Ideas for GOOD Gods/Patrons focused on "deception, manipulation, and control?"

[Odessa333]

Hey all!

So long story short, I am picking up the DM reins for some friends who had their last DM flake on them. In trying to do this right, I am going over their backstories, and I have a warlock player who 'in desperation prayed to bunch of good gods for power." They don't know who responded, but their powers are focused 'deception, manipulation, and control.' That's what I'm working with here.

That said, I want to develop this Patron. Obviously the 'real' patron doesn't have to be good to have sent power, though I'd like to give as many fake leads as I can. I'm not sure where I'm going to go with this yet, but the more options I have, the better. So if you know of a God/Patron who would fit the bill, I'd love to know. It doesn't even need to be from Dungeons and Dragons.

Thank you for your time, and happy gaming out there!

[Amnestic]

From the Forgotten Realms setting, good deities who have trickery as a domain:
Baravar Cloakshadow
Garl Glittergold
Aerdrie Faenya
Alobal Lorfiril
Hlal
Kirith Sotheril
Marthammer duin
Melira Taralen
Sarula Iliene
Sharess/Bast
Sune
Tymora

Oberon and Titania were good-aligned archfey (at least in 2e)

From Eberron, Olladra is one of the Sovereign Host with the trickery domain and is typically good.

[ZRN]

Hey all!

So long story short, I am picking up the DM reins for some friends who had their last DM flake on them. In trying to do this right, I am going over their backstories, and I have a warlock player who 'in desperation prayed to bunch of good gods for power." They don't know who responded, but their powers are focused 'deception, manipulation, and control.' That's what I'm working with here.

That said, I want to develop this Patron. Obviously the 'real' patron doesn't have to be good to have sent power, though I'd like to give as many fake leads as I can. I'm not sure where I'm going to go with this yet, but the more options I have, the better. So if you know of a God/Patron who would fit the bill, I'd love to know. It doesn't even need to be from Dungeons and Dragons.

Thank you for your time, and happy gaming out there!

This is pretty classic "trickster god" territory - think Anansi, Coyote, Maui, maybe Prometheus.

[GentlemanVoodoo]

What is the patron? If the GOO, and needing good align creatures psionic gods like Auppenser or any of the Gem dragon's from Forgotten Realms. If Archfey, Tatiana of the Seelie court comes to mind but a more good inclined Raven Queen can work. With out specifics of the character build can't advise more than this or what has already been said.

[GooeyChewie]

It may help to ask the player what Pact they have. Im guessing Pact of the Archfey, in which case I would go with Amnestic’s suggestion of Titania. She leans more ‘fey court’ as opposed to Oberon’s more ‘wild beasts’ bent. That said, those have an “it’s complicated” relationship with each other, which could allow some interesting plot lines if they went in on the Pact together.

[Sparky McDibben]

Hey all!

So long story short, I am picking up the DM reins for some friends who had their last DM flake on them. In trying to do this right, I am going over their backstories, and I have a warlock player who 'in desperation prayed to bunch of good gods for power." They don't know who responded, but their powers are focused 'deception, manipulation, and control.' That's what I'm working with here.

That said, I want to develop this Patron. Obviously the 'real' patron doesn't have to be good to have sent power, though I'd like to give as many fake leads as I can. I'm not sure where I'm going to go with this yet, but the more options I have, the better. So if you know of a God/Patron who would fit the bill, I'd love to know. It doesn't even need to be from Dungeons and Dragons.

Thank you for your time, and happy gaming out there!

Sephrenia from Eddings' Elenium would be a good model. Alternatively, see Moiraine from the Wheel of Time, or that one ******* (Bayaz?) from the First Law Trilogy.

[JackPhoenix]

While good creatures can use trickery and guile, I'm pretty sure anything focused on "deception, manipulation and control" would be neutral at best. The "manipulation and control" part in particular sounds more like evil territory.

[Odessa333]

Good point, I should have mentioned they are a celestial warlock. They are also a female halfling for context.

[Naanomi]

Celestial Pact? A servant of one of those Gods... An Eladrin (the 2e/3e kind), a Ysgardian Bauriar, one of the thematically appropriate Animal Lords of the Beastlands...

[LudicSavant]

Here's one: My Pantheon's Take On Olidammara (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?445953-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Olidammara) (Olidammara as an altruistic trickster deity, and god of 'enlightened self-interest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_self-interest)')

There are a few other schemer/trickster/manipulator archetypes in that pantheon, too, and (almost) every deity in there is designed to be able to be seen as the good guy to different points of view. Even the omnicidal ones (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?443831-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Nerull).

(note: the knowledge DCs are for 3.5; for 5e, lower them by like 10 if you even use them at all)

[Kane0]

Any deity that the Harpers tend to like?

[Unoriginal]

Hey all!

So long story short, I am picking up the DM reins for some friends who had their last DM flake on them. In trying to do this right, I am going over their backstories, and I have a warlock player who 'in desperation prayed to bunch of good gods for power." They don't know who responded, but their powers are focused 'deception, manipulation, and control.' That's what I'm working with here.

That said, I want to develop this Patron. Obviously the 'real' patron doesn't have to be good to have sent power, though I'd like to give as many fake leads as I can. I'm not sure where I'm going to go with this yet, but the more options I have, the better. So if you know of a God/Patron who would fit the bill, I'd love to know. It doesn't even need to be from Dungeons and Dragons.

Thank you for your time, and happy gaming out there!

Maybe you could use Andromalius the Repentant Rogue, one of the 3.5 vestiges. Once a mortal thief and favored follower of Olidammara, he managed to steal his own soul from his god by repenting a lifetime of crimes and tricks he ever did on his deathbed, as his final and best prank. Olidammara was delighted by Andromalius's cleverness, humor and guts, but since he couldn't accept the thief's soul without ruining the joke, he just made him a vestige instead.

[Greywander]

Another direction you could go with this concept is a mentor figure. Someone who subtly guides the heroes onto the correct path. That's a form of manipulation of sorts. Someone who speaks in riddles and mysteries, desiring for the heroes to find the answers for themselves instead of just being told the answer. That's a form of deception, at least in that it obfuscates the truth. The difference is that the mentor wants them to figure it out and discover the truth, while with most deception the goal is for the truth to never be discovered. Many of these subtle mentor figures will also often keep their true identity a secret, perhaps appearing as an old man or woman.

Oden, Gandalf, and Yoda are examples of this character archetype.

Even if this isn't the true patron, you could use it as one of the red herrings.

[Sparky McDibben]

Here's one: My Pantheon's Take On Olidammara (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?445953-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Olidammara) (Olidammara as an altruistic trickster deity, and god of 'enlightened self-interest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_self-interest)')

There are a few other schemer/trickster/manipulator archetypes in that pantheon, too, and (almost) every deity in there is designed to be able to be seen as the good guy to different points of view. Even the omnicidal ones (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?443831-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Nerull).

(note: the knowledge DCs are for 3.5; for 5e, lower them by like 10 if you even use them at all)

I can second this; I ran with a loosely based version of this Olidammara and it worked great.

[Psyren]

Rounding out the FR and Greyhawk suggestions, Golarion has Cayden Cailean as a roguish type, though he's not big on the "manipulation" front. Less well-known Golarion deities that should still be broadly familiar include Bastet and Sun Wukong.


Any deity that the Harpers tend to like?

They are pretty big Tymora stans IIRC

[Person_Man]

If you want to lean into the control aspect, there are a bunch of lawful evil gods/devils/etc who are all about control through any means necessary. My favorite magnificent bastards from fiction/mythology are the ones who always tell the truth, and yet deceive and manipulate others into doing their bidding. Its a big theme with the fey in the Dresdon Files, sone stories about Satan/Mephistopheles/etc, Asmodeus in the Forgotten Realms (depending on the writer), and others.

[Naanomi]

Note that for the most part, if we are looking at Warlock Patrons we shouldn't be looking at Gods. Few seem to do both (and those that do seem to mostly be beings that once patronized warlocks and then later became a God), and even the Celestial Pact warlocks are bound to angelic (and associated) beings not Divinities

[zlefin]

Diplomacy can be heavily about deception, manipulation, and control. It's not hard to justify a Good diplomat who's focused on trying to help people get along; after all the so-called 'white lies' are just as much a form of deceptions. They also try to manipulate others into giving to charity/good causes.