Gestalt Skill Monkey build/plan looking for input

[from]

So, hopefully we're starting a campaign in a month or two. I'm "rusty" at this, and thought I'd get some input here on what could work and what would not. Since I kind of like TO/character building, I planned his entire (potential) life, but we're starting at level 5, so that's from where I hope it would be playable.


An orphan growing up in a church-run orphanage, who devoured all information in the church library as well as all "street smarts" he could pick up, before using his Minor Shape Change to escape into a career of crime.
His skills and natural talents served him well, and he picked up a few new tricks before finally getting busted during a heist-gone-bad and tossed into an Otyugh hole prison.
Once out, he swore off crime and started looking for new venues for his skills - and found them in service of the local lord, as an infiltrator into the criminal gangs he formerly worked with.
(This will expand into spying on more than "just" criminals as the campaign starts)



Setting:

Starting at level 5, will hopefully continue to level 20
Custom setting
Focus on intrigue, diplomacy and investigation


Rules:

All WotC publications (Books, Dragon magazine, Web Enhancements, etc.)
Second party books/Official Licensed Products (E.g. Dragonlance)
Paizo Pathfinder content with DM approval


Most/All Variant/Optional Rules allowed, these are used in the current build:

Gestalt
Buy-off allowed
Flaws allowed
Bloodlines allowed


House rule(s):

As per Masters of the Wild, p20, Virtual Feats, being a Factotum qualifies as Able Learner for Chameleon
No multi-classing penalties
Setting-specific prerequisites waived or supported by DM
36 points point-buy
Are multiple Bloodlines a house rule or RaW?




Race: Changeling
Template: Mulhorandi Divine Minion (Nephtys) (LA +1)
Template: Magic-Blooded
Bloodline: Devil (Major)
Bloodline: Gold Dragon (Major)





Ability
Base
Cost
Race
Total
Bonus


Strength
8
0
-
8
-1


Dexterity
14
6
-
14
+2


Constitution
12
4
-
12
+1


Intelligence
18
16
-
18
+4


Wisdom
12
4
-2
10
0


Charisma
14
6
+2
16
+3







Level
Gestalt Left
Gestalt Right
Feat(s)


1
Factotum 1
Changeling Rogue 1
Human Heritage
(Flaw) Academic Priest
(Flaw) Knowledge Devotion
(Court of Thieves) Advantageous Avoidance[/td]

2
Factotum 2
Swordsage 1


3
Factotum 3
Rogue 2
Darkstalker

4
Factotum 4
Changeling Rogue 3
(Otyugh Hole) Skill Focus (Intimidate)

5
Factotum 5
Chameleon 1


6
Factotum 6
Mindbender 1 (Chameleon)
Mindsight

7
Factotum 7
Chameleon 2


8
Factotum 8
Chameleon 3


9
Factotum 9
Chameleon 4
Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Passions)

10
Factotum 10
Chameleon 5


11
Factotum 11
Chameleon 6


12
Factotum 12
Chameleon 7
Keen Intellect

13
Factotum 13
Chameleon 8


14
Factotum 14
Uncanny Trickster 1


15
Factotum 15
Uncanny Trickster 2 (Chameleon 9)
Imperious Command

16
Factotum 16
Uncanny Trickster 3 (Chameleon 10)


17
Factotum 17
Exemplar 1


18
Factotum 18
Exemplar 2
Martial Stance

19
Factotum 19
Exemplar 3
(Bonus) Open Minded

20
Factotum 20
Exemplar 4





Ideas with build:

Maximize skill points as much as possible
Ensure effective use of skills, supported by feats and skill tricks
Ensure a decent initiator level by an early dip in Swordsage
Full Chameleon and Factotum, for maximum flexibility and adaptability
Use Intelligence wherever and whenever possible


Thoughts? Ideas? Where have I erred? Will it be very bad/hard to play at certain/all levels? Any input appreciated!

[Maat Mons]

Conventional wisdom for gestalt is to always go for 9th-level spells. Actually, that’s conventional wisdom in non-gestalt too.

If I was an orphaned changeling, I’d find a rich family with a missing child and show up pretending to be that child with a case of amnesia.

There was an Egoist ACF in one of the old Mind’s Eye articles that gave non-changelings the Minor Change Shape ability. Don’t know if that opens up any new race options for you.

I think psionics lends itself well to intrigue, since powers don’t have somatic or material components.

[Anthrowhale]

I'm not sure how you are handling multiple bloodlines, but it looks like you can potentially enter Chameleon at level 2 by taking your bloodline levels early and using the skill retraining rules in PHB II to satisfy the skill prereqs. Hence by character level 5 you'll be chameleon level 4 able to cast 3rd level spells with a caster level of (4+6)x2=20. In addition, after buying off your initial LA+1, you can pick up a level of the Lich savage progression class (online, now in the wayback machine) for an Int+2 after the buyoff and plan to buy it off at level 6 and a level in the half-dragon savage progression for another Int+2 with a plan to buy it off at level 6 (if I understand the rules right).

You might also consider fitting in some levels of Human Paragon early in the build, since the Ability Boost (i.e. another Int+2) pays off in extra skill points as the character builds and the extra feat is handy.

Nymph's Kiss is another feat which provides yet more skill points.

Overall, maybe open with Factotum 1/Major Gold Dragon 3/Human Paragon 1/Factotum 1/Half-dragon Savage Progression 1/Factotum 1//Changeling Rogue 1/Major Devil 3/Chameleon 1/Human Paragon 1/Lich Savage Progression 1/Human Paragon 1 with all bloodline levels taken between levels 1&2 (for 3K XP) a buyoff after level 3 (2K XP). That leaves you are character level 4, ECL 5, and ready to do another buyoff after level 6. You also have a +6 bonus to Int from class levels. Also take Nymph's Kiss at level 1, delaying Knowledge Devotion for Human Paragon 2. Together, these net you out at +4 skill points/level.

(Also, it's not clear to me that Changeling is worth it. The social benefits are nice, but the skill points are negative since you could instead pay 2 feats (the human bonus and human heritage) on open-minded for an extra 10 skill points and benefit from the human +1 skill point/level.)

[Bphill561]

I'm not sure how you are handling multiple bloodlines, but it looks like you can potentially enter Chameleon at level 2 by taking your bloodline levels early and using the skill retraining rules in PHB II to satisfy the skill prereqs.

Yeah, how two blood lines work really is going to depend on what level you take them and when you buy them off. First you are treating them as LA, which they really are not, but I have seen DM's allow LA-buy off with them.

So first question, how is LA buyoff working in your group? If a Major blood line is +3 LA, the earliest buy off points would be 3, 6, and 9. Unless you buy them off and consider your LA to be +0 after each bloodline level is gained and immediately bought off. Second problem is you have a +1 divine minion template, which would push one "side" of the build to +4. So you are looking at buying off at 3, 6, 9, and 12.

The next assumption I am making is you are mostly taking both blood levels at the same time and allowing you buy-off one LA from each bloodline. You are still going to have one level with Divine minion and nothing paired to it, so I guess take another +1LA. You would be best to stick to other Template as class (savage Progressions) things like Half-dragon or half-field since they are also acquired templates you dont have to take until you are ready to buy off. But using this approach, I would spread your two bloodlines over 4 levels. You cannot get the same thing from two classes at the same time in gestalt, so the bloodlines would not stack their levels add to stuff ability.

Overall I am not sure what all the templates are for. Just get as much crap as possible or that is part of the character idea. You don't have anything tricky things with bloodlines in your build either, beyond the standard + to caster level and skill cap.

I might try instead a slightly more focused idea, lets say Dragon
Maybe 3 Bloodline Gold Dragon//1 Any +1 template/Divine Minion+1 /Half-Dragon savage progression +1 or Phenric +2/ Half dragon +1

I would second spell casting to 9th level unless you are opposed to it. You could go Beguiler which is 6 skills points, large skill list, social based spells, and Int Spontaneous spell casting. Not the strongest, but not your skill focus.

(1) Beguiler 1 // Rogue 1 (If you don't need sneak attack, consider the unearthed arcana bonus fighter feat trade off)
(2) Bloodline 1 // Half-dragon 1
(3) Beguiler 2 // Human Paragon 1
(4-1) Factotum 1 // Human Paragon 2 (LA Buy off 1, -3k points)
(5-1) Bloodline 2 // Divine Minion 1 (Skill Max 8)

Now you first buy-off can be at level 4 for 3k xp, and you would be level 4 at start. Half-dragon is added first because it is a +2 Int early. Human paragon can give you all the skills you are missing. Then maybe

(5) Factotum 2 // Human Paragon 3 (Skill Max 9)
(6) Beguiler 3 // Chameleon 1 (Assuming you can take prestige classes before level 5 as per the gestalt rules).
(7-1) Mindbender 1 // Factotum 3 (LA Buy off 2, -6k Points)

Then I would bring your last LA in right before you get to 9 HD

(7) Beguiler 4 // Chameleon 2
(8) Beguiler 5 // Chameleon 3
(9) Bloodline 3 // Template X
(10-1) Beguiler 6 // Chameleon 4 (LA Buy off 3, -9k Points)

(10-15) Beguiler 12 // Chameleon 10
(16) Beguiler 13 // Exemplar 1 (Can Be earlier)
(17) Marshal 1 // Wyrm Wizard 1
(18) Beguiler 14 // Wyrm Wizard 2
(19) Base Class 1 // Wyrm Wizard 3
(20) Beguiler 15 // Wyrm Wizard 4

You don't really need beguiler all the way to level 20, just the casting progression (same as human paragon). You only need one level of Exemplar, the skill mastery is all that is necessary from that class. Later Wyrm Wizard might be useful to add any killer spells you want to your list, but that was just more dragon focus (not necessary). Marshal add Cha bonus to something, a single ability score based skills or maybe Spell Penetration.

Of course this is a different direction. You could drop chameleon all together and put some factotum levels back in instead.

Totally crazy and different

https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2618449

That is not even Gestalted, just add Factotum.

[from]

Pardon the late reply, and thank you all for responding!


Conventional wisdom for gestalt is to always go for 9th-level spells. Actually, thatÂ’s conventional wisdom in non-gestalt too.

If I was an orphaned changeling, IÂ’d find a rich family with a missing child and show up pretending to be that child with a case of amnesia.

There was an Egoist ACF in one of the old MindÂ’s Eye articles that gave non-changelings the Minor Change Shape ability. DonÂ’t know if that opens up any new race options for you.

I think psionics lends itself well to intrigue, since powers donÂ’t have somatic or material components.

Yeah, 9th-level spells is definitely more powerful and versatile - I'm trying for straight skillmonkey, though, with three sources of magic, Arcane 7th level SLAs from Factotum and Arcane and Divine 6th level spells from Chameleon, all "powered" by Intelligence. I considered Nar Demonbinder, that's 7 levels for 8th level spells, but the 7th and 8th level spells on that list felt a bit useless to the campaign theme, and I couldn't squeeze in 7 levels until Anthrowhale did his black magic.

Honestly, Changeling is mostly to get the Changeling Rogue Substitution Levels at this point. Minor Change Shape is absolutely useful for intrigue, but if I was going psionics (Which might be a good idea, Mindspy looks really interesting), I think I'd go Erudite rather than Psion/Egoist. Spell-to-Power beckons...



I'm not sure how you are handling multiple bloodlines, but it looks like you can potentially enter Chameleon at level 2 by taking your bloodline levels early and using the skill retraining rules in PHB II to satisfy the skill prereqs. Hence by character level 5 you'll be chameleon level 4 able to cast 3rd level spells with a caster level of (4+6)x2=20. In addition, after buying off your initial LA+1, you can pick up a level of the Lich savage progression class (online, now in the wayback machine) for an Int+2 after the buyoff and plan to buy it off at level 6 and a level in the half-dragon savage progression for another Int+2 with a plan to buy it off at level 6 (if I understand the rules right).

You might also consider fitting in some levels of Human Paragon early in the build, since the Ability Boost (i.e. another Int+2) pays off in extra skill points as the character builds and the extra feat is handy.

Nymph's Kiss is another feat which provides yet more skill points.

Overall, maybe open with Factotum 1/Major Gold Dragon 3/Human Paragon 1/Factotum 1/Half-dragon Savage Progression 1/Factotum 1//Changeling Rogue 1/Major Devil 3/Chameleon 1/Human Paragon 1/Lich Savage Progression 1/Human Paragon 1 with all bloodline levels taken between levels 1&2 (for 3K XP) a buyoff after level 3 (2K XP). That leaves you are character level 4, ECL 5, and ready to do another buyoff after level 6. You also have a +6 bonus to Int from class levels. Also take Nymph's Kiss at level 1, delaying Knowledge Devotion for Human Paragon 2. Together, these net you out at +4 skill points/level.

(Also, it's not clear to me that Changeling is worth it. The social benefits are nice, but the skill points are negative since you could instead pay 2 feats (the human bonus and human heritage) on open-minded for an extra 10 skill points and benefit from the human +1 skill point/level.)

Hmm, interesting idea, I hadn't considered retraining after "levelling" my Bloodlines, but before doing the actual level-up. And if I can "level" the Bloodlines between level 1 and 2 rather than before 3, then that opens up three extra levels, post-Chameleon...

I'm not well-versed with Savage Progressions (i.e., I don't understand them), I thought those were classes, but they can still be bought-off as LA? Interesting...I was doing both major bloodlines primarily for the +1 Intelligence both offer at level 15. An additional +4 would be very nice.

Spending extra experience on buy-offs is one thing, but spending three levels (say, those three freed up above) on Human Paragon would be painful, without a spellcasting class for the last two levels to boost. Bonus Feats and Ability bonuses are NICE extras, but they are extras - I'm (right now) primarily going for class features.

I hemmed and hawed quite a bit over Nymph's Kiss, but in the end it's an Exalted Feat - I was going for Neutral, somewhere around Chaotic and perhaps traveling towards Lawful.

Wow...that's hardcore TO. I approve! Hmm, I think the Chameleon side needs two levels of Chameleon before taking the Lich progression, to be able to use the Chameleon Bonus Feat for the prerequisite, Craft Wondrous Item. I don't know why I went with Knowledge Devotion at level 1, I think I believed it was a "level 1 only" feat.

Yeah, Changeling is getting ever more redundant. The build originally included Cabinet Trickster, but after I moved away from that to Uncanny Trickster and Exemplar, Changeling only added those extra...er, 10 skill points, from two levels in Changeling Rogue. And Minor Change Shape, of course, but Maat had an idea about that.

However...! With Savage Progression Templates, I'm sensing a new use for Changeling! Replace Knowledge Devotion with Racial Emulation, then look at the Transition Classes...there must be something there. ;)


Yeah, how two blood lines work really is going to depend on what level you take them and when you buy them off. First you are treating them as LA, which they really are not, but I have seen DM's allow LA-buy off with them.

So first question, how is LA buyoff working in your group? If a Major blood line is +3 LA, the earliest buy off points would be 3, 6, and 9. Unless you buy them off and consider your LA to be +0 after each bloodline level is gained and immediately bought off. Second problem is you have a +1 divine minion template, which would push one "side" of the build to +4. So you are looking at buying off at 3, 6, 9, and 12.

The next assumption I am making is you are mostly taking both blood levels at the same time and allowing you buy-off one LA from each bloodline. You are still going to have one level with Divine minion and nothing paired to it, so I guess take another +1LA. You would be best to stick to other Template as class (savage Progressions) things like Half-dragon or half-field since they are also acquired templates you dont have to take until you are ready to buy off. But using this approach, I would spread your two bloodlines over 4 levels. You cannot get the same thing from two classes at the same time in gestalt, so the bloodlines would not stack their levels add to stuff ability.

Overall I am not sure what all the templates are for. Just get as much crap as possible or that is part of the character idea. You don't have anything tricky things with bloodlines in your build either, beyond the standard + to caster level and skill cap.

I might try instead a slightly more focused idea, lets say Dragon
Maybe 3 Bloodline Gold Dragon//1 Any +1 template/Divine Minion+1 /Half-Dragon savage progression +1 or Phenric +2/ Half dragon +1

I would second spell casting to 9th level unless you are opposed to it. You could go Beguiler which is 6 skills points, large skill list, social based spells, and Int Spontaneous spell casting. Not the strongest, but not your skill focus.


I don't think Anthrowhale (nor myself) treat Bloodlines as LA. I think he's interpreting


Before a character with a bloodline reaches the indicated character level, he must take one class level of "bloodline." Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does[.]

as, "at any time before the level in the table, the character must take one 'bloodline' level", i.e. spending experience before levelling. Though whether or not "taking one class level of bloodline" actually lowers your experience, seeing as how your character's level doesn't actually increase, is unclear. ;)

Normally, unless you read the rules carefully, "leveling" a major bloodline happens before each of the levels 3, 6 and 12, respectively.

LA, on the other hand, follows the rules for Reducing Level Adjustments, which for the LA +1 from Divine Minion means it can be bought off after the character reaches Level 3/ECL 4. I think it costs 3000 XP rather than the 2000 suggested, though.

At that point, the character is Level 3 and ECL 3, so Anthrowhale suggests independent LA +1 for each side (is that possible/legal? Savage Progressions are savage...), to be bought off three levels later (at Level 6/ECL 7).

I was under the impression that template LA's applied to both "sides" of the Gestalt, if they don't, that definitely opens up new avenues! Another LA +1 on the "other side" is almost obligatory. Perhaps Deep or Dark?

I thought I was being a bit tricky by even including Bloodlines and skill/caster level shenanigans, but I guess my standards are not exactly up-to-par. ;)

Beguiler is sort of my go-to caster class; I really like it. However, the 6+Int skills is "only" the same as Factotum, so that made it significantly less interesting, what with my pure-Factotum "left side".


I might try instead a slightly more focused idea, lets say Dragon
Maybe 3 Bloodline Gold Dragon//1 Any +1 template/Divine Minion+1 /Half-Dragon savage progression +1 or Phenric +2/ Half dragon +1

I would second spell casting to 9th level unless you are opposed to it. You could go Beguiler which is 6 skills points, large skill list, social based spells, and Int Spontaneous spell casting. Not the strongest, but not your skill focus.

(1) Beguiler 1 // Rogue 1 (If you don't need sneak attack, consider the unearthed arcana bonus fighter feat trade off)
(2) Bloodline 1 // Half-dragon 1
(3) Beguiler 2 // Human Paragon 1
(4-1) Factotum 1 // Human Paragon 2 (LA Buy off 1, -3k points)
(5-1) Bloodline 2 // Divine Minion 1 (Skill Max 8)

Now you first buy-off can be at level 4 for 3k xp, and you would be level 4 at start. Half-dragon is added first because it is a +2 Int early. Human paragon can give you all the skills you are missing. Then maybe

(5) Factotum 2 // Human Paragon 3 (Skill Max 9)
(6) Beguiler 3 // Chameleon 1 (Assuming you can take prestige classes before level 5 as per the gestalt rules).
(7-1) Mindbender 1 // Factotum 3 (LA Buy off 2, -6k Points)

Then I would bring your last LA in right before you get to 9 HD

(7) Beguiler 4 // Chameleon 2
(8) Beguiler 5 // Chameleon 3
(9) Bloodline 3 // Template X
(10-1) Beguiler 6 // Chameleon 4 (LA Buy off 3, -9k Points)

(10-15) Beguiler 12 // Chameleon 10
(16) Beguiler 13 // Exemplar 1 (Can Be earlier)
(17) Marshal 1 // Wyrm Wizard 1
(18) Beguiler 14 // Wyrm Wizard 2
(19) Base Class 1 // Wyrm Wizard 3
(20) Beguiler 15 // Wyrm Wizard 4

You don't really need beguiler all the way to level 20, just the casting progression (same as human paragon). You only need one level of Exemplar, the skill mastery is all that is necessary from that class. Later Wyrm Wizard might be useful to add any killer spells you want to your list, but that was just more dragon focus (not necessary). Marshal add Cha bonus to something, a single ability score based skills or maybe Spell Penetration.

Of course this is a different direction. You could drop chameleon all together and put some factotum levels back in instead.

Totally crazy and different



That is not even Gestalted, just add Factotum.

Oh. Nice. Wyrm Wizard that late should give two spells from any class and level. Without, in Gestalt, costing any spellcasting progression. Minor detail: WW progresses spellcasting at odd levels, so the left hand side needs to be slightly reordered to match. I'd put the final four levels as Beguiler 14/Uncanny Trickster (Beguiler) 1-2/Marshal 1//Wyrm Wizard 1-4

However, as you say, it's very much an almost entirely different path being tread. It's basically Beguiler 5/Mindbender 1/Beguiler 14//Factotum 3/Chameleon 10 with a couple of extra bonuses (and a different build order). The focus is very much on the Arcane side of things, for better or for worse. Even if it probably gains skill points (thanks to the new Savage Progression Template trickery and higher Intelligence) overall, it still basically maxes out at 6 + Int skills per level.

Drusan Feylight, though...I'm not sure I had even heard of the Eldritch Master class before. And the caster level nonsense, I have no idea what is going on. Caster level 25 Sublime Chord with levels "wasted" on Cleric, Dread Necromancer and Eldritch Master? Is that Eldritch Master Combined Spells creating some weird effect? I am but a learner, master.

[Anthrowhale]

...
You are right about the first level buyoff costing 3K xp.

W.r.t. Bloodlines and Savage Progressions, I believe you just acquire both as per normal level advancement. Bloodlines do not change your ECL, so they just cost XP. Savage Progressions do give you a level adjustment. The nice thing about Savage Progressions is that you need not advance all the way through them sequentially. The real value of Bloodlines isn't some Int bonus at level 15, but rather allowing you to early entry many prestige classes.

W.r.t. the Craft Wondrous Item requirement for Lich, Human Paragon also gives you a bonus feat which you can retrain on level advancement as per PHB II retraining rules. However, I'm unclear on how _required_ the requirement is, since you don't seem to even use Craft Wondrous Item until you take the second level of Lich (which you won't do).

W.r.t. the interaction of ECL and gestalt, I believe most people just apply it to one side, but that's not terribly well specified, so consult with your DM. If I'm trying to maximize skills in a single class, I'd take them sequentially, with a buyoff every 3 levels.

W.r.t. Changeling Rogue, the extra skill points of a human instead make the skill point advantage at character level 5 be just 2, and by the time you reach level 20 (or if you use Human Paragon or both), Changeling provides significantly fewer skill points.

Nymph's Kiss doesn't limit the Chaotic/Lawful axis. CG with Nymph's Kiss is fine.

If you want to avoid Human Paragon levels, you might consider the Primordial Half-Giant. If your DM allows you to take just one level in the half-giant racial class (wording is unspecified), you can be an LA+0 race with an Int bonus of +4. Piling on the Savage Progressions and taking a +2 Int item, making yourself venerable and leveling up in Int you could have an Int of 32 at game start. (Probably not viable due to the Con penalty...)

More generally, you may want to look at the skillful full casters summary (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?579639-Skillful-Full-Casters).

[Analytica]

My respect for taking this level of cheese and still making something somewhat balanced. I wonder though how you see the racial background of this character coming together? They are:

- Descended from doppelgangers
- Descended from gold dragons
- Descended from devils
- Touched by magic
- Chosen and claimed by a deity with no link to any of the above

So basically, three different nonhuman heritages, one intentional and one nonintentional influence? What sort of twisted breeding experiment not only created this, but left it orphaned?

[Maat Mons]

Twisted breeding experiments always produce powerful psychopaths that kill all the experimenters and all but one of the other test subjects.

[Bphill561]

I don't think Anthrowhale (nor myself) treat Bloodlines as LA. I think he's interpreting

"Before a character with a bloodline reaches the indicated character level, he must take one class level of "bloodline." Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does."

as, "at any time before the level in the table, the character must take one 'bloodline' level", i.e. spending experience before levelling. Though whether or not "taking one class level of bloodline" actually lowers your experience, seeing as how your character's level doesn't actually increase, is unclear. ;)


Well I guess I misread bloodlines, but I don't see where it's level does not count towards ECL. I know it does not work like other levels, but it specifies exactly how it differs and is a level. Since no levels were listed in your build, I thought you must have gotten approval to treat it as LA and bought it off.

How LA is handled in each gestalt game, seems really different: both sides, one side, one side but no LA allowed on the other, etc. But I know why that was not in your level build matrix, you bought it off. I paired LA on both sides, because I thought that was how you were pairing bloodlines.



Drusan Feylight, though...I'm not sure I had even heard of the Eldritch Master class before. And the caster level nonsense, I have no idea what is going on. Caster level 25 Sublime Chord with levels "wasted" on Cleric, Dread Necromancer and Eldritch Master? Is that Eldritch Master Combined Spells creating some weird effect? I am but a learner, master.

You listed Dragon Magazine as being on the table so I included that build. Eldritch Master is in Dragon 280, it does not progress spell casting but adds it's level to spell effects of other arcane classes. The reason it is fun it lets you learn spells from another spell list. It also grants you a spell one level higher than you can cast in one class. So Bard 3 + 1 for DK gives you access to bard level 2 spells. Eldritch master grants you a 3rd level bard slot to qualify for Sublime Chord. Now your sublime chord can cast Bard, Cleric, and Sorcerer spells cherry picked as required.

Cleric with a neutral alignment can select Turn undead and Dread necro grants rebuke undead. A pool of 70 some turning attempts works well with Divine Metamagic. Also from dragon is Alternate Sourced spell, so you can convert your arcane Sublime Chord spells to divine to comply with Divine Metamagic requirements. So, that is why there are 2 less bard levels, 70 turning attempts for persistent spell (add extend for 48 hour spells). Other dragon magazine feats (Ability Enhancer and Fell Energy Spell) further boost all your transmuation spells ability score increases further (ie Charisma). Very little spell casting in combat, all buffs. Caster level Sublime Chord Progression 10+3 Bard+4 Practiced Spell caster. Eldritch master grants +4 for spell effect, plus items and spells added another +4 true caster level). Eldritch Master is a Weird Beast, but exactly the type of PrC that is fun in gestalt.

I only listed the build because it was my skill monkey build in another game. You could gestalt in Factotum. On and having all your abilities scores really high is where you get the pseudo skill points above 6+/ level in your gestalt case. Especially if you dip in 1 Marshal level, Cha Mod of +30 to Cha based skills again is pretty funny.

[bean illus]

I'm certainly not as fluent in TO as some of these writers, but i have looked at skill monkeys (not gestalt). I have a build somewhere that auto succeeds on most epic skill checks.

Chameleon is great because there are many spells that can boost skills, and Cham gets all of them.

I don't think you need Facto 20. Just stop at 3, 5, 8, or 11. Cunning brilliance is less valuable in a gestalt (just go get the class feature).

The Marshall level is near mandatory.

Let's not forget the luck domain granting a reroll.