Recommendations for a turn-based video game with smart AI?

[Estarixq]

Hi, everyone!

Lately, I've developed a craving for playing some turn-based RPG games, and as someone who has little experience with these types of games, I'm curious, what would you guys recommend to someone who's looking for a good turn-based game to play?

I haven't played turn-based games in ages, and right now I have Knights of the Chalice, and Temple of Elemental Evil, and they're both marvelous. I especially like the AI in KotC, and how it implements smart tactics like combat maneuvers and spells.

Now I'm wondering, are there any games that you guys would recommend that are similar to these two? That is, turn-based games where the AI is *smart*, and not dumb where they just auto-attack the first person they see until they die.

All that I care about in these types of games is that the AI is smart, and challenging, as those two things make the game for me very fun, and interesting to play.

I'm looking for anything right now, regardless of the setting/realm they're in, or the timeline (D&D, Fantasy, Modern, Sci-fi, etc. it really doesn't matter). All that I care about is as I've written above, that the AI is (hopefully) smart, and knows what they're doing.

Do any games come to mind?

[Grod_The_Giant]

If you want something modern, Divinity: Original Sin 2 (https://store.steampowered.com/app/435150/Divinity_Original_Sin_2__Definitive_Edition/) is one of the single greatest games I've ever played--characters, storyline, enemies, encounter design, special abilities... it's just all-around gold. Don't be fooled by the name, incidentally; there's some shared lore with other Divinity games but overall it's completely stand-alone. (There's also a great mod scene, if that matters to you).

If you want something old-school Spiderweb Software is a little indie publisher that's been putting out amazing isometric RPGs since the mid-90s. They just put out a remastered version of what's possibly their greatest game, Geneforge 1 (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1424710/Geneforge_1__Mutagen/).

You probably want the Gaming (Other) subforum-- this one is mostly for tabletop games. If you report your own post you can ask a mod to move it.

[Psyren]

If you want something modern, Divinity: Original Sin 2 (https://store.steampowered.com/app/435150/Divinity_Original_Sin_2__Definitive_Edition/) is one of the single greatest games I've ever played--characters, storyline, enemies, encounter design, special abilities... it's just all-around gold. Don't be fooled by the name, incidentally; there's some shared lore with other Divinity games but overall it's completely stand-alone. (There's also a great mod scene, if that matters to you).

If you want something old-school Spiderweb Software is a little indie publisher that's been putting out amazing isometric RPGs since the mid-90s. They just put out a remastered version of what's possibly their greatest game, Geneforge 1 (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1424710/Geneforge_1__Mutagen/).

You probably want the Gaming (Other) subforum-- this one is mostly for tabletop games. If you report your own post you can ask a mod to move it.

+1000 to Divinity OS2, it's probably the greatest modern turn-based RPG out right now. There's a good reason WotC hand-picked Larian to do Baldur's Gate 3. And on the higher difficulties the AI can get pretty nasty, comboing effects on your party, etc.

If you're familiar with Pathfinder (1st edition), Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous both have mods that transform them into true turn-based games. I can't speak for the AI however.

[Kane0]

I believe the original Icewind Dale had a heavier combat focus than the other infinity engine games, some of the encounter design was quite good. Its cheap to pick up but its age could potentially make for cheesable AI.

The Larian and Owlcat games have ready been mentioned, but theres also the Pillars of Eternity games.

For Sci-Fi, Battletech (2018) by Harebrained Schemes is good quality turn-based tactical combat that also functions as a great gateway drug into the franchise.

Edit: Into the Breach! Made by the same guys that made FTL, turn based tactical puzzles is basically the bread and butter of the game, and its also a small investment to get/run

Honorable mention to Solasta: Crown of the Magister too. Still in development but shaping well so far.

[Vahnavoi]

The only turn-based games with solid AI are classic perfect information games like Chess, Checkers, Go, etc. If you want intellectual challenge, play those. Warning: you will lose.

CRPGs tend to have terminally stupid AIs for one or more of several reasons: one, the ruleset being emulated (such as D&D, Magic: the Gathering or Civilization) is so damn complex and/or relies on imperfect information that coding an AI that doesn't cheat and still plays on a human level is hideously hard. Two, allowing the AI to cheat too much (by giving it perfect information etc.) might make it near-impossible for a human to defeat without exploiting AI errors (see: Shin Megami Tensei or other games with rock-scissors-paper-type mechanics). Hence, game developers typically aim for a bad AI that kinda sorta plays like a human and then allow it to cheat just enough to be a challenge.

Of the games mentioned, Icewind Dales and all Spiderweb games have very rudimentary script-based AIs. The former group can be utterly broken in half by a player using positioning and few select spells in a perfectly normal way. The latter group occasionallg offers interesting tactical challenges, but leans largely towards being numerically hard and puzzle-like - once you figure out a working strategy, that's that.

Pokemon has more challenges in the extended post-game (battle tower and the like), but it's still mostly just a tutorial for playing against other humans.

[Psyren]

The only turn-based games with solid AI are classic perfect information games like Chess, Checkers, Go, etc. If you want intellectual challenge, play those. Warning: you will lose.

CRPGs tend to have terminally stupid AIs for one or more of several reasons: one, the ruleset being emulated (such as D&D, Magic: the Gathering or Civilization) is so damn complex and/or relies on imperfect information that coding an AI that doesn't cheat and still plays on a human level is hideously hard. Two, allowing the AI to cheat too much (by giving it perfect information etc.) might make it near-impossible for a human to defeat without exploiting AI errors (see: Shin Megami Tensei or other games with rock-scissors-paper-type mechanics). Hence, game developers typically aim for a bad AI that kinda sorta plays like a human and then allow it to cheat just enough to be a challenge.

Of the games mentioned, Icewind Dales and all Spiderweb games have very rudimentary script-based AIs. The former group can be utterly broken in half by a player using positioning and few select spells in a perfectly normal way. The latter group occasionallg offers interesting tactical challenges, but leans largely towards being numerically hard and puzzle-like - once you figure out a working strategy, that's that.

Pokemon has more challenges in the extended post-game (battle tower and the like), but it's still mostly just a tutorial for playing against other humans.

Yes yes, we know, game "AI" is not actually artificial intelligence. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FBGR6vmNeU) It's just an interesting set of scripts for the player to poke at, and high difficulty often means the computer is allowed to cheat. There's still skill/engagement involved in taking down a "foe" with such lopsided advantages.



The Larian and Owlcat games have ready been mentioned, but theres also the Pillars of Eternity games.

Note that PoE is closer to "real time with pause" (similar to Neverwinter Nights and the first two Baldur's Gate games) than it is turn-based. However, there are mods to make it fully turn-based.

Another great set of turn-based games are the newer X-Com titles.

[Estarixq]

Thank you all very much for the recommendations!

I'll make sure to check out each and every one of the games you guys recommended!

I did not expect this thread to get as much attention as it did, so thank you all again for the suggestions :D

[Estarixq]

If you want something modern, Divinity: Original Sin 2 is one of the single greatest games I've ever played--characters, storyline, enemies, encounter design, special abilities... it's just all-around gold. Don't be fooled by the name, incidentally; there's some shared lore with other Divinity games but overall it's completely stand-alone. (There's also a great mod scene, if that matters to you).

If you want something old-school Spiderweb Software is a little indie publisher that's been putting out amazing isometric RPGs since the mid-90s. They just put out a remastered version of what's possibly their greatest game, Geneforge 1.

You probably want the Gaming (Other) subforum-- this one is mostly for tabletop games. If you report your own post you can ask a mod to move it.

DOS games have been widely recommended whenever I Googled for a good TBS RPG game, and I think I will definitely take a look at those games once they go on sale.

The only issue I have is that judging by the difficulty modes, I can't say that I like Larian's decision to include "Smart AI" only in the Tactician/Hardest difficulty mode.

It's a bit weird they don't include a mode where neither NPCs nor PCs get any alterations, but still with the smarter AI (Classic+ if you will). For me, that seems like it would be the perfect middle ground.

Are there perhaps any patches or mods for this? That is, to include the Tactician's "Smart AI" function, and implement it into Classic Mode?

I'd rather not start my first playthrough of the series immediately on the hardest mode if I can avoid it :D

[Psyren]

DOS games have been widely recommended whenever I Googled for a good TBS RPG game, and I think I will definitely take a look at those games once they go on sale.

The only issue I have is that judging by the difficulty modes, I can't say that I like Larian's decision to include "Smart AI" only in the Tactician/Hardest difficulty mode.

It's a bit weird they don't include a mode where neither NPCs nor PCs get any alterations, but still with the smarter AI (Classic+ if you will). For me, that seems like it would be the perfect middle ground.

Are there perhaps any patches or mods for this? That is, to include the Tactician's "Smart AI" function, and implement it into Classic Mode?

I'd rather not start my first playthrough of the series immediately on the hardest mode if I can avoid it :D

As with every other game, I suggest you start somewhere in the middle and then adjust the difficulty up or down until you feel stimulated.

[Estarixq]

As with every other game, I suggest you start somewhere in the middle and then adjust the difficulty up or down until you feel stimulated.

True, although I was hoping I could find somewhere a mod that basically removes the enemy stat inflation, and just keeps the "Smart AI" (from which I've heard is version 2.0) on the Tactician Mode, or a mod that simply changes the AI from version 2.1 (which is used in every difficulty except Tactician) to 2.0, so that I can enjoy the best of both worlds :)

[Psyren]

True, although I was hoping I could find somewhere a mod that basically removes the enemy stat inflation, and just keeps the "Smart AI" (from which I've heard is version 2.0) on the Tactician Mode, or a mod that simply changes the AI from version 2.1 (which is used in every difficulty except Tactician) to 2.0, so that I can enjoy the best of both worlds :)

Gotcha - have you tried asking on Larian's forums or subreddit? You're likely to find not just the more dedicated fans there, but even mod authors themselves.

[Taevyr]

Pillars of Eternity II has a turn-based mode and is pretty damn good, though you might be a bit lost story-wise due to it being a sequel.

[Psyren]

Pillars of Eternity II has a turn-based mode and is pretty damn good, though you might be a bit lost story-wise due to it being a sequel.

IIRC they added that mode due to the turn-based mod fans made for the first game (and in Kingmaker) exploding in popularity.

[Taevyr]

IIRC they added that mode due to the turn-based mod fans made for the first game (and in Kingmaker) exploding in popularity.

Yeah, that's essentially why, though they did a decent job balancing and fleshing out all the odds and ends. To be expected, honestly, with Josh Sawyer as senior designer.

[Estarixq]

Gotcha - have you tried asking on Larian's forums or subreddit? You're likely to find not just the more dedicated fans there, but even mod authors themselves.

Good idea! I'll give it a shot and see if a mod like that already exists, or if someone can tell me how to do it myself.

Thanks!

[Artanis]

For Sci-Fi, Battletech (2018) by Harebrained Schemes is good quality turn-based tactical combat that also functions as a great gateway drug into the franchise

I second this one. It's basically Battletech Meets X-COM. MechsCom, if you will. Also, I have very fond memories of the time I made a mech that could shoot a literal ton of bullets every turn :smallbiggrin:

You might also want to check out Europa Universalis 4 and Stellaris. They're not *technically* turn-based, but they're fully pauseable and everything is calculated on such discrete time-stamps that they might as well be most of the time. The AI is... well, it obviously isn't human-quality, but I've seen a hell of a lot worse.

[137beth]

Mangobile's Tactics Maiden (iOS/Android (http://www.mangobile.com/Mangobile/TacticsMaidenOverview.html) and Windows/Mac/Linux (http://www.mangobile.com/Mangobile/TacticsMaidenRemasteredOverview.html)) is a tactical RPG with a fairly smart AI. The strategy required on the higher difficulty levels makes it quite interesting. The story is just okay.