Demigod Swords Bard build for Odyssey of the Dragonlords

[RogueJK]

My group is about to launch an Odyssey of the Dragonlords campaign (one of the more prominent 3rd party 5E campaign modules), which runs from Level 1-20. In addition to the new campaign setting, this module introduces several new races, one new subclass for each class, and Epic Path backgrounds in addition to the standard backgrounds.

My character has the Demigod epic path, which involves being the child of the God of War and a mortal Bard mother. War God + Bard sounds like a Swords Bard to me!

Stat spread is a more heroic 15/15/14/12/12/10.

I plan on dipping 1 level in Demigod Sorcerer at Character Level 2, going Bard 1 -> Demigod Sorcerer 1 -> Swords Bard X. This not only fits thematically, but also lets me use CHA for attack/damage on melee weapons (similar to a Hexblade), plus gets me STR saving throw proficiency, Advantage on CHA checks involving gods (of which there reportedly will be many encounters), 4x CHA-based cantrips for added utility and ranged attacks, and 2x 1st level spells (likely Shield and Absorb Elements), along with a free casting of Shield of Faith and Thunderous Smite each Short Rest. As a result, I'll be CHA-SAD, and a bit tankier than usual thanks to the Shield spell and Shield of Faith.

I will most likely be taking the Custom Lineage race, putting the +2 in CHA and grabbing a feat at 1st level.


From there, I'm stuck on a few things, the biggest being: Do I go Dueling or TWF? I know the consensus is that TWF is rarely ever worth it, but TWF seems to be less bad on a Swords Bard, who don't normally get shield proficiency anyway and don't have as many uses for their Bonus Action as many other classes/subclasses.

Here's my thought process:

Dueling
-The "optimal" choice
-Can use a shield for +2 AC by taking the Moderately Armored feat at Level 1, which also means I won't have to wait until Character Level 4 (Sorcerer 1/Bard 3) to be able to wear Medium Armor. I could have a 18 AC from the start at Level 1, and eventually hit 19 AC before items/magic/abilities.
-Not many uses for Bonus Action, and I hate leaving action economy on the table (most Bardic Inspiration will be used to power Blade Flourishes, leaving only the occasional BA spell)

Two Weapon Fighting
-More reliable Bonus Action uses
-Lower AC, due to lack of shield proficiency; AC from Level 1-3 would be a mere 14-15, then bumping to 16 at Character Level 4 (Sorcerer 1/Bard 3) and eventually topping out at 17 before items/magic/abilities.
-Doesn't require a Feat to fully capitalize on like Sword-and-Board Dueling, but could still take Dual Wielder feat at Level 1 for a +1 AC bump, dual Longswords instead of Short Swords, and quick-drawing of both weapons (potentially useful for the casting/weapon juggle)
-Allows for an alternate feat at Level 1 with Custom Lineage, such as Inspiring Leader, which would result in pumping out a ton of Temp HP for the party over the course of the campaign, or even something like Mobile for hit-and-run tactics with my 50' movement
-Allows for a different race than Custom Lineage, since I won't need a feat at Level 1 as much, which could open up stuff like going Eladrin/Shadar-Kai and grabbing Elven Accuracy for my CHA-based attacks
-2x attacks starting at Level 1, with full offhand damage starting at Character Level 4 (Bard 3), which would help bridge the gap in my delayed Extra Attack that won't come online until Character Level 7 (Sorcerer 1/Bard 6)
-Eventual access to 3x attacks, which would seem to eventually pair well with melee-damage-boosting Magical Secrets picks like Crusader's Mantle or Tenser's Transformation


I'm currently leaning towards Moderately Armored + Dueling. The other party members are still finalizing their PCs, but it appears that my Swords Bard may be one of the only frontliners (if not the only frontliner), so I would likely benefit from the added AC from Shield proficiency + Medium Armor starting from Level 1. And I could boost my AC even further at times, utilizing Defensive Flourish and/or the Shield spell, for mid-to-upper 20s AC bursts.

This build could look something like this:
Custom Lineage
Bard 1 -> Demigod Sorcerer 1 -> Swords Bard X
STR 10
DEX 14
CON 15
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 15+2
AC of 18 with Breastplate, Shield, and Longsword
ASIs: Moderately Armored (15 DEX) at Level 1, Fey Touched (18 CHA) at Bard 4, Resilient CON (16 CON) at Bard 8, 20 CHA at Bard 12, Inspiring Leader at Bard 16, 18 CON at Bard 19.


What are your thoughts? How would you build it?

[follacchioso]

As a note, you need a free hand to cast Shield, Absorb Elements, and most attack cantrips, unless you have the Warcaster feat. So you may want to pick that up at some point, given that both DWF and Dueling require both hands full.

Swords Bards are very fragile front liners. They can do good damage but they have lower AC and HP than specialized frontline classes melee fighters. You don't have access to the Defense Fighting Style, cannot use a shield (without feats) or the Shield spell (without Warcaster) and you will only have access to a limited number of Flourishes every combat.
You are going to rely on Healing Word heavily to heal yourself, potentially every round. Some of the spells you listed, like Shield of Faith and Thunderous Smite, also require a Bonus Action. So, I would go with Dueling because your BAs will be busy doing other things.

You also need a way to teleport yourself. Bards do not get access to Misty Step, so either Fey Touched or Eladrin are good options to cover that aspect.

Another difficult thing for a Swords Bard is that the list of spells is not really suited to support a melee fighter - not at the level of Bladesingers, at least. Many times you will have to choose between using your action to cast a spell, or to attack using your weapons. So, don't focus all your build on weapon fighting, as it will not be the only thing you do on the battlefield.

[RogueJK]

Thanks for the feedback.

I had definitely intended to take Fey Touched (if I didn't go the TWF Shadar-Kai/Eladrin option), to pick up both Misty Step and either Bless or Dissonant Whispers. Misty Step has saved my bacon multiple times, especially when playing gishy frontliners.

Luckily, my DM tends to handwave the spell components, to make it easier on gishes. I had considered taking Warcaster in lieu of Resilient CON anyway, to allow for things like Booming Blade OAs, ending up with 14 CON and 15+1 DEX instead. But I think I'd rather have 16 CON, and since the campaign goes all the way to 20, Resilient ends up being the better Concentration boost option in upper tiers.

I'm certainly concerned with the squishiness... I hadn't intended to be the only/primary frontliner. A couple of the PCs are still in the works, so we'll see what shakes out there. If I truly end up being the lone frontliner, I may end up going PalaBard instead. This still fits the "War+Bard" theme, but would boost my melee damage output a bit thanks to Smite, alleviate the need to invest in the Moderately Armored feat. I'll go ahead and work up that backup character, and wait and see what the final party composition ends up looking like. I have two paths in mind for this route:


The more basic Palabard version would also give us at least one STR-focused PC (often handy), and still give me access to 9th level spells and 9th level Magical Secrets, but would remove the sweet CHA-SAD component, along with access to the Shield spell.
Variant Human
Paladin 2 -> Swords Bard 18
STR 15+1
DEX 12
CON 15
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 14+1
ASIs: Fey Touched (16 CHA) at 1, 18 STR at Bard 4, Resilient CON (16 CON) at Bard 8, 18 CHA at Bard 12, 20 CHA at Bard 16
Fighting Styles: Defense from Paladin, Dueling from Swords Bard


Or, I could go with a more complicated Palabard multiclass that focused primarily on landing big nova hits, at the cost of never casting spells higher than 4th level spells (though I'd have up to 7th level slots):
Custom Lineage
Paladin 1 -> Demigod Sorcerer 1 -> Paladin 2 -> Whispers Bard 5 -> Devotion Paladin 14
STR 15
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 15+2
ASIs: Fey Touched (18 CHA) at 1, Great Weapon Master at Bard 4 (7), Warcaster at Paladin 4 (10), 20 CHA at Paladin 8 (14), and then Inspiring Leader at Paladin 12 (18).
This would be able to make big Booming Blade/GWM/Smite/Psychic Blades attacks each turn for big damage, relying on Advantage or the Sacred Weapon Channel Divinity to offset the GWM penalty. And despite the triple-multiclass, I'd have rather steady progression from 1-20, gaining Smite at Level 3, Booming Blade scaling at Level 5, Psychic Blades quasi-smite at Level 8, opportunities for additional BA attacks at Level 7, short rest recharging Psychic Blades at Level 8, and eventually Extra Attack at Level 11 and Aura of Protection at Level 12.

Hits with a greatsword attack could be doing up to:
2d6+5 base damage
+10 GWM
+3d8 Booming Blade (plus 4d8 rider, if applicable)
+5d8 Divine Smite
+3d6 Psychic Blades

That's an average of 68.5 damage per hit, not counting the BB rider.

[follacchioso]

Well, Swords Bards are glass cannons, but it fits their character. They think they can charge into battle and destroy everything they can, but they forget that they can also be targeted. That's just what Bards are :-)

Does your DM allow the Ravnica / Strixhaven backgrounds? These could be a good way to get some extra spells without multiclassing. The Strixhaven initiate feat grants you Shield or Absorb Element, and a couple of cantrips.

Regarding when to multiclass, I would consider how long is the campaign going to take in real life terms. The worst levels will be the ones where all the other martial have extra attack, and you are behind. If it is going to take 2 years of real life game to get to level 11, I would go with the other option instead.

In any case, it's going to be a fun character to play. Certainly frustrating at times, but that's what you have to deal with when you play with bards.

[RogueJK]

Does your DM allow the Ravnica / Strixhaven backgrounds?

Nope. No Dragonmarked/Ravnica/Strixhaven backgrounds or spells.



The worst levels will be the ones where all the other martial have extra attack, and you are behind.

While I agree that it's generally not ideal to get Extra Attack multiple levels late, Booming Blade's damage scaling, the GWM BA attack, and the sheer potential damage output on single hits would help bridge that gap. I've played melee frontline casters before that never got Extra Attack and relied solely on SCAGtrips, like a Celestial Warlock, Arcana Cleric, and Paladin 2/Sorcerer X, and while it sucked for your melee attacks to be all-or-nothing with a binary hit/miss on a turn, I never really felt severely behind the power curve, especially with various additional damage boosts and near-full spellcasting (where I was often doing things other than simply swinging a weapon). This seems like it would be quite similar, just with eventually getting the Extra Attack option.


But there's a third Palabard build path, which would split the difference between the two potential builds I listed above:
Custom Lineage
Paladin 1 -> Demigod Sorcerer 1 -> Paladin 2 -> Swords Bard 17.
STR 15
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 15+2
ASIs: Fey Touched (18 CHA) at 1, Warcaster at Bard 4 (7), 20 CHA at Bard 8 (11), Inspiring Leader at Bard 12 (15), and then something like Lucky at Bard 16 (19).
Heavy Armor, Longsword, and Shield
Fighting Styles: Defense at Paladin 2; Dueling at Bard 3.

This gets Extra Attack at Level 9, retains the CHA-based melee, and eventually gains 9th level spells, at the cost of the Paladin subclass abilities and that sweet Aura of Protection. It also allows access to Find Greater Steed via Magical Secrets at a reasonable Level 13, same level as a single-classed Paladin. Not quite as much nova damage as the GWM Whispers Palabard, but has higher potential AC and better spellcasting progression in return, along with less of a delay to Extra Attack. I could still lean on Booming Blade to tide me over from Levels 5 through 8 (on turns when I don't plan to attempt to use a Blade Flourish), and then relegate it to Warcaster OA use once Extra Attack comes online at Level 9. I think it's an overall more well-rounded character, which is kinda the point of a Bard...

[Lallo lallo]

But there's a third Palabard build path, which would split the difference between the two potential builds I listed above:
Custom Lineage
Paladin 1 -> Demigod Sorcerer 1 -> Paladin 2 -> Swords Bard 17.



Hi, I found your thread while looking for advice. I am playing something really similar to you: my character has the Demigod path, we started recently at lvl 3 and since there was already a Paladin in the party I opted to go Paladin 1 / Demigod Sorcerer 1 / Bard 1 with the idea to go Bard Swords 6 to get extra attack and then take Paladin 2. From there am not really sure (probably Bard 12 or Sorcerer 6-7, since our campaign will end at lvl 15).

I was curious which build did you choose at the end and what are you're impression about it?

[RogueJK]

None of the above. Our party ended up with a Bard anyway, so I just went Paladin 1 -> Demigod Sorcerer 1 -> Oath of the Dragonlords Paladin X. Basically like a standard Hexadin, just dipping Demigod Sorcerer instead of Hexblade Warlock.

[Witty Username]

All well that ends well, but my 2 cents.

TWF is pretty nice for swords bards, as warcaster is good and straight swords bard isn't going to be using incompatible weapons or shields, deuling is generally out performed by it but not by much, multiclassing for a shield, deuling, past that TWF or personal preference.

Swords bard is not so much fragile so much as short term. Defensive florish is really good at keeping ones self alive, the tricky part is that it won't last long and competes for inspiration. This means frontlining in context and have stuff to do when it isn't tenable. Or multiclass paladin or hexblade and ignore that problem.

[Lallo lallo]

None of the above. Our party ended up with a Bard anyway, so I just went Paladin 1 -> Demigod Sorcerer 1 -> Oath of the Dragonlords Paladin X. Basically like a standard Hexadin, just dipping Demigod Sorcerer instead of Hexblade Warlock.

Well, **** ahahah

That build is way more simple and functional than the alternatives you posted; if there weren't a paladin already I would had done the same thing but Half-Elf Paladin Vengeance 6 / Demigod Sorcerer 9, since the level 6 feature of the demigod sound really powerful.

Anyway I hope you are having fun with the game ^^

[Lallo lallo]

All well that ends well, but my 2 cents.

TWF is pretty nice for swords bards, as warcaster is good and straight swords bard isn't going to be using incompatible weapons or shields, dueling is generally out performed by it but not by much, multiclassing for a shield, dueling, past that TWF or personal preference.

Swords bard is not so much fragile so much as short term. Defensive flourish is really good at keeping ones self alive, the tricky part is that it won't last long and competes for inspiration. This means frontlining in context and have stuff to do when it isn't tenable. Or multiclass paladin or hexblade and ignore that problem.

I totally agree, it is my first Bard so I am looking fore advice, especially since it is a strange build with a lot of delay on extra attack (I am still considering if it is worth to take it or to play all campaign with booming blade and maybe go Creation or Eloquence Bard).
I am mostly sure to go Dueling since I have already a lot of option for the Bonus Action (Thunderous Smite and Shield of Faith both free once per short rest, Misty Step taken with Fey Touched and Healing Word) and since I started Paladin I have shields' proficiency.

As you said, the big problem and annoyance of the class is that the flourishes compete with inspiration and if you have a lot of fight the dice are really few.

We are at lvl 3 at the moment and the build is fun to play and has a lot of options to take in combat but I am worried about the future, especially the lvl 5-8 range.

[Rukelnikov]

I totally agree, it is my first Bard so I am looking fore advice, especially since it is a strange build with a lot of delay on extra attack (I am still considering if it is worth to take it or to play all campaign with booming blade and maybe go Creation or Eloquence Bard).
I am mostly sure to go Dueling since I have already a lot of option for the Bonus Action (Thunderous Smite and Shield of Faith both free once per short rest, Misty Step taken with Fey Touched and Healing Word) and since I started Paladin I have shields' proficiency.

As you said, the big problem and annoyance of the class is that the flourishes compete with inspiration and if you have a lot of fight the dice are really few.

We are at lvl 3 at the moment and the build is fun to play and has a lot of options to take in combat but I am worried about the future, especially the lvl 5-8 range.

Consider that at level 5 your inspiration starts recharging on a short rest, and you are not forced to use all of it for X or Y, you can use fourishes the turns you expect to be focused even if you had a high AC. It's especially good at protecting strong concentrations, coupled with Absorb Elements and Shield.