Cursed Item Feedback

[jjordan]

Self-scrubbing for reasons

[Yakk]

So, those are spell-slot less spells?

Looks less like a curse and more like an item you can turn into something crazy good. I mean, at-will firestorm? All for either fire immunity (or reliable DC 17 con saves), or in the second case losing 1 long rest and needing 1 greater restoration.

Like literally "fire storm" every turn for as many turns as you want.

[jjordan]

So, those are spell-slot less spells?

Looks less like a curse and more like an item you can turn into something crazy good. I mean, at-will firestorm? All for either fire immunity (or reliable DC 17 con saves), or in the second case losing 1 long rest and needing 1 greater restoration.

Like literally "fire storm" every turn for as many turns as you want.
Thank you!

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Conceptually I like the second version better.

Version 1 seems like a reasonably simple calculation. If the expected damage to your own party is higher than the expected damage to the other guy minus what you would have done to them had you done something else this turn, don't cast the spell. This balance should eventually become pretty similar for pretty much every single situation, either the item is good or it will never be used. The idea of stacking up a cost that you pay later seems much curse-ier. "Okay, maybe one more spell, I'll survive that. The party really needs me right now."

[Yakk]

It is still at-will firestorm, a level 7 spell.

You don't balance at-will firestorm with "oh, in another day there might be some personality changes that can be cured through slightly difficult method".

Just don't do at-will firestorm. The same is true of at-will fireball.

Just don't.

[animorte]

Just don't.

Seems to me this could easily be solved by having a limit to the number of points that you benefit from over the course of the day, resetting after a long rest. I also gather that, in order to make the DC reasonably difficult, the limit can’t be too low.

I would make it a solid 14 (max DC of 24) or something else you determine to be a reasonable number around that. This way they can cast firestorm twice and then nothing until they complete a long rest, or properly distribute their usage to achieve a variety of effects.

[Yakk]

Seems to me this could easily be solved by having a limit to the number of points that you benefit from over the course of the day, resetting after a long rest. I also gather that, in order to make the DC reasonably difficult, the limit can’t be too low.

I would make it a solid 14 (max DC of 24) or something else you determine to be a reasonable number around that. This way they can cast firestorm twice and then nothing until they complete a long rest, or properly distribute their usage to achieve a variety of effects.
Oh sure, "cursed item that lets you cast fire spells" can work a million ways.

The easiest is say "once per day" for each of them, and include it as a spell known you can fuel with spell slots.

Or charges.

Or make it immediately and progressively more dangerous.

Or some kind of cooldown (but that gets fiddly).

[animorte]

The easiest is say "once per day" for each of them, and include it as a spell known you can fuel with spell slots.
+
Or make it immediately and progressively more dangerous.


I like the combination of these two. Perhaps something like:
1st cast: free (or firebolt)
2nd: DC 10 (or flame blade)
3rd: DC 15 (or fireball)
4th: DC 20 (or flame shield)
5th: DC 25 (or firestorm)

The (Or) is those would be the set Constitution save DCs (to not spontaneously combust) depending on which one you used.

[Greywander]

This cursed item reminds me a bit of the wild magic system (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g9G0MwlSF3E6HFDJizb6lUH2gjC4PFSiV63dMjciMW4/edit?usp=sharing) I wrote up, so maybe you might be able to find something there that could help you in the design of this item. It's based on Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay's magic system, if you're familiar with that.

To spare you reading through the entire doc, here's the gist of it:

To cast a spell, you need to make a spellcasting check. The DC depends on the spell's level. You roll 1 to 4 spellcasting dice, adding the results together. Rolling more dice increases your odds of passing the DC, however if you roll doubles, triples, or quadruples then you trigger a wild magic surge. Doubles triggers a minor surge, triples a major surge, and quadruples a catastrophic surge, so not only does rolling more dice increase the odds of triggering a surge at all, it also increases the odds of triggering a more severe surge. Also note that whether or not you pass the DC is independent of whether or not you trigger a surge.

The DC is based on spell point cost, not spell level, so that might be helpful to you. I start with a base DC of 4 and add +2 per spell point. So a 1st level spell has a DC of 8, a 2nd level spell 10, but a 3rd level spell jumps to 14. Spellcasting dice start as d6s and increase in size at 5th, 11th, and 17th level, ending up as d12s. This makes it not only easier to pass a DC, but also less likely that you'll trigger a wild magic surge.

For your purposes, I might use d8s, still with the choice to roll 1 to 4 dice, and instead of rolling on a table you could just make three negative effects with doubles giving the least severe (e.g. hallucinations) and quadruples giving the most severe (e.g. murderous). If you want to use my DCs verbatim, then cantrips are either free (no roll) or have a DC of 4, 1st level spells have a DC of 8, 2nd level DC 10, 3rd level DC 14, and 4th level DC 16. Also consider adding Hellish Rebuke or Wall of Fire to the list of spells, maybe Create Bonfire as well. Fireball might be a bit too strong, but do note how the DC for 3rd level spells does jump higher to compensate for how much stronger 3rd level spells are compared to 2nd level spells.

The write up might then look something like this:


Hellfire Tattoo
While bearing this mark you may cast spells from a limited list of hellfire spells. To cast one of these spells, roll one to four d8s and add them together. If the result is greater than or equal to the DC associated with that spell, you successfully cast the spell, otherwise the spell dissipates and has no effect, leaving an acrid smell of sulfur behind. If you roll doubles, triples, or quadruples when you attempt to cast one of these spells, you are engulfed in flame and creatures within 10 feet of you must make a DC 16 Dexterity saving throw, taking 2d8 fire damage on a failure and half as much on a success. You automatically fail the Dexterity saving throw for this effect.



Spell
DC


Create Bonfire, Fire Bolt, Produce Flame
4


Burning Hands, Hellish Rebuke
8


Aganazzar's Scorcher, Flame Blade
10


Fire Shield (Warm Shield only), Wall of Fire
16



Curse. This item is cursed, a fact that is revealed only when you attune to it. It may only be removed by a remove curse spell. When casting remove curse on this item it gets to roll a saving throw against the caster's spell save DC and if it succeeds the remove curse fails. This item gets a +4 bonus to the saving throw, which increases by +2 for each stage that the curse has progressed. If the remove curse spell succeeds the curse mark transforms into a hostile fire elemental which attacks the caster.

If you roll doubles, triples, or quadruples, then the next time you finish a long rest you must roll a Constitution saving throw. The saving throw starts with a DC of 5, and the DC increases by +1 for each time you rolled doubles, +3 for each time you rolled triples, and +8 for each time you rolled quadruples since your last long rest. If you fail the saving throw, you are tormented by horrible nightmare visions of disastrous futures and fail to complete your long rest, taking a point of exhaustion as the curse progresses to its next stage. Once the curse progresses, it cannot be reverted except by removing the curse entirely. If at any point your maximum hit points are reduced to 0 by the curse's progression, you are permanently transformed into an insane, hostile fire elemental that attacks any living thing.

The curse will progress through the following stages:

Stage 0. You start at this stage when you first attune to the item. There is no additional effect.
Stage 1 (Hallucinations). Your maximum hit points are reduced by 10 as the item saps your vital force. Half heard whispers and fleeting visions at the edge of your vision make it harder for you to determine what's real. You have disadvantage on Perception checks and Initiative rolls.
Stage 2 (Sulfurous Scent). Your maximum hit points are reduced by 10 as the item saps your vital force. The whiff of brimstone follows you everywhere. You have disadvantage on Stealth and Charisma checks.
Stage 3 (Reckless). Your maximum hit points are reduced by 10 as the item saps your vital force. Your single minded pursuit of the attack gives you Advantage on all attack rolls but causes you to disregard your personal safety, giving your opponents Advantage on all attacks against you.
Stage 4 (Murderous). Your maximum hit points are reduced by 10 as the item saps your vital force. When you attack a creature all other concerns are washed away by your desire to kill. When you attack a creature you must continue attacking it until it is dead or you are rendered unconscious.
Stage 5+ Each time you progress the curse past this point, your maximum hit points are reduced by another 10. This continues until you either remove the curse or have your maximum hit points reduced to 0.

[jjordan]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

I added Fireball back to the list because, c'mon, who doesn't want to be able to cast Fireball? But I made the cost/value a 5. I dropped the base DC for spell failure to a 4 because that encourages the player to use the item. I dropped the base DC for the long rest save from a 10 to an 8 because no matter how good your character is that 5% chance of auto-fail is going to catch you eventually and the only way to remove curse effects is to get rid of the entire curse.