Evil Turn Undead?

[Inevitability]

Good characters have a few ways to obtain Rebuke Undead (Bone Knight, Death Delver), but what are the options for an Evil character who wants to Turn Undead? I'm seeing Sun Domain Mystic from the DCS, and perhaps a Paladin of Tyranny taking the Red Falcon Substitution Level (which explicitly grants Turn Undead and is dedicated to a LN goddess). Are there other ways?

[Zanos]

Why, out of curiosity? Isn't rebuke undead strictly better than turn?

[hamishspence]

Possibly being a LE cleric of Kelemvor? LE is technically legal since he's LN and the one step rule applies and from page 33 of Faiths and Pantheons:

"Clerics of Kelemvor never rebuke or command undead".

Ruling that all clerics of Kelemvor, even LE ones, get Turn/Destroy instead, seems like a reasonable way to handle it, rather than by having LE clerics have an ability that's a "gross violation of the clerical code" to use and one which will deprive them of their powers if they do.

[Tzardok]

I think I remember a few evil deities in 3rd party and homebrew that grant turn undead to all of their clerics, simply because they hate undead. See also Loki in OOTS (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1107.html). When that comic dropped, the Class and Level Geekery thread had a lot of discussion how it's possible for an evil cleric to turn undead, and I think that was the only option they found.

Edit: And hamishspence brings out a 1st party example. Thank you.

[Inevitability]

Why, out of curiosity? Isn't rebuke undead strictly better than turn?

Some feats/prcs/effects have no alignment restriction but still require Turning specifically.

Also, having both turn and rebuke gives you two separate pools for fueling divine/devotion feats.

edit: Also maybe you want to control a deathless?

[Mechalich]

Why, out of curiosity? Isn't rebuke undead strictly better than turn?

Not necessarily. Turn makes undead run away, rebuke just makes them cower (note that if they can't run away the effect is exactly the same). In either case, after 10 rounds the effect ends. With turning, the undead are now, probably, some distance away, while with rebuke it's quite possible they are still right next to you. There are definitely situations where turn is more useful.

[ShurikVch]

The "Aztec Mythos IV" article (Dragon #358) includes NE deity of the Sun, whose Clerics are always channeling Positive Energy - regardless of their alignment

[Zanos]

Some feats/prcs/effects have no alignment restriction but still require Turning specifically.

Also, having both turn and rebuke gives you two separate pools for fueling divine/devotion feats.

edit: Also maybe you want to control a deathless?
Multiple pools makes sense, but isn't rebuking considered turning for all prereqs?


Not necessarily. Turn makes undead run away, rebuke just makes them cower (note that if they can't run away the effect is exactly the same). In either case, after 10 rounds the effect ends. With turning, the undead are now, probably, some distance away, while with rebuke it's quite possible they are still right next to you. There are definitely situations where turn is more useful.
Cowering creatures take no actions, so in most cases this will give you ten rounds of free attacks on the creature. Creatures that run away run away and their best possible speed, and while usually removed from the encounter are very annoying to chase down and destroy. It would be very difficult to rebuke an undead creature you can't destroy in ten rounds. So while there are situations making the undead flee is better, I think it's a very tiny proportion of scenarios.

[Inevitability]

Multiple pools makes sense, but isn't rebuking considered turning for all prereqs?

I don't think so? Quite a few things, like Ancestral Whispers or Shield Maiden's Grace, specifically mention undead turning, rather than turning or rebuking as is the case for (for instance) DMM. Even if it applies for prereqs, rebuking doesn't fuel the feats.

[Thurbane]

Lumi (MM3) Clerics always channel positive energy regardless of alignment.

[Darg]

I don't think so? Quite a few things, like Ancestral Whispers or Shield Maiden's Grace, specifically mention undead turning, rather than turning or rebuking as is the case for (for instance) DMM. Even if it applies for prereqs, rebuking doesn't fuel the feats.

It's the same pool of attempts. Rebuking/commanding/bolstering uses your turning attempts as mentioned by the class feature and the turn or rebuke undead special attack entry in the PHB. If you don't use turning attempts, you wouldn't have any daily uses.

The reason those feats do not mention rebuke uses, is because there is no need because you can't turn and rebuke. It's only one or the other. So when a feat has a prerequisite only mentioning one, it's only obvious they don't need to type out both.

[ShurikVch]

Dragon #321 have Infused Warrior and Infused Spellcaster PrC: they're designed as a "Good counterpart" to Tainted Warrior/Tainted Spellcaster which were published earlier
The thing is: Clerics who were using Negative Energy to Rebuke Undead and spontaneously cast Inflict spells, upon the entry start to Turn Undead and spontaneously cast Cure spells
While you can't advance in the PrC without being non-Evil, you can very well get the 1st level at any alignment
(Note: Infused Spellcaster grants only half of spellcasting progression, but - since all the CL progressions are at odd levels - you would still get your "+1 CL" with 1-level dip)

Another possible way is: take the Assume Supernatural Ability (Turn Undead) feat, then - change into Xag-Ya