fire
Healing Word
Purify Food and Drink
Thunderwave


Cantrips
Vicious Mockery

1st Level
Alarm
Armor of Agathys
Arms of Hadar
Dissonant Whispers
Find Familiar
Grease
Hellish Rebuke
Hex
Identify
Illusory Script
Longstrider
Protection from Evil and Good
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Tenser’s Floating Disk
Unseen Servant


Cantrips
Acid Splash
Dancing Lights
Fire Bolt
Light
Mending
Message
Ray of Frost
Shocking Grasp
Vicious Mockery

1st-level
Alarm
Burning Hands
Chromatic Orb
Color Spray
Detect Magic
Disguise Self
Dissonant Whispers
False Life
Feather Fall
Find Familiar
Fog Cloud
Grease
Identify
Jump
Longstrider
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Ray of Sickness
Shield
Silent Image
Sleep
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Tenser’s Floating Disk
Thunderwave


Cantrips
Vicious Mockery

1st-level
Armor of Agathys
Arms of Hadar
Dissonant Whispers
Hellish Rebuke
Hex





Cantrips
Guidance
Resistance
Spare the Dying
Thorn Whip

1st-level
Cure Wounds
Faerie Fire
Purify Food and Drink
Sanctuary


Cantrips
Blade Ward
Light
Mage Hand

1st-level
Animal Friendship
Bane
Cure Wounds
Faerie Fire
Heroism
Speak with Animals
Unseen Servant


Cantrips
Mending

1st-Level
none removed


Cantrips
none removed

1st-Level
Charm Person

Paladin: None Removed


Cantrips
none removed

1st-Level
Alarm

Sorcerer: None Removed

Warlock: Eldritch Blast (will almost certainly be changed to a class feature)

Wizard: None Removed

I actually started working on this before the second UA got announced today, so I figured I'd hurry and get it out to the community now since the spell lists (Arcane and Primal anyway) are going to absolutely balloon in size tomorrow. I fully expect some of these to change - e.g. maybe Bard will only get access to Enchantments and Illusions on the Arcane List, and then a selection of spells from elsewhere - but this is the current list of gains and losses.

For those curious, the full spreadsheet is here. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zJWaSclE809vwXfabkaK1wZazPq60AWh1YNjvkvN4Cc/edit?usp=sharing) If it's not too onerous to do so, I'll update it once we have the larger spell lists from subsequent UAs, such as tomorrow's Expert Classes UA.

[PhoenixPhyre]

As everyone likely knows by now from the Character Origins UA (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/one-dnd/character-origins), One D&D is planning to standardize spell lists down to three main ones - Arcane, Divine, and Primal. Each casting class will then align to one of these lists, and possibly also gain a selection of spells from the other lists. The first UA contained all PHB spells from only Cantrips to 1st level.

Based on the list each of spell got assigned to, I went through and did a quick spreadsheet showing which casting classes gained new spells from this allocation, which spells were lost (or at least, will be lost if WotC doesn't manually add them back in to that class), and I'll edit this to add what I think some of the more interesting new options (or more regrettable losses) were.

This of course assumes that the Arcane List will be accessible by Artificers, Bards, Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards; the Divine List by Clerics and Paladins; and the Primal List by Druids and Rangers. Without further ado:




Cantrips
Blade Ward
Chill Touch
Friends
Minor Illusion
True Strike
Vicious Mockery

1st-Level
Armor of Agathys
Arms of Hadar
Burning Hands
Charm Person
Chromatic Orb
Color Spray
Comprehend Languages
Dissonant Whispers
Find Familiar
Fog Cloud
Grease
Hellish Rebuke
Hex
Illusory Script
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Protection from Evil and Good
Ray of Sickness
Shield
Silent Image
Sleep
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Tenser’s Floating Disk
Thunderwave
Unseen Servant
Witch Bolt


Cantrips
Chill Touch
Fire Bolt
Poison Spray
Ray of Frost
Shocking Grasp

1st-Level
Alarm
Armor of Agathys
Arms of Hadar
Burning Hands
Chromatic Orb
Color Spray
Expeditious Retreat
False Life
Find Familiar
Fog Cloud
Grease
Hellish Rebuke
Hex
Jump
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Protection from Evil and Good
Ray of Sickness
Shield
Tenser’s Floating Disk
Witch Bolt


Cantrips
none added

1st-level
Compelled Duel
Divine Favor
Heroism
Searing Smite
Thunderous Smite
Wrathful Smite


Cantrips
Message
Spare the Dying

1st-Level
Ensnaring Strike
Hail of Thorns
Hunter’s Mark


Cantrips
N/A

1st-Level
Bane
Guiding Bolt
Healing Word
Inflict Wounds
Sanctuary


Cantrips
N/A

1st-level
Create or Destroy Water
Entangle
Faerie Fire
Healing Word
Purify Food and Drink
Thunderwave


Cantrips
Vicious Mockery

1st Level
Alarm
Armor of Agathys
Arms of Hadar
Dissonant Whispers
Find Familiar
Grease
Hellish Rebuke
Hex
Identify
Illusory Script
Longstrider
Protection from Evil and Good
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Tenser’s Floating Disk
Unseen Servant


Cantrips
Acid Splash
Dancing Lights
Fire Bolt
Light
Mending
Message
Ray of Frost
Shocking Grasp
Vicious Mockery

1st-level
Alarm
Burning Hands
Chromatic Orb
Color Spray
Detect Magic
Disguise Self
Dissonant Whispers
False Life
Feather Fall
Find Familiar
Fog Cloud
Grease
Identify
Jump
Longstrider
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Ray of Sickness
Shield
Silent Image
Sleep
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Tenser’s Floating Disk
Thunderwave


Cantrips
Vicious Mockery

1st-level
Armor of Agathys
Arms of Hadar
Dissonant Whispers
Hellish Rebuke
Hex





Cantrips
Guidance
Resistance
Spare the Dying
Thorn Whip

1st-level
Cure Wounds
Faerie Fire
Purify Food and Drink
Sanctuary


Cantrips
none lost

1st-level
Animal Friendship
Bane
Cure Wounds
Faerie Fire
Healing Word
Heroism
Speak with Animals


Cantrips
Mending

1st-Level
none removed


Cantrips
none removed

1st-Level
Charm Person

Paladin: None Removed


Cantrips
none removed

1st-Level
Alarm

Sorcerer: None Removed

Warlock: Eldritch Blast (will almost certainly be changed to a class feature)

Wizard: None Removed

I actually started working on this before the second UA got announced today, so I figured I'd hurry and get it out to the community now since the spell lists (Arcane and Primal anyway) are going to absolutely balloon in size tomorrow. I fully expect some of these to change - e.g. maybe Bard will only get access to Enchantments and Illusions on the Arcane List, and then a selection of spells from elsewhere - but this is the current list of gains and losses.

For those curious, the full spreadsheet is here. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zJWaSclE809vwXfabkaK1wZazPq60AWh1YNjvkvN4Cc/edit?usp=sharing) If it's not too onerous to do so, I'll update it once we have the larger spell lists from subsequent UAs, such as tomorrow's Expert Classes UA.

Looks like generally everyone gained with a few very small removals. Bah. That's the exact opposite of what I want to see, especially for wizards.

[PhantomSoul]

Looks like generally everyone gained with a few very small removals. Bah. That's the exact opposite of what I want to see, especially for wizards.

My thoughts exactly (but really, nothing makes it seem like D&Done is for any of the groups I'm in anyway)

[Leon]

Someone is hell bent on making the bard into just another bland caster

[PhoenixPhyre]

Someone is hell bent on making the bard into just another bland caster

The bard? You mean everyone? That's the impression I'm getting. Spells for everyone (via race if nothing else), and homogenous (relatively) lists.

[Psyren]

Before we conclude the sky is falling, let's wait, like, literally several hours and see what the Bard list actually looks like hmm? And if they truly did add every Arcane Spell in Creation to it, kindly ask them to not do that on the survey (I certainly would.)

[Millstone85]

One D&D is planning to standardize spell lists down to three main ones - Arcane, Divine, and Primal. Each casting class will then align to one of these lists, and possibly also gain a selection of spells from the other lists.As well as spells that do not appear on any of the core lists.

The idea is to simplify the design of feats like Magic Initiate, so they do not look dated once some new class is released. Instead of being MI (Wizard) and wondering why you couldn't be MI (Artificer), you are just MI (Arcane).

Beyond that, I think it might nerf subclasses like the Divine Soul sorcerer. Instead of gaining access to all the spells of the cleric, it could instead only get the core divine spell list. But it opens the way to more subclasses like that.

[Psyren]

As well as spells that do not appear on any of the core lists.

The idea is to simplify the design of feats like Magic Initiate, so they do not look dated once some new class is released. Instead of being MI (Wizard) and wondering why you couldn't be MI (Artificer), you are just MI (Arcane).

Beyond that, I think it might nerf subclasses like the Divine Soul sorcerer. Instead of gaining access to all the spells of the cleric, it could instead only get the core divine spell list. But it opens the way to more subclasses like that.

Agreed - and it also allows them to print powerful spells that are only aimed at specific classes. I expect "Druid Grove" will be Druid only instead of Primal for instance.

[Leon]

The bard? You mean everyone? That's the impression I'm getting. Spells for everyone (via race if nothing else), and homogenous (relatively) lists.

Well incrementally ~ 5e made them a full caster and lost a lot of the cool party support features for that and a insipid inspire dice, this list seems to be just stripping anything further out from what made them different in casting

[PallyBass]

So all the arcane casters gonna be walking around with familiars. Imagine a party of 4-6 with 2-4+ owls

[Psyren]

I'm hoping Bard doesn't get everything on that list. But there are definitely some things there I think it should have had all along. I couldn't believe it when I realized Bard didn't have Grease, Expeditious Retreat or Alarm for instance - all spells they had in 3.5 - and I'm definitely in favor of them getting Color Spray, Ray of Sickness, and Find Familiar too.

I'm really excited about Druid getting Hunter's Mark, that's thematic and a nice boost for Moon Druid offense if we're able to take forms with lots of attacks.

What I'm really interested in are cantrips for Paladin and Ranger. Artificer got them, and it's a half-caster, so why not those two?

[animorte]

What I'm really interested in are cantrips for Paladin and Ranger. Artificer got them, and it's a half-caster, so why not those two?

Yes, I've always found it difficult to not take Blessed Warrior and Druidic Warrior respectively. Unless I was going for a specific playstyle.

[Person_Man]

I think its good that WotC's standardizing things. I hate the current way that spell lists are nested within subclasses. But I think One D&D would benefit from a bit more granularity and exclusivity. Perhaps have 8ish different schools of magic. Half casters each get 2 schools, one of which is exclusive to just that class. Full casters each get 4 schools, one of which is exclusive to just that class. Abolish subclasses. (And bring back prestige classes or kits, but without pre-reqs, and without adding new spells to lists). That way I can just read the list of spells, know exactly which classes have each of the spells, and then pick the class I want to play based on it. And every class would have its on unique subcatagory of spells, while still having a shared pool of spells that we can all agree multiple classes should get.

[Pex]

It's possible they'll give Paladin access to Cantrips. If not a class feature then the Tasha version as a Fighting Style option.

[Psyren]

So all the arcane casters gonna be walking around with familiars. Imagine a party of 4-6 with 2-4+ owls

I mean, this happened all the time in 3.5. Familiars are not only extremely useful, they're fun and cute. And that was back when you had to spend a feat in order to get one that scaled properly with most classes.


It's possible they'll give Paladin access to Cantrips. If not a class feature then the Tasha version as a Fighting Style option.

I feel Tasha's approach (i.e. the fighting styles) was a bandaid since errata-ing them into the PHB would have been too big a change for 5e. I'm really, really hoping Ranger has cantrips tomorrow! If they do, I'll update the OP with the gains.

[Talij]

Here's what I came up with looking at the new UA for Bard's and Rangers:


1 Expeditious Retreat Transmut. No
1 Hex Enchantment No
1 Jump Transmut. No
2 Alter Self Transmut. No
2 Blur Illusion No
2 Darkvision Transmut. No
2 Levitate Transmut. No
2 Magic Aura Illusion No
2 Magic Weapon Transmut. No
2 Rope Trick Transmut. No
2 Spider Climb Transmut. No
3 Blink Transmut. No
3 Fly Transmut. No
3 Gaseous Form Transmut. No
3 Haste Transmut. No
3 Phantom Steed Illusion Yes
3 Water Breathing Transmut. Yes
4 Arcane Eye Divination No
4 Control Water Transmut. No
4 Fabricate Transmut. No
4 Stone Shape Transmut. No
4 Stoneskin Transmut.* No
5 Contact Other Plane Divination Yes
5 Creation Illusion No
5 Passwall Transmut. No
5 Telekinesis Transmut. No
6 Disintegrate Transmut. No
6 Flesh to Stone Transmut. No
6 Move Earth Transmut. No
7 Reverse Gravity Transmut. No
7 Sequester Transmut. No
7 Simulacrum Illusion No
8 Control Weather Transmut. No
8 Telepathy Divination* No
9 Shapechange Transmut. No
9 Time Stop Transmut. No
9 Weird Illusion No


0 Blade Ward Abjuration No
0 Light Evocation No
0 Mage Hand Conjuration No
1 Animal Friendship Enchantment No
1 Bane Enchantment No
1 Command Enchantment No
1 Cure Wounds Abjuration No
1 Faerie Fire Evocation
1 Heroism Enchantment No
1 Speak with Animals Divination Yes
1 Unseen Servant Conjuration Yes
2 Aid Abjuration No
2 Animal Messenger Enchantment Yes
2 Cloud of Daggers Conjuration No
2 Heat Metal Transmut. No
2 Locate Animals or Plants Divination Yes
2 Silence Illusion No
2 Zone of Truth Enchantment No
3 Bestow Curse Necromancy No
3 Dispel Magic Abjuration No
3 Feign Death Necromancy
3 Glyph of Warding Abjuration
3 Leomund's Tiny Hut Evocation Yes
3 Nondetection Abjuration No
3 Plant Growth Transmut. No
3 Speak with Dead Necromancy No
3 Speak with Plants Transmut. No
3 Stinking Cloud Conjuration No
4 Dimension Door Conjuration No
5 Awaken Transmut. No
5 Mass Cure Wounds Abjuration No
5 Planar Binding Abjuration No
5 Raise Dead Necromancy No
5 Teleporation Circle Conjuration No
6 Eyebite Necromancy No
6 Find the Path Divination No
6 Guards and Wards Abjuration No
6 Heroes' Feast Conjuration No
7 Forcecage Evocation No
7 Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion Conjuration No
7 Mordenkainen's Sword Evocation No
7 Prismatic Spray Evocation No
7 Regenerate Transmut. No
7 Resurrection Necromancy No
7 Symbol Abjuration No
7 Teleport Conjuration No
8 Mind Blank Abjuration No
8 Power Word Heal Abjuration No
9 Prismatic Wall Abjuration No


0 Druidcraft Transmut. No
0 Guidance Divination No
0 Mending Transmut. No
0 Message Transmut. No
0 Poison Spray Conjuration No
0 Resistance Abjuration No
0 Shillelagh Transmut. No
0 Spare the Dying Necromancy No
0 Thorn Whip Transmut. No
1 Create or Destroy Water Transmut. No
1 Healing Word Abjuration* No
1 Purify Food and Drink Transmut. Yes
1 Thunderwave Transmut. No
2 Augury Divination Yes
2 Enlarge/Reduce Transmut. No
2 Gentle Repose Necromancy Yes
2 Heat Metal Transmut. No
3 Call Lightning Conjuration No
3 Dispel Magic Abjuration No
3 Feign Death Necromancy Yes
3 Mass Healing Word Abjuration* No
3 Sleet Storm Conjuration No
4 Conjure Minor Elementals Conjuration No
4 Control Water Transmut. No
4 Giant Insect Transmut. No
4 Polymorph Transmut. No
4 Stone Shape Transmut. No
5 Antilife Shell Abjuration No
5 Awaken Transmut. No
5 Conjure Elemental Conjuration No
5 Insect Plague Conjuration No
5 Mass Cure Wounds Abjuration* No
5 Reincarnate Necromancy* No
5 Scrying Divination No


1 Alarm Abjuration Yes
1 Searing Smite Evocation No
2 Aid Abjuration No
2 Gust of Wind Evocation No
2 Magic Weapon Transmut. No
3 Wind Wall Evocation No

Note that I counted PHB spells added by Tasha's optional additional spell lists as in the "current" list (without that, Ranger only lost Alarm and Wind Wall...). I was having curious what the limited Schools for Bards really did and really it was less of a change than I thought. They only lost a few that I feel are "Bardy" and what they gained I feel makes up for it (Hex, Haste, Disintegrate!).

[Psyren]

Here's what I came up with looking at the new UA for Bard's and Rangers:


1 Expeditious Retreat Transmut. No
1 Hex Enchantment No
1 Jump Transmut. No
2 Alter Self Transmut. No
2 Blur Illusion No
2 Darkvision Transmut. No
2 Levitate Transmut. No
2 Magic Aura Illusion No
2 Magic Weapon Transmut. No
2 Rope Trick Transmut. No
2 Spider Climb Transmut. No
3 Blink Transmut. No
3 Fly Transmut. No
3 Gaseous Form Transmut. No
3 Haste Transmut. No
3 Phantom Steed Illusion Yes
3 Water Breathing Transmut. Yes
4 Arcane Eye Divination No
4 Control Water Transmut. No
4 Fabricate Transmut. No
4 Stone Shape Transmut. No
4 Stoneskin Transmut.* No
5 Animate Objects Transmut. No
5 Contact Other Plane Divination Yes
5 Creation Illusion No
5 Passwall Transmut. No
5 Telekinesis Transmut. No
6 Disintegrate Transmut. No
6 Flesh to Stone Transmut. No
6 Move Earth Transmut. No
7 Reverse Gravity Transmut. No
7 Sequester Transmut. No
7 Simulacrum Illusion No
8 Control Weather Transmut. No
8 Telepathy Divination* No
9 Shapechange Transmut. No
9 Time Stop Transmut. No
9 Weird Illusion No


0 Blade Ward Abjuration No
0 Light Evocation No
0 Mage Hand Conjuration No
1 Animal Friendship Enchantment No
1 Bane Enchantment No
1 Command Enchantment No
1 Cure Wounds Abjuration No
1 Faerie Fire Evocation
1 Heroism Enchantment No
1 Speak with Animals Divination Yes
1 Unseen Servant Conjuration Yes
2 Aid Abjuration No
2 Animal Messenger Enchantment Yes
2 Cloud of Daggers Conjuration No
2 Heat Metal Transmut. No
2 Locate Animals or Plants Divination Yes
2 Silence Illusion No
2 Zone of Truth Enchantment No
3 Bestow Curse Necromancy No
3 Dispel Magic Abjuration No
3 Feign Death Necromancy
3 Glyph of Warding Abjuration
3 Leomund's Tiny Hut Evocation Yes
3 Nondetection Abjuration No
3 Plant Growth Transmut. No
3 Speak with Dead Necromancy No
3 Speak with Plants Transmut. No
3 Stinking Cloud Conjuration No
4 Dimension Door Conjuration No
5 Awaken Transmut. No
5 Mass Cure Wounds Abjuration No
5 Planar Binding Abjuration No
5 Raise Dead Necromancy No
5 Teleporation Circle Conjuration No
6 Eyebite Necromancy No
6 Find the Path Divination No
6 Guards and Wards Abjuration No
6 Heroes' Feast Conjuration No
7 Forcecage Evocation No
7 Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion Conjuration No
7 Mordenkainen's Sword Evocation No
7 Prismatic Spray Evocation No
7 Regenerate Transmut. No
7 Resurrection Necromancy No
7 Symbol Abjuration No
7 Teleport Conjuration No
8 Mind Blank Abjuration No
8 Power Word Heal Abjuration No
9 Prismatic Wall Abjuration No


0 Druidcraft Transmut. No
0 Guidance Divination No
0 Mending Transmut. No
0 Message Transmut. No
0 Poison Spray Conjuration No
0 Resistance Abjuration No
0 Shillelagh Transmut. No
0 Spare the Dying Necromancy No
0 Thorn Whip Transmut. No
1 Create or Destroy Water Transmut. No
1 Healing Word Abjuration* No
1 Purify Food and Drink Transmut. Yes
1 Thunderwave Transmut. No
2 Augury Divination Yes
2 Enlarge/Reduce Transmut. No
2 Gentle Repose Necromancy Yes
2 Heat Metal Transmut. No
3 Call Lightning Conjuration No
3 Dispel Magic Abjuration No
3 Feign Death Necromancy Yes
3 Mass Healing Word Abjuration* No
3 Sleet Storm Conjuration No
4 Conjure Minor Elementals Conjuration No
4 Control Water Transmut. No
4 Giant Insect Transmut. No
4 Polymorph Transmut. No
4 Stone Shape Transmut. No
5 Antilife Shell Abjuration No
5 Awaken Transmut. No
5 Conjure Elemental Conjuration No
5 Insect Plague Conjuration No
5 Mass Cure Wounds Abjuration* No
5 Reincarnate Necromancy* No
5 Scrying Divination No


1 Alarm Abjuration Yes
1 Searing Smite Evocation No
2 Aid Abjuration No
2 Gust of Wind Evocation No
2 Magic Weapon Transmut. No
3 Wind Wall Evocation No

Note that I counted PHB spells added by Tasha's optional additional spell lists as in the "current" list (without that, Ranger only lost Alarm and Wind Wall...). I was having curious what the limited Schools for Bards really did and really it was less of a change than I thought. They only lost a few that I feel are "Bardy" and what they gained I feel makes up for it (Hex, Haste, Disintegrate!).

Yeah I was focused on PHB as well and didn't check the Tasha's lists for prior additions. With that said, some of your additions were already on the Bard list e.g. Animate Objects. Regardless, excellent work!

You can add Mass Healing Word to the "added to bard" list from their Songs of Restoration feature :smallsmile:

[Talij]

Yeah I was focused on PHB as well and didn't check the Tasha's lists for prior additions. With that said, some of your additions were already on the Bard list e.g. Animate Objects. Regardless, excellent work!

You can add Mass Healing Word to the "added to bard" list from their Songs of Restoration feature :smallsmile:
Doh! Edited list to remove Animate Objects. If there are others, let me know.

Mass Healing Word was added in Tasha's, so I didn't mark it as new in my count.

[sambojin]

I'm glad Druids now have Hunters Mark. I'm a bit miffed that they don't have Tidal Wave any more. In fact, no-one does, it's been removed.

And all it needed was the ability to upcast it for more damage..... It was a really useful multifunction spell otherwise. Prones/ air-prones/ lights-out/ great targeting-size non-restrictions/ and a smidgen of damage as well. Plus, no concentration!

[Psyren]

I'm glad Druids now have Hunters Mark. I'm a bit miffed that they don't have Tidal Wave any more. In fact, no-one does, it's been removed.

And all it needed was the ability to upcast it for more damage..... It was a really useful multifunction spell otherwise. Prones/ air-prones/ lights-out/ great targeting-size non-restrictions/ and a smidgen of damage as well. Plus, no concentration!

Tidal Wave isn't core, it came out in Elemental Evil. The UA only contains core spells.

[Lavaeolus]

Cantrips
Blade Ward
Light
Mage Hand

1st-level
Animal Friendship
Bane
Cure Wounds
Faerie Fire
Healing Word
Heroism
Speak with Animals
Unseen Servant

Unless I misunderstand the list, Bards keep access to Healing Word through their Songs of Restoration feature. They can't prepare it at level 1, though.

EDIT: Oh right, sorry, I assume this section just hasn't been updated yet. I think all the rest of these are still gone, though. Gonna miss Faerie Fire.

[KorvinStarmast]

The bard? You mean everyone? That's the impression I'm getting. Spells for everyone (via race if nothing else), and homogenous (relatively) lists. I will PM you my breakdown when I get home tonight.

I am posting one table at a time in a different thread that puts school and kind (ADP) into a table from level 0 to 9.

Bards lost the Light Cantrip.
WTF? :smallconfused:

[Psyren]

Unless I misunderstand the list, Bards keep access to Healing Word through their Songs of Restoration feature. They can't prepare it at level 1, though.

EDIT: Oh right, sorry, I assume this section just hasn't been updated yet. I think all the rest of these are still gone, though. Gonna miss Faerie Fire.

Thanks for the catch, updated :smallsmile:



Bards lost the Light Cantrip.
WTF? :smallconfused:

They do have Dancing Lights instead as that is an illusion now.

(Not listed in the OP as they essentially never lost it)

[Slipjig]

Wait, is it for sure that all Arcane casters will have access to the full Arcane list? I was really hoping it would go the other way, with some spells in common, but some spells roped off for only Bards and Artificers.

I'm fine with if Wizards have a bigger spells list (it's their fundamental schtick), but some things fit Artificer or Bard thematically, but not Wizards (e.g. Vicious Mockery).

[Psyren]

Wait, is it for sure that all Arcane casters will have access to the full Arcane list? I was really hoping it would go the other way, with some spells in common, but some spells roped off for only Bards and Artificers.

I'm fine with if Wizards have a bigger spells list (it's their fundamental schtick), but some things fit Artificer or Bard thematically, but not Wizards (e.g. Vicious Mockery).

I'm going off the current Arcane List from the two UAs we have so far, and VM is there both times. I don't see an elegant way to restrict specific spells out of a given list to specific classes other than making them class features the way they're doing things currently - the best they can really do without just going back to individual class lists is to restrict things by school, and there's no school they can put VM in that Wizards won't be able to access.

Alternatively, they could create some kind of "Signature Cantrip" feature for all the spellcasters and come up with a unique cantrip-level effect for each of them that doesn't belong to any of the lists. Bard's could be Vicious Mockery, Warlock's could be Eldritch Blast, they could bring back Read Magic for Wizards etc.

With all that said, I don't really see Wizards/Sorcerers/Warlocks being able to mock enemies as being that big a deal.

[animorte]

but some things fit Artificer or Bard thematically, but not Wizards (e.g. Vicious Mockery).

I don’t know. Intellectual quips made with no humor involved, just from a really smart and sheltered individual could easily be mocking someone viciously.

[Slipjig]

With all that said, I don't really see Wizards/Sorcerers/Warlocks being able to mock enemies as being that big a deal.

Ok, it isn't mechanically problematic. I just think every class ought to have at least a few signature gimmicks that nobody else gets, and, "Teh Wizards canz do ALL the thingz!" runs roughshod over that.

[animorte]

Ok, it isn't mechanically problematic. I just think every class ought to have at least a few signature gimmicks that nobody else gets, and, "Teh Wizards canz do ALL the thingz!" runs roughshod over that.

Despite the content of my previous post just above yours, I agree with this. I’ve always had a thing against Wizards.

Oddly enough, here lately the class that is able to acquire the most access to other people’s stuff has been the Bard… Not that I have a problem with it.

[Psyren]

I don’t know. Intellectual quips made with no humor involved, just from a really smart and sheltered individual could easily be mocking someone viciously.

"It would be unkind of me to speculate on your assorted shortcomings." (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1183.html)
"If you are denying ME, then you clearly don't have the mental faculties to handle the really complex spells. Are you multiclass maybe? There is no shame in dabbling." (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html)



Oddly enough, here lately the class that is able to acquire the most access to other people’s stuff has been the Bard.

This is functionality they sorely need. They have some gaping holes as a primary caster, e.g. being the only caster that can't dispel magic, the only arcanists that can't counterspell or summon or teleport, the only healer that can't cast Heal or rez etc.

[animorte]

"It would be unkind of me to speculate on your assorted shortcomings." (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1183.html)
"If you are denying ME, then you clearly don't have the mental faculties to handle the really complex spells. Are you multiclass maybe? There is no shame in dabbling." (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html)

Haha, thanks for this!


This is functionality they sorely need. They have some gaping holes as a primary caster, e.g. being the only caster that can't dispel magic, the only arcanists that can't counterspell or summon or teleport, the only healer that can't cast Heal or rez etc.
Oh, yes. I agree. I fixed my statement to reflect that.

[KorvinStarmast]

So all the arcane casters gonna be walking around with familiars. Imagine a party of 4-6 with 2-4+ owls Yeah. And they'll die frequently.

They do have Dancing Lights instead as that is an illusion now. Bards already have dancing lights now: I discovered in play that it's a poor spell, specifically as it requires concentration.
Dancing Lights requires concentration, Light does not.
Bard spells are heavy into conc as it is ... DL is useless after about level 2. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Bards already have dancing lights now: I discovered in play that it's a poor spell, specifically as it requires concentration.
Dancing Lights requires concentration, Light does not.
Bard spells are heavy into conc as it is ... DL is useless after about level 2. :smalltongue:

Yeah, it's almost as though Bards are supposed to be worse at magic than the other full casters or something. What's the issue again?

[Slipjig]

This is functionality they sorely need. They have some gaping holes as a primary caster, e.g. being the only caster that can't dispel magic, the only arcanists that can't counterspell or summon or teleport, the only healer that can't cast Heal or rez etc.

Actually, I'm totally okay with those gaps. I don't think the Bard generally SHOULD be able to go toe-to-toe with a Wizard in counterspell duels, or be as good at healing as the Cleric. I do think they should have Dispel Magic, but maybe only as a ritual. If you have multiple classes with identical overlap in their spell lists, why are they different classes?

Frankly, I LIKE the fact that both the Bard and Artificer have a more limited spell list, it gives their magic a distinct flavor. I'd like to see Wizard do something similar.

[Psyren]

Actually, I'm totally okay with those gaps. I don't think the Bard generally SHOULD be able to go toe-to-toe with a Wizard in counterspell duels, or be as good at healing as the Cleric.

In case the blue text above didn't make it clear, I'm okay with the Bard list having these large gaps as well. 9th-level-spells or not, at the end of the day they are Experts.

A bard can be your group's only offensive caster, much like it can be your group's only frontliner or healer, but that doesn't mean your group will have an easy time.


Frankly, I LIKE the fact that both the Bard and Artificer have a more limited spell list, it gives their magic a distinct flavor. I'd like to see Wizard do something similar.

I've very curious what they do with Wizard, especially since it looks like every caster is going to be prepared now.

The main disadvantage of being prepared from 3.5 - needing to predict how much of a given spell you might need ahead of time each day - is gone in 5e.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah, it's almost as though Bards are supposed to be worse at magic than the other full casters or something. What's the issue again?
Concentration, that's the issue. They got rid of it off of guidance, it needs to go away for Dancing lights. And given that your snide remark about bards is wrong, I do not see this line of discussion being in the least bit productive.

[Psyren]

Concentration, that's the issue. They got rid of it off of guidance, it needs to go away for Dancing lights. And given that your snide remark about bards is wrong, I do not see this line of discussion being in the least bit productive.

It's not wrong. They have to wait until level 11 to get pretty foundational full caster tools, and even then, face huge tradeoffs for doing so. They are the worst full caster in terms of spell list by a mile, and will be so for the majority of most campaigns - which means their placement as Experts fits perfectly.

[Slipjig]

I'm not a fan of going full Vancian prepared. When I prep my spell list, I realize that I'm PROBABLY going to spend all my Level 1 slots on Healing Word, but I like the fact that I can have a few oddball spells like Snare or Skywrite in reserve just in case an opportunity comes up to use them.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm not a fan of going full Vancian prepared. When I prep my spell list, I realize that I'm PROBABLY going to spend all my Level 1 slots on Healing Word, but I like the fact that I can have a few oddball spells like Snare or Skywrite in reserve just in case an opportunity comes up to use them. Skywrite being a ritual is handy. :smallbiggrin: (That's from Xanathar's, though).