Another questions on Bear Warrior

[Max Caysey]

So, looking at some ideas for a new character, I stumbles opun one of my old build ideas. The Bear Warrior. 8 years ago I discussed it here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?327233-Bear-Warrior%203.5)

I have a few more questions, that I didn't seem to adress in the post. At least I couldn't find it...

So, assuming the build is:

Bear Totem Barbarian 5
Predator variant Ranger 1, (with the Arcane Hunter, Solitary Hunter and Spiritual Connection ACF)
Martial Monk 1
Fist of the Forest 1
Bear Warrior 1
Warshaper 3

and that I have Improved Natural Attack (Claw and Bite), what would my damage dice be for my natural attacks in black bear form?


Cheers!

[Venger]

What are predator ranger, solitary hunter, and martial monk? What sources are they from and what do they do? If they affect your natural weapons in any way they may change the final numbers. As-is:

Black bear's claws normally deal 1d4, and its bite 1d6. Warshaper's morphic weapons moves each of those up one step. INA moves them up one more step.

Your base damage is thus 1d8 for claws and 2d6 for bite calculating your str mod (remembering to include +8 for black bear form) accordingly.

[YellowJohn]

Pretty sure the size increases to your natural weapons don't stack. Each allows you to treat it as though it were one size category larger, but like two ladders this only allows you to ascend one 'floor'.
Also note that Morphic Weapons takes a move action to turn on for each weapon, and would need to be activated anew each time you assume bear form. That's expensive in terms of action economy.

Anyway, none of the variant classes or ACF's you have chosen improve your natural attacks, so your claws would go from d4 to d6, and your bite from d6 to d8.
Your Unarmed Strike damage also deals d8 from Fist of the Forest.

[Venger]

Of course they do. You may be thinking of size increases, such as from enlarge person, which textually do not stack. Damage die increases that treat them as one size larger without changing your size stack normally.

[Max Caysey]

What are predator ranger, solitary hunter, and martial monk? What sources are they from and what do they do? If they affect your natural weapons in any way they may change the final numbers. As-is:

Black bear's claws normally deal 1d4, and its bite 1d6. Warshaper's morphic weapons moves each of those up one step. INA moves them up one more step.

Your base damage is thus 1d8 for claws and 2d6 for bite calculating your str mod (remembering to include +8 for black bear form) accordingly.

Thanks! That was the damage dice I concluded too!

Predator variant:
Lose: Combat style, improved combat style, combat style mastery.
Gain: Wild shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), fast movement (as barbarian).

Arcane Hunter: At 1st level, you do not select a favored enemy from Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, you can choose favored enemies as normal.
Benefit: At 1st level, you gain favored enemy (arcanists). This feature works just like the favored enemy ability. The bonuses granted apply to any character capable of casting arcane spells or using invocations (but not other spell-like abilities).

Solitary Hunting: A ranger who loses his faith also loses his most obvious blessing of nature: his animal companion. In return, though, he becomes even more self-reliant.
Level: 1st.
Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain your animal companion. If you already have an animal companion. it abandons you immediately.
Benefit: Your favored enemy bonus also applies to your attack rolls.

Spiritual Connection: You learn to speak with the spirits of the wild places. Although this ability does not automatically make such spirits well disposed toward you, it does provide several benefits.
Level: 1st.
Replaces: This benefit replaces the wild empathy class feature.
Benefit: You can use speak with animals and speak with plants, as the spells (caster level equals your ranger level). You can use any combination of these effects up to three times per day. These are spell-like abilities with caster level equal to your character level.

Natural Born Ranger:
Dwarf Ranger: The forge. The chisel. They held little appeal. When others talked of battles with giants you paid scant attention, already hatching strategies to help you face what you saw as the true threat.
These dwarf rangers lose stonecunning, their bonuses on Appraise and Craft checks, and their dodge bonus to AC against giants. In exchange, they gain a dodge bonus to AC against their favored enemies equal to half their bonuses on damage and skill checks. For instance, a dwarf ranger who has a +4 favored enemy bonus against aberrations gains a +2 dodge bonus to AC whenever he faces an aberration.


I think that was all of them!

[Troacctid]

Predator variant:
Lose: Combat style, improved combat style, combat style mastery.
Gain: Wild shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), fast movement (as barbarian).
I'm not surprised folks are confused by this one. I don't know where you got "Predator" from, but it's not what this variant is called in the book.

[Max Caysey]

I'm not surprised folks are confused by this one. I don't know where you got "Predator" from, but it's not what this variant is called in the book.

As you've no doubt have guessed... I am Morph...

Ahem, what I meant to say was that I got it from an online source. I would love to know from whence it came. :)

Cheers!

[holbita]

So you are going to be basically doing Brown Bear damage boosted 2 times (Improved Natural Attack and Morphic Weapons), so Bite 4d6 and Claws 3d6.

You should check the Beast Strike feat for this build though since you already have Improved Unarmed Strike.

And about predator ranger... the name is not official, but I really like these "fan names" that were given to the unearthed arcana variants (huntsman druid, adventurer rogue, etc.) they may not be canon but they are very useful to refer to those variants... if you talk with people that use the same resource you do... so make sure you are in that circle if you use them or instead go with their official names as it may bring confusion.

Also, regarding rages... I see a world where you can use your feral trance from "fist of the forest" to activate your bear form instead of the barbarian's rage. As they are both ragelike abilities. In that case you would get the bear form stat boosts and the ones from the rage you didn't use for bear form as well, I imagine you would be using feral trance for bear form... so brown bear + rage would translate into:

+20 STR, +2 DEX, +12 CON and then add to it all of the extra clauses from you rage and feral trance.

Edit: I just realized you are Bear Warrior 1, not gonna redo the post... but you ge the idea

[Max Caysey]

You should check the Beast Strike feat for this build though since you already have Improved Unarmed Strike.
Thanks… I did… would I be correct in my understanding that beast strike in effect double your grapple damage?

[Zombulian]

As you've no doubt have guessed... I am Morph...

Ahem, what I meant to say was that I got it from an online source. I would love to know from whence it came. :)

Cheers!

I also don’t know where the term “Predator” came from. It’s an unnamed variant from Unearthed Arcana in the “Other Variants” section of the class variant chapter. Around here we just call it Wild Shape Ranger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger).

[Paragon]

And since you get wildshape "as druid"
You probably need five levels of it

[Max Caysey]

And since you get wildshape "as druid"
You probably need five levels of it

Yeah... After reading it more carefully I do indeed. There is the caveat that you loose the abilities at the level you would normally get them and gain access to the other abilities when that class would normally get access to them, unless otherwise specifically mentioned. So the Wild Shape (Predator) variant is moot at this points. I think the other ACF is still online at level 1 ranger tho...

[YellowJohn]

Of course they do. You may be thinking of size increases, such as from enlarge person, which textually do not stack. Damage die increases that treat them as one size larger without changing your size stack normally.

*shrug* Agree to disagree on this one. I've not seen it interpreted that way when I was researching for my own Bear Warrior build, but whatever you can convince your DM to allow.

It's still worth noting that Morphic Weapons requires a move action to activate PER WEAPON (ie: 3 move actions for Claw/Claw/Bite), which is a really heavy action tax from your rounds/level rage duration.
Having Morphic Weapons up in advance will require shenanigans because;


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the warshaper
prestige class. The class features function only when the
warshaper is in a form other than her own
(emphasis mine)

[Max Caysey]

*shrug* Agree to disagree on this one. I've not seen it interpreted that way when I was researching for my own Bear Warrior build, but whatever you can convince your DM to allow.

It's still worth noting that Morphic Weapons requires a move action to activate PER WEAPON (ie: 3 move actions for Claw/Claw/Bite), which is a really heavy action tax from your rounds/level rage duration.
Having Morphic Weapons up in advance will require shenanigans because;


(emphasis mine)

I would definitely think they stacked. I asked the question about the damage dice because I was unsure of whether the Fist of the Forest unarmed attack damage possibly could affect the damage dice of the build, but I was never really in doubt about whether Improved Natural Attack feat and Morphic Weapons from Warshaper stacked. One says: "The damage for one of the creature's natural attack forms increases by one step, as if the creature's size had increased by one category" The other says: "If the warshaper's form already has a natural weapon of that type, the weapon deals damage as if it were one category larger."

So I read that as meaning that the bear warrior in black bear form deals damage as a huge sized bear i.e. two size increases. I however had totally forgotten about the move action activation, so that's going to be a hassle for sure!