Striker. Third Party's Grand Solution to [Strike] talents.

[SangoProduction]

There is a brand of talents in Spheres of power tagged as [Strike]. These let you transfer the spell as a standard action... if you hit with your weapon. Generally speaking, singular weapon attacks tend to be rather garbage. They also (wisely) aren't considered "attack" actions by Spheres of Might, meaning you can't do degenerate rider stacking (through SoM at least... at least if you want the [strike] spell).

So, you might get like (+2d6 + Str + Enhancement) damage, adjusted for size, of course. Maybe an occasional poison or "coating," if you've got an Alchemy sphere friend. That definitely isn't nothing, especially at low level... but often it comes at the cost of using regular AC as opposed to Touch AC. Touch AC tends to hover right around 10, no matter what CR you go to. And even for highly dexterous creatures, they maintain that when hitting full AC.
And for some spheres, it's adding an attack roll that never otherwise needs to be had, which adds a multiplicative point of failure.

So, in general, unless you're really digging hard for some degenerate way to stack riders on riders on riders with your weapon, [Strike] talents aren't the way to go. (Indeed, you probably want to go with SoM instead. I even have a guide on all the rider effects you can add using SoM.)
But isn't it really such a neat idea to have an archer who pulls out an explosive arrow one round, and then a net arrow to nab the guy running off with the money, and finally an arrow with a rope attached to it (which works, because fantasy)?
...Well, you can literally fluff your magic however you want. But some people like some more mechanical backbone to their fluff, and thus, [Strike] talents fulfil this great niche of being a mechanical justification for fluff - the texture to the flavor.

The problem? They cost a talent. For each sphere.

Look what just released (to the wiki, the book's been out for a while).

Source: Expanded Spheres: Baron's Lost Apocrypha

The Striker drawback can be applied as a sphere-specific drawback to any sphere that possesses a [strike] talent. You gain the [strike] talent associated with the sphere as a bonus talent for taking this drawback, but can only use that sphere’s abilities through weapon attacks made using a [strike] talent. This drawback can be selected once per sphere and does not grant an additional talent besides the associated [strike] talent

The first universal, non-general, drawback. You are forced to use [strike] (with the selected sphere, for which you are gaining the [strike] talent), and you gain that talent otherwise for free. Great. And it doesn't even unduly hinder you when you just want your Destructive Blasts to be from your great-grand pappy's relic sword of Husdis, but still be able to heal with a touch, and exude a brilliant holy aura of blinding light.


I think this idea of "universal" drawbacks has great potential. Like (literally made up in the past 2 minutes), perhaps an "Overextended" drawback, which grants you the effect of a number of [range] talents of a given sphere, but you can't use it closer than half the maximum range. Might be too easy to take on Warp sphere. Also doesn't really serve the same role of opening up a unique style of casting as Striker. But you get the point. It has potential.

[Kitsuneymg]

Strike talents are what you use because magus 2 was too much of an investment somehow. Or because you want spell attack, whirlwind as your schtick.

Honestly. The drawbacks of using strike talents are so much that I’d always advise magus 2 instead. You already mentioned lackluster damage, but didn’t include that they don’t allow “holding the charge” if you miss. A magus at least can use that and try to hit next round with a full attack or whatever.

[QuadraticGish]

This kind of thing is why in my game I allow the old Improved Energy Blade feat with the stipulation that it can't stack with standard energy blade. Ideally, I think it could be an easy feat if you made it so that you can load your weapon with any strike talent at the cost of your swift and not being able to use the same strike talent again that round. Otherwise, as Kitsuneymg said Mystic Magus 2 is pretty much the superior option for doing similar things since Adv. Spellstrike counts as an attack action outright, which means special attack actions can be stack on top of it. The other alternative is pretty much the Sphere archetype for the Legendary Magus off hand. Added bonus there is getting access to Spell Combat counting as a special attack action instead.

[SangoProduction]

Strike talents are what you use because magus 2 was too much of an investment somehow. Or because you want spell attack, whirlwind as your schtick.

Honestly. The drawbacks of using strike talents are so much that I’d always advise magus 2 instead. You already mentioned lackluster damage, but didn’t include that they don’t allow “holding the charge” if you miss. A magus at least can use that and try to hit next round with a full attack or whatever.

Very good point. In Vancian casting, normally you get to hold the charge for missed melee spells.

[StSword]

Note- Arcane Carnage (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/champion-feats#:~:text=Arcane%20Carnage%20(Champion%2C%20Co mbat),-Prerequisites%3A%20Berserker%20sphere&text=The%20sphere%20effect%20applies%20to,attacks% 20granted%20by%20Advancing%20Carnage.) basically allows you to use strike talents with cleave attacks, likewise the Spell Attack, Whirlwind allows one to use strike talents with whirlwind attacks.

Spell Attack makes using a strike talent a special attack action that is therefore incompatible with other special attack actions, but as an attack action can benefit from other sphere of might talents.

The Improved Spell Combat allows you to make your enhanced strike and get the rest of your full attack for a spell point, which sadly do not likewise gain the benefit of the strike talent.

The Sphere Virtuoso feat- If you buy two different strike talents from two different spheres of course (including cryptic strike and energy strike) you effectively know every strike talent from every sphere. Obviously you have to actually know the sphere in question to benefit from these virtual talents.

So if it's worth the investment in feats, one is not limited to only making one attack a turn, not gaining the benefit of SoM talents, or having to buy every single strike talent individually.

All those feats are on the wiki, by the by.

[SangoProduction]

Note- Arcane Carnage (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/champion-feats#:~:text=Arcane%20Carnage%20(Champion%2C%20Co mbat),-Prerequisites%3A%20Berserker%20sphere&text=The%20sphere%20effect%20applies%20to,attacks% 20granted%20by%20Advancing%20Carnage.) basically allows you to use strike talents with cleave attacks, likewise the Spell Attack, Whirlwind allows one to use strike talents with whirlwind attacks.

Spell Attack makes using a strike talent a special attack action that is therefore incompatible with other special attack actions, but as an attack action can benefit from other sphere of might talents.

The Improved Spell Combat allows you to make your enhanced strike and get the rest of your full attack for a spell point, which sadly do not likewise gain the benefit of the strike talent.

The Sphere Virtuoso feat- If you buy two different strike talents from two different spheres of course (including cryptic strike and energy strike) you effectively know every strike talent from every sphere. Obviously you have to actually know the sphere in question to benefit from these virtual talents.

So if it's worth the investment in feats, one is not limited to only making one attack a turn, not gaining the benefit of SoM talents, or having to buy every single strike talent individually.

All those feats are on the wiki, by the by.

Very good finds.

[Kitsuneymg]

Very good point. In Vancian casting, normally you get to hold the charge for missed melee spells.

It’s not a vancian/spheres thing. It’s the way the talents tend to be worded.

“As a standard action, you may make a single weapon attack in conjunction with making a TALENT. This casting cannot be reduced below a standard action, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless as usual if making a ranged attack. If the target is struck by the attack, it is also struck by the TALENT. If using a scatter weapon, the strike only applies to a single target, chosen at the time of attack.”

This seems to be the common structure. So you spend a standard action to make an attack and use a talent. If you miss, you wasted the action and any sp. You could probably argue that you can hold that charge (if it’s normally a melee touch attack,) but the thing that lets stabbing them apply a TALENT is itself a sphere effect. It doesn’t extend beyond its action. Plus casting a second spell automatically ends the first. I guess you could do a regular melee touch next round if you whiff and want to hold it (and your GM likes your argument that it’s still a touch attack even though it doesn’t seem to be.)

I really don’t like the way it’s worded, but that wording also keeps you from pre casting the strike before combat and then doing a special attack action/full attack later to discharge it.

Spellstrike is worded as a replacement for any touch attack you would normally use. So it works for free touch and subsequent attempts to touch. Indeed, if I’m remembering the rules right, you don’t have the option to not apply the spell on a hit if you’re holding it.

Anyway. While I love spheres, there are many small issues like this that crop up in the system. Paladins no having any real way to get back their awesome liturgies is another one. Like I want a sphere paladin that acknowledges that the base paladin spelllist is far better than 4/9 makes it look and gives some of the cool unique things back somehow.

But that’s just the influence of the paladin tiering thread I think.

But yeah. This is an easy drawback to make and I kinda assumed it was already built into each sphere. I was shocked to see it wasn’t. But there is sphere virtuoso already. It’s a feat, but a pretty cool one.


Sphere Virtuoso

Prerequisites: Casting class feature; two or more talents from any sphere that both have the instill, mass, range or strike descriptors.

Benefit: If you possess two talents from separate spheres that both possess the instill, mass, range, or strike descriptors, you count as possessing all talents of that corresponding type from all spheres that possess such a talent. You must possess the corresponding base sphere before gaining access to any talent, and if such a talent can be taken multiple times, this only counts as possessing the talent once.

Example: If a character possesses Energy Strike and Cryptic Strike, they would count as possessing all other talents with the strike descriptor. If a character possesses Instill Life and Instill Death, they would count as possessing all other talents with the instill descriptor.

[StSword]

You can cast paladin spells as a spherecaster through, with DM cooperation, by using ritual feats (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/ritual-feats).

Ritual Caster feat to use a ritual whose base sphere you don't have.

Spell Dabbler and Spell Adept allow you to spend an hour a day converting your rituals into spells prepared, up to 4 spells per spell level.

And I say DM's cooperation not just because of course the DM has veto power, but because this is far easier if the DM allows that rituals of paladin spells are something accessible.

[Kitsuneymg]

You can cast paladin spells as a spherecaster through, with DM cooperation, by using ritual feats (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/ritual-feats).

Ritual Caster feat to use a ritual whose base sphere you don't have.

Spell Dabbler and Spell Adept allow you to spend an hour a day converting your rituals into spells prepared, up to 4 spells per spell level.

And I say DM's cooperation not just because of course the DM has veto power, but because this is far easier if the DM allows that rituals of paladin spells are something accessible.

Yea. You have to burn two feats on a feat tight class to get that. Unless you’re abusing CL or the fact that paladin spells have some “early entry” spell levels, it’s an absolutely terrible. Just don’t play SoP paladin.

Ritual caster is completely and totally unusable, as it overrides the swift action casting time of the liturgies. Which defeats the entire point of the spells.

Paladins play better and feel better with vancian magic. Which is a massive problem for sop. Rangers have the same issue, but reaper is essentially a replacement for the class that converts it “right.”

[DrMartin]

This would also be a clean way to do alchemist sans alchemy sphere, doing the same with [instill] talents

[Sneak Dog]

With the way sphere-specific drawbacks work, I'm not sure this is even filling a gap that that same book didn't create. Already many if not all spheres with [strike] talents would let you lower the range of the base ability to acquire a talent from that sphere, which can be the [strike] talent. (Same for instill.) This book published a bunch of new [strike] talents, so some of the these might not have had any option yet. This is a fine way to solve this problem it creates.



So, in general, unless you're really digging hard for some degenerate way to stack riders on riders on riders with your weapon, [Strike] talents aren't the way to go. (Indeed, you probably want to go with SoM instead. I even have a guide on all the rider effects you can add using SoM.)


On a sidenote, it's a fine way to stack a rider on your attack action. It costs a magic talent and a spell attack feat (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/champion-feats#toc55) to make it a special attack action. Spells can be terrifying riders.

[DrMartin]

I think that a "you can only cast your spells as instill" drawback is limiting enough to grant extra spell points on top of the instill talents.

strike might be less limiting than instill - although it does prevent the use of certain spheres altogether, unless one homebrews the missing talents and figures out the interactions (divination strike - bonk them in the head to grant visions of the future)