The five metallic dragons, 2 are alloys and 2 have the same element

[Mastikator]

In D&D 3.5,4 and 5 the 5 metallic dragons are gold, silver, brass, bronze and copper. Brass stands out because it's fire, but IMO I think gold takes dibs on fire, and brass and bronze are copper alloys.

I think there's an easy fix for this. Swap out brass with lead, make it poison, swap out bronze with iron. And iron is still lightning.

So instead of this setup
Gold => fire
Silver => cold
Brass => fire
Bronze => lightning
Copper => acid

We get this setup
Gold => fire
Silver => cold
Iron => lightning
Lead => poison
Copper => acid


I know there is this dragonlance lore thing, and in dragonlance you can keep it with 2 alloys and 2 fire based dragons. But I think in other settings it would be much cooler to have iron dragons and lead dragons.

[GeoffWatson]

4th edition had gold, silver, copper, iron, and adamantine dragons, which I think was an improvement as nobody could remember the differences between copper, bronze and brass dragons, and not being alloys.

[Khedrac]

It might be worth considering the history of the metallic dragons - especially as you have posted this is general roleplaying not one fo the D&D specific forums.

(Remember, most games other than D&D will laugh at this post as nonsense, the players should be more polite though.)

Originally there were 6 dragons:
White - Cold
Black - Acid
Green - Poison
Blue - Lightning
Red - Fire
Gold - Fire or Poison
Of these only Gold were Lawful (sort of = good)

The along came AD&D and Good and Evil alignments so the other metallic dragons got added to balance the evil "chromatic" dragons (two of which) had been neutral before:
brass - sleep or fear
bronze - lightning or repulsion
copper - acid or slow
silver - cold or paralysis
As you can see, brass dragons got a bit shortchanged without a damaging breath weapon whilst gold was left as the only good dragon without a way to incapacitate/hinder opponents without killing them.

3rd Ed came with a huge range of revisions, most of which had pretty good reasons behind them (even if they didn't work).
Poison was dropped as a breath weapon, probably because higher level adventurers tend to be immune to it (start with heroes' feast) and the basic dragons (the 10) were more closely tied to the elements - but there are only 4 elements so someone had to double-up on both sides.
The good dragon breaths were also shuffled to give everyone one a damaging attack and a non-lethal attack.

And that I think brings us to what you are complaining about. I agree that the shared elements are a problem, for both evil and good dragons, but poison is just too weak in 3rd Ed to be a viable breath weapon even if it has far better ties to fable and legend.

[hamishspence]

4e had "poison as an energy type" and gave poison breath to some of the dragons.

[The Glyphstone]

Why not sonic damage breath? That would give 5 elements to pick from, but sonic is relegated to obscure stuff like Gem Dragons.

[GreatWyrmGold]

If you're gonna replace the five recognized metallic dragons with new ones to un-alloy them, why not go all the way and make seven metallic dragons for the seven classical metals?

As for breath weapon damage types...
Copper: Acid
Gold: Fire
Iron: Slashing
Lead: Poison
Mercury (Quicksilver): Cold
Silver: Cold
Tin: Lightning
You might disagree with this list, especially if you don't think keeping copper, gold, and silver dragons' elements the same is a priority, but these are my thoughts.

[Tanarii]

as nobody could remember the differences between copper, bronze and brass dragons,
Mountain dwelling pranksters
coastline dwelling noble (and boring)
Desert dwelling hot tempered

Copper and Brass have always been the only metallic dragons that are any fun in a heroic campaign. Because they will totally mess with and piss off heroes. Gold, Silver, and Bronze are just there as DM DM agents of deus ex machina,

[Millstone85]

As for breath weapon damage types...

Iron: Slashinghttps://swordscomic.com/media/CXXII.png

[False God]

I think the bigger issue is overalpping colors. You always know a red dragon when you see it because well, it's red, and it is distinct from Blue, Black, Green and White. Brass, Bronze and Gold are all gold-ish; Iron, Silver and Lead are all...basically silver-ish.

Which really only leaves us with Silver, Copper and Gold as distinct colors. Unfortunately, Nickel, Tin, Aluminum and Mercury are all silver-ish too. Equally unfortunately, most metals are kinda "metal" in color, a dull silver-grey color.

There's also already an Iron Dragon (3.5 if you want stats), as well as a Cobalt, Tin, Mercury, Orium (which I think is red and also not a real metal), Adamantine, Chromium, Tungsten and Steel. All of which with stats.

Cobalt might work as a 4th color since it is commonly associated with the color blue, even though "cobalt blue" is a cobalt-aluminum mixture.
Mercury could work as a 5th metallic dragon not for its distinctive color, but for a more distinctive appearance, ie: "smoother" and more "fluid" than the normal beefy kaiju look dragons have now.

Both metals would work well as replacements for Bronze and Brass respectively. The shimmering, reflective nature of mercury would be well suited to a desert with its mirages; and a blue-colored dragon would of course, do great around the water.

I also HIGHLY recommend this thread: 30+ New Dragons (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?169209-30-New-Dragons-(more-true-dragons-than-the-draconomicon)) if you're looking to add some more unique dragons to your games, most are fairly well balanced.

[Metastachydium]

I think the bigger issue is overalpping colors. You always know a red dragon when you see it because well, it's red, and it is distinct from Blue, Black, Green and White. Brass, Bronze and Gold are all gold-ish; Iron, Silver and Lead are all...basically silver-ish.

Which really only leaves us with Silver, Copper and Gold as distinct colors. Unfortunately, Nickel, Tin, Aluminum and Mercury are all silver-ish too. Equally unfortunately, most metals are kinda "metal" in color, a dull silver-grey color.


And that's where you are wrong! A bronze/copper dragon has good chances of being green (because verdigris), whereas an iron dragon has fair chances of being red (because rust) and silver/gold are less reactive and therefore oxidize less readily and have a better chance of retaining their colour. Add "diseased" tin (with a coating of dull, rather than silvery, gray α-tin) and you have a silvery gray/green/red/dull gray/yellow group of five.

For faeces and giggles, you can add a sodium dragon to the mix, distinguished from the others through constantly being on fire!!!!

[NRSASD]

you can add a sodium dragon to the mix, distinguished from the others through constantly being on fire!!!!

But if a Green Dragon breathes on it, the sodium dragon dissolves into table salt!

https://media.wizards.com/2014/images/dnd/articles/GreenDragon_TH1.jpg

[GreatWyrmGold]

https://swordscomic.com/media/CXXII.png
Not exactly what I had in mind, but...also not completely wrong.




For faeces and giggles, you can add a sodium dragon to the mix, distinguished from the others through constantly being on fire!!!!But if a Green Dragon breathes on it, the sodium dragon dissolves into table salt!
"Thank you for ending my suffering..."
"I didn't do this for you, I did it because you blew up my swamp when you crashed!"
"Just be glad they didn't suggest a cesium dragon."

[KorvinStarmast]

For the OP: This appears to be complaining just to complain. There's nothing wrong with these dragons.
Why not sonic damage breath? That would give 5 elements to pick from, but sonic is relegated to obscure stuff like Gem Dragons. Thunder damage in 5e, but yeah, a sonic attack would be pretty good, and you'd want to name the dragon Hawkwind. :smallbiggrin: Bronze Dragon does thunder/sonic damage. Great mod, I might make that mod to my 5e Bronze dragons. It will sound like a big bell, like the opening to an AC/DC song.

Mountain dwelling pranksters
coastline dwelling noble (and boring)
Desert dwelling hot tempered
Copper and Brass have always been the only metallic dragons that are any fun in a heroic campaign. Because they will totally mess with and piss off heroes. Gold, Silver, and Bronze are just there as DM DM agents of deus ex machina, Concur.

I know there is this dragonlance lore thing, and in dragonlance you can keep it with 2 alloys and 2 fire based dragons. But I think in other settings it would be much cooler to have iron dragons and lead dragons. Steel Dragons were in IIRC 2d edition AD&D. I see no reason to have a lead dragon: if you want lead, get a Zeppelin.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Steel Dragons were in IIRC 2d edition AD&D. I see no reason to have a lead dragon: if you want lead, get a Zeppelin.
Why not lead dragons? Is there a minimum value per Troy ounce that metals should reach before getting metallic dragons named after them? What is the basis of this immediate dismissal?

[D&D_Fan]

Established Metallic Dragons:
Brass Dragon *
Bronze Dragon *
Cobalt Dragon
Copper Dragon *
Electrum Dragon
Gold Dragon *
Iron Dragon
Mercury Dragon
Platinum Dragon
Silver Dragon *
Steel Dragon *

* In 5E

Some of these dragons would be hybrids between two different existing dragons, because some are alloys.

Adamant Dragon
Adamantium Dragon
Adamony Dragon
Antimony Dragon
- Earth's Blood (Dwarven Antimony) Dragon
Antine Dragon
Arambarium Dragon
Arandur Dragon
Arinyark Dragon
Arjale Dragon
Arsenic Dragon
Aurebony Dragon
Billon Dragon
Blachalcum Dragon
Boernerine Dragon
Bolusture Dragon
Brass Dragon
- Ignan Brass Dragon
Bronze Dragon
Brozahrium Dragon
Cadrium Dragon
Catoetine Dragon
Celebur (Plutonium) Dragon
Chromium Dragon
Cobalt Dragon
Copper Dragon
- Raysorite (Harmonic Copper) Dragon
Electrium Dragon
Electrum Dragon
Elrodnite Dragon
Eog Dragon
- Black Eog Dragon
- Red Eog Dragon
- White Eog Dragon
Eonmite Dragon
Ethril Dragon
Fabrinine Dragon
Gold Dragon
- Red Gold Dragon
- Rose Gold (Copper Gold) Dragon
- White Gold Dragon
- Yellow Gold Dragon
Graphite Dragon
Gravanium Dragon
Halrulite Dragon
Hizagkuur Dragon
Javednite Dragon
Keron Dragon
Kregora Dragon
Kyrrad Dragon
Lead Dragon
Iclling Dragon
Inniculmoid Dragon
Irbynite Dragon
Iron Dragon
- Cold Iron Dragon
- Durang (Dark Iron) Dragon
- Infernal Iron Dragon
- Power Iron Dragon
- Purpure (Purple Iron) Dragon
- Starmetal (Meteoric Iron) Dragon
Irridesium Dragon
Ithildin Dragon
Ithilnaur Dragon
Lysaughton Dragon
Mabril Dragon
Magmir Dragon
Magnesium Dragon
Manganese Dragon
Mcgrail Dragon
Mercury Dragon
- Fixed Mercury Dragon
- Solid Mercury Dragon
Mithrarian Dragon
Mithril Dragon
- Celestial Mithril Dragon
- Githril (Githyanki Mithril) Dragon
- Gold Mithril Dragon
- Malanga Dragon
- Silver Mithril Dragon
- Tectorite Mithril Dragon
Molybdenum Dragon
Mordakur Dragon
Neurolite Dragon
Nickel Dragon
Ogamur Dragon
Orchallium Dragon
Orichalcum Dragon
Pewter Dragon
Pellium Dragon
Peraltoid Dragon
Pitch Metal Dragon
Platinum Dragon
Platnite Dragon
Potin Dragon
Rosan Dragon
Sevenril Dragon
Shadarkeem Metal Dragon
Silbony Dragon
Silver Dragon
- Hadrathium (War Silver) Dragon
- Pure Silver Dragon
- Telstang (Truesilver) Dragon
Speculum Dragon
Steel Dragon
- Blackrock (Godsteel) Dragon
- Bloodsteel AKA Demonsteel (Red Steel) Dragon
- Carbon Steel Dragon
- Celestial Steel Dragon
- Cinnabryl (Red Steel) Dragon
- Dajavva (Green Steel) Dragon
- Darksteel Dragon
- Diamond Steel Dragon
- Dlarun (Icesteel) Dragon
- Elven Steel Dragon
- Emerald Steel Dragon
- Forgotten Steel Dragon
- Glowiesteel Dragon
- Laen (Glassteel) Dragon
- Orcslayer Dragon
- Ruby Steel Dragon
- Sapphire Steel Dragon
- Siderite (Meteoric Steel) Dragon
- Solarite (Sun Steel) Dragon
- Soul Steel Dragon
- Tantulhor (Banesteel) Dragon
- Volcanic Steel Dragon
- Whitesteel Dragon
Stellaine Dragon
Taurith Dragon
Tarnrill Dragon
Tin Dragon
- Miner's Tin Dragon
Titanite Dragon
Titanium Dragon
- Black Titanium Dragon
Tsarang Dragon
Tsargo Dragon
- Adamant Tsargo Dragon
- Copper Tsargo Dragon
- Gold Tsargo Dragon
- Silver Tsargo Dragon
Tungsten Dragon
Vaanum Dragon
Vartium Dragon
Wetznite Dragon
Yaddrakk Dragon
Zardazil Dragon
Zinc Dragon


Steel Dragons really get around, eh?

Also, who knew there were so many metals in D&D and adjacent games. And if you thought this list was long, wait until you find out how many different gemstones there are...

[Imbalance]

Framing this consideration to focus on metallics ignores a similar problem with chromatics: red and blue are primary colors, green is a secondary color, and black and white are shades (or tints?) and not true colors by some definitions. The closest analogy for this grouping is the old RGB trinity for tube TV's, plus on/off.

Where are the remaining color wheel dragons? Or visible spectrum dragons? Or infrared dragons? Or fluorescent dragons? Neon? LED?

And never mind all that - WotC is really selling themselves short on licensed miniatures with only five gem dragons (does ruby even count anymore?). They should at least cover all the traditional birthstones, right?

[Mastikator]

Framing this consideration to focus on metallics ignores a similar problem with chromatics: red and blue are primary colors, green is a secondary color, and black and white are shades (or tints?) and not true colors by some definitions. The closest analogy for this grouping is the old RGB trinity for tube TV's, plus on/off.

Where are the remaining color wheel dragons? Or visible spectrum dragons? Or infrared dragons? Or fluorescent dragons? Neon? LED?

And never mind all that - WotC is really selling themselves short on licensed miniatures with only five gem dragons (does ruby even count anymore?). They should at least cover all the traditional birthstones, right?

Normally I'd say that color and light frequency are not the same, but chromatic specifically refers to pure hues. The chromatic dragons should be the colors of the rainbow.

-

The reason I picked lead and iron is because those are pure metals used in ancient times. (also tin).

A big problem I saw was that the 5 chromatic dragons each had an element attached to them, but the metallic ones instead had 4 elements, with fire being repeated. I figure lead and poison go together. The reason I suggested iron is because iron dragon sounds cooler than tin dragon. And iron can be naturally magnetic so it makes sense to have it be electric.

[D&D_Fan]

Where are the remaining color wheel dragons? Or visible spectrum dragons? Or infrared dragons? Or fluorescent dragons? Neon? LED?

And never mind all that - WotC is really selling themselves short on licensed miniatures with only five gem dragons (does ruby even count anymore?). They should at least cover all the traditional birthstones, right?

Established Chromatic Dragons:
Red Dragon *
Orange Dragon (Apparently it was in 3E?)
Yellow Dragon
Green Dragon *
Blue Dragon *
Purple Dragon *
Pink Dragon
White Dragon *
Grey Dragon AKA Cave Dragon *
Black Dragon *
Brown Dragon
Salt Dragon

* In 5E

Established Gem Dragons (And Neutral Dragons, which are basically the same thing):
Amber Dragon
Amethyst Dragon *
Beljuril Dragon
Chardalyn Dragon (technically a construct but who cares) *
Crystal Dragon *
Emerald Dragon *
Jacinth Dragon
Jade Dragon
Moonstone Dragon *
Obsidian Dragon
Pearl Dragon
Ruby Dragon
Sapphire Dragon *
Topaz Dragon *
Tiger's Eye Dragon

* In 5E

No Diamond Dragon. You'd think there'd be one...

Based off of all the gems in D&D, the full list should ideally be:

Agate Dragon
- Banded Agate Dragon
- Eye Agate Dragon
- Fire Agate Dragon
- Frost Agate Dragon
- Moss Agate Dragon
- Tiger Eye Agate Dragon
Agni Mani Dragon
Alestone Dragon
Alexandrite Dragon
Amaratha Dragon
Amber Dragon
- Cranor Dragon
- Dragonbane Amber Dragon
Amethyst Dragon
Andar Dragon
Aquamarine Dragon
Augelite Dragon
Aventurine Dragon
Azurite Dragon
Beljuril Dragon
Bloodstone Dragon
Bluestone Dragon
Boakhar Dragon
Brandeen Dragon
Carnelian Dragon
Chalcedony Dragon
- Crown of Silver Dragon
Chardalyn Dragon
Chasm Creeper Dragon
Chrysoberyl Dragon
Chrysocholla Dragon
Chrysoprase Dragon
Citrine Dragon
Cleiophane Dragon
Coral Dragon
- Angelar's Skin Dragon
- Horn Coral Dragon
Corstal Dragon
Crystal Dragon
- Iomic Crystal Dragon
- Rock Crystal Dragon
- Viridian Crystal Dragon
Datchas Dragon
Diamond Dragon
Diopside Dragon
- Star Diopside Dragon
Dioptase Dragon
Disthene Dragon
Emerald Dragon
- Curna Emerald Dragon
Epidote Dragon
Euclase Dragon
Flamedance Dragon
Fluorspar Dragon
Garnet Dragon
Glowstone Dragon
Goldline Dragon
Greenstone Dragon
Gypsum Dragon
- Satin Spar (Feather Gypsum) Dragon
Hambergyle Dragon
Heart of the Lion Dragon
Heartstone Dragon
Heliodor Dragon
Hematite Dragon
Hyaline Dragon
Hydrophane Dragon
Hypersthene Dragon
Iol Dragon
Irtios Dragon
Jacinth Dragon
Jade Dragon
- Tomb Jade Dragon
Jargoon Dragon
Jasmal Dragon
Jasper Dragon
Jet Dragon
King's Tear Dragon
Kornerupine Dragon
Laculite Dragon
Laeral's Tear (Beryllonite) Dragon
Lapis Lazuli Dragon
Luriyl Dragon
Lolth's Candle Dragon
Lynx Eye Dragon
Malachite Dragon
Malacon Dragon
Mellochrysos Dragon
Microcline Dragon
Moonbar Dragon
Moonstone Dragon
Mykaro Dragon
Mynteer Dragon
Nelvine Dragon
Nune Dragon
Obsidian Dragon
- Rainbown Obsidian Dragon
- Snowflake Obsidian Dragon
Octel Dragon
Omlar Gem Dragon
Onyx Dragon
Oolite Dragon
Opal Dragon
- Black Opal Dragon
- Fire Opal Dragon
- Water Opal Dragon
Orphealine Dragon
Orbaline Dragon
Orblen Dragon
Orl Dragon
Orprase Dragon
Pearl Dragon
- Saintsblood Pearl Dragon
Peridot Dragon
Phenalope Dragon
Pipestone Dragon
Quartz Dragon
- Algae Dragon
- Blue Quartz Dragon
- Smoky Quartz Dragon
- Rose Quartz Dragon
- Star Rose Quartz Dragon
Raindrop Dragon
Ravenar Dragon
Rhodochrosite Dragon
Roguestone Dragon
Rosaline Dragon
Ruby Dragon
- Star Ruby Dragon
Rusteen Dragon
Saganite Dragon
Samarskite Dragon
Sanidine Dragon
Sapphire Dragon
- Black Sapphire Dragon
- Star Sapphire Dragon
Sarbossa Dragon
Sardonyx Dragon
Scapra Dragon
Serpentine Dragon
Shandon Dragon
Sharpstone Dragon
Sheen Dragon
- Gold Sheen Dragon
Silkstone Dragon
Sinhalite Dragon
Skydrop Dragon
Sphene Dragon
Spinel Dragon
Spodumene Dragon
Sunstone Dragon
Tabasheer Dragon
Tchazar Dragon
Tectorite Dragon
Tempus' Tear (Red Tear) Dragon
Thuparlial Dragon
Topaz Dragon
Tourmaline Dragon
Tremair Dragon
Turquoise Dragon
Ulvaen Dragon
Variscite Dragon
Violine Dragon
Waterstar Dragon
Webstone Dragon
Witherite Dragon
Wonderstone Dragon
Woodtine Dragon
Zarbrina Dragon
Zendalure Dragon
Ziose Dragon
Zircon Dragon
I told you there would be a lot.


Conclusion:
Based on this disparity between what is and what could be, I am inclined to agree. They need to add more gem dragons.

[D&D_Fan]

A big problem I saw was that the 5 chromatic dragons each had an element attached to them, but the metallic ones instead had 4 elements, with fire being repeated. I figure lead and poison go together. The reason I suggested iron is because iron dragon sounds cooler than tin dragon. And iron can be naturally magnetic so it makes sense to have it be electric.

Lead being poison and Iron being electric is actually really clever, what with lead poisoning and ferromagnetism.
For secondary breath attacks though, maybe lead dragons could inflict slowness from greater mass, and iron dragons could push and pull targets with their breath attack as an extension of magnetism?

[KorvinStarmast]

Why not lead dragons? Is there a minimum value per Troy ounce that metals should reach before getting metallic dragons named after them? What is the basis of this immediate dismissal? In D&D lead blocks magic.
Dragons are magical creatures.
That is why the lead dragon is a {censored} idea, given the inherent contradiction.
Weight/mass/density has BFA to do with it.

[False God]

In D&D lead blocks magic.
Dragons are magical creatures.
That is why the lead dragon is a {censored} idea, given the inherent contradiction.
Weight/mass/density has BFA to do with it.

You know they're not actually made of lead right?

[awa]

I think lead only blocks certain divination it is not a general anti magic but that said you could totally make a dragon that does not cast spells and has significantly better Sr than is typical for a dragon of its age. Further metallic typically have two breath weapons and an anti magic field breath would certainly be a potent one.

[Metastachydium]

A big problem I saw was that the 5 chromatic dragons each had an element attached to them, but the metallic ones instead had 4 elements, with fire being repeated.

(In 3.5, both greens and blacks had acid.)


I figure lead and poison go together. The reason I suggested iron is because iron dragon sounds cooler than tin dragon. And iron can be naturally magnetic so it makes sense to have it be electric.

Copper( alloys), silver and gold are all much better conductors, on the other hand.


Established Chromatic Dragons:
Red Dragon *
Yellow Dragon
Green Dragon *
Blue Dragon *
Purple Dragon *
Pink Dragon
White Dragon *
Grey Dragon AKA Cave Dragon *
Black Dragon *
Brown Dragon
Salt Dragon

* In 5E

So... There has never been an Orange Dragon. And Salt isn't even a color.

I'd make an Expanded List™ for Chromatic Dragons, but it would literally just be Orange.

Wrong! 3rd edition (I'm not sure which period) did have orange dragons. They were (if memory serves) in DraMag and (for some reason) flightless, but they were true dragons all the same.

[D&D_Fan]

Wrong! 3rd edition (I'm not sure which period) did have orange dragons. They were (if memory serves) in DraMag and (for some reason) flightless, but they were true dragons all the same.

Thanks, will fix my list lol. Turns out that wasn't the only error either. The Jade Dragon and Tiger's Eye Dragon were both also in DragonMag. Along with like, a half dozen other Brown Dragons. No wonder there are so many brown dragons though, too many colors get muddled together after a while.

[KorvinStarmast]

You know they're not actually made of lead right? Do they weigh as much as a duck?

[False God]

Do they weigh as much as a duck?

Yes.

Because in a fantasy setting, a duck could weigh theoretically anything.

[hamishspence]

You know they're not actually made of lead right?

In 4e at least, all metallic dragons have traces of the relevant metal in their scales - gold dragons have gold in their scales, silver dragons, silver in their scales, and so on.

[Mastikator]

In 4e at least, all metallic dragons have traces of the relevant metal in their scales - gold dragons have gold in their scales, silver dragons, silver in their scales, and so on.

If it's a problem for lead then it's doubly so with gold dragon, since- after all, gold is heavier and harder and impervious-er than lead.

[Myth27]

If it's a problem for lead then it's doubly so with gold dragon, since- after all, gold is heavier and harder and impervious-er than lead.

I think they should be metals with the most possible distinct colors. So having silver iron quicksilver and other grey metals doesn't work. I think they chose those 5 because they are mostly different colors.

[Metastachydium]

Alright, I went around and checked a few things.


Established Metallic Dragons:
Brass Dragon *
Bronze Dragon *
Cobalt Dragon
Copper Dragon *
Electrum Dragon
Gold Dragon *
Iron Dragon
Mercury Dragon
Platinum Dragon
Silver Dragon *
Steel Dragon *

* In 5E


You can add Chromium, Nickel (LE metallics!), TungstenDraMag356, AdamantineDraMag321 and maybe RustDrac (LE/LN) to this list…


Established Chromatic Dragons:
Red Dragon *
Orange Dragon (Apparently it was in 3E?)
Yellow Dragon
Green Dragon *
Blue Dragon *
Purple Dragon *
Pink Dragon
White Dragon *
Grey Dragon AKA Cave Dragon *
Black Dragon *
Brown Dragon
Salt Dragon

* In 5E

…a definitive confirmation that Orange dragonsDComp were a thing in 3.5 here…


Established Gem Dragons (And Neutral Dragons, which are basically the same thing):

…and, finally, a little modification to the above statement; Neutral true dragons include Steel,DoF TomeDraMag343 (both usually LN), MistDoF (TN), SandSand and FangDrac (both CN) dragons, and that's not counting the various planar true dragons.

[Mastikator]

I think they should be metals with the most possible distinct colors. So having silver iron quicksilver and other grey metals doesn't work. I think they chose those 5 because they are mostly different colors.
But......... brass, bronze and copper all have the same color. The three dragons look the same color, at least to me.

[Laughing Dog]

Brass tends to be a brighter yellow, more like gold (so them both having the same elemental breath weapon even fits!). It also cuts very easily. Bronze is more a reddish-orange yellowish-orange and does not like being cut. At all:smallannoyed:.
Coincidentally, I house rule that Brass dragons DR is 5 weaker against piercing/slashing weapons.

Edit: Misremembered bronze and copper's colors.

[Millstone85]

But......... brass, bronze and copper all have the same color. The three dragons look the same color, at least to me.The 5e MM seems to have gone for bicolored dragons:

Brass dragon is yellow and brown.
Bronze dragon is yellow and green.
Gold dragon is yellow and orange.

[D&D_Fan]

It must stand that some Metallic dragons are hybrids of others, due to being alloys.

Bronze Dragon would be descended from Copper Dragon and Tin Dragon, whereas Brass Dragon would be descended from Copper and Zinc.

If we want to simplify things, Alloy dragons probably shouldn't be a thing, sorry Bronze and Brass :/

This changes the lineup to:

Copper Dragon - Electric Breath
Gold Dragon - Fire Breath
Silver Dragon - Cold Breath
Tin Dragon - ??? Breath
Zinc Dragon - ??? Breath

Tin and Zinc Dragons aren't really established much, idk what they would do.

If we go only with the pure substances though, Chromium, Cobalt, Nickel, Mercury, Platinum and Tungsten would still work, but Steel and Adamantium wouldn't, nor would Electrum. An Adamant dragon could replace Adamantium maybe?

Except we ought to scratch Chromium, Cobalt, Nickel, and Tungsten, those are pretty modern metals to work with iiuc. How would a fantasy-medieval society know what those were, even with magic.

[TyGuy]

This thread is so cool. I was just having these thoughts a week ago. I was brainstorming dragon lore and thinking about old lore and how I'd adapt it for my setting.
I like, and want to go with the lore that dragons started out as gods, and were given the option to create servants by giving up a part of themselves. And their powerful dragon creations did the same, until dragons devolved to what they are today. The last splits being Bahamut into the metalics and Tiamat too far into the chromatics and then reconstituted back into tiamat.

But when thinking about the metals, it did dawn on me that there's alloys and a lot of copper at that. There's the asymmetry of no poison that's always felt a little off as well. For me I think it's a lost cause because I've already used a bronze and I don't want to put too much effort into this side lore.

Having distinctive colors is a good point too. To that point, I think the metals I would choose with color considerations in mind would be gold, silver, copper, adamantine (greenish), iron/steel (duller darker gray than silver and red/rust accents)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Framing this consideration to focus on metallics ignores a similar problem with chromatics: red and blue are primary colors, green is a secondary color, and black and white are shades (or tints?) and not true colors by some definitions.
Which are bad definitions, because black and white (or their equivalents) are the first two colors every language names. Red is third, followed by blue and green.



Where are the remaining color wheel dragons? Or visible spectrum dragons? Or infrared dragons? Or fluorescent dragons? Neon? LED?

Ow, my brain.

The color wheel and the visible spectrum cover essentially the same colors. Pick one or the other. (I recommend color wheel—magenta isn't on the visible spectrum.)
Infrared is, in a sense, a color. It would look black, because we can't see infrared, but this is still...okay, I guess.
"Fluorescent" isn't a color, it's the property of emitting light after absorbing electromagnetic radiation.
Neon isn't a color, it's an element that works well in gas discharge lamps.
LED isn't a color, it's a device that produces light.




In D&D lead blocks magic.
Dragons are magical creatures.
That is why the lead dragon is a {censored} idea, given the inherent contradiction.
Weight/mass/density has BFA to do with it.
False God's point aside, lead doesn't consistently block magic. It blocks a few spells, that's it. Lead is as effective at stopping magic as it is at stopping Superman—and you don't see crooks using lead bullets against him, do you? No, they use Kryptonite bullets!

...I mean, I guess they use lead bullets, but it's not very effective. He seems more worried when they throw the gun.



I think they should be metals with the most possible distinct colors. So having silver iron quicksilver and other grey metals doesn't work. I think they chose those 5 because they are mostly different colors.
Which is why they chose three copper alloys.

(If you think iron, lead, and silver all have the same color, you've clearly never seen iron or lead.)

[Zombimode]

As you can see, brass dragons got a bit shortchanged without a damaging breath weapon whilst gold was left as the only good dragon without a way to incapacitate/hinder opponents without killing them.

That's not quite true. At least it was before 3e that brass dragons got a damage dealing breath weapon. At least in my printing of the 2e Monster Manual brass dragon have the option to breath a "hot desert wind" - probably being affected by fire resistence/immunity but I can see munchkins on either side of the screen arguing otherwise :smallamused:

[Mastikator]

The 5e MM seems to have gone for bicolored dragons:

Brass dragon is yellow and brown.
Bronze dragon is yellow and green.
Gold dragon is yellow and orange.


I mean, you say that but when I look at the pictures I get when I do a web search on copper, bronze and brass dragons I know I wouldn't be able to tell them apart if the labels were removed.
The difference between copper and bronze is just tiny, the difference between red and blue, or green and gold, or silver and white even are big. They are distinct. Copper, brass and bronze are only subtly different.

Not to mention that brass is superfluous, we don't need a second fire metallic dragon. We need a poison metallic dragon.

[Imbalance]

Ow, my brain.

Is that a malfunction of your drollness detector? Better shut it down before I ask for eclipse, moonshadow, and umbra dragons. Really, there should be a whole range of darkness dragons...

[Millstone85]

I mean, you say that but when I look at the pictures I get when I do a web search on copper, bronze and brass dragons I know I wouldn't be able to tell them apart if the labels were removed.
The difference between copper and bronze is just tiny, the difference between red and blue, or green and gold, or silver and white even are big. They are distinct. Copper, brass and bronze are only subtly different.What I am saying is that the 5e MM artificially created a difference.

Look at these two dragons:https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/b/b7/Monster_Manual_5e_-_Dragon%2C_Bronze_-_p107.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/500
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/6/6d/Monster_Manual_5e_-_Dragon%2C_Copper_-_p110.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/500
They are not colored the same at all. One is bright yellow with green stripes, while the other is a reddish brown.

Now, the metals they are supposed to represent both come in various shades of yellow and brown, and can both become green through oxidation, so there is no guessing which one is which.

But well, the book tells us that the first one is a bronze dragon and the second is a copper dragon.

[D&D_Fan]

As it turns out, a Chromium would not in fact be anachronistic. It was used in alloys back in Ancient Persia IRL, good news for the Chromium Dragon.

Looking through a few sources, it also gets called the Chrome dragon. It has an ability of 'crystallizing breath' (through cold damage) but it also has a flesh to crystal ability. It also has clumsy flight for some reason.

The only problem is that it looks and acts notably similar to the silver dragon. Same color, same ability, only difference is in alignment. They're chaotic evil.

[Metastachydium]

As it turns out, a Chromium would not in fact be anachronistic. It was used in alloys back in Ancient Persia IRL, good news for the Chromium Dragon.

Nor would be a cupronickel ("white copper") dragon, technically (known and available IRL since Chinese Antiquity).

[D&D_Fan]

Also worth note is that the D&D world has a lot of metals, probably more than real life. Quickiron exists in D&D, it's sometimes called Djezet. I think a Quickiron dragon wouldn't be that improbable. Same with alloy dragons. A Glaucite Dragon would probably exist as the offspring of an Adamant Dragon and an Iron Dragon, Glaucite being an alloy of Iron and Adamant.

[hamishspence]

What I am saying is that the 5e MM artificially created a difference.

That copper dragons skew toward the red end of the range and bronze dragons skew toward toward the yellow end of the range, goes right back to 3.0.

3e, 4e (excepting the green dragon which has a slightly different head shape) and 5e all have the same physical shapes for all the main metallic and chromatic dragons - wing shape, head shape, horn shape, etc - all are consistent. 3.0 set the standard dragon shapes (in 2e a lot of them looked quite a bit different from the way they look now), and every later edition has used those shapes.

The bronze dragon has a radically different wing structure from any other dragon (the "little finger" is the long, wing-supporting one, and the fingers between the little finger and the thumb are short and webbed).

[Cikomyr2]

Ok. Silly opinion, but i feel DnD should go back to a Many vs 1 breakdown of Evil vs. good.

Basically, many species of chromatic dragons, and one specie of Metallic dragon. That metallic dragon happens to get different tints based off of the dragon 's personality and environment (so it can look oxidated copper, bronze, golden, silvery.. some angelic can be platinum). They are of one kin, divided by their choices and environment, where the Chromatic dragons are divided and violent against each others.

Seems.. thematically fitting.

[wilphe]

Hmm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_chemical_element_discoveries


You have Copper, Brass and Bronze dragons because Copper is the first native metal to be used and Brass and Bronze (even if ancient cultures did not distinguish the two very well) are the two earliest alloys.

All three are therefore fundamental to civilisation and that gives them great symbolic and mythic resonance


Lead might be an early metal but it is base, ignoble, magically inert and generally the opposite of draconic ideals. This is why there aren't any lead dragons.


Gold and Silver - They have their symbolism too


Iron - might not be as bad as lead, but symbolises the destruction of wild places and its essentially plebeian because of its abundance.

Bronze is a metal of aristocratic heroes; Iron is the weapon of the anonymous and uniform ranks of a mass army

Dragons - more elitist than any human noble and often able to trace their lineage back beyond the dawn of human history will want nothing to do with it

And if there are iron dragons they are LE conquerors

Tin These are rare and live far away at the ends of the earth

[Mastikator]

Hmm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_chemical_element_discoveries


You have Copper, Brass and Bronze dragons because Copper is the first native metal to be used and Brass and Bronze (even if ancient cultures did not distinguish the two very well) are the two earliest alloys.

All three are therefore fundamental to civilisation and that gives them great symbolic and mythic resonance


Lead might be an early metal but it is base, ignoble, magically inert and generally the opposite of draconic ideals. This is why there aren't any lead dragons.


Gold and Silver - They have their symbolism too


Iron - might not be as bad as lead, but symbolises the destruction of wild places and its essentially plebeian because of its abundance.

Bronze is a metal of aristocratic heroes; Iron is the weapon of the anonymous and uniform ranks of a mass army

Dragons - more elitist than any human noble and often able to trace their lineage back beyond the dawn of human history will want nothing to do with it

And if there are iron dragons they are LE conquerors

Tin These are rare and live far away at the ends of the earth

OK now I'm definitely adding lead dragons to my eberron game, breath weapon is poison or anti-magic field. No shape change, gets advantage vs magic instead. No magical aptitude. Regional effect is that magic is weaker. Lair action is dispel magic.

[D&D_Fan]

Realistically, Lead Dragons should be immune to the following effects:

Telepathy, blocked by having a lead skull in 5e
X-Ray Vision, blocked by 1 inch of lead
Radiation derived damage and Radiation Sickness status, blocked by lead lining
Immune to most Divination spells, also blocked by lead barriers
Detect Magic, also blocked by a thin sheet of lead
NOT immune to illusion, some illusion spells such as Illusory Text explicitly require lead ink

[Cikomyr2]

Realistically, Lead Dragons should be immune to the following effects:

Telepathy, blocked by having a lead skull in 5e
X-Ray Vision, blocked by 1 inch of lead
Radiation derived damage and Radiation Sickness status, blocked by lead lining
Immune to most Divination spells, also blocked by lead barriers
Detect Magic, also blocked by a thin sheet of lead
NOT immune to illusion, some illusion spells such as Illusory Text explicitly require lead ink


It is the natural enemy of radium dragon who halves in size every 1600 years