Setting up a Soulknife for success

[KCWONDER99]

Hiya all, I've been interested in the Soulknife Rogue/l and Psi warrior classes for a bit but while I feel I could multiclass the fighter to make it a bit more varied,fun and consistent the Soulknife seems to need to be single classed for a while to get its cool features.

If you have a fun multiclass theory for the Soulknife or have played one and liked a build you did please let me know!

My worry points about the soulknife
1. Mostly single weapon throughout and makes magic weapons a difficult choice between class feature and a magic weapon
2. If you go scouting solo the ability to get the sneak attack becomes vastly harder to connect until you get invisibility
3. Apart from the Teleport feature later level features are not too combat impacting
4. No opportunity attack without a fighting style feat spent as your weapon is gone(I've heard)

Tl;drLove the flavour if soulknife but worried it can't last to higher levels LMK how I'm wrong

[Psyren]

1. Mostly single weapon throughout and makes magic weapons a difficult choice between class feature and a magic weapon

Au contraire, they're fine with magic weapons. You're no worse at using a magic dagger or shortsword you find than any other rogue, and unlike them you don't really need a second one either.



2. If you go scouting solo the ability to get the sneak attack becomes vastly harder to connect until you get invisibility

Yes but, you really shouldn't be getting into combat while scouting anyway. The purpose of scouting is to get intel and relay back to your team. Getting into fights on your own is a great way to need rescuing (or reroll.)



3. Apart from the Teleport feature later level features are not too combat impacting

Well, not only does your sneak attack continue to scale, but your psychic dice do as well. This increases your DPR (once you get Homing Strikes) as you'll be able to turn more misses into hits with the latter, and thus be more likely to get SA each round.


4. No opportunity attack without a fighting style feat spent as your weapon is gone(I've heard)

As per #1, nothing actually stops you from using a physical weapon; just have it in your hand at the end of your turn and you can OA just fine.

[Leon]

If you love the flavor then play it and not let a bunch of what ifs at char creation stop you. As you go and find that it isn't working as you had thought it may that's when you consider that maybe some MC levels in something might work well or enhance the initial idea you had.

the worry point of "If you go solo scouting" you should be focusing on finding out what is out there and not solo fighting it if your indeed scouting (surprise killing anything in 5e is impossible beyond very low hp things unless your DM lets you revert back to a Coup de grace system that actually works)

[Damon_Tor]

For one thing, understand that until level 9 your subclass doesn't really give you any additional combat ability. The mind blade is basically a ribbon. The soulknife is a skillmonkey subclass.

If you don't understand this, then yes, getting a magic weapon is a deflating moment for a soulknife. If you want a subclass that generates a magic psychic weapon the arcane trickster with a shadow blade is a better choice.

[Psyren]

For one thing, understand that until level 9 your subclass doesn't really give you any additional combat ability. The mind blade is basically a ribbon. The soulknife is a skillmonkey subclass.

I'd say it does give combat ability before 9 - you effectively get TWF Fighting Style for free at 3rd level (because Soulknife's offhand, due to not actually needing TWF, gets your Dex mod to damage.) You also get Thrown Weapon Style for free since you can "draw" as many blades as you have attacks, including the bonus action attack. This gives you more damage than a normal TWF rogue, even more if someone in your party has Haste.


If you don't understand this, then yes, getting a magic weapon is a deflating moment for a soulknife. If you want a subclass that generates a magic psychic weapon the arcane trickster with a shadow blade is a better choice.

Arcane Trickster is ultimately stronger when optimized, but I wouldn't go for it for this specific fantasy - they don't get their magic psychic weapon until 7th level, and can only make it 2x per long rest when they do.

[Dork_Forge]

Hiya all, I've been interested in the Soulknife Rogue/l and Psi warrior classes for a bit but while I feel I could multiclass the fighter to make it a bit more varied,fun and consistent the Soulknife seems to need to be single classed for a while to get its cool features.

If you have a fun multiclass theory for the Soulknife or have played one and liked a build you did please let me know!

My worry points about the soulknife
1. Mostly single weapon throughout and makes magic weapons a difficult choice between class feature and a magic weapon
2. If you go scouting solo the ability to get the sneak attack becomes vastly harder to connect until you get invisibility
3. Apart from the Teleport feature later level features are not too combat impacting
4. No opportunity attack without a fighting style feat spent as your weapon is gone(I've heard)

Tl;drLove the flavour if soulknife but worried it can't last to higher levels LMK how I'm wrong

1) You don't need a magic weapon like other Rogues, your default isn't mundane BPS. And if you do want to use one, you can do so just as well as the vast majority of other Rogues. In reality, this will likely mean you'll just get/take non-weapon items, which can be far more interesting.

2) You shouldn't really be getting into fights if you're solo, but the only thing you lose out on is allies in melee. You still have Hiding, Steady Aim etc. and if you're really concerned you can just take Find Familiar from one of many feats, or bring a party member's with you. You shouldn't really be getting into many fights when scouting alone, but you're hardly out of luck should you choose to.

3) This seems like a fundamental understanding of the subclass, you get an upgrade in damage type and a significantly better version of having the Two Weapon Fighting style. You will excel at damage, not hurt for it. And you seem to be focusing on the teleport, but Homing Strikes at the same level is more impactful in combat.

4) This is a technicality, I've never come across a DM (myself included) that would actually stop you doing it with your psychic blades, so ask your DM. If not, juggle a dagger, it's silly, but so is the technicality you can't use your blades for OAs.


For one thing, understand that until level 9 your subclass doesn't really give you any additional combat ability. The mind blade is basically a ribbon. The soulknife is a skillmonkey subclass.

The damage bump from the blades is significant.


If you don't understand this, then yes, getting a magic weapon is a deflating moment for a soulknife. If you want a subclass that generates a magic psychic weapon the arcane trickster with a shadow blade is a better choice.

Executing the energy blade concept that way is really poor unless you're playing a high-level game and invest in a good Con save.


I'd say it does give combat ability before 9 - you effectively get TWF Fighting Style for free at 3rd level (because Soulknife's offhand, due to not actually needing TWF, gets your Dex mod to damage.) You also get Thrown Weapon Style for free since you can "draw" as many blades as you have attacks, including the bonus action attack. This gives you more damage than a normal TWF rogue, even more if someone in your party has Haste.

Agreed


Arcane Trickster is ultimately stronger when optimized, but I wouldn't go for it for this specific fantasy - they don't get their magic psychic weapon until 7th level, and can only make it 2x per long rest when they do.

Gotta disagree on ultimately stronger as a clear winner, more neck and neck for the most part.

[KCWONDER99]

Thanks for the feedback all. Point 1 does still give me mild concern as (I can use the class feature or get a magic weapon to replace it) seems to be the concensus which isn't ideal for a class with cool psychic blades as half it's main features.

But for the rest the points are well taken, scouting shouldn't be starting fights for sure.

I'll continue to keep an eye out for feats or MC that may help me get fully comfortable with the class and see where I end up!

[Damon_Tor]

Thanks for the feedback all. Point 1 does still give me mild concern as (I can use the class feature or get a magic weapon to replace it) seems to be the concensus which isn't ideal for a class with cool psychic blades as half it's main features.

But for the rest the points are well taken, scouting shouldn't be starting fights for sure.

I'll continue to keep an eye out for feats or MC that may help me get fully comfortable with the class and see where I end up!

If you want a multiclass option that has some synergy with the mind blade, the monk is an option. The mind blade counts as a monk weapon, and so monk levels are one of the few ways you can increase it's damage, but the fact that you lose out on more sneak attack dice kinds of kills it. And that's going to be the story with any multiclass. You can also use focused aim in tandem with homing strikes if you need to. Battlemaster works okay for some of the same reasons.

There aren't many feats which work with mind blade. Thrown weapon fighting style should function just fine for adding a little damage, so there's that. But you don't benefit from most other feats because your weapon types aren't useful, the fact that your weapon doesn't actually exist when you aren't attacking with it, and your damage type doesn't have feat support.

I'll draw your attention to an interesting interaction though: the skulker feat reads "When you are hidden from a creature and miss it with a ranged weapon attack, making the attack doesn't reveal your position." There's nothing about this feature that says that if this miss somehow becomes a hit by other means this feature does not apply: by RAW, you could make an attack, miss, remain hidden due to skulker, and turn the miss into a hit using homing strikes. Your DM might well overrule this based on their understanding of the mechanics however.

[Psyren]

Gotta disagree on ultimately stronger as a clear winner, more neck and neck for the most part.

And that's fair, I think at 95% of tables they will be neck and neck in practice, but I do think the AT's optimization ceiling is higher (and continues to grow every time they print new low-level spells and races with spellcasting options, while Soulknife stays more or less constant.)



I'll draw your attention to an interesting interaction though: the skulker feat reads "When you are hidden from a creature and miss it with a ranged weapon attack, making the attack doesn't reveal your position." There's nothing about this feature that says that if this miss somehow becomes a hit by other means this feature does not apply: by RAW, you could make an attack, miss, remain hidden due to skulker, and turn the miss into a hit using homing strikes. Your DM might well overrule this based on their understanding of the mechanics however.

I personally wouldn't allow this, simply because my reading of "turn the miss into a hit" abilities is that the miss never happened in the fiction of the game.