Druid/Wizard Synergy

[Fero]

Hi,

I have had a lot of fun in the past playing wizard/ something else hybrids. I am considering a Mystic Theurge/Arcane Hierophant combining wizard and druid for our next game. Does anyone know how well the two classes spells synergize and/or of any interesting combos between the two?

Thank you

[Doctor Despair]

Trade your familiar for something else. Arcane Hierophant is going to give the benefits it would have gained to your animal companion anyway, so nothing is really lost.

[Biggus]

Any idea what you want to do? Advice if you want to focus on being a wild shaped melee warrior would be very different than if you're primarily using spells to attack for example.

There's an Arcane Hierophant handbook here:

https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-arcane-hierophant-examined-arcane-hierophant-handbook-pyromantic.471579/

And a couple of Mystic Theurge handbooks:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?224999-The-Urge-to-Theurge-A-Theurge-Handbook-WIP
https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=8719.0

[Fero]

Any idea what you want to do? Advice if you want to focus on being a wild shaped melee warrior would be very different than if you're primarily using spells to attack for example.

There's an Arcane Hierophant handbook here:

https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-arcane-hierophant-examined-arcane-hierophant-handbook-pyromantic.471579/

And a couple of Mystic Theurge handbooks:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?224999-The-Urge-to-Theurge-A-Theurge-Handbook-WIP
https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=8719.0

Thank you for the Handbook links (somehow I missed these). I am interested in spellcasting and, to a lesser extent, item creation. I will probably use the companion and wildshape features but they won't be my focus. I am primarily interested in finding ways to combine spells and Meta spell effects to do interesting things. I suspect I will grab Invisible Spell and at least one Energy Affinity at some point. For some reason acidic Call Lightning speaks to me.

[Anthrowhale]

The most significant synergy I'm aware of is via the Theurgic Specialist feat. That however requires 3 levels of specialist wizard lining you up for Druid 3/Specialist 3/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4 which is painfully behind in spell advancement. If you can qualify for AH via Bamboo Spirit Folk, that would allow Druid 1/Specialist 3/Mystic Theurge 1/Arcane Hierophant 10/MT 5. This is controversial, since AH specifies 'class ability' while Bamboo Spirit Folk provide trackless step as a racial ability.

In terms of additions to a wizard, druids access healing effects and have some BFC effects which are plausibly superior to a wizard's. Once summons start lasting long enough to matter, the druid's summon animals have lots of hit points. Combining with a wizard's ability to polymorph can create interesting effects via Sanctum Spell and Imbued Summoning. In terms of BFC, the starters are Entangle which lasts a minute and covers a large area (both much better than grease) and Snowsight+Obscuring Snow (which lasts hour/level).

[Fero]

The most significant synergy I'm aware of is via the Theurgic Specialist feat. That however requires 3 levels of specialist wizard lining you up for Druid 3/Specialist 3/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4 which is painfully behind in spell advancement. If you can qualify for AH via Bamboo Spirit Folk, that would allow Druid 1/Specialist 3/Mystic Theurge 1/Arcane Hierophant 10/MT 5. This is controversial, since AH specifies 'class ability' while Bamboo Spirit Folk provide trackless step as a racial ability.

In terms of additions to a wizard, druids access healing effects and have some BFC effects which are plausibly superior to a wizard's. Once summons start lasting long enough to matter, the druid's summon animals have lots of hit points. Combining with a wizard's ability to polymorph can create interesting effects via Sanctum Spell and Imbued Summoning. In terms of BFC, the starters are Entangle which lasts a minute and covers a large area (both much better than grease) and Snowsight+Obscuring Snow (which lasts hour/level).

This is juicy. Thank you! I am potentially fine being 3 caster levels behind. Do you think the Theurgic Specialist CL bonus would stack with Practiced Spellcaster and other CL boosters to let me have a CL significantly higher than HD? Alternatively, I think I could use Elemental Theurge and Snowcasting for a similar result.

Polymorph+Imbued Summoning+Sanctum Spell is a brilliant combo. Do you think I could add in Greenbound summoning or would the polymorph override the Greenbound? Also, do you know of any way to reduce the bite of the level adjust for Imbued summoning? Thank you!

[ciopo]

I'm playing a druid 4 / sha'ir 1 / planar shepherd 2 (advancing sha'ir) / arcane hierophant 9, and I've been doing so since level 12 or so when i had the opportunity to do a massive retraining ( I was previously druid 6 / nature's warrior 5 )

I will claim with high confidence that your familiar companion is THE highlight of the class.

1) get enspell familiar feat so your share spell feature has 1 mile of range, the spell enhance familiar is bonkers when used on an animal companion chassis

2) every buff spell ever you cast on yourself will also affect your familiar companion, displacement? twinned. mirror image? twinned. This is huge because the combat utility of an animal companion is miles above a familiar

3) there is a ludicrous amount of personal only arcane spell that becomes very very sexy when you share spell it with the much-chonkier-than-familiar animal companions

4) the arcane list has some nifty spell that would normally not affect animal companions, but that you can have them affect animal companions now, thanks again to share spell. An early such example is enlarge person, for example.

5) the high INT of the familiar companion makes for an easy argument about letting it retraining its feat / take "advanced concept" feats that your GM might feel a normal animal companion wouldn't be able to be smart enough to take

6) high INT = familiar companion do not need to be handled with handle animal, nominally speaking it would be 100% an NPC, but it's likely your GM will let oyu control it as if it was another PC under your control

in short, the familiar companion will quite the beatstick

sidenote, and not something I would recommend trying in an actual table, but you can nominally awaken your familiar companion NI times, since it specifically says it can be affected by harmless effects that target animals even if it's a magical beast, and since there's the technicality that it's a familiar companion, not an animal companion, so it bypasses the awaken limitation that an awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion. That's funny to think about


onto non familiar companion shilling : druid has "the" BFCs : call avalanche, blizzard, whiteout. these are unparalleled for open ground BFC. It's kind of funny you'd have to have enlarge metamagic if you want ot make full actual use of their area

[Biggus]

The most significant synergy I'm aware of is via the Theurgic Specialist feat. That however requires 3 levels of specialist wizard lining you up for Druid 3/Specialist 3/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4 which is painfully behind in spell advancement. If you can qualify for AH via Bamboo Spirit Folk, that would allow Druid 1/Specialist 3/Mystic Theurge 1/Arcane Hierophant 10/MT 5.

These don't work because of the requirement for AH to have BAB +4, you'd need to take some (more) MT levels first.

[paladinn]

Just thinking "out loud".. a wizard/druid mashup would make a pretty good basis for a "witch" class, especially since "warlock" has been commandeered for something else.

Use the druid spell progression, wizard's HD, druid wildshape (at a higher level), wizard's weapons and armor and BAB. Allow the use of wizard spells, but maybe limit access to certain schools.

The magic type straddles the line between arcane and divine; but that's what the witch is anyway.

[Fero]

I'm playing a druid 4 / sha'ir 1 / planar shepherd 2 (advancing sha'ir) / arcane hierophant 9, and I've been doing so since level 12 or so when i had the opportunity to do a massive retraining ( I was previously druid 6 / nature's warrior 5 )

I will claim with high confidence that your familiar companion is THE highlight of the class.

1) get enspell familiar feat so your share spell feature has 1 mile of range, the spell enhance familiar is bonkers when used on an animal companion chassis

2) every buff spell ever you cast on yourself will also affect your familiar companion, displacement? twinned. mirror image? twinned. This is huge because the combat utility of an animal companion is miles above a familiar

3) there is a ludicrous amount of personal only arcane spell that becomes very very sexy when you share spell it with the much-chonkier-than-familiar animal companions

4) the arcane list has some nifty spell that would normally not affect animal companions, but that you can have them affect animal companions now, thanks again to share spell. An early such example is enlarge person, for example.

5) the high INT of the familiar companion makes for an easy argument about letting it retraining its feat / take "advanced concept" feats that your GM might feel a normal animal companion wouldn't be able to be smart enough to take

6) high INT = familiar companion do not need to be handled with handle animal, nominally speaking it would be 100% an NPC, but it's likely your GM will let oyu control it as if it was another PC under your control

in short, the familiar companion will quite the beatstick

sidenote, and not something I would recommend trying in an actual table, but you can nominally awaken your familiar companion NI times, since it specifically says it can be affected by harmless effects that target animals even if it's a magical beast, and since there's the technicality that it's a familiar companion, not an animal companion, so it bypasses the awaken limitation that an awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion. That's funny to think about


onto non familiar companion shilling : druid has "the" BFCs : call avalanche, blizzard, whiteout. these are unparalleled for open ground BFC. It's kind of funny you'd have to have enlarge metamagic if you want ot make full actual use of their area

This is very insightful. I am curious about three things: (1) what does Sha'ir bring to the table? I have read the class but never seen one in play. (2) Are you using the Shephard to advance spellcasting and wildshape/companion or do you also have some other use? (3) Why would you advise against Awakening your companion? Thank you

[Inevitability]

Just thinking "out loud".. a wizard/druid mashup would make a pretty good basis for a "witch" class, especially since "warlock" has been commandeered for something else.

Use the druid spell progression, wizard's HD, druid wildshape (at a higher level), wizard's weapons and armor and BAB. Allow the use of wizard spells, but maybe limit access to certain schools.

The magic type straddles the line between arcane and divine; but that's what the witch is anyway.

There's a (partial) witch class right in the DMG (page 175), actually! It's not SRD, so it doesn't get a lot of attention, but it's solid at what it aims for. The class is a bit like the sorcerer (and should probably take its HD/skills/etc from there), but with a spell list that incorporates cleric/druid spells.

[Rebel7284]

An archivist can learn all Druid spells and most (but with some tricks all) Wizard spells (in addition to most other spells too). Also doesn't lose casting progression. Always a good option.

[Khedrac]

If your group isn't high-op then don't worry about all the power-builds suggested, I had great fun with a simple Druid/Sorc/AH.

Ask your DM if you can share anti-magic field with your familiar (technically you should not be able to as it is not personal, but range 0). If your DM says yes then even a moderate grapple-based companion-familiar (I used a smilodon) is absolutely lethal to enemy mages.

Generally go for a stack of buffs on one side and then your combat spells (whether it is blasting or battlefield control) on the other (which is where sorceror works surprisingly well) In practice buff your companion and then provide support while it rips your opponents to shreds.

[Fero]

There's a (partial) witch class right in the DMG (page 175), actually! It's not SRD, so it doesn't get a lot of attention, but it's solid at what it aims for. The class is a bit like the sorcerer (and should probably take its HD/skills/etc from there), but with a spell list that incorporates cleric/druid spells.

I like the Witch from the DMG but think I would need homebrew to fill it out to be match the group's power. Unfortunately, in my experience homebrew gets nerfed the moment it does something even a little bit good.

[Fero]

If your group isn't high-op then don't worry about all the power-builds suggested, I had great fun with a simple Druid/Sorc/AH.

Ask your DM if you can share anti-magic field with your familiar (technically you should not be able to as it is not personal, but range 0). If your DM says yes then even a moderate grapple-based companion-familiar (I used a smilodon) is absolutely lethal to enemy mages.

Generally go for a stack of buffs on one side and then your combat spells (whether it is blasting or battlefield control) on the other (which is where sorceror works surprisingly well) In practice buff your companion and then provide support while it rips your opponents to shreds.

The group is moderately OP. I suspect the next game will let Tier 3 and under gestalt so I expect a number of fairly optimized gestalt builds. That said, I am not to worried about it so long as I cab be useful.

I love your anti magic idea. I suspect I can come up with a way to get it on my familiar/companion.

[Anthrowhale]

This is juicy. Thank you! I am potentially fine being 3 caster levels behind. Do you think the Theurgic Specialist CL bonus would stack with Practiced Spellcaster and other CL boosters to let me have a CL significantly higher than HD?

Yes, it would. Theurgic Specialist transforms spellcaster class caster levels into the caster level for specialist spells and you can use practiced spellcaster to improve the caster level of a class.

An obvious choice here is a conjuration specialist. A more overpowered choice is abyssal specialist where you take the aligned spellcaster[chaotic] ACF which makes virtually all spells specialist spells at casting time.


Alternatively, I think I could use Elemental Theurge and Snowcasting for a similar result.

I don't think this works in strict RAW because Elemental Theurgy adds spellcaster class levels to get elemental spell caster level. Theurgic specialist in contrast adds spellcaster class caster levels.


Polymorph+Imbued Summoning+Sanctum Spell is a brilliant combo. Do you think I could add in Greenbound summoning or would the polymorph override the Greenbound? Also, do you know of any way to reduce the bite of the level adjust for Imbued summoning? Thank you!
My understanding is that Greenbound would be lost on polymorph.

You could use versatile spellcaster to pay for Imbued Summoning at the effective cost of half your slots.


These don't work because of the requirement for AH to have BAB +4, you'd need to take some (more) MT levels first.
Good catch.

[Particle_Man]

Magic of the Land is a fun feat to take. In natural settings it add free healing to your buffs. If you are a specialist on the wizard side maybe make necromancy your banned school as the feat doesn't work with necromancy spells.

[Doctor Despair]

I suppose I'd be remiss if I didn't direct you to at least glance at the Horselord thread in my signature. Here's a sample build (one of a few options):



https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/186/141/278/horse-magic-art-hood-wallpaper-preview.jpg


Elf or Half-Elf Build: Wizard 17, Druid 11, Companion 18, Familiar 12


Level
Class
Feats
Class Features
Notes


1
Martial Wilderness Companion Wizard
Extend Spell, Improved Initiative
-
Trades out familiar for 1/2 wizard levels to animal companion; trades out scribe scroll for fighter feat.

Effective Wizard Level: 1
Effective Archivist Level: 0
Effective Companion Level: 0.5
Effective Familiar Level: 0


2
Martial Wilderness Companion Wizard
-
Gain an Animal Companion; thematically, it may as well be a light horse.
Effective Wizard Level: 2
Effective Archivist Level: 0
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


3
Archivist
Sanctum Spell, Scribe Scroll
Dark Knowledge (tactics) 3/day
Effective Wizard Level: 2
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


4
Geomancer
-
Drift 1, spell versatility 0
We use Sanctum Spell to qualify for being able to cast arcane/divine 2nds. We would take levels in Mystic Theurge instead, but we wouldn't be able to meet the skill requirements for Wildrunner, as it requires 8 ranks in survival (which would never be a class skill for us). We would take a level of Mystic Theurge and a level of Ruathar, but then we would not meet the BAB requirements to go into Arcane Hierophant on time.

Effective Wizard Level: 3
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


5
Geomancer
Iron Will
Drift 1, ley lines +1, spell versatility 1
We purchase Iron Will for 3000gp via the Otyugh Hole or the closest setting equivalent.

Effective Wizard Level: 4
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


6
Incantatrix
Endurance, Persistent Spell
Focused Study
Effective Wizard Level: 5
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


7
Incantatrix
-
Cooperative Metamagic
Effective Wizard Level: 6
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


8
Incantatrix
-
Metamagic Effect
Effective Wizard Level: 7
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


9
Wildrunner
Natural Bond
Trackless Step, Fast Movement
Effective Wizard Level: 7
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 4
Effective Familiar Level: 0


10
Arcane Hierophant
-
Companion Familiar, Ignore ASF
Effective Wizard Level: 8
Effective Archivist Level: 2
Effective Companion Level: 5
Effective Familiar Level: 3


11
Arcane Hierophant
-
-
Effective Wizard Level: 9
Effective Archivist Level: 3
Effective Companion Level: 6
Effective Familiar Level: 4


12
Arcane Hierophant
Eschew Materials
-
Effective Wizard Level:10
Effective Archivist Level: 4
Effective Companion Level: 7
Effective Familiar Level: 5


13
Arcane Hierophant
-
Channel animal 2/day
We've delayed access to When Two Become One by two levels, but we entered while losing only two levels of wizard casting instead of four. This means we still get access to 9ths pre-epic.

Effective Wizard Level: 11
Effective Archivist Level: 5
Effective Companion Level: 8
Effective Familiar Level: 6


14
Beastmaster
-
Animal companion, wild empathy
We use one of our horse's bonus feats to qualify for having the Skill Focus: Handle Animal prerequisite. While not necessary, it seems like a decent trade-off to advance our animal companion, as we still get casting access to 9ths with casting as of a level 17 wizard.

Effective Wizard Level: 11
Effective Archivist Level: 5
Effective Companion Level: 12
Effective Familiar Level: 6


15
Arcane Hierophant
Free - Player's Preference
-
Effective Wizard Level: 12
Effective Archivist Level: 6
Effective Companion Level: 13
Effective Familiar Level: 7


16
Arcane Hierophant
-
Channel Plant 1/day
Effective Wizard Level: 13
Effective Archivist Level: 7
Effective Companion Level: 14
Effective Familiar Level: 8


17
Arcane Hierophant
-
-
Effective Wizard Level: 14
Effective Archivist Level: 8
Effective Companion Level: 15
Effective Familiar Level: 9


18
Arcane Hierophant
Free - Player's Preference
Channel Animal 4/day
Effective Wizard Level: 15
Effective Archivist Level: 9
Effective Companion Level: 16
Effective Familiar Level: 10


19
Arcane Hierophant
-
-
Effective Wizard Level: 16
Effective Archivist Level: 10
Effective Companion Level: 17
Effective Familiar Level: 11


20
Arcane Hierophant
-
Channel Plant 2/day
Effective Wizard Level: 17
Effective Archivist Level: 11
Effective Companion Level: 18
Effective Familiar Level: 12






Master ECL
HD
Feats (cumulative)
Familiar Bonuses (cumulative)
Companion Bonuses (cumulative)


2-8
3
Endurance, Run
-
Bonus Tricks +1, Link, Share Spells


9
5
Endurance, Run
-
Natural Armor +2, Str/Dex +1, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +2, Link, Share Spells, Evasion


10
5
Endurance, Run, Bonusx1
Int = 7, Natural Armor +2, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells
Natural Armor +2, Str/Dex +1, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +2, Link, Share Spells, Evasion


11
7
Endurance, Run, Bonusx1
Int = 7, Natural Armor +2, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells
Natural Armor +4, Str/Dex +2, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +3, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion


12-13
7
Endurance, Run, Bonusx1
Int = 8, Natural Armor +3, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master
Natural Armor +4, Str/Dex +2, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +3, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion


14
11
Endurance, Run, Bonusx2
Int = 8, Natural Armor +3, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master
Natural Armor +8, Str/Dex +4, Attribute +2, Bonus Tricks +5, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack


15-16
11
Endurance, Run, Bonusx2
Int = 9, Natural Armor +4, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind
Natural Armor +8, Str/Dex +4, Attribute +2, Bonus Tricks +5, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack


17-18
13
Endurance, Run, Bonusx3
Int = 10, Natural Armor +5, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind
Natural Armor +10, Str/Dex +5, Attribute +3, Bonus Tricks +6, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved Evasion


19
13
Endurance, Run, Bonusx3
Int = 11, Natural Armor +6, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind, Spell Resistance 16
Natural Armor +10, Str/Dex +5, Attribute +3, Bonus Tricks +6, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved Evasion


20
15
Endurance, Run, Bonusx4
Int = 11, Natural Armor +6, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind, Spell Resistance 17
Natural Armor +12, Str/Dex +6, Attribute +3, Bonus Tricks +7, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved Evasion

[ciopo]

This is very insightful. I am curious about three things: (1) what does Sha'ir bring to the table? I have read the class but never seen one in play. (2) Are you using the Shephard to advance spellcasting and wildshape/companion or do you also have some other use? (3) Why would you advise against Awakening your companion? Thank you

I've mentioned Sha'ir only to qualify the feedback I was giving, not because I was recommending that. I am using sha'ir as the arcane part of my build because of table reason, technically speaking that build is a bit homebrewed, long story short I am a shapeshift variant druid, but I was bummed about not having an animal companion with it. Fast forward some months of leveling and arcane hierophant crosses my awareness, and I got excited about "uhhhh, with this maybe I can get the animal companion back!" Sha'ir is there because it was greenlit by my GM as being both arcane and divine, thus I could advance it with planar shepherd, thus "gaining back" the animal companion with the planar shepherd level, while still progressing shapeshift, and with shapeshift qualifying for planar shepherd in place of wild shape.

In short, many hoops to get the end result of being a shapeshift variant druid while still getting an animal companion, because my GM ruled "alternate features count as the original feature for the purpose of *stuff* that require or advances the original feature", whereas asking back the Y of the written "you trade X and Y for Z" didn't fly :)

as for advising against awakening the companion : because it's only a technicality that would let you keep it as your companion afterward, it's fun ot think about "omg 999 HD companion!" but the likely result is you'll get it banned and/or taken away from you :)

[eBarbarossa]

I'm playing a Wizard/Druid/War Weaver/Arcane Hierophant at the moment with the Magic of the Land feat. I spam buff spells on the party while healing them on the side and every now and then I annoy our oppenents with obscure spells that throw them out of their shtick. Great fun :-)

[Fero]

I'm playing a Wizard/Druid/War Weaver/Arcane Hierophant at the moment with the Magic of the Land feat. I spam buff spells on the party while healing them on the side and every now and then I annoy our oppenents with obscure spells that throw them out of their shtick. Great fun :-)

It is funny you mention War Weaver as I was just wondering if it would work with Arcane Hierophant. How do you handle the additional losses to your Druid casting?

[Fero]

I suppose I'd be remiss if I didn't direct you to at least glance at the Horselord thread in my signature. Here's a sample build (one of a few options):



https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/186/141/278/horse-magic-art-hood-wallpaper-preview.jpg


Elf or Half-Elf Build: Wizard 17, Druid 11, Companion 18, Familiar 12


Level
Class
Feats
Class Features
Notes


1
Martial Wilderness Companion Wizard
Extend Spell, Improved Initiative
-
Trades out familiar for 1/2 wizard levels to animal companion; trades out scribe scroll for fighter feat.

Effective Wizard Level: 1
Effective Archivist Level: 0
Effective Companion Level: 0.5
Effective Familiar Level: 0


2
Martial Wilderness Companion Wizard
-
Gain an Animal Companion; thematically, it may as well be a light horse.
Effective Wizard Level: 2
Effective Archivist Level: 0
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


3
Archivist
Sanctum Spell, Scribe Scroll
Dark Knowledge (tactics) 3/day
Effective Wizard Level: 2
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


4
Geomancer
-
Drift 1, spell versatility 0
We use Sanctum Spell to qualify for being able to cast arcane/divine 2nds. We would take levels in Mystic Theurge instead, but we wouldn't be able to meet the skill requirements for Wildrunner, as it requires 8 ranks in survival (which would never be a class skill for us). We would take a level of Mystic Theurge and a level of Ruathar, but then we would not meet the BAB requirements to go into Arcane Hierophant on time.

Effective Wizard Level: 3
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


5
Geomancer
Iron Will
Drift 1, ley lines +1, spell versatility 1
We purchase Iron Will for 3000gp via the Otyugh Hole or the closest setting equivalent.

Effective Wizard Level: 4
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


6
Incantatrix
Endurance, Persistent Spell
Focused Study
Effective Wizard Level: 5
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


7
Incantatrix
-
Cooperative Metamagic
Effective Wizard Level: 6
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


8
Incantatrix
-
Metamagic Effect
Effective Wizard Level: 7
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 1
Effective Familiar Level: 0


9
Wildrunner
Natural Bond
Trackless Step, Fast Movement
Effective Wizard Level: 7
Effective Archivist Level: 1
Effective Companion Level: 4
Effective Familiar Level: 0


10
Arcane Hierophant
-
Companion Familiar, Ignore ASF
Effective Wizard Level: 8
Effective Archivist Level: 2
Effective Companion Level: 5
Effective Familiar Level: 3


11
Arcane Hierophant
-
-
Effective Wizard Level: 9
Effective Archivist Level: 3
Effective Companion Level: 6
Effective Familiar Level: 4


12
Arcane Hierophant
Eschew Materials
-
Effective Wizard Level:10
Effective Archivist Level: 4
Effective Companion Level: 7
Effective Familiar Level: 5


13
Arcane Hierophant
-
Channel animal 2/day
We've delayed access to When Two Become One by two levels, but we entered while losing only two levels of wizard casting instead of four. This means we still get access to 9ths pre-epic.

Effective Wizard Level: 11
Effective Archivist Level: 5
Effective Companion Level: 8
Effective Familiar Level: 6


14
Beastmaster
-
Animal companion, wild empathy
We use one of our horse's bonus feats to qualify for having the Skill Focus: Handle Animal prerequisite. While not necessary, it seems like a decent trade-off to advance our animal companion, as we still get casting access to 9ths with casting as of a level 17 wizard.

Effective Wizard Level: 11
Effective Archivist Level: 5
Effective Companion Level: 12
Effective Familiar Level: 6


15
Arcane Hierophant
Free - Player's Preference
-
Effective Wizard Level: 12
Effective Archivist Level: 6
Effective Companion Level: 13
Effective Familiar Level: 7


16
Arcane Hierophant
-
Channel Plant 1/day
Effective Wizard Level: 13
Effective Archivist Level: 7
Effective Companion Level: 14
Effective Familiar Level: 8


17
Arcane Hierophant
-
-
Effective Wizard Level: 14
Effective Archivist Level: 8
Effective Companion Level: 15
Effective Familiar Level: 9


18
Arcane Hierophant
Free - Player's Preference
Channel Animal 4/day
Effective Wizard Level: 15
Effective Archivist Level: 9
Effective Companion Level: 16
Effective Familiar Level: 10


19
Arcane Hierophant
-
-
Effective Wizard Level: 16
Effective Archivist Level: 10
Effective Companion Level: 17
Effective Familiar Level: 11


20
Arcane Hierophant
-
Channel Plant 2/day
Effective Wizard Level: 17
Effective Archivist Level: 11
Effective Companion Level: 18
Effective Familiar Level: 12






Master ECL
HD
Feats (cumulative)
Familiar Bonuses (cumulative)
Companion Bonuses (cumulative)


2-8
3
Endurance, Run
-
Bonus Tricks +1, Link, Share Spells


9
5
Endurance, Run
-
Natural Armor +2, Str/Dex +1, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +2, Link, Share Spells, Evasion


10
5
Endurance, Run, Bonusx1
Int = 7, Natural Armor +2, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells
Natural Armor +2, Str/Dex +1, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +2, Link, Share Spells, Evasion


11
7
Endurance, Run, Bonusx1
Int = 7, Natural Armor +2, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells
Natural Armor +4, Str/Dex +2, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +3, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion


12-13
7
Endurance, Run, Bonusx1
Int = 8, Natural Armor +3, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master
Natural Armor +4, Str/Dex +2, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +3, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion


14
11
Endurance, Run, Bonusx2
Int = 8, Natural Armor +3, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master
Natural Armor +8, Str/Dex +4, Attribute +2, Bonus Tricks +5, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack


15-16
11
Endurance, Run, Bonusx2
Int = 9, Natural Armor +4, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind
Natural Armor +8, Str/Dex +4, Attribute +2, Bonus Tricks +5, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack


17-18
13
Endurance, Run, Bonusx3
Int = 10, Natural Armor +5, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind
Natural Armor +10, Str/Dex +5, Attribute +3, Bonus Tricks +6, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved Evasion


19
13
Endurance, Run, Bonusx3
Int = 11, Natural Armor +6, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind, Spell Resistance 16
Natural Armor +10, Str/Dex +5, Attribute +3, Bonus Tricks +6, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved Evasion


20
15
Endurance, Run, Bonusx4
Int = 11, Natural Armor +6, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind, Spell Resistance 17
Natural Armor +12, Str/Dex +6, Attribute +3, Bonus Tricks +7, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved Evasion




This is a very next level build and I admit I am still struggling to understand how it all works. How do you even get a Shugenja spell anyways?

[Doctor Despair]

This is a very next level build and I admit I am still struggling to understand how it all works. How do you even get a Shugenja spell anyways?

Archivists can learn any divine spell in the same way that wizards learn new wizard spells. Shugenja spells are divine. Check out the "Horselord" thread in my sig for more information, options, gear, etc.

[eBarbarossa]

It is funny you mention War Weaver as I was just wondering if it would work with Arcane Hierophant. How do you handle the additional losses to your Druid casting?

Badly, in fact. ^^
But then, this build was never optimised and I got along well as the buffer/wildcard in the group.

[Fero]

Badly, in fact. ^^
But then, this build was never optimised and I got along well as the buffer/wildcard in the group.

That is awesome. I love it!

[eBarbarossa]

By the way, since Magic of the Land only works in natural settings, you should cast Acorn of Far Travel every now and then. This will give you at least one shot at using it in a city or similar locales.

[Particle_Man]

By the way, since Magic of the Land only works in natural settings, you should cast Acorn of Far Travel every now and then. This will give you at least one shot at using it in a city or similar locales.

What book is Acorn of Far Travel in?

[eBarbarossa]

What book is Acorn of Far Travel in?

None. It was in an article on the WotC website. you can still access it here: https://web.archive.org/web/20161101150341/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a

[Paragon]

I know this isn't the topic but I figure it might interest you or some of you
You can Druid3/Savage Bard2/Green Whisperer2/Arcane Hierophant10/GW3

With Natural Bond and Chaos Music (DrM feat) you have many fun options that aren't as good as if you went full druid or bard but the more you get is amazing (mine's the world's strongest hippy)

Druid casting 18, Bard casting 17
Bard music 11, Druid AC lvl 13 (+ Familiar 17), Wildshape 13.

Much fun

[Zombulian]

Thank you for the Handbook links (somehow I missed these). I am interested in spellcasting and, to a lesser extent, item creation. I will probably use the companion and wildshape features but they won't be my focus. I am primarily interested in finding ways to combine spells and Meta spell effects to do interesting things. I suspect I will grab Invisible Spell and at least one Energy Affinity at some point. For some reason acidic Call Lightning speaks to me.

Check out the Sidhe Scholar variant for the Druid. Unfortunately they don't get their crafting class feature until level 12, but they do get some other cool stuff like a boosted Animal Companion and a bonus to Know (Arcane).