How many auras can you have running, stacking?

[Max Caysey]

As on the tin my follows…

I’m thinking about trying to make a follower that has as many auras as possible. This is thought experiment, but still might come in hands in the future!

I know of Marshal, Dragon Shaman and Dragon Lord, are there any other classes that gives an aura?

Also, I haven’t been able to figure out what kind of bonus Dragon Shaman and Dragon Lord is… it would be cool to know if they stacked! I know Marshal is circumstance.

Also the feat dragon aura mentioned that your bonus increases due based on class levels. But what if you have no class levels but high number of racial HD? Would that also increase the bonus given by this feat?

Cheers!!!

[Darg]

Class levels are class levels. Hit die are hit die. There are moments where they overlap, but are not the same. Even the savage species progression for monster classes is only for treating them as class levels, not that they are.

Draconic auras stack as they are untyped bonuses. So 6 dragon shaman won't step on each other's toes just because of bonus type.

[pabelfly]

Divine Mind also gives out auras.

There's also a feat that temporarily doubles aura size, Dilate Aura, which would be handy for an NPC character using auras to support the team.

[Inevitability]

Level 3 paladins get an aura that provides a bonus on saves vs Fear: the three UA variants have different takes on the concept (CG gives a bonus on saves vs compulsion, LE gives enemies -2 saving throws, and CE gives enemies -1 on AC).

[Max Caysey]

Class levels are class levels. Hit die are hit die. There are moments where they overlap, but are not the same. Even the savage species progression for monster classes is only for treating them as class levels, not that they are.

Draconic auras stack as they are untyped bonuses. So 6 dragon shaman won't step on each other's toes just because of bonus type.

So, would say a dragon with 10 racial HD and 2 levels of Dragon Shaman be able to take Double Draconic Aura Feat?

Cheers!

[Darg]

So, would say a dragon with 10 racial HD and 2 levels of Dragon Shaman be able to take Double Draconic Aura Feat?

Cheers!

Yes. Character level is a combination of your monster HD and class levels. However, your aura strength is based on class levels. On the other hand thanks to Dragon Magic, dragons can pick an aura in place of a known spell with the bonus equal to half the level of the forsaken spell. So 0 benefit with 1st level spell and +4 with a 9th level spell.

Also to add to the list of auras: Blackguard has the aura of despair (-2 saves) and enlightened spirit has the aura of menace (-2 hit, AC, and saves until hit)

[Halrax]

You probably already know this, but without Double Draconic Aura only one aura can be manifested at a time, even if they come from different sources or have different strengths.

Also, I believe a Marshal can choose an effect of a draconic aura in place of a major aura, but I think it's generally not worth it though it should count as being the Marshal's major aura instead of a draconic aura for stacking more than one at once.

Other than draconic auras, marshal's major and minor auras, paladin's auras, and divine mind's aura (which have already been listed) and the Dilate Aura feat (from Fiendish Codex II) I'm not aware of any other specific auras, though there may be creatures or prestige classes I've missed.

There are other teammate boosting abilities like certain soulmelds (Bluesteel Bracers and Lucky Dice come to mind), buffing spells/SLAs/etc., and even the aid another action, and at some point you're going to have to decide the complexity you're willing to add to the game for a follower, especially since auras have a range and usually end if the source is unconscious so you can't just add the bonuses to the party's character sheets and pretend the follower doesn't exist otherwise.

What's the acceptable cheese level? The fact that you're able to have Leadership (or some other method of gaining a follower like Dragon Cohort) implies it's a fairly high powered campaign, but the fact you're going for auras instead of effectively making a second character says that there's still a limit.

You could look at psicrystal/animal companion/special mount handbooks to see what feat combos there are (like the Draconic Aurax2, Dragontouched, Double Draconic Aura combo or the Shape Soulmeld/Open __ Chakra combo), especially if the HD is high enough to give a lot of feats or to unlock feats with HD prerequisites.

[pabelfly]

You probably already know this, but without Double Draconic Aura only one aura can be manifested at a time, even if they come from different sources or have different strengths

Never heard of that before, where can I read up on the ruling for this?

Also, this thread tackles the same problem and has a few new aura sources I haven't seen mentioned on here:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?621685-3-5-How-Many-Auras

[Halrax]

Never heard of that before, where can I read up on the ruling for this?
Dragon Magic, page 86, Draconic Auras, paragraph 3. "Projecting a draconic aura is a swift action, and you can only project one draconic aura at a time."
Plus there's the logic that if you could project draconic auras from different sources at a time the Double Draconic Aura feat would be fairly limited in use. Though that rule obviously doesn't apply to any other auras, and a DM could go against the RAW if they wanted to (though since it's a follower instead of the PC themselves there's no real need to raise the power ceiling even higher).

[pabelfly]

Dragon Magic, page 86, Draconic Auras, paragraph 3. "Projecting a draconic aura is a swift action, and you can only project one draconic aura at a time."
Plus there's the logic that if you could project draconic auras from different sources at a time the Double Draconic Aura feat would be fairly limited in use. Though that rule obviously doesn't apply to any other auras, and a DM could go against the RAW if they wanted to (though since it's a follower instead of the PC themselves there's no real need to raise the power ceiling even higher).

Ah okay. I thought you were talking about different aura types outside of Draconic Aura, so thanks for clarifying.

[Max Caysey]

Dragon Magic, page 86, Draconic Auras, paragraph 3. "Projecting a draconic aura is a swift action, and you can only project one draconic aura at a time."
Plus there's the logic that if you could project draconic auras from different sources at a time the Double Draconic Aura feat would be fairly limited in use. Though that rule obviously doesn't apply to any other auras, and a DM could go against the RAW if they wanted to (though since it's a follower instead of the PC themselves there's no real need to raise the power ceiling even higher).

It seems quite odd that if you have multiple classes all giving you a class ability that allows projecting a draconic aura, that they essentially have one of their class abilities annulles by another class, because of that...

[Halrax]

It seems quite odd that if you have multiple classes all giving you a class ability that allows projecting a draconic aura, that they essentially have one of their class abilities annulles by another class, because of that...

Well, having another Draconic Aura type means you can now choose that type instead. It's sort of like adding to spells known but not number of spell slots. And if you get Double Draconic Aura having more types means the number of pairs you can have increases quadratically, though you'll probably have an "in-combat" pair and an "out-of-combat" pair, with other auras being for edge cases.

[eBarbarossa]

Heraldic Crest: Inspiration is a magic shield enhancement from Forge of War that permanently doubles all your aura ranges and allows you a prayer effect once per day. Much better than Dilate Aura.

[Gruftzwerg]

A few martial stances from Tome of Battle are auras. But you can only have one martial stance (from TOB) active (some classes/prc can have 2 martial stances from ToB).

[ichiz3r0]

Dragon Magic, page 86, Draconic Auras, paragraph 3. "Projecting a draconic aura is a swift action, and you can only project one draconic aura at a time."
Plus there's the logic that if you could project draconic auras from different sources at a time the Double Draconic Aura feat would be fairly limited in use. Though that rule obviously doesn't apply to any other auras, and a DM could go against the RAW if they wanted to (though since it's a follower instead of the PC themselves there's no real need to raise the power ceiling even higher).

So what I understand according to Dragon magic the line you quoted is only part of its effect and uses. Yes a marshal ,ay choose to sub a major aura for a draconic aura; but it also states that when doing so the draconic aura (on page 86-87 I add 87 cause the description starts on 86 but the auras them selves are on 87) follows the rules and effects of a marshals major aura. Because of this it is treated as both a major aura and a draconic aura as well for all effects that apply such auras like double draconic aura.

With that the substitution aura meets half the requirements for double draconic aura; all you need do is take draconic aura feat and choose an aura through that or you can take a level into dragon lord or dragon shaman to gain the ability to project draconic auras. After that you can project 2 draconic auras ( the sub aura and the feat aura or aura from class abilities) on top of the marshals standard 1 major aura allotment. How ever as far as what you can substitute for major auras it says that you can choose an aura to replaces from the list of auras on page 86-87 in the book meaning only the auras on that page are viable choices; the same goes for the feat to gain an aura.

By my recollection the feat aura does not interfere with a marshals auras at all because it is not a aura gained by a class feature.

Also every book that has a class that projects auras or something of the like in effect are not auras of the same type. For example a marshals minor and major auras are a non specified type while draconic auras are a specified typed hence why its called "draconic"; thus its classification as specified.

Then there are commander auras in the other miniatures book which is listed as a commander aura and allows you to project multiple auras (up to 3) at once. These are specified and according to rules do in fact stack with other auras. Then there is also the auras that can be projected by the marshal of battle class in dragon magazine issue 348 which I believe is also a separate class and not a variant(at least I don't recall it being a variant).

If I am wrong please do fill me in because everyone who made the same argument about them not stacking and being the same all around quote the same as you but leave out the rest which gives further clarification.

[Chronos]

Quoth Darg:

Draconic auras stack as they are untyped bonuses. So 6 dragon shaman won't step on each other's toes just because of bonus type.
Untyped bonuses still don't stack if they're from the same source. So if the 6 dragon shamans are all using Draconic Senses, say, then only the best one will work.

It's worth noting that the Divine Mind can eventually (at 10th and 20th level) use two or even three psychic auras at once. The 20th level ability would mean missing out on all the other classes with auras, but you might be able to get the 10th level one, since most of the aura-granting classes come online fairly quickly.

There's also a PrC from Complete Champion, Mythic Exemplar, that gives you progression of a class's aura abilities, if you choose Reikhardt (as well as also giving you a bit of bardic music). Unfortunately, it looks like it only advances one class that way, and only by +1, so you're probably better off just continuing with your base class(es).

[ichiz3r0]

Untyped bonuses still don't stack if they're from the same source. So if the 6 dragon shamans are all using Draconic Senses, say, then only the best one will work.

It's worth noting that the Divine Mind can eventually (at 10th and 20th level) use two or even three psychic auras at once. The 20th level ability would mean missing out on all the other classes with auras, but you might be able to get the 10th level one, since most of the aura-granting classes come online fairly quickly.

There's also a PrC from Complete Champion, Mythic Exemplar, that gives you progression of a class's aura abilities, if you choose Reikhardt (as well as also giving you a bit of bardic music). Unfortunately, it looks like it only advances one class that way, and only by +1, so you're probably better off just continuing with your base class(es).


The only 2 problems with taking Mythic exemplar.

1st is the requirments mainly the special #2 specifically. page 86. It says you must be a member of
The disciples og legend.

2nd problem is the investment to get to the point you can get that +1 lvl bonus effect. Its 3 levels
and you have to take that 3rd lvl that into the class at the right moment where it is most beneficial.


Given as how many levels are needed to invest it really is not worth the investment for that one thing especially since the BaB and the saves advancements ( 2 1 1 1 by 3rd lvl) are not worth it.

The +1 lvl to an existing caster class may be worth it; but chances are if you are just going the aura route it may very well be just a waste of 3 lvls. Bard on the other hand I feel would benefit most from Reikhardt path once reaching 6th lvl in ME class since it allows your ME class lvls to stack with your Bard lvls.

From what I gather I think effeciencey is key when projecting the most amount of auras at one time. I'm not gonna lie the path of aura mastery is a headache but devastating once it is figured out.

[Chronos]

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that Mythic Exemplar was a good option. I was just mentioning it for the sake of completeness, because so far as I know it's the only thing that offers advancement of another class's aura abilities.

[Clause]

A lvl1 domain sorcerer(celestia), hellbreed race picking the mammon pact, and celestial lineage. You can have 3 auras ON at 1st level. Giving enemies a total -6 on their rolls. After that, you can grab some binder levels and take anima mage. Take vestiges wth auras, and paying feats like draconic aura and Double draconic aura. 2 Marshall levels, and feats for expanding and etc

[truemane]

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