Why dont we just have a jump speed?

[Damon_Tor]

The whole jump action thing got me thinking: why don't we just have a jump speed equal to our strength score? With a maximum height of 1/4 of our strength score?

That... that just seems stupidly reasonable to me. What an I missing? Why wouldn't this work?

[OldTrees1]

Why don't we just have a jump speed?

A fly speed does not measure how far you can fly before you fall (usually functionally indefinitely). It measures how fast you fly while you are flying.

Jumping usually cares about how far you can get in a single bound rather than how fast you move.

That is why jump speed is usually tied to land speed, with something else determining max jump distance per jump.


Imagine a 15 Str Rogue double dashing. Would they be able to jump 45ft in a single bound and then run out of movement, or would they be able to make 6 consecutive 15ft jumps? The former is a jump speed, the latter is jump as something you can do with your land speed.

[Damon_Tor]

A fly speed does not measure how far you can fly before you fall (usually functionally indefinitely). It measures how fast you fly while you are flying.

Jumping usually cares about how far you can get in a single bound rather than how fast you move.

That is why jump speed is usually tied to land speed, with something else determining max jump distance per jump.


Imagine a 15 Str Rogue double dashing. Would they be able to jump 45ft in a single bound and then run out of movement, or would they be able to make 6 consecutive 15ft jumps? The former is a jump speed, the latter is jump as something you can do with your land speed.

Using the new rules, dash is explicitly distinct from your regular movement. As such a rogue with 15 strength could dash twice to make three consecutive 15 foot jumps. Or two 15 foot jumps and one normal 30 foot move.

I'd probably apply proficiency to this if you've got athletics, so at level 1 a str of 13 plus proficiency gets you to 15.

[Psyren]

"If you don't have enough movement to jump X distance, it automatically fails" could be an easy way to handle it. Combined with "At the DM's discretion, you can jump distances further than your remaining movement on a turn would allow."

[OldTrees1]

Using the new rules, dash is explicitly distinct from your regular movement. As such a rogue with 15 strength could dash twice to make three consecutive 15 foot jumps. Or two 15 foot jumps and one normal 30 foot move.

I'd probably apply proficiency to this if you've got athletics, so at level 1 a str of 13 plus proficiency gets you to 15.

1) Did you have thoughts on the majority of my post/point? Jump usually cares about distance per jump rather than velocity of your jumping, that is why it is usually something you can do with your land speed instead of being a separate speed. Contrast this with a Climb speed, Swim speed, or a Fly speed.

2) So? If 1D&D dash is not a movement speed multiplier, then translate that 20% of my post to another movement speed multiplier (Boots of Speed perhaps?). When the character's movement speed is tripled, does it make sense to have them jump 45ft in a single bound or jump 90ft in 15ft increments?

3) Even with the nitpick it still suggests jump should be something you do with your landspeed. Why is the Rogue limited to 3x15ft of jumping instead of 6x15ft of jumping? (Or even 7x 10ft jumps separated by running a total of 20ft from the pauses between jumps for 70+20=90ft)


A jump speed answers a question that was not asked (do you move slower or faster while jumping) but leaves the question (how far can one jump) unanswered. That is why we don't have a jump speed.

[stoutstien]

Odd thought but what if jumping was treated as difficult terrain or worded like plant growth?

[Segev]

I, personally, dislike any ruling that makes it so that a jump distance greater than your speed (or remaining speed) for a turn makes you fall or fail the jump. I like the idea that you can launch yourself great distances if you invest enough in jumping. It's not as good as flying, but at least in interior locations, it can help martials keep up with fliers. Plus it's just cool.

Odd thought but what if jumping was treated as difficult terrain or worded like plant growth?You're going to have to elaborate on this if I am to understand, please; I'm not sure what you mean.

[stoutstien]

You're going to have to elaborate on this if I am to understand, please; I'm not sure what you mean.

just treat jumping as part of walking speed but it eat up 8x the movement for high jump and 4x for long for example. Values are spot balling.

[Segev]

just treat jumping as part of walking speed but it eat up 8x the movement for high jump and 4x for long for example. Values are spot balling.

Ah! Okay.

I think this doesn't work out well because jumping isn't slower than walking or running.

[stoutstien]

Ah! Okay.

I think this doesn't work out well because jumping isn't slower than walking or running.

True but time/speed is already a cluster once initiative takes over.

At least this way it's clean and quick.

[Segev]

True but time/speed is already a cluster once initiative takes over.

At least this way it's clean and quick.

So is the 5.0 way.

[stoutstien]

So is the 5.0 way.

Fair. I don't have an issue with the jump rules personally but if someone looking for a change why not toss some random ideas out to see what sticks.

[Hytheter]

One of the nice things about base 5e jumping is that it's a tool to bypass difficult terrain, so making jumping count as difficult terrain sounds horrific to me.

[Sigreid]

A fly speed does not measure how far you can fly before you fall (usually functionally indefinitely). It measures how fast you fly while you are flying.

Jumping usually cares about how far you can get in a single bound rather than how fast you move.

That is why jump speed is usually tied to land speed, with something else determining max jump distance per jump.


Imagine a 15 Str Rogue double dashing. Would they be able to jump 45ft in a single bound and then run out of movement, or would they be able to make 6 consecutive 15ft jumps? The former is a jump speed, the latter is jump as something you can do with your land speed.

I actually wouldn't have a problem with rogues being able to make crazy far jumps without spells. /shrug

[stoutstien]

One of the nice things about base 5e jumping is that it's a tool to bypass difficult terrain, so making jumping count as difficult terrain sounds horrific to me.

Treu but it a good opportunity to give some classes the opportunity to have more physical presence without only relying on ability scores.

[Segev]

Treu but it a good opportunity to give some classes the opportunity to have more physical presence without only relying on ability scores.

How so? It sounds to me like it does the opposite.

[OldTrees1]

I actually wouldn't have a problem with rogues being able to make crazy far jumps without spells. /shrug

In your case, I would ask, why does the Rogue need to have a movement multiplier before they can make a crazy jump? If you think the Rogue can jump 45ft, why would they need to double dash? If jumping is part of landspeed, then they could dash for 60ft including their 45ft jump. Or maybe they jump some this turn and some next turn. Or maybe they even make a 90ft jump.

I don't have a problem with rogues being able to make crazy far jumps without spells. However a jump speed is a flawed design.

[stoutstien]

How so? It sounds to me like it does the opposite.
It's like standing up from prone.

Take the normal rules and assume a standing long jump with 14 strength with a 6 ft tall PC and standard movement speed. That would be a distance of 7 ft. Then if you wanted it to start roughly the same distance with this change all you would need to do is say standing long jumps cost 4X the movement. Running start is 14 normally and double cost would end up with 15.

The only real change would be you'd need to dash before you longer jumps rather than after you are already in the air.

[Segev]

It's like standing up from prone.

Take the normal rules and assume a standing long jump with 14 strength with a 6 ft tall PC and standard movement speed. That would be a distance of 7 ft. Then if you wanted it to start roughly the same distance with this change all you would need to do is say standing long jumps cost 4X the movement. Running start is 14 normally and double cost would end up with 15.

The only real change would be you'd need to dash before you longer jumps rather than after you are already in the air.

Except now they had to spend 28 feet of movement to jump those seven feet, whereas under existing 5.0 rules that could have spent seven feet of movement on the seven foot standing long jump and then kept moving another 23 feet without even needing to dash.

The 5.0 rules definitely give that character more physical presence on the battlefield. The proposed change would make him move significantly less distance and potentially cost him more actions just to move.

[stoutstien]

Except now they had to spend 28 feet of movement to jump those seven feet, whereas under existing 5.0 rules that could have spent seven feet of movement on the seven foot standing long jump and then kept moving another 23 feet without even needing to dash.

The 5.0 rules definitely give that character more physical presence on the battlefield. The proposed change would make him move significantly less distance and potentially cost him more actions just to move.

True. It need some adjustments to even out but it's not impossible.

movement is mostly functional, if not a little be slow on the top end for larger NPCs. it's time that is an issue. Jumping distance is easy to adjudicate when you aren't in initiative (it's a common chicken little moment in that it's not a codified system for pushing your limits for distance or hight but honestly... really? If you can't adjust that for a given game style then you are going to have a hard time regardless.)

Jumping in combat is harder to deal with because everything is supposed to be happening roughly at the same time but obviously it can't so we have certain rules for how reactions can interrupt actions but as general rule everything takes a turn and then you start over. Jumping, falling, or anything else that only makes sense in a continuous form strange breaks in the flow anytime they don't overlap with the rotation.

[Damon_Tor]

Ah! Okay.

I think this doesn't work out well because jumping isn't slower than walking or running.

That's not true though. If it was, the hurdles event would have similar records to sprinting events. It COULD be true if human anatomy were different. I would fully expect a kangaroo to have a jump speed faster than their movement speed.

[starwolf]

This is what we did in our games and it solved the issues and streamlined its use.
Jump is just another speed and eats up movement no differently than climbing, swimming, flying, etc.
If someone gets a huge jump, it occurs all in one round and when they land if it's exceeded their other movement they stop when they land.

[Sigreid]

In your case, I would ask, why does the Rogue need to have a movement multiplier before they can make a crazy jump? If you think the Rogue can jump 45ft, why would they need to double dash? If jumping is part of landspeed, then they could dash for 60ft including their 45ft jump. Or maybe they jump some this turn and some next turn. Or maybe they even make a 90ft jump.

I don't have a problem with rogues being able to make crazy far jumps without spells. However a jump speed is a flawed design.

Haven't really put any thought into the mechanics. Just don't have a problem with the idea that a rogue ability, or perhaps a rogue subclass abilities are wild chop-saki level jumps.