OneD&D: Warlock occultist, Sorcerous orphans

[BerzerkerUnit]

One DND and standardized subclasses, and how some storytelling can be built in-

So One DND is playing with the idea of standardizing subclass progression. I think this is good overall (though I detest some of the nuclear nerfs they've included in Bard and Rogue so far).

That aside, I think doing this for Warlock and Sorcerer presents an interesting story opportunity for players.

For warlocks, by rolling Pact Boon to 1 and Patron to 3 you automatically have a better story. Now you have a character that has acquired a strange relic or been contacted by a mysterious servant that lures them into occult mystery. It hands the player a call to adventure until they reach level 3 where they discover the true source of their power. Maybe this is even a make or break opportunity, the DM and player can set it up to where the character is forced to accept the patron in a moment of crisis or properly inducted into the deeper mysteries (as they learn spells beyond what mere initiates are capable of). The more I think about it, the more I like it. This format also presents 3 possible playstyles for PCs at level 1 making the warlock as or more versatile than most others.

For sorcerers this presents a similar opportunity. Players can define the source of their power at level 1 and lean hard into RP for it, then begin to realize the true power of their heritage at level 3. Alternatively they may discover their power comes from a completely different source. Or they could start their adventures being a mystery to themselves, an orphan of unclear origin until they develop scales or dance on the wind.

Anyway, these are my thoughts on a possible update. Clearly we won't know how locks and the like will function until the UA drops, but I have high hopes.

I’m interested in the community’s thoughts.

[Psyren]

I’m interested in the community’s thoughts.

My thought is that you're extrapolating from three classes that got their subclass at 3rd level in 5e getting it at 3rd level in 1DD, and concluding that every class must be that way; we don't yet have enough data to reach that conclusion.

I can't definitively speak for Warlock, they can be a bit more mutable - but there is next to zero chance that Clerics and Sorcerers have to wait until 3rd to get their subclass at 3. All their power comes from the same source as their subclass fluffwise; It's not like, say, a Bard where you start learning magic first and then pick your major once you enroll at Julliard :smallsmile:

[animorte]

My thought is that you're extrapolating from three classes that got their subclass at 3rd level in 5e getting it at 3rd level in 1DD, and concluding that every class must be that way; we don't yet have enough data to reach that conclusion.

I can't definitively speak for Warlock, they can be a bit more mutable - but there is next to zero chance that Clerics and Sorcerers have to wait until 3rd to get their subclass at 3. All their power comes from the same source as their subclass fluffwise; It's not like, say, a Bard where you start learning magic first and then pick your major once you enroll at Julliard :smallsmile:
I certainly hope subclasses at level 3 is standard for everyone. That would be cool. I actually think the OP gave a good example of why Sorcerers might not get theirs until then. You have discovered that there is some basic magic in your blood, but until you start to understand and use it through experience, you won’t unleash the deeper powers within.

As far as Clerics are concerned, I could imagine their dedication the church or divine studies might provide a basic understanding of divine powers, but until they have used and understood these powers through experience, they can’t choose a specific domain to pursue.

I know I’m stretching it a bit, but I’m trying to justify my hope that subclasses will begin at level 3 for everybody, not that many groups start at level 1 anyway.

[Psyren]

I know I’m stretching it a bit, but I’m trying to justify my hope that subclasses will begin at level 3 for everybody, not that many groups start at level 1 anyway.

While I can see value in some forms of standardization, this just feels like homogeneity for its own sake. For me, so long as classes are roughly balanced in terms of what they get across their first three levels, that's what matters - especially if your bold statement is true (and I largely agree with it) so it doesn't even matter whether there's a bit of disparity at level 1 in terms of subclass acquisition.

[BerzerkerUnit]

My thought is that you're extrapolating from three classes that got their subclass at 3rd level in 5e getting it at 3rd level in 1DD, and concluding that every class must be that way; we don't yet have enough data to reach that conclusion.

I can't definitively speak for Warlock, they can be a bit more mutable - but there is next to zero chance that Clerics and Sorcerers have to wait until 3rd to get their subclass at 3. All their power comes from the same source as their subclass fluffwise; It's not like, say, a Bard where you start learning magic first and then pick your major once you enroll at Julliard :smallsmile:

I believe JC said in the interview on DDB they were working on standardizing subclasses across the board.

Clerics are simple enough. They already have a variety of suitable features they could add in as a pool you choose from: Heavy armor, martial weapon, martial arts, or a pair of bonus skill proficiencies (for proselytizers or archivists or "wandering carpenter" types), or 1 floating skill/tool prof called Divine Inspiration that lets you change it up daily.. Add spells and you have all a L1 player really needs. At this point you worship (or maybe not even) but are not channeling a specific deity or domain until you are willing to dedicate yourself wholly to that power. If you want to RP you're already so dedicated, you use spell prep to prepare only those spells and when you hit L3 you are rewarded with more flexibility as your domain covers that dedicated focus without taxing your spell prep.

At L2 your Channel Divinity is only turn undead or spell recovery, and 3rd you get domain spells and the Domain spec'd channel.

[Garfunion]

For warlocks, by rolling Pact Boon to 1 and Patron to 3 you automatically have a better story. Now you have a character that has acquired a strange relic or been contacted by a mysterious servant that lures them into occult mystery. It hands the player a call to adventure until they reach level 3 where they discover the true source of their power.


I always felt that the warlocks pact boon should’ve been there initial starting ability that was granted upon entering the pact with an unknown entity. A cursed or ancient broken sword whispers to you granting its power, you save a small creature within the forest causing it to make a pact with you, or as a failing wizard you discovered an ancient tome placed within the wrong section of the library it’s pages filled with forbidden rituals that can grant you power. However I’m pretty sure this was done in order to prevent multiclass shenanigans.


On another note if they do streamline the archetype progression. It would allow them to actually create a prestige class system as well, that uses the archetype progression system. Allowing the player to choose a class archetype or a prestige class.

[Talionis]

One of the unimportant complexities of the game was trying to puzzle together different levels characters got abilities into a multiclass build. I don’t think it hurt non-optimizers.

That being said, Warlocks and Wizards getting an extra “subclass” ability at level one doesn’t hurt game balance so long as it’s balanced into the class at level one overall. I do agree that those two classes seem roleplay front loaded and some abilities tied to class choice make more sense at level one in the class.

[Damon_Tor]

I would expect that warlocks, sorcerers and clerics make their subclass selection at first level, but only get a very minor, ribbony feature from the subclass at that level.

[animorte]

I would expect that warlocks, sorcerers and clerics make their subclass selection at first level, but only get a very minor, ribbony feature from the subclass at that level.

If they stay at 1st level (which I don't prefer but certainly understand), then I certainly hope this is true. Front-loaded nonsense is just a bit wild. Or remove multi-classing altogether. But if they do that, we need a more diverse selection of subclasses. I'm not completely sold on this idea I just mentioned myself.

[Intregus182]

I hope they standardize subclass progression across all classes. It would make things like being a vampire, werewolf, or some pther universal subclass (or prestige classes from 3e or paragon from 4e) much easier to make.

"Oh your a wizard vampire no problem take the vampire subclass. Oh you all want to be vampires? No problem pick you race,class, and background as normal and at level 3 you all take the same subclass."

It just opens up more design that fits with the simplicity that 5e and 1D&D are aiming for.