Representing Damage Effects Through Exhaustion Levels

[Spo]

Right now a creature or player hits just as hard when they are at full health as they do when they only have 1 hit point. What if there was a modified exhaustion level effect given to creatures/characters that have been injured?

1/2 hit points lost = disadvantages on ability checks and speed halved

3/4 hit points lost = disadvantage on attack rolls and and saving throws

10% hit points remaining = Speed reduced to 0

How do you think this would affect combat? In combat healing would be prioritized more. Having a high initiative would also be highly desirable. As both sides get injured combat would last more rounds (and perhaps be more narratively dramatic?).

Thoughts?

[Gignere]

This would make combat super deadly and running away impossible if the party gets into trouble short of using magic. This will be a massive nerf to martials and make the game even more caster focused.

Probably easier to just houserule if drop to zero you gain a level of exhaustion, if you had to use some kind of penalty.

[Zhorn]

Exhaustion is an area I think they are going in the right direction in oned&d, moving away from harsh breakpoints into a more gradual scale, and in going that direction I'm hoping to see it play a more frequent part in general play.

as per Gignere suggestion, gaining levels of exhaustion from hitting 0 is a decent house rule under the playtest's exhaustion system. Very harsh under the 5e 1-6 system, but with the more consistent gradual scale of 1-10 and no sudden breakpoints it feels more manageable.

Still, I'd like to see a little more from the exhaustion penalty.
Such as a -5ft movement per level. not the sudden drop to half or zero movement, but a gradual approach

divorcing the system from disadvantage is a good change. A few too many things are tied up in the advantage/disadvantage system.

[Sparky McDibben]

Right now a creature or player hits just as hard when they are at full health as they do when they only have 1 hit point. What if there was a modified exhaustion level effect given to creatures/characters that have been injured?

1/2 hit points lost = disadvantages on ability checks and speed halved

3/4 hit points lost = disadvantage on attack rolls and and saving throws

10% hit points remaining = Speed reduced to 0

How do you think this would affect combat? In combat healing would be prioritized more. Having a high initiative would also be highly desirable. As both sides get injured combat would last more rounds (and perhaps be more narratively dramatic?).

Thoughts?

So, this is a classic death spiral - once you start losing, you lose faster.

Another thing to keep in mind is: does this apply to the monsters, too? Especially for swarms of smaller monsters, this could tricky to keep track of.

I love the idea you've got, though! Could we just have monsters deal exhaustion as damage, instead?

[Lupine]

Could we just have monsters deal exhaustion as damage, instead?

Sickening radiance is already a spell.

[Leon]

Not really something that D&D has ever done, much of it is centered around being a Powertrip (looking at totally safe magic here) and recent editions have streamed lined that more so the chance of failure is slim

[Yakk]

Death Spirals make sense simulation wise.

The problem is that they lead to pretty non-exciting game play.

With a Death Spiral, the only fights you dare engage in are ones that you win easily. And that is true in real life -- it is dumb to get into any fight where the other side has a chance, unless you are desperate.

If you want excitement, you want your Death Spiral to not drop the drama down. You want it to amp it up.

So imagine a Death Spiral that both made you more vulnerable and made you deadlier. But maybe the deadliness is unreliable.

...

Doom:
When you are at 50% HP or less, you roll a Doom die; a 1d20 at the start of your turn. Once before the start of your next turn, you can swap a d20 roll in play that interacts with your PC (a save you forced, an attack on or by you, etc) with that die roll, and so can the DM. It replaces the result of the roll (not just one die in a advantage/disadvantage situation).

When you are at 10% HP or less, instead roll two Doom dice. Both can be used once by both you and the DM.

...

This ups the stakes. A 20 is really crazy, as it is an auto crit ... both for and against you. A 1 means you can force a failed save.

When you roll that 20, do you hide? When you roll that 1, do you run away and eat the OA knowing you can nullify it?

[PhantomSoul]

[Re: OP]
I'll echo that this is maybe a bit too death-spiral-y (in a way that feels dooming, not exhilarating). In particular, 0 speed means you can't even flee (50% is already rough), and disadvantage on pretty much anything just means you won't be as effective at attacking (attack rolls for martials, sometimes ability checks) and will be an easier target (saving throws, sometimes ability checks, reduced/nullified speed), plus will affect martials quite harshly (spell save DCs aren't neutered). So while I love having dynamic fights from things not being the same throughout, this might not quite be the way I'd like to do it...

---(
I love Exhaustion from falling to 0, as a parenthetical since it came up. Great way to offset how absolutely massively strong heal-from-down usually is compared to preventative heal-while-up.
)---

[Broadening]
I've toyed with (but not fully homebrewed) the idea of giving different classes their own optimal points -- but usually through making them especially potent in that range, rather than weaker in that range (though some combination of the two is probably optimal if designing from 0?). For example, that Barbarian powers up when Bloodied because they feed on the adrenaline and the threat and the emotion (e.g. bonus rage damage or a sort of power attack mechanic feel most thematic, perhaps increase ability to shrug off effects/attacks), whereas the Fighter wants to be at their most composed and healthy and in control (so their bonuses are typically when not bloodied). This doesn't need to be exclusive to martials (Sorcerers vs. Wizards give a nice comparison for example), but martials are where I think the "boost" tactic is most beneficial, whereas Wizards, well... :P And not all classes would need to do this even if the system exists for some classes, of course (e.g. maybe if Fighters should be treated as the "easy" class [we'll save that debate for elsewhere] the mechanic isn't used, which still thematically fits them being trained).

I do love Exhaustion, but I'm not sure this is the optimal spot for it... in large part because of what Zhorn said: Advantage/Disadvantage is already kind of everywhere, and I've seen comparisons of how that affects the game (e.g. groups that use Flanking as written vs. those who don't; groups who have more spell options for Advantage/Disadvantage). I'm hesitant to include too much of it as a blanket that everyone accesses even if a subset getting that is great.

[Psyren]

I'd recommend you use the 1DnD version of Exhaustion for this (if you must do it at all) rather than the 5e version. It's a stacking penalty to all your d20 tests and save DCs rather than affecting your ability to retreat, and is generally much easier to remember and less punishing.

[KorvinStarmast]

Right now a creature or player hits just as hard when they are at full health as they do when they only have 1 hit point. What if there was a modified exhaustion level effect given to creatures/characters that have been injured?

1/2 hit points lost = disadvantages on ability checks and speed halved

3/4 hit points lost = disadvantage on attack rolls and and saving throws

10% hit points remaining = Speed reduced to 0
Great way to scare off newbies and make low level play overly lethal. The death spiral has already been mentioned.
If that's the game you want to play, there is a way to do this that is even less complicated. Use the DMG optional rules for lingering injuries. And by the way, being overly numbers focused is how to ruin the game. We played that in one campaign and I disliked it because I had gotten to used to how the normal game plays. It was jarring. But we were starting to get the feel of it when the campaign ended due to DM burnout and RL scheduling issues.

[Leon]

Exhaustion would be a good part of adding some checks and balances to the magic system especially for the higher level of spells.

[Mastikator]

I'd use the Exhaustion system from the experts playtest UA.

The short form is this: when you have exhaustion you apply a negative modifier to every d20 test and your spell DC equal to exhaustion level. At level 10 you die.

Super easy to remember, punishment is scaling. I intend to use this as a house rule.

I'd rather say that if you reach 0 hp but don't die you gain 1 level of exhaustion. (maybe also if you are healed to full this individual exhaustion level goes away on a long or short rest, to make it less super punishing long term) I concur with others that going to 1/2 and 1/4 causing exhaustion would be too punishing. On the flip side I think that going down to 0 and getting rezzed with healing word without consequence makes HP too cheap, so imposing exhaustion that could go away quickly, and definitely goes away after 1 long rest would find the sweet spot.

Edit-


While you are subjected to the Exhausted Condition (known in older books as Exhaustion), you experience the following effects:
Levels of Exhaustion. This Condition is cumulative. Each time you receive it, you gain 1 level of exhaustion. You die if your exhaustion level exceeds 10.
d20 Rolls Affected. When you make a d20 Test (ability check, attack roll, saving throw), you subtract your exhaustion level from the d20 roll.
Spell Save DCs Affected. Subtract your exhaustion level from the Spell save DC of any Spell you cast.
Ending the Condition. Finishing a Long Restremoves 1 of your levels of exhaustion. When your exhaustion level reaches 0, you are no longer Exhausted.
Being reduced to 0 hp. When your character character is reduced to 0 hitpoints but don’t die you gain 1 level of exhaustion. This exhaustion is removed when you finish a long or short rest with full hitpoints.
The final bullet point is one that I added, the rest is 100% cribbed from the Expert playtest UA.