(3.5e/PF1) Is there an actual advantage to a repeating crossbow?

[Shpadoinkle]

So let's assume you're only proficient with simple weapons, so you have to spend a feat to become proficient with either a repeating crossbow, or a bow.

Repeating crossbows (both light and heavy) load a 'magazine' that holds five bolts, but once those are exhausted you have to spend a full-round action to replace it.

Bows, on the other hand, allow you to draw and nock an arrow as a free action, and besides which, you can get composite bows that allow you to add your Strength bonus to damage.

So am I missing something? Is there a reason that repeating crossbows are exotic weapons that I'm overlooking? Would it be overpowered for them to just be martial weapons? Because while I understand they're uncommon, the actual operation (aim, pull trigger) is the same as a normal crossbow, which are simple weapons.

[Arkain]

Yes and no.

You are perfectly correct, bows are way superior (and you can use Manyshot with them, too, how nice!). What repeating crossbows have going for them is you can full attack until you run out of bolts, so you won't need Rapid Reload, for instance and you can also freely use Rapid Shot. So if you are somehow proficient with them, that's a decent advantage (e.g. Inquisitor gets that proficiency... alongside short- and longbows, of course). You can also pick it up, suck up the -4 and just keep on firing, no matter your strength, whereas a bow might penalize you. Ultimately I feel it's more a thing you want for the style, really.
So if we're talking spending a feat on either any kind of bow or repeating crossbows, the bow probably wins out. The optimal answer is probably to use the opportunity to become proficient with orcish hornbows, which are basically longbows with slightly less range, but the damage is roundabout one size category higher.

I wouldn't say it's overpowered in any way to make repeating crossbows martial weapons at all, if anything they might see some use that way, if only with wealthier NPCs. A good while back I tried to re-balance crossbows and ended up writing an alternate subsystem where "repeating" was merely something you could add onto an existing crossbow in addition to varying magazine sizes and whatnot, increasing its "complexity" by one step, so a light crossbow with the addition becomes a martial weapon, for instance. I never got to try it out, but it seemed okay at the time, though really, as you say the operation is identical anyhow and the real difference is the magazine and all it entails, so maybe even that is overkill and keeping it simple with the steep price tag is enough?

[Thunder999]

They don't really have an advantage over a bow, the game would likely be fine if they were martial weapons.
The advantage over normal crossbows is short lived, only 5 shots, and the longer reload after that really hurts anyone playing a crossbow archer, but would be a real advantage for a wizard who's only making one attack per round anyway and is happy to be able to move freely as he does so.

[Fizban]

The only reason to use crossbows over bows is if you have a low Str score. If you have low Str, then a repeating crossbow is how you get a ranged full attack without a damage penalty. Alternatively you would go for the Great Crossbow, which has more base damage and crit. Or once the Rapid Reload feat is printed you use that instead- giving up 1 point of damage from not using the heavy repeater, but more consistency since light crossbows are far more common item drops. Or use the Double Crossbow from the Races of the Dragon Web Enhancement, which holds two bolts and only requires the extra proficiency feat to use the fire both at once feature.

One should also note that while the basic bow does not say it requires a specific amount of Str to use, even the basic "composite" bow does explicitly require +0, so with negative Str you will also take a -2 attack penalty, and it would be entirely reasonable to apply that to basic bows as well. People without enough arm strength can't fire a warbow.

And this is perfectly reasonable since in real life, people with heroic strength and lifelong training for ranged weapons did not use crossbows. They were foot longbowmen or horse archers with composite bows. Crossbows are an equalizer for masses of people with less training, not an equivalent super elite heroic weapon.

I agree that there is little reason for fancy crossbows to be exotic weapons- the whole point is that they're simpler than training your entire life to use a big bow, and making them exotic rather than just expensive to keep them out of low level characters' hands is an unnecessary extra cost when the basic "has to reload eventually" problem already means they will never equal the lol 10,000 arrows bow style which is the only one the game actually supports. And realistically, "mighty" crossbows should be just as buildable, even moreso than bows with precise amounts of extra weight since the crossbow can still be cranked by anyone.

[Lilapop]

the basic bow does not say it requires a specific amount of Str to use


Projectile Weapons
Light crossbows, slings, heavy crossbows, shortbows, composite shortbows, longbows, composite longbows, hand crossbows, and repeating crossbows are projectile weapons. Most projectile weapons require two hands to use (see specific weapon descriptions). A character gets no Strength bonus on damage rolls with a projectile weapon unless it’s a specially built composite shortbow, specially built composite longbow, or sling. If the character has a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when he or she uses a bow or a sling.
Emphasis mine. You do in fact take a penalty, it just isn't listed in the description of the bow itself.

[Fizban]

Yes, it applies a damage penalty, obviously, that's literally the first thing I referred to. But not the extra -2 attack penalty mentioned in the composite bow, which is entirely appropriate because you can't fully draw the bow you can't aim any more than you can get full damage out of it because they're made to be fired from full draw. If anything sufficiently low Str should prevent you from even attempting.

[Particle_Man]

The only advantages I can see is if you get the exotic feat for free (like maybe an exoticist fighter that wants other exotic weapons anyhow) or if you are going to be firing ranged weapons from a prone position a *lot* for some reason (if the enemy can't reach you, prone ain't so bad).

There might possibly be some use for a sneak attack ranged build with the 3.5 crossbow sniper feat (at least it increases the range of SA).

[Darg]

There's not much point to a light repeating crossbow other than trying to keep weight down. A heavy crossbow uses a full-round action to reload anyway. Getting 5 attacks in before you have to reload is a win-win. That said, the A&EG has the Self-loading Crossbow which is a +1 heavy crossbow that takes a move action to reload and explicitly stacks with rapid reload feat to make it a free action. Repeating crossbows can be quite useful when your number of attacks are still low. After that, you can retrain the feat for something else.

[icefractal]

If they weren't exotic, I could see the case for a low-Strength character who wasn't going to make that many attacks using one. Like a backup weapon for a caster. Although for that purpose they should really be simple. Which I'd probably make them, because they're still not that good.

[aglondier]

Cast Abundant Ammunition on the ammo box...or, if you have a spare 4000gp, get an ammo box permanently enchanted with Abundant Ammunition. Never worry about running out of ammo ever again.

[El Dorado]

Cast Abundant Ammunition on the ammo box...or, if you have a spare 4000gp, get an ammo box permanently enchanted with Abundant Ammunition. Never worry about running out of ammo ever again.

This. If you are a martial character, you quickly run into the full round bottleneck that comes with reloading the ammo box. And there’s no trait or feat that lets you reduce that load time.