"Stacks with Favored Enemy" and other questions.

[bean illus]

Starting with erratta; Do all 3 5 enemies give +2 instead of +1?

About Stalker of Kharash, what does "This bonus stacks with any other favored enemy bonus" mean?

Shadow Scout (Oriental Adventures) says "and the bonus associated with every previously selected favored enemy goes up by +1. The bonus for previously selected enemies increases every time the new bonus goes up." Is this +2? Does it double stack with FE Evil?

[Biggus]

I'm not sure which errata you're referring to, but in 3.5 ranger Favored Enemies give +2, other classes may give other amounts.

With FE: Evil, I assume it means for example that if you have FE: Evil +1 from Stalker of Kharash and FE: Dragons +2 from Ranger, you get a +3 bonus vs evil dragons. This is in contrast to if Ranger FE bonuses, which don't stack with each other.

Oriental Adventures is a 3.0 book, FE worked differently there, the Shadow Scout's FE works like the 3.0 Ranger's. The OA 3.5 update in Dragon Magazine changed the Shadow Scout's ability so that it's a +2 increase each time, but only applies to the FE selected at 1st level.

[Venger]

Yes, that's how SoK's FE stacks.

[bean illus]

Ranger SO underperforms, but it's SO classic. I keep coming back to it.

In my gaming experience, multiclass penalties are enforced, but loosely. The players roll their eyes at the lack of elegance, and the DM keeps you one character level behind the party. No big deal.

But i still can't fish damage out of favored enemy.

I have a build I'm working on that includes Dragon magazine, UA, and 3.0 material. But even then, without Mystic Ranger, it has trouble reaching T3.

[Doctor Despair]

Ranger SO underperforms, but it's SO classic. I keep coming back to it.

In my gaming experience, multiclass penalties are enforced, but loosely. The players roll their eyes at the lack of elegance, and the DM keeps you one character level behind the party. No big deal.

But i still can't fish damage out of favored enemy.

I have a build I'm working on that includes Dragon magazine, UA, and 3.0 material. But even then, without Mystic Ranger, it has trouble reaching T3.

With Dragon Mag, a character with five levels in Ranger can have FE (Evil) +3.

Add on a spirit pouch and it's +5.

Add on a Girdle of Hate and it's +10.

If your original favored enemy overlaps, it's +14.

Add on Solitary Hunter and it's at least +10 to hit and to damage.

Add on Wise to your Ways and it's +10 to saves against most of their stuff.

Add on Favored Dodge and you get +10 dodge to your AC.

Add on Nemesis and automatically know who is evil and where they are within 60 feet (and get extra damage).

Foe Hunter levels give you 15+class level SR against your FE (that stack with your preexisting SR!)

If it's just damage you're worried about, Favored Power Attack is a great tool for that

Rangers also have lots of spell support for automatically threatening/confirming crits

[Biggus]

Add on a Girdle of Hate and it's +10.

Add on Wise to your Ways and it's +10 to saves against most of their stuff.

Add on Favored Dodge and you get +10 dodge to your AC.


Where are these from?

[bean illus]

With Dragon Mag, a character with five levels in Ranger can have FE (Evil) +3.

Add on Favored Dodge and you get +10 dodge to your AC.

Add on Nemesis and automatically know who is evil and where they are within 60 feet (and get extra damage).

Foe Hunter levels give you 15+class level SR against your FE (that stack with your preexisting SR!)



What's the Dragon Mag +3 FE Evil thing?

Dodge and nemesis are good, but feats are short. I'm still hoping for Scout 3, and I'm eyeing Stalker of Kharash 5, and Shadow Scout 3. Track Evil and Detect Enemy sound super extra rangery.

I forgot how well Foe Hunter works (i think), but I'm short on levels. I'll look again.

[Doctor Despair]

Where are these from?

1. Dragon 138
2 Ghostwalk
3 Dragon 335


What's the Dragon Mag +3 FE Evil thing?

I phrased that poorly. You don't need dragon mag to get +3; the fifth level of ranger, taken after your second level in Stalker, allows you to improve ANY favored enemy you have by 2.



Dodge and nemesis are good, but feats are short. I'm still hoping for Scout 3, and I'm eyeing Stalker of Kharash 5, and Shadow Scout 3. Track Evil and Detect Enemy sound super extra rangery.

I forgot how well Foe Hunter works (i think), but I'm short on levels. I'll look again.

I mean, getting FE (Evil) is expensive. If you're going in on it, you probably want at least one feat that actually synergizes with it.

If you're going Scout 3 with a ranger base, take Swift Hunter and maybe Crossbow Sniper. Nemesis would blend well there.

[Gorthawar]

How does improved favorite enemy interact with the different favorite enemies stacking? Does it apply twice, once for FE evil and once for FE dragon for example when fighting an evil dragon?

[Doctor Despair]

How does improved favorite enemy interact with the different favorite enemies stacking? Does it apply twice, once for FE evil and once for FE dragon for example when fighting an evil dragon?

Sadly no. You would deal +3 damage to any favored enemy you have. It's not +3/favored enemy type or anything like that. Having an overlapping FE (like an evil dragon, for example) would just result in +3 damage as per normal.

[pabelfly]

Ranger SO underperforms, but it's SO classic. I keep coming back to it.

In my gaming experience, multiclass penalties are enforced, but loosely. The players roll their eyes at the lack of elegance, and the DM keeps you one character level behind the party. No big deal.

But i still can't fish damage out of favored enemy.

I have a build I'm working on that includes Dragon magazine, UA, and 3.0 material. But even then, without Mystic Ranger, it has trouble reaching T3.

Swift Hunter is probably the best way to make use of Favored Enemy.

If you're going Favored Enemy: Evil, I'd consider the Nemesis feat, so you can detect evil enemies even behind walls or when they're invisible.

[Doctor Despair]

Nemesis on a character who is incorporeal/burrowing/etc with a ranged build using seeking, brilliant energy arrows could be neat. Shoot through walls with unerring accuracy against evil creatures.

To save on WBL, you could replicate it less effectively with effective binder level 7 for Andras (at-will smite, 5 round cooldown) and take Awesome Smite to ignore concealment that way, with the feat Ranged Smite to use it on an arrow. Seeking is only +1, but it does reduce the cost to enhance the bow from +6 to +5. Brilliant energy is so needlessly expensive.

Hmm... you could probably negate the need for brilliant energy by making melee attacks. If you're incorporeal, a ghost touch reach weapon with the smiting technique detailed above would work. Again, it's only one attack every five rounds, but they literally can't respond, so... I suppose that's neat. Still not as cool as shooting lasers at evil creatures through walls though.

[bean illus]

Swift Hunter is probably the best way to make use of Favored Enemy.

If you're going Favored Enemy: Evil, I'd consider the Nemesis feat, so you can detect evil enemies even behind walls or when they're invisible.

Nemesis is great. How do you think it compares to Shadow Scout's Detect enemy ability, when combined with Scent evil?


Nemesis on a character who is incorporeal/burrowing/etc with a ranged build using seeking, brilliant energy arrows could be neat. Shoot through walls with unerring accuracy against evil creatures.


That's great, from a certain perspective, but it doesn't feel as ranger as i hope. Right now I'm looking at Track Evil and Detect Enemy. As i see it, that allows a spirit pouch to detect any favored enemy at 60'.


Sadly no. You would deal +3 damage to any favored enemy you have. It's not +3/favored enemy type or anything like that. Having an overlapping FE (like an evil dragon, for example) would just result in +3 damage as per normal.

I'm going to read that more liberally. I admittedly tend to liberal reading with lower tiers.




Benefit

You deal an extra 3 points of damage to your favored enemies. This benefit stacks with any existing favored enemy bonus gained from another class.

This explicitly stacks with any existing FE bonus, and Stalker of Kharash explicitly "stacks with any other favored enemy bonus the stalker might have".

Kharash 2 is expensive, before even improved favored enemy. It's not bad, but it hooks you into more Stalker, and less FE. I see Kharash as a 2 or 6 level class. A +1 to evil stuff?

I suppose your DM could slip up and send a evil undead with casting, and the stacking would be +9, but a ranger at those levels needs a +9 against a liche. Sure, at E7 it's overkill, but it advances slowly after that.

Of course it's up to the table. If your rangers lag behind, try stacking IFE.

Again. I admit there are better optimizers than i, but i have trouble building truly scary rangers. By the time they come together the wizards are 12th level, and dungeon crashers are rolling double handfuls. Rangers get a +9 to find the railroad tracks that comes with a huge feat tax.

[ShurikVch]

Dodge and nemesis are good, but feats are short.
Nemesis can be gained as a bonus feat on 3rd level of Sworn Slayer PrC (Dragon #324) - except it would detect only the "Sworn Foe" (which you choose at the class entry)

Anyway, those class features should stack with Favored Enemy:
Abolisher (Lords of Madness): Favored Enemy (aberrations) - stacks with FE (aberrations) from any other source(s)
Ancestral Avenger (Dragon #278): Drow Bane - stacks with bonuses of Ranger's FE (drow)
Cyran Avenger (Five Nations): Enemy Region - stacks with bonuses of Ranger's FE
Darkwater Knight (Dragon #314): Favored Enemy (Aquatic) - stacks with FE from any other class(es)
Darkwood Stalker (Complete Warrior): Ancient Foe - stacks with bonuses of Ranger's FE
Deadgrim (Magic of Eberron): Favored Enemy (Undead) - stacks with FE (undead) from any other class(es)
Fiend Slayer (Dragon #287): Fiend Hunting - stacks with bonuses of Ranger's FE
Gnome Giant-Killer (Dragon #291): Favored Enemy (Giant) - stacks with Ranger's FE (giant)
Goliath Liberator (Races of Stone): Favored Enemy (Giant) - stacks with FE (giant) from any other class(es)
Harper Paragon (Player's Guide to Faerûn): Favored Enemy (Evil) - stacks with FE from any other class(es)
Imaskari Vengeance Taker (Underdark): Target of Vengeance - half of the bonus can be added to Ranger's FE
Impure Prince (Magic of Eberron): Favored Enemy (aberrations) - stacks with FE (aberrations) from any other source(s)
Knight of the Chalice (Complete Warrior): Fiendslaying - stacks with FE
Luminaire (Dragon #315): Favored Enemy (Aberration, Construct, Magical Beast, Monstrous Humanoid, Evil Outsider, or Undead) - stacks with FE from any other source(s)
Mortal Hunter (Book of Vile Darkness): Mortal Hunting - stacks with bonuses of Ranger's FE
Mythic Exemplar (Complete Champion): Archetype Advancement (Orsos) - stacks with FE (aberrations or chaotic outsider) from any other source(s)
Planar Champion (Manual of the Planes): Favored Plane - stacks with bonuses of Ranger's FE
Ranger Knight of Furyondy (Dragon #317): Favored Enemy - stacks with FE from any other class(es)
Swanmay (Book of Exalted Deeds): Favored Enemy - stacks with FE from any other source(s)
Sworn Slayer (Dragon #324): Sworn Foe and Animosity are both stacks with bonuses of Ranger's FE (and with each other)
Totemic Demonslayer (Dragon #354): Favored Enemy (Evil Outsider) - stacks with FE (evil outsider) from any other source(s)
Tribal Protector (Sword and Fist): Tribal Enemy - stacks with bonuses of Ranger's FE
Non-stacking benefit: Avenging Executioner (Complete Scoundrel): Rapid Intimidation - add FE bonus to Intimidate checks, and demoralize as a Move action

"Favored Enemy"-related magical items:
Bane Blind armor (Arms and Equipment Guide) - constant effect of Improved Invisibility versus one of your Favored Enemies (also blocks Scent - but not any other senses); +3 bonus
Raptor Arrow [relic] (Magic Item Compendium) - +1 returning (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#returning) arrows also count as Bane (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#bane) arrows against the targeted foe - presuming you worship Ehlonna and either sacrifice 4th-level spell slot, or have the True Believer feat; 6,006 gp
Hunting weapon (Masters of The Wild) - FE damage bonus is doubled; +1 bonus
Enemy Spirit Pouch (Magic Item Compendium) - +2 to all FE bonuses for one type of Favored Enemy; 2,100 gp
Necklace of Favored Enemy Detection (Masters of The Wild) - hums when one of your Favored Enemies are around; Concentration allow to know the direction to the nearest FE withing the range; 34,000 gp; detection range - 1 mile

[Doctor Despair]

midate checks, and demoralize as a Move action

"Favored Enemy"-related magical items:
Bane Blind armor (Arms and Equipment Guide) - constant effect of Improved Invisibility versus one of your Favored Enemies (also blocks Scent - but not any other senses); +3 bonus
,,,

Hunting weapon (Masters of The Wild) - FE damage bonus is doubled; +1 bonus


Bane Blind was updated in the MIC in a sad way. Nerfed to standard invis 3x/day for a designated type or subtype, but affects all nonmagical senses, but only lasts for 10 rounds/use, but only costs +15,000gp.

Likewise, the MIC came after the Hunting enhancement: it's a +1 bonus, and it "only" increases your FE damage by 4 rather than doubling it.

[bean illus]

Nemesis can be gained as a bonus feat on 3rd level of Sworn Slayer PrC (Dragon #324) - except it would detect only the "Sworn Foe" (which you choose at the class entry)


Enemy Spirit Pouch (Magic Item Compendium) - +2 to all FE bonuses for one type of Favored Enemy; 2,100 gp
Necklace of Favored Enemy Detection (Masters of The Wild) - hums when one of your Favored Enemies are around; Concentration allow to know the direction to the nearest FE withing the range; 34,000 gp; detection range - 1 mile

Sworn Slayer is tempting. I don't know how to get Sworn Foe for FE Evil, but a DM might swing the Knowledge (arcana) requirement for FE Arcane.

Enemy spirit pouch is the way to go. For 2,100 just get one of everything, and you immediately apply your feats and synergies. If it's a spellcasting evil elf, you have +2 +1 +3, and maybe more to hit, damage, saves, etc.


Bane Blind was updated in the MIC in a sad way. Nerfed to standard invis 3x/day for a designated type or subtype, but affects all nonmagical senses, but only lasts for 10 rounds/use, but only costs +15,000gp.

Likewise, the MIC came after the Hunting enhancement: it's a +1 bonus, and it "only" increases your FE damage by 4 rather than doubling it.

Bane blind still sounds good, if you could swing FE Arcanists.

Any way to apply Hunting to either FE Evil or FE Arcanists?

[ShurikVch]

Any way to apply Hunting to either FE Evil or FE Arcanists?
Hunting - as far as I get it from MIC version - works not for some particular type of Favored Enemy, but for all Favored Enemies - however many you may have. It shouldn't stack (i. e. you wouldn't get +8 damage against Evil arcanists) - but otherwise, would work with such as FE (Evil), FE (Arcanists), and FE (Organization)

[bean illus]

Hunting - as far as I get it from MIC version - works not for some particular type of Favored Enemy, but for all Favored Enemies - however many you may have. It shouldn't stack (i. e. you wouldn't get +8 damage against Evil arcanists) - but otherwise, would work with such as FE (Evil), FE (Arcanists), and FE (Organization)

Nice.
I wonder how it's worded? Will Solitary Hunting activate +4 attack? Skills?

[bean illus]

Hunting - as far as I get it from MIC version - works not for some particular type of Favored Enemy, but for all Favored Enemies - however many you may have. It shouldn't stack (i. e. you wouldn't get +8 damage against Evil arcanists) - but otherwise, would work with such as FE (Evil), FE (Arcanists), and FE (Organization)

Nice.
I wonder how it's worded? Will Solitary Hunting activate +4 attack? Skills?

How's the Girdle work? Choose a FE you already have? FE Evil?

[ShurikVch]

Nice.
I wonder how it's worded?
The wording is:

HUNTING
Price: +1 bonus
Property: Weapon
Caster Level: 6th
Aura: Moderate; (DC 18) abjuration
Activation: —
This weapon bears toothlike inscriptions across its surface.
A hunting weapon increases your bonus on weapon damage rolls by 4 against your favored enemies (see the ranger class feature; PH 47).
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, greater magic fang.
Cost to Create: Varies.



Will Solitary Hunting activate +4 attack? Skills?
I don't completely understand what's you asking there.
But I would try to answer: Solitary Hunting and skill bonuses are always "on" by default - nothing to activate there (although you can redistribute the amount of bonus to different FE - like the PH example: 10th-level Ranger can have +4/+4/+2 bonuses for their FE, or redistribute them as +6/+2/+2)
Hunting weapon improves only damage inflicted on the Favored Enemy - attack rolls or skill checks shouldn't be affected


How's the Girdle work? Choose a FE you already have? FE Evil?
Yes - you chose one of your Favored Enemies (or "racial enemies" - like dwarven "+1 on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids, +4 dodge bonus to AC against monsters of the giant type") at the moment of activation - it doubles all FE(/RE) bonuses against the chosen Enemy

[bean illus]

...
(although you can redistribute the amount of bonus to different FE - like the PH example: 10th-level Ranger can have +4/+4/+2 bonuses for their FE, or redistribute them as +6/+2/+2)
Hunting weapon improves only damage inflicted on the Favored Enemy - attack rolls or skill checks shouldn't be affected


Yes - you chose one of your Favored Enemies (or "racial enemies" - like dwarven "+1 on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids, +4 dodge bonus to AC against monsters of the giant type") at the moment of activation - it doubles all FE(/RE) bonuses against the chosen Enemy

So, Hunting weapon +4 damage to all FE, but damage only (not Solitary Hunting or skills). Nice. Works well on higher crit builds.

Girdle doubles all bonuses on one enemy. Got it. Possibly FE Arcane, which could easily have +4 +3 = 7 × 2 = 14 at 6th (though couldn't afford the belt).

[bean illus]

So, Hunting weapon +4 damage to all FE, but damage only (not Solitary Hunting or skills). Nice. Works well on higher crit builds.

Girdle doubles all bonuses on one enemy. Got it. Possibly FE Arcane, which could easily have +4 +3 = 7 × 2 = 14 at 6th (though couldn't afford the belt).

So among what stacks

FE Not ... ... +0
Spirit pouch +1
Imp FE ... ... +3
Shadow Scout +2
... ... Total = +6 (vs anyone you can get a pouch for)

FE (Arcane?) +2 (likely +4 or more)
Imp FE ... ... +3
Spirit pouch +2
Shadow Scout +2 (level 4)
... ... Total +11 (or +9 for any FE +2)

FE Evil ... ... +1
Shadow Scout +2 ?
Imp FE ... ... +3
Spirit pouch +2
... ... Total = +8 (or +5 when stacking (w/o IFE))

Girdle ... ×2 FE boni (Evil) = +16

Hunting +4 dam to all FE

__________
That's really not bad for attack and damage

FE Pouch +6 (non evil/arcane)
FE Other ... +9
FE Arcane +11
FE Evil ... +8 ×2 = 16

Hunting +4 dam to all FE
__________
We're not stackin IFE, nor Spirit pouch. Nevertheless, if it's Evil Arcane then the Bonus is ...
+20 attack, +26 damage

A Two-handed Leaping Favored Power Attack Pounce scores ×4 damage. PA +10 = 40, and on a crit ×3 = 120 (PA damage alone).

(Can that be done by 12th level? Let's go look)

[pabelfly]

Nemesis is great. How do you think it compares to Shadow Scout's Detect enemy ability, when combined with Scent evil?

Nemesis:
- Always on
- Doesn't require a concentration check
- Works on only one favored enemy type which you need to select in advance

Detect Enemy (Evil) + Scent Evil
- Detect Enemy requires a concentration check and takes several rounds to get full effect. Scent Evil largely bypasses this, unless you have creatures that can burrow, you're swimming, or other niche situations.
- Detect Enemy can tell you strength of your enemy
- Detect Enemy works on any favored enemy type, not just "evil"

Detect Enemy and Scent Evil seems slightly better, but Nemesis is much easier to get and doesn't take up class levels. To get Detect Enemy Evil you've done five levels of whatever, two levels of Stalker of Kharash to get Favored Enemy Evil, then three levels of Shadow Scout and spent an extra feat to get into the class. I'd get Nemesis instead and spend three class levels on something else instead.

How are you getting Scent (Evil)? I would have thought Wild Shape Ranger + the Scent feat would be the easiest way to do this, unless I'm missing a particular way to do this?

Wild Shape Ranger + Scent feat would be the easiest way to get to Scent, and with enough hit dice and maybe one or two "Extra Wild Shape" feats you could have this always on though.


Ranger SO underperforms, but it's SO classic. I keep coming back to it.

In my gaming experience, multiclass penalties are enforced, but loosely. The players roll their eyes at the lack of elegance, and the DM keeps you one character level behind the party. No big deal.

But i still can't fish damage out of favored enemy.

I have a build I'm working on that includes Dragon magazine, UA, and 3.0 material. But even then, without Mystic Ranger, it has trouble reaching T3.

Best way to use Favored Enemy is with Swift Hunter, IMO. Scout's Skirmish damage doesn't work against creatures immune to critical hits but a Swift Hunter specifically can use Favored Enemy choices to bypass this issue.

You could also forget Favored Enemy, and go with Education + Knowledge Devotion and get attack and damage bonuses based on your Knowledge rolls. Ranger should have enough skill points to fully invest in all six required Knowledge types.

[bean illus]

I'd get Nemesis instead and spend three class levels on something else instead.

How are you getting Scent (Evil)? I would have thought Wild Shape Ranger + the Scent feat would be the easiest way to do this, unless I'm missing a particular way to do this?

Scent of Evil (Su): is a 1st-level Stalker ability. It comes before FE Evil at 2nd.



Best way to use Favored Enemy is with Swift Hunter, IMO. Scout's Skirmish damage doesn't work against creatures immune to critical hits but a Swift Hunter specifically can use Favored Enemy choices to bypass this issue.

You could also forget Favored Enemy.

Swift Hunter is great. I'm sure I'll build them many more times.

I've got my eye on Track Evil at Stalker 5, which comes with Hide plain sight at 4th. It just seems SO cool from a ranger perspective. This is like Aragorn tracking Golum 4 months behind, just by his evil aura.

Detect Enemy fits well in that build (assuming FE Evil, FE Arcane, and access to multiple other FE and spirit pouches). Shadow Scout 4 also grants FE (all) +2, which is a decent boon to the stacking of FE with Spirit Pouch +Evil, as well at Detect Enemy.

So my current goal, before going back to swift Hunter, is to see what i can do with Stalker of Kharash 5 and Shadow Scout 4. That may include Swift Hunter 10-11.

[pabelfly]

Scent of Evil (Su): is a 1st-level Stalker ability. It comes before FE Evil at 2nd.



Swift Hunter is great. I'm sure I'll build them many more times.

I've got my eye on Track Evil at Stalker 5, which comes with Hide plain sight at 4th. It just seems SO cool from a ranger perspective. This is like Aragorn tracking Golum 4 months behind, just by his evil aura.

Detect Enemy fits well in that build (assuming FE Evil, FE Arcane, and access to multiple other FE and spirit pouches). Shadow Scout 4 also grants FE (all) +2, which is a decent boon to the stacking of FE with Spirit Pouch +Evil, as well at Detect Enemy.

So my current goal, before going back to swift Hunter, is to see what i can do with Stalker of Kharash 5 and Shadow Scout 4. That may include Swift Hunter 10-11.

Interesting idea, I'd like to see what you end up doing. You are losing nine levels of Skirmish for it though, or 3d6 + 2AC.

[ShurikVch]

How about the 2-levels dip in Harper Paragon (Player's Guide to Faerûn)? They got Favored Enemy (Evil) at 2nd level - which would stack with SoK's FE (Evil) -, Detect Evil at will, and full spellcasting progression
The only problem is - prerequisite feats: Sacred Vow and Vow of Obedience. Can you fit them in your build? (If no, then note: Sword of Righteousness PrC gets bonus [exalted] feat at every level... :smallwink:)

[pabelfly]

How about the 2-levels dip in Harper Paragon (Player's Guide to Faerûn)? They got Favored Enemy (Evil) at 2nd level - which would stack with SoK's FE (Evil) -, Detect Evil at will, and full spellcasting progression
The only problem is - prerequisite feats: Sacred Vow and Vow of Obedience. Can you fit them in your build? (If no, then note: Sword of Righteousness PrC gets bonus [exalted] feat at every level... :smallwink:)

You shouldn't need to dip any more, you just need to get more Favored Enemy bonuses and add the other +2 to FE (Evil)

[bean illus]

Interesting idea, I'd like to see what you end up doing. You are losing nine levels of Skirmish for it though, or 3d6 + 2AC.

... and a FE boost or 2. Swift Hunter really does rock, with potentially 17 levels of ranger spells.


How about the 2-levels dip in Harper Paragon (Player's Guide to Faerûn)? They got Favored Enemy (Evil) at 2nd level - which would stack with SoK's FE (Evil) -, Detect Evil at will, and full spellcasting progression
The only problem is - prerequisite feats: Sacred Vow and Vow of Obedience. Can you fit them in your build? (If no, then note: Sword of Righteousness PrC gets bonus [exalted] feat at every level... :smallwink:)

I've looked at Harper Paragon. It doesn't draw my eye, partially because those feats are junk, and it's a 3/4 BAB, but also because what kind of ranger wants an alignment aura? Not this one.


You shouldn't need to dip any more, you just need to get more Favored Enemy bonuses and add the other +2 to FE (Evil)

I'm not sure you can do that. I'm happy to believe you.


Favored Enemy

At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2.

Obviously this says "any".

Am i correct that a Paladin (etc) with FE can NOT stack +2 on a Ranger FE progression, or on FE Evil? I'm under the understanding that classes and PRCs that add FE Y at 1st level don not also add +2 to "any one favored enemy".

[Gorthawar]

A bit far fetched but if you look at the pathfinder rules for FE they grant a skill bonus to the relevant knowledge skills to identify the FE which is a very sensible houserule for 3.5 imho. This could be decent with knowledge devotion.

[pabelfly]

I'm not sure you can do that. I'm happy to believe you.



At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2.

Since you can pick any one favoured enemy, I'd say this includes FE: Evil.


Am i correct that a Paladin (etc) with FE can NOT stack +2 on a Ranger FE progression, or on FE Evil? I'm under the understanding that classes and PRCs that add FE Y at 1st level don not also add +2 to "any one favored enemy".

If you get Favored Enemy progression you could at the fifth level, since the mechanics are as Ranger.

[ShurikVch]

Am i correct that a Paladin (etc) with FE can NOT stack +2 on a Ranger FE progression, or on FE Evil? I'm under the understanding that classes and PRCs that add FE Y at 1st level don not also add +2 to "any one favored enemy".
I checked this, and it looks like it's case-by-case: while Luminaire, Ranger Knight of Furyondy, and Swanmay are get full benefits from their FE (i. e. floating +2 applicable to any of their Favored Enemies), other examples - not so much (for some of classes with set FE - like "Devils" for Holy Judge Paladin - it directly said to don't give bonuses for any other FE)
Heck, even 3.5 update for Extra Favored Enemy feat says it don't progressing neither itself, nor any other FE


what kind of ranger wants an alignment aura? Not this one.
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your ranger would still get an alignment aura anyway: prerequisite for Stalker of Kharash is Favored of the Companions [exalted] feat

Aura of Good: A character with at least one exalted feat radiates an aura of good with a power equal to her character level (see the detect good spell), as if she were a paladin or a cleric of a good deity

[bean illus]

I'm seeing some other options, partly due to this threads suggestions.

This is a basket full of bent rules, but hopefully i didn't break so many that the build doesn't work.

I pick up Anointed Knight and Ancestral Relic, as i always do when entering Kharash. The alternative is 4 levels of Scout for Alertness. Use the money saved from Ancestral Relic to pay for the Girdle of Hate Evil, Spirit Pouches, and the Keen Scabbard.

I like that this build cast 2nd level spells as Ranger 8 (the next build doesn't).

There's wording in Shadow Scout mentioning 'applies to all previously chosen' FE, so Kharash gets slipped in earlier so FE Evil is certain to be covered.

I tried to make sense of the power curve. Hide in Plain Sight and Track Evil come early enough to use, Ranger casting 8th and Detect Enemy (any) before the Hated Enemy - Arcanists capstones DR 5/Arcanists, and SR 15/Arcanists.

So what do we get?
5 Favored enemies. A magic falchion that gets updated every time your in town. Track flying, swimming, ethereal creatures by their aura. Leaping Pounce Favored Power Attack. Solitary Hunting grants FE bonus to attack and damage.

+6 FE vs anyone you can a Spirit Pouch for. +9 if they're also a +2 FE. Of course FE Evil is FE +8 If stacking -5 for overlapping Spirit Pouch and Imp FE).

With Girdle, Hunting enchantment, Keen Scabbard we get +16 attack, +20 damage, and more if stacked. 15-20 crit ×3 @ 19 BAB, plenty of PA crits springing up. Bane 2d6 and Rancor 2d6 steadily building damage.


LevelClassBase Attack BonusFort SaveReflex SaveWill SaveSkills & ReqsFeatsClass FeaturesFavored Enemies 1st Ranger (CM, Ds #347) 1 2 2 0 6+ Gain Disable Device. Favor of champion, WF falchion Arcane hunter, Solitary Hunter, Trapfinding, wild empathy Arcanists +22nd Ranger 2 (#341) 1 1 1 0 6+ BF Power attack Strong-arm (PA) 03rd Paladin (UA, #349) 1 2 0 0 2+: Lose Know (roy, nobi), Gain Surv, Know (planes) BF Track, Ancestral relic Detect evil, FE outsider, undead Undead +2, Outsider (evil) +14th Barbarian Lion Totem (CC, UA) 1 2 0 0 4+ FE, pounce Constructs +25th Barbarian 2 (UA) 1 1 0 0 4+ BF Run Combat Style Rapid Shot 06th Anointed Knight 1 2 0 2 2+: Craft (alch) 5, Knowledge (arc) 3, Spellcraft 3 BF Alertness, Imp Favored Enemy Imp FE7th Stalker of Kharash 1 0 2 0 6+: Hide 8 ranks , Move Silently 8 ranks Scent of evil 08th Stalker of Kharash 2 1 0 1 0 6+ Favored enemy-evil Evil +19th Shadow Scout 1 2 0 0 4+: Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Spot 5 Wise to your Ways Favored enemy, FE +1, fast movement FE X, All FE +110th Stalker of Kharash 3 1 1 0 1 6+ 011th Stalker of Kharash 4 1 0 1 0 Hide in plain sight 012th Stalker of Kharash 5 1 0 0 0 Favored Power Attack Track evil Favored PA 13th Stalker of Kharash 6 1 1 1 1 Smite evil +4/+6 1/day 014th Shadow Scout 2 1 1 0 0 4+ Evasion 15th Shadow Scout 3 1 1 1 1 Leap Attack Detect Enemy Leap attack16th Foe Hunter 0 2 2 0 4+ Hated Arcane, rancor +1d6 +1d6 Arcane17th Foe Hunter 2 1 1 1 0 Damage reduction 3/Arcane 018th Shadow Scout 4 1 1 0 0 Favored Dodge Favored enemy +2 All FE +219th Foe Hunter 3 1 0 0 1 Rancor 2d6 +2d6 Arcane 20th Foe Hunter 4 1 1 1 0 Hated enemy DR 5/—, SR 15


Would Hated Enemy work better on FE Evil? Yeah?

I'm looking at a build that does more FE Evil, but has less casting (looks like only wands n scrolls).

[pabelfly]

Build Critiques:
1) What's the point of the Paladin dip for FE: Outsider (Evil) when you get FE: Evil? What's the point of getting FE: Undead when you get FE: Evil? And how are you getting two FE options in one level?
2) Barbarian 2 gets you an Archery combat-style feat.
3) How do you get FE: Imp at level 6? Why is this relevant when you get FE: Evil in two more levels?
4) Why go to Stalker of Kharash 6 for Smite? Smite is pretty niche and getting a +6 to damage once a day isn't that exciting at level 13. Smite is (IMO) something you should base a build around and you need to add a bunch of multipliers to it to make Smite worthwhile as something to invest in.
5) I can't find the Favored Dodge feat, I'm not sure what it does, let alone if a feat to situationally boost your AC is worth a feat slot.
6) Damage Reduction only applies to physical damage, and not energy damage. What's the point of getting DR 15 against an enemy that doesn't typically do physical damage?

General Notes
1) Ranger 4 can get Solitary Hunter, which applies your FE bonus to attack rolls. Since you're doing a Power Attack build without Shock Trooper, you're going to need a way to boost your attack rolls to boost your damage output. I'd rework your build to add this.
2) The problem with going in with various favored enemy-based feats is that you're significantly weaker when you aren't facing your favored enemies.
3) Arcanists, Evil, Constructs and one other is a pretty short FE list for a build supposedly centred around attacking FE options. I'd work on adding more Favored Enemies that aren't arcanists or evil

I'd alternatively suggest this build might have a few ideas for you: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?634263-3-5-Mundane-VoP-Build&p=25134495&viewfull=1#post25134495. I'd add a level of Barbarian to this to get Pounce online if you want to go melee, and take two flaws. You could reallocate some feats so you don't have to take Vow of Poverty, if you don't like VOP, or you can rework the feat list to get the Extra Favored Enemy feat twice more, but otherwise I think it's pretty solid.

[bean illus]

Build Critiques:
1) What's the point of the Paladin dip for FE: Outsider (Evil) when you get FE: Evil? What's the point of getting FE: Undead when you get FE: Evil? And how are you getting two FE options in one level?

Not much point, except a liberal reading of the classes FE stacking. Kharash and Shadow Scout both explicitly stack with anything. No exceptions (as i read it). Any and every. Therefore Shadow Scout is +2 to both, and +3 Evil × 2 = +6 with the belt.

But it kinda got there in from a collection of table rows i had been playing around with. There are 2 variants included (SRD/UA and #349). One grants Track, which allows me to trade Track for Trapfinding with a Trap Expert (Ds), and Detect Evil isn't bad here either.



2) Barbarian 2 gets you an Archery combat-style feat.

Good lookin out. I knew that, but it wasn't part of my interests, so i let it slip. Added



3) How do you get FE: Imp at level 6? Why is this relevant when you get FE: Evil in two more levels?

If one has BAB +5 and FE they can take Imp FE. I* like it on Solitary Hunting asap.



4) Why go to Stalker of Kharash 6 for Smite? Smite is pretty niche and getting a +6 to damage once a day isn't that exciting at level 13. Smite is (IMO) something you should base a build around and you need to add a bunch of multipliers to it to make Smite worthwhile as something to invest in.

Kharash 6 is for Ranger 8 casting, and 2nd level spells. The other reason is it beats Ranger 3, Sh St 5, Foe Hunter 5, etc.



5) I can't find the Favored Dodge feat, I'm not sure what it does, let alone if a feat to situationally boost your AC is worth a feat slot.


I'm also not sure if it's worth it. Apparently i don't have the prereq. Here's what it says.


Prerequisite: Dodge, favored enemy.
Benefit: Select a favored enemy. When fighting a creature of that type you may add your favored enemy bonus to your Armor Class as a dodge bonus. This bonus applies to your Armor Class against creatures of the appropriate type (only). If you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class for any reason, you also lose this dodge bonus.

Any idea what to replace it with?



6) Damage Reduction only applies to physical damage, and not energy damage. What's the point of getting DR 15 against an enemy that doesn't typically do physical damage?

I questioned Hated Enemy Arcane. I had had it set at Evil, and changed last minute at a whim.

My thinking was to include non evil casters in the SR 15/ FE Arcanists (choice of Hated Enemy directs both abilities).



General Notes
1) Ranger 4 can get Solitary Hunter, which applies your FE bonus to attack rolls. Since you're doing a Power Attack build without Shock Trooper, you're going to need a way to boost your attack rolls to boost your damage output. I'd rework your build to add this.

Solitary Hunting is included in the math, but i clearly forgot to add it to the table. Thx (added).



2) The problem with going in with various favored enemy-based feats is that you're significantly weaker when you aren't facing your favored enemies.
A
True. That's why ranger is underwhelming. The Spirit Pouch helps, but not much.



3) Arcanists, Evil, Constructs and one other is a pretty short FE list for a build supposedly centred around attacking FE options. I'd work on adding more Favored Enemies that aren't arcanists or evil

Well, as written, also has FE undead. That doesn't much change your point, though 5 is the same as ranger 20.
I have built for larger number of FE. This build was specifically looking at FE Evil, Track Evil, and Detect Enemy.



I'd alternatively suggest this build might have a few ideas for you: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?634263-3-5-Mundane-VoP-Build&p=25134495&viewfull=1#post25134495. I'd add a level of Barbarian to this to get Pounce online if you want to go melee, and take two flaws. You could reallocate some feats so you don't have to take Vow of Poverty, if you don't like VOP, or you can rework the feat list to get the Extra Favored Enemy feat twice more, but otherwise I think it's pretty solid.

I have Pounce.
I'm not entirely unwilling to use Flaws, but usually try to see if a build will work without them, especially here in the playground. I certainly could dump Favored Dodge and consider a FE.


With that said PLEASE keep critiquing every detail (which i fix in my private notes), and THANKS for the compliment, read through, and critique.

I'm thinking about a VoP build for Harper Paragon. That's what I'm currently looking at. I want to be clear that these tables don't include Iron Chef level of rigor. It's just that I've recently decided that it's easier (long term) to keep my notes in table row form.

[ShurikVch]

2) The problem with going in with various favored enemy-based feats is that you're significantly weaker when you aren't facing your favored enemies.

A
True. That's why ranger is underwhelming. The Spirit Pouch helps, but not much.
Suggestion: 2-level dip in Chameleon, and pick Extra Favored Enemy (whatever is the most frequent of current enemies) as your "floating" Bonus Feat?

[bean illus]

Suggestion: 2-level dip in Chameleon, and pick Extra Favored Enemy (whatever is the most frequent of current enemies) as your "floating" Bonus Feat?

Idk. Obviously Chameleon 2 gets all Ranger 3 spells (and more), but other than that ... 2 levels and and a feat to accomplish what a super cheap item does isn't really fixing this build.

OTOH, it would fix Favored Dodge, which applies to only one FE by choosing it daily. ... idk

***
There's an FE aberrations build that i haven't really explored. I did notice a few PRCs that stack aberrations.

[pabelfly]

Glad you got some use out of my critique.

Last few notes:

I prefer Stalker of Kharash over Harper Paragon since Stalker is a full-BAB class.

For 6th level, you pick Improved Favored Enemy, not Extra Favored Enemy. Two different feats. So you shouldn't have Imp FE.

You don't get Solitary Hunter unless you specifically go Ranger 4. You dipped out of Ranger at level 2.

I'd be wary of picking up random Favored Enemy options. The Favored Enemies I think you should shoot for are non-Evil enemies to expand the amount of use you get out of FE. Like, your previous build gets a huge bonus against FE: Imps, since they are Evil, Outsiders and Imps, but how often are you going to fight Imps?


There's an FE aberrations build that i haven't really explored. I did notice a few PRCs that stack aberrations.
Unless you're going to play something like Mimics: The Game, I don't think this would be too useful a build.

I'll try building a melee Favored Enemy build later. But before I get too much into building, I'll check the following assumptions with you:
- You specifically want to melee.
- We want more attacks each turn since that gives us more times we get our Favored Enemy bonus to damage. I'd probably go with Giant Anthro Octopus since that comes with six attacks each turn at level 1 for the cost of two racial hit dice.
- We don't want Vow of Poverty to stack the Nemesis feat or deal without having items.
- You don't want Scout and you don't want Swift Hunter. I think Swift Hunter would be really useful though.

Are those assumptions okay before I start working on a build?

[ShurikVch]

Idk. Obviously Chameleon 2 gets all Ranger 3 spells (and more), but other than that ... 2 levels and and a feat to accomplish what a super cheap item does isn't really fixing this build.

OTOH, it would fix Favored Dodge, which applies to only one FE by choosing it daily. ... idk
Another variant: custom amulet of Extra Favored Enemy (by the rules of "Magic Items that Grant Feats" from the Arms and Equipment Guide)?

[pabelfly]

Another variant: custom amulet of Extra Favored Enemy (by the rules of "Magic Items that Grant Feats" from the Arms and Equipment Guide)?

This isn't a bad idea. How much does this cost?

[ShurikVch]

This isn't a bad idea. How much does this cost?
Quoting the sidebar:

Pricing feats for magic items is a very fuzzy area. If a feat is purely mechanical, such as Great Fortitude, default to the rules in the Dungeon Master's Guide with an adjustment for the fact that the bonus has no type. For instance, the belt of endurance grants Great Fortitude, which adds a +2 bonus on all Fortitude saves. A +2 resistance bonus on all saves would cost 4,000 gp. It shouldn't be more or as economical to buy bonuses to all saves separately, so a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves alone should cost 2,000 gp. If the bonus has no type assigned to it, you could double or even triple that.
...
A general guideline for other kinds of feats is that they cost 10,000 gp, plus another 5,000 gp to 10,000 gp per prerequisite.

[bean illus]

I prefer Stalker of Kharash over Harper Paragon since Stalker is a full-BAB class.

Yeah, that's my first thought.
Harper Paragon and Swanmay both gain FE in 2 levels, and both use Sacred Vow + VoW of X. Swanmay has a interesting FE, in that the DM picks it, which is actually kinda cool, because you can assume it gets play.

I'm not saying it's good, I'm saying that i noticed it, and am going to look it over.



For 6th level, you pick Improved Favored Enemy, not Extra Favored Enemy. Two different feats. So you shouldn't have Imp FE.

I do pick Improved Favored Enemy at 6th. I don't understand what you're meaning. Do you not like IFE? Are you suggesting to ditch it? You prefer ExFE over IFE?



You don't get Solitary Hunter unless you specifically go Ranger 4. You dipped out of Ranger at level 2.

As i read it you get Solitary Hunting at 1st, though i understand that's like a freebie upgrade that's just how it's written.
As i see it, it's no big deal. You either go Ranger 4 and reap full reward and benefit, or you dip Ranger and wade through a slog of multiclass that isn't really likely to help much, uses up build resources, and in the end you're still just a Ranger and short on feats.



I'd be wary of picking up random Favored Enemy options. The Favored Enemies I think you should shoot for are non-Evil enemies to expand the amount of use you get out of FE. Like, your previous build gets a huge bonus against FE: Imps, since they are Evil, Outsiders and Imps, but how often are you going to fight Imps?

Lol, i don't have FE imps. I see why ut might look that way; the table has notes in the FE column that were for me (tracking FE and FE feats), and that's obviously misleading to the reader.

OTOH, your advice about non-evil enemies is good advice. Do you have recommendations?



I'll try building a melee Favored Enemy build later. But before I get too much into building, I'll check the following assumptions with you:
- You specifically want to melee.
- We want more attacks each turn since that gives us more times we get our Favored Enemy bonus to damage. I'd probably go with Giant Anthro Octopus since that comes with six attacks each turn at level 1 for the cost of two racial hit dice.
- We don't want Vow of Poverty to stack the Nemesis feat or deal without having items.
- You don't want Scout and you don't want Swift Hunter. I think Swift Hunter would be really useful though.

Though I'm enjoying your input, i will probably still build a few Rangers either way. I don't see a need for you to do a 20 level build, unless you just want to.

Well Swift Hunter is great, and i have and will use it again. I'm just looking at things that I'd passed, or missed.

Melee - I've built a lot of archers, and they're very feat intensive, so i was just looking at Favored Power Attack. My next build will probably also use it.

Anthro Octopus - As much fun as that sounds, it's really not my style.

****
I am going to look at a Harper Paragon Swanmay, and see if i want to build outta that. I won't get to it today though.

[Doctor Despair]

It was pointed out recently in the discord that the FRCS (168) allows rangers to select a number of variants for FE, such as some quirky ones like "foreign merchants and clerics," "northern cities," and, notably here, "evil creatures." You don't actually need Stalker or Harper if you don't want it.

[pabelfly]

Yeah, that's my first thought.
Harper Paragon and Swanmay both gain FE in 2 levels, and both use Sacred Vow + VoW of X. Swanmay has a interesting FE, in that the DM picks it, which is actually kinda cool, because you can assume it gets play.

I'm not saying it's good, I'm saying that i noticed it, and am going to look it over.



I do pick Improved Favored Enemy at 6th. I don't understand what you're meaning. Do you not like IFE? Are you suggesting to ditch it? You prefer ExFE over IFE?



As i read it you get Solitary Hunting at 1st, though i understand that's like a freebie upgrade that's just how it's written.
As i see it, it's no big deal. You either go Ranger 4 and reap full reward and benefit, or you dip Ranger and wade through a slog of multiclass that isn't really likely to help much, uses up build resources, and in the end you're still just a Ranger and short on feats.



Lol, i don't have FE imps. I see why ut might look that way; the table has notes in the FE column that were for me (tracking FE and FE feats), and that's obviously misleading to the reader.

OTOH, your advice about non-evil enemies is good advice. Do you have recommendations?



Though I'm enjoying your input, i will probably still build a few Rangers either way. I don't see a need for you to do a 20 level build, unless you just want to.

Well Swift Hunter is great, and i have and will use it again. I'm just looking at things that I'd passed, or missed.

Melee - I've built a lot of archers, and they're very feat intensive, so i was just looking at Favored Power Attack. My next build will probably also use it.

Anthro Octopus - As much fun as that sounds, it's really not my style.

****
I am going to look at a Harper Paragon Swanmay, and see if i want to build outta that. I won't get to it today though.

Last few observations:
- If you're trading out the animal companion for Solitary Hunter, I'd that opine that you need to get to the level where you'd get the animal companion. I can see why you think you can get the benefit at first level though.
- I can't work out how you get FE: Imp at level 6. If it was from a feat, it would be the Extra Favored Enemy feat, but you've taken Improved Favored Enemy instead.
- Not sure I'd take Improved FE for a Power Attack-oriented build. +3 to damage isn't much for a PA build. +3 to damage makes more sense when you get more iterative attacks, such as TWF/MWF and volley archery builds. I'd instead work on getting feats that boost Power Attack as soon as possible
- FE's I'd suggest to add: Evil: dragon, construct, animals, plants, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, and aberrations. Enemies I'd either consider difficult for their CR, or typically neutral and not covered by FE: Evil.

[Doctor Despair]

- FE's I'd suggest to add: Evil: dragon, construct, animals, plants, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, and aberrations. Enemies I'd either consider difficult for their CR, or typically neutral and not covered by FE: Evil.

Dragons are notoriously either normally good or normally evil aligned though, aren't they? Depending on if they are metallic or chromatic respectively?

Oh, I somehow missed "difficult for their CR." Gotcha.

[pabelfly]

It was pointed out recently in the discord that the FRCS (168) allows rangers to select a number of variants for FE, such as some quirky ones like "foreign merchants and clerics," "northern cities," and, notably here, "evil creatures." You don't actually need Stalker or Harper if you don't want it.

That's a nice find. And the only cost for that is you have to be from the Great Worm Tribe and be a Forgotten Realms character., so pretty easy prereqs.

Just realised that you probably have to miss out on Favored Enemy Arcane, since that's only available at first level and presumably these Favored Enemies need to be taken at first level too.

[bean illus]

That's a nice find. And the only cost for that is you have to be from the Great Worm Tribe and be a Forgotten Realms character., so pretty easy prereqs.

Just realised that you probably have to miss out on Favored Enemy Arcane, since that's only available at first level and presumably these Favored Enemies need to be taken at first level too.

Ah, but an Uthgardt Great Worm Tribe Barbarian can take the SRD Barbarian 1 variant and gain FE as Uthgardt Great Worm Tribe Ranger (FE Evil), and then take Ranger 1 for FE Arcanists.

In fact, though the Gray Wolf Tribe mentions initiating to another tribe's totem will cause a loss of lycanthropy, it doesn't say they lose their favored enemy. Therefore its possible to take Black Raven Tribe for FE Clerics at Ranger 5, or presumably with Swift Hunter (assuming you were still in the region to receive training).

Hell, if you ditch enough fluff, you can still trade fast movement for pounce.


Human
Uthgardt Barbarian

Barbarian 1 Great Worm Tribe: FE Evil +2
Ranger 1: Arcanists
Scout
Scout 2
Scout 3
Ranger 2 Black Raven Tribe: Swift Hunter, FE Clerics

Maybe pick up Shadow Scout 4?

[ShurikVch]

It was pointed out recently in the discord that the FRCS (168) allows rangers to select a number of variants for FE, such as some quirky ones like "foreign merchants and clerics," "northern cities," and, notably here, "evil creatures." You don't actually need Stalker or Harper if you don't want it.
Note: if you would use the tribe for FE, then dip in Tribal Protector may be reasonable: Tribal Enemy would give another +3 for all the FE numbers (at the very 1st level!)
Prerequisites notes: Great Cleave feat line; also, you would need to be a Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid - but not a Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Half-Elf, or Human

[Doctor Despair]

Note: if you would use the tribe for FE, then dip in Tribal Protector may be reasonable: Tribal Enemy would give another +3 for all the FE numbers (at the very 1st level!)
Prerequisites notes: Great Cleave feat line; also, you would need to be a Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid - but not a Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Half-Elf, or Human

Unfortunately, it's not +3 to your FE bonus, so things like Favored Dodge or Wise to your Ways and such wouldn't be buffed. In light of that, it's kind of underwhelming. :smallfrown:

[ShurikVch]

Unfortunately, it's not +3 to your FE bonus, so things like Favored Dodge or Wise to your Ways and such wouldn't be buffed. In light of that, it's kind of underwhelming. :smallfrown:
Are you sure?

A tribal defender who is also a ranger chooses a tribal enemy that is a subset of his favored enemy. The bonuses stack.

[Doctor Despair]

Are you sure?

Yes, they stack, but that doesn't mean it adds to your FE bonus. The +X to damage from power attack also stacks with FE, but that doesn't mean it increases your FE bonus.

[pabelfly]

The +3 from Tribal Protector is for one very specific enemy type, like the neighbouring human nation, or the members of a specific religion. So that would stack with the +3 from Improved Favored Enemy, but it's a very narrow bonus and you need three feats (Power Attack, Cleave and Great Cleave) to get it. It doesn't seem that great, especially on a power attack build.

[ShurikVch]

No spells was mentioned...
Let's fix it!

1
Detect Favored Enemy (Spell Compendium) - almost like Detect Evil, except the area is "Quarter circle" rather than "Cone"

2
Bottomless Hate (Ghostwalk) - +1 morale on attack and damage against your Favored Enemies for every 3 CL; countered by Calm Emotions and such
Exacting Shot (Spell Compendium) - automatically confirms ranged critical hits against your Favored Enemies, and ignores any concealment-related miss chances for Favored Enemies; doesn't works in case if magical weapon or projectiles are already have crit-related special ability

3
Mark of the Hunter (Spell Compendium) - your Favored Enemy bonus against the target creature (which is one of your FE) increased by 4; moreover, target creature gets against your attacks no AC from any non-total cover, and no miss chance from any non-total concealment

4
Bane Bow (Complete Divine) - your ranged weapon gets +5 enhancement and Bane (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#bane) against one type of your Favored Enemies; spell suppresses any possible magical properties (permanent or temporary) of weapon it's cast on and its ammunition (if any), but not special materials; doesn't works on artifacts
Foebane (Complete Adventurer) - your weapon acts as +5 magical weapon and does extra 2d6 damage against one type of your Favored Enemies; also, you get +4 on saves vs effects created by this type of Favored Enemies; spell suppresses any possible magical properties (permanent or temporary) of weapon it's cast on (if any); doesn't works on artifacts


Also...
"You should always be yourself.... unless you can be a Dragon, then always be a dragon."
So,

Stalking Wyrm
...
Sovereign: Balinor.
Benefit: Hide, Move Silently, and Survival are class skills. A stalking wyrm receives Track as a bonus feat, and can cast spells from the Air, Animal, and Earth domains as arcane spells. Finally, a stalking wyrm gains favored enemies as if he was a ranger of a level equal to his sorcerer caster level.
How about it?
Maybe CL would be easier to boost than effective Ranger level?

[pabelfly]

Bottomless Hate (Ghostwalk) - +1 morale on attack and damage against your Favored Enemies for every 3 CL; countered by Calm Emotions and such

You'll note there's no cap on caster level for this.

EDIT: Is there a spell like Pathfinder's Instant Favored Enemy in 3.5?

[bean illus]

Note: if you would use the tribe for FE, then dip in Tribal Protector may be reasonable: Tribal Enemy would give another +3 for all the FE numbers (at the very 1st level!)
Prerequisites notes: Great Cleave feat line; also, you would need to be a Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid - but not a Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Half-Elf, or Human

A subset that stacks. So evil undead, or evil clerics. Idk. The 3 feat tax (2 if the ranger acf is waived) is pricy for a situational +3.


No spells was mentioned...
Let's fix it!

1
Detect Favored Enemy (Spell Compendium) - almost like Detect Evil, except the area is "Quarter circle" rather than "Cone"

2
Bottomless Hate (Ghostwalk) - +1 morale on attack and damage against your Favored Enemies for every 3 CL; countered by Calm Emotions and such
Exacting Shot (Spell Compendium) - automatically confirms ranged critical hits against your Favored Enemies, and ignores any concealment-related miss chances for Favored Enemies; doesn't works in case if magical weapon or projectiles are already have crit-related special ability

3
Mark of the Hunter (Spell Compendium) - your Favored Enemy bonus against the target creature (which is one of your FE) increased by 4; moreover, target creature gets against your attacks no AC from any non-total cover, and no miss chance from any non-total concealment

4
Bane Bow (Complete Divine) - your ranged weapon gets +5 enhancement and Bane (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#bane) against one type of your Favored Enemies; spell suppresses any possible magical properties (permanent or temporary) of weapon it's cast on and its ammunition (if any), but not special materials; doesn't works on artifacts
Foebane (Complete Adventurer) - your weapon acts as +5 magical weapon and does extra 2d6 damage against one type of your Favored Enemies; also, you get +4 on saves vs effects created by this type of Favored Enemies; spell suppresses any possible magical properties (permanent or temporary) of weapon it's cast on (if any); doesn't works on artifacts.

2 levels of chameleon ... lol

Really, those are great additions. Detect FE seems particularly accessible.

Ranger casting levels are hard to come by in many dip heavy builds. Wands help, but 4th level spells is ranger 14. That's simple on some builds, but late at best.

Chameleon is so strong (and ranger so weak) that ranger 9/cham 5 is probably better than ranger 14.


Also...
"You should always be yourself.... unless you can be a Dragon, then always be a dragon."
So,

How about it?
Maybe CL would be easier to boost than effective Ranger level?

Dragon is pretty 'epic'. That's pretty far out.
I would struggle to pull it off, but i bet some of y'all could make a fun showcase outta that.


You'll note there's no cap on caster level for this.

EDIT: Is there a spell like Pathfinder's Instant Favored Enemy in 3.5?

Bottomless Hate does need caster level, but that does make a theoretical +6 or greater vs ALL FE is possible. Again with the chameleon, who can easily have several of those spells running at the same time, and get the +6 in 9 levels.

Doesn't Spirit Pouch make instant FE? That's the key to FE pretty much everyone. It's a 2,100 gp item, and any 12th+ level character should have access to every one he can afford.

***
Stacks with any now includes

Spirit Pouch +2 (+1-2)
Shadow Scout 4: +2 (+1-4)
Azure Enmity +1-5
Bottomless Hate +1-6

Improved FE +3
FE evil +1-2 (and crazy if any of the rest double stacks).

For instance Shadow Scout could be argued to add to both FE evil and FE X. Bottomless Hate, and even Improved Favored Enemy arguably stack with both.

Azurin
Barb 1/ Swift Hunter 4/ Totemist 2/ Shadow Scout 4/ Cham 9
Able Learner, Azure Enmity, Improved FE
Pick up FE evil, arcanists, and clerics.

At 14th level ...
Any random FE you can get a pouch for gets:
Pouch +1, Enmity +3, IFE +3, ShSc +2, Hate +3 = 12

That's +3 more if they're already a FE for the character, and +4 +2 +cheese more if they're also evil.

***
Might need Flaws but Bonus Essentia and Expanded Capacity can theoretically be squeezed in. That and Bottomless Hate add a combined +5 more.

Of course, the Spirit Pouch fails in antimagic, dispel, etc, but by then you're probably facing an arcane caster, or cleric, so you're golden.

Depending on how things are allowed to stack, i think we're finally approaching "Hey, slow down" level. The Girdle is gonna reach +18 evil (more with cheese), and stack with +12 random pouch.

We haven't even added Ancestral Relic, Mark of the Hunter, Hunting enhancement, etc.

[pabelfly]

I thought I'd try putting this together in a build. Level 12, Human (because that's the race of the Uthgardt Barbarians and the Black Raven tribe).

Barbarian 1. Class: Pounce. Favored Enemy: Griffin Tribe, Foreign Merchants and Clerics (+2). Feats: Able Learner, Improved Unarmed Strike
Ranger 1. (B) Track. Favored Enemy: Arcane (+2).
Ranger 2. Feat: Alertness. Bonus Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting
Ranger 3. Bonus Feat: Endurance
Ranger 4.
Ranger 5 Feat: Favored of the Companions. Favored Enemy: Construct (+2) Arcane (+4)
Stalker of Kharash 1.
Stalker of Kharash 2. Favored Enemy: Evil (+1)
Chameleon 1. Feat: Power Attack
Chameleon 2. Bonus Feat: Extra Favored Enemy
Ranger 6. Bonus Feat: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Ranger 7. Bonus Feat: Favored Power Attack

Favored Enemies: Griffin Tribe (+2), Foreign Merchants (+2), Clerics (+2), Arcane (+5), Constructs (+2), Evil (+1), Any (+1) (Floating, changes 1/day)

The build concept is to change the Chameleon's bonus feat to Extra Favored Enemy for any particularly difficult enemy, if somehow this enemy isn't a Foreign Merchant (or a Cleric, Arcane caster, Construct or Evil). After that, cast "Bottomless Hate" for a +3 to attack and damage (which you can boost easily to +4 or further with items that boost caster level). Power Attack converts any bonuses to attack rolls to damage at 2:1 ratio for Favored enemies, and 1:1 for regular enemies. Besides the regular unarmed attack-boosting items, items that boost caster level and second-level Pearls of Power would be recommended items to cast Bottomless Hate more regularly during the day and get more benefit from the spell.

Presuming 21 STR at level 12, and Bottomless Hate cast...

Attack: 11 BAB + 5 STR + 2 Chameleon Combat Focus + 3 Bottomless Hate -2 Two-Weapon Fighting
Attack: 19/19/14/14/9
Power Attack 5: 14/14/9/9/4

Damage (Power Attack 5): 1d3 + 5 (2 offhand) +2 Favored Enemy +3 Bottomless Hate + 10 Power Attack
Damage: 1d3 + 20 (17 offhand)

Not bad damage for a "naked" build at this level, IMO.

Solitary Hunter would be a recommended ACF, but it's a Dragon Magazine option, so hasn't been included in this optimization exercise. However, this would get a bonus to attack rolls and might be worth giving up an animal companion for.

[bean illus]

I thought I'd try putting this together in a build. Level 12, Human (because that's the race of the Uthgardt Barbarians and the Black Raven tribe).

Barbarian 1. Class: Pounce. Favored Enemy: Griffin Tribe, Foreign Merchants and Clerics (+2). Feats: Able Learner, Improved Unarmed Strike
Ranger 1. (B) Track. Favored Enemy: Arcane (+2).
Ranger 2. Feat: Alertness. Bonus Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting
Ranger 3. Bonus Feat: Endurance
Ranger 4.
Ranger 5 Feat: Favored of the Companions. Favored Enemy: Construct (+2) Arcane (+4)
Stalker of Kharash 1.
Stalker of Kharash 2. Favored Enemy: Evil (+1)
Chameleon 1. Feat: Power Attack
Chameleon 2. Bonus Feat: Extra Favored Enemy
Ranger 6. Bonus Feat: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Ranger 7. Bonus Feat: Favored Power Attack

Favored Enemies: Griffin Tribe (+2), Foreign Merchants (+2), Clerics (+2), Arcane (+5), Constructs (+2), Evil (+1), Any (+1) (Floating, changes 1/day)

The build concept is to change the Chameleon's bonus feat to Extra Favored Enemy for any particularly difficult enemy, if somehow this enemy isn't a Foreign Merchant (or a Cleric, Arcane caster, Construct or Evil). After that, cast "Bottomless Hate" for a +3 to attack and damage (which you can boost easily to +4 or further with items that boost caster level). Power Attack converts any bonuses to attack rolls to damage at 2:1 ratio for Favored enemies, and 1:1 for regular enemies. Besides the regular unarmed attack-boosting items, items that boost caster level and second-level Pearls of Power would be recommended items to cast Bottomless Hate more regularly during the day and get more benefit from the spell.

Presuming 21 STR at level 12, and Bottomless Hate cast...

Attack: 11 BAB + 5 STR + 2 Chameleon Combat Focus + 3 Bottomless Hate -2 Two-Weapon Fighting
Attack: 19/19/14/14/9
Power Attack 5: 14/14/9/9/4

Damage (Power Attack 5): 1d3 + 5 (2 offhand) +2 Favored Enemy +3 Bottomless Hate + 10 Power Attack
Damage: 1d3 + 20 (17 offhand)

Not bad damage for a "naked" build at this level, IMO.

Solitary Hunter would be a recommended ACF, but it's a Dragon Magazine option, so hasn't been included in this optimization exercise. However, this would get a bonus to attack rolls and might be worth giving up an animal companion for.

That reminds me. Another reason that i allow Solitary Hunting at first (as RAW) is because you give away the companion forever. You can't pick it up somewhere else.

As for the rest. Yours is tidier than my last one. But ...

Does Azurin not technically qualify as human?

You don't actually need Stalker of Kharash, or the 2 feat tax. Though needing DM acceptance of the storyline, switching Uthgardt tribes is allowed, and doesn't penalize the character with loss of FE.

Without Kharash you can easily add Swift Hunter.

Your build only get's 2nd level ranger spells, which is redundant with chameleon. That opens up the option of Champions of the Wild from CC, granting a bonus feat for losing casting.

[pabelfly]

That reminds me. Another reason that i allow Solitary Hunting at first (as RAW) is because you give away the companion forever. You can't pick it up somewhere else.

As for the rest. Yours is tidier than my last one. But ...

Does Azurin not technically qualify as human?

You don't actually need Stalker of Kharash, or the 2 feat tax. Though needing DM acceptance of the storyline, switching Uthgardt tribes is allowed, and doesn't penalize the character with loss of FE.

Without Kharash you can easily add Swift Hunter.

Your build only get's 2nd level ranger spells, which is redundant with chameleon. That opens up the option of Champions of the Wild from CC, granting a bonus feat for losing casting.

Okay there's some good comments here, let's go through them:

Solitary Hunter - good ACF and I always use it since animal companions don't interest me but attack roll bonuses certainly do, but I prefer not to use Dragon Magazine in optimization exercises since it isn't always allowed as a source material.

Azurin - Uthgardt Barbarians need to specifically be Human, from what I can tell, rather than just being human-type. We also don't have enough feats to make use of Azurin's extra essentia but we'd certainly use the extra skill point from Human.

Switching tribes - although it might be book-legal I view this about on the level of switching alignments mid-build. Something I'd be fine with if it organically happened at the table during play but not something I'd want to see pre-planned in a build. And the sort of thing that gets frowned upon when examining someone else's optimization efforts. Your mileage may vary.

Swift-Hunter - there's two ways to build a Ranger, IMO. First (and easiest) way is through Swift Hunter and picking up Favored Enemies that are difficult to hit (Arcane) or help ensure you trigger skirmish damage when you otherwise couldn't (Constructs, Undead, etc). Chameleon has the nice option of getting a floating Extra Favored Enemy option and second-level spells but you're likely better off with a free feat and two free class levels to keep progressing Skirmish, spellcasting, etc.

The second way (what I've tried to do) is to try to get as wide a spread of Favored Enemies as possible and get some good benefits against your Favored Enemy, with feats like "Favored Power Attack". Harder to do since I feel like you could do the same build more easily and more consistently with the Fighter class, but I digress. In this case, Uthgardt Barbarians are useful, and I also feel FE: Evil is a pretty good part of a full Favored Enemy build since it covers so many enemies.

Lastly, Chameleon spellcasting. You have a point and I think this might be better used to get an extra use of Bottomless Hate if you are limited in the amount of Pearls of Power you can have, even if we have to give up the +2 to accuracy all day for it. I wouldn't ditch Ranger spellcasting without a really good plan though, and two weak bonus feats (maybe Improved Favored Enemy and Two-Weapon Defense?) seems like a bad trade IMO.

Thanks for the comments.

[bean illus]

Solitary Hunter - I use it anytime the DM (chair/judge) isn't threatening me.

Switching Uthgardt Barbarians tribe - Not a all like an alignment shift. Living in your cousin's tribe for a year to learn ranger tricks is not an alignment shift, and it's not implied so.
Of course your DM would need to agree to be on that side of the map, but that's true of any regional reference in the game.

Azurin - meh. A simple adoption back-story. Human is human. Lol.
You certainly do have feats for azure enmity, after you drop Kharash.

Fighter - isn't a ranger. Fighter's certainly hit a bit better, but if we pretend that there are no railroad tracks to ride, then the ranger stuff is fun.

Chameleon spellcasting - ... a floating feat and second-level spells ... ... BUT, let's not forget that those are every2nd level spell in the game (which means 3rd level spells). And twice as many. And Bottomless Hate is a 2nd level spell, which means ranger only gets 1 (+1) before 14th.

Champion of the Wild - Those are mostly weak feats. Over 8 levels i have trouble choosing one. It's an poor trade if you're not picking up casting elsewhere.
Nevertheless, Improved Precise Shot is great at higher levels, while Improved Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot are all worth having on low level builds, and qualify for many PRCs.
Improved Favored Enemy isn't really a weak feat. It's a better bonus than Bottomless Hate on a straight ranger until 12th level. Only chameleon/etc can get the +6 outta it.

[ShurikVch]

Bottomless Hate on a straight ranger until 12th level. Only chameleon/etc can get the +6 outta it.
Note: CL optimization:
Bead of Karma (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#strandofPrayerBeads) +4; 20,000 gp
Create Magic Tattoo (CL 13; Spell Compendium) +1 for 24 hours; spell
Domain Drought: Beguilment (Magic Item Compendium and Dragon #312) +1 for 24 hours; 3,300 gp
Orange Ion Prism (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#iounStones) +1; 40,000 gp
Practiced Spellcaster: Ranger ("Magic Items that Grant Feats" Arms and Equipment Guide) +4; 10,000 gp - or just take a feat
Robe of Arcane Might (Magic Item Compendium) +1; 21,000 gp
Suffer the Flesh (Magic of Eberron) +5 for 1 round; 10 Con damage; spell
War Cross of St. Cuthbert (Complete Champion) +1; 350 gp
Total: +18 CL (and, thus, +6 on attack and damage) - before any CL from class levels - for 54,650 gp, and 10 Con damage