Skill check vs Ability check

[paladinn]

Hopefully a really silly question with a really simple answer..

Let's say I have a Rogue character. The rogue has proficiency in Dex and specifically in the Stealth skill. Btb, the rogue can't add the proficiency bonus twice unless s/he has Expertise in stealth. So what really is the point of stealth proficiency, when the rogue could logically just use the Dex proficiency, other than using it as a precursor for expertise? Same thing with a Ranger and Str or Athletics checks. OR do "ability checks" Only apply to specific skills and not to entire attributes? I've seen "ability check" applied to both skill checks and attribute checks.

Does any of that make sense?

Thanks for helping my addled brain..

[PhoenixPhyre]

Hopefully a really silly question with a really simple answer..

Let's say I have a Rogue character. The rogue has proficiency in Dex and specifically in the Stealth skill. Btb, the rogue can't add the proficiency bonus twice unless s/he has Expertise in stealth. So what really is the point of stealth proficiency, when the rogue could logically just use the Dex proficiency, other than using it as a precursor for expertise? Same thing with a Ranger and Str or Athletics checks. OR do "ability checks" Only apply to specific skills and not to entire attributes? I've seen "ability check" applied to both skill checks and attribute checks.

Does any of that make sense?

Thanks for helping my addled brain..

There is no general dex proficiency. Only Dex SAVE proficiency. Which only applies to saves, not ability checks.

And there are no skill checks in 5e. Only ability checks that may or may not include a source of proficiency, of which skills are one example.

[Tanarii]

The rogue has proficiency in Dex and specifically in the Stealth skill.
The only way to get proficiency in Dex ability checks is using the DMG variant rule. Which replaces skill proficiencies.

There are only three kinds of rolls in 5e: Attack rolls, Ability Checks, and Saving throws.
There's no such thing as a Skill check.

Ability checks can get a proficiency bonus if you have a skill that applies. So if you have Stealth skill proficiency, and you make a Dexterity (Stealth) Ability check, you can add proficiency if you have proficiency in the Stealth skill.


There is no general dex proficiency. Only Dex SAVE proficiency. Which only applies to saves, not ability checks.Ah yes, that's probably the source of the confusion.

[paladinn]

I've actually played in a 5e game which used the DMG variant. But it didn't register that it was a Variant. And I also play C&C, which uses attribute proficiencies.

Still, it's not a bad idea to let a character have proficiency in an entire attribute and let him/her develop expertise in a specific skill.

Pondering..

[Theodoxus]

I've actually played in a 5e game which used the DMG variant. But it didn't register that it was a Variant. And I also play C&C, which uses attribute proficiencies.

Still, it's not a bad idea to let a character have proficiency in an entire attribute and let him/her develop expertise in a specific skill.

Pondering..

This is basically the route I'm heading with my homebrew. I combined 5E with AGE Fantasy (and a few other, smaller titles) and created an initial list of 60 skills... realizing that it was getting a little nuts (and characters would need something like 10-15 initial skills to feel useful), I swapped over to the attribute variant. I kept the list of skills and their usual attribute as examples. But you raise an interesting point in granting expertise in specific skills... which would be a lot less powerful than expertise in an attribute - or tossing out the idea completely. Though I suspect expertise, being relatively rare, would only be used for the most rolled (Perception) or most useful (Stealth) anyway...

Off/side topic: I also doubled the number of attributes to 12 and eliminated base stats, keeping only modifiers (ala AGE). So 60+ skills isn't outright outrageous (10 of them are combat related). But I still think dropping skills specifically and letting the player describe what they want to do sans names and then the DM determines which attribute would apply (allowing for the player to disagree/plead for a different attribute) should nearly eliminate all the questionable cases.