Truenaming on a tight schedule

[YellowJohn]

There are some spells (not utterances) in Tome of Magic that require you speak the target's Truename. My theoretical favorite is Truename Dispel - you get a complete list of all the magic affecting the target and choose what stays and what goes, no caster level check required.

Obviously it's great for removing debuffs from your friends, but using it offensively also looks super effective - if I can find the target's truename.

So... let's say you just found a previously unknown enemy living under a huge buff-stack. How do you find its truename on a timescale usable in combat?

[pabelfly]

There are some spells (not utterances) in Tome of Magic that require you speak the target's Truename. My theoretical favorite is Truename Dispel - you get a complete list of all the magic affecting the target and choose what stays and what goes, no caster level check required.

Obviously it's great for removing debuffs from your friends, but using it offensively also looks super effective - if I can find the target's truename.

So... let's say you just found a previously unknown enemy living under a huge buff-stack. How do you find its truename on a timescale usable in combat?

Isn't it just the Truespeak Check (15 + 2 x CR of Enemy) + 2 ?

[sreservoir]

The spell requires a personal truename, and I don't see any good way to speed that up beyond 8 HD/week.

[Darg]

Yeah, the only way to speed it up is to increase the number of people making checks. Even then it takes at least a week. Some options for roleplay quick access to a truename is maybe a wish spell or miracle or by dm fiat maybe one check per successful Vision spell.

[Gnaeus]

I suddenly see a vision of trying to determine truename via commune. Does his truename have more than 9 letters? Is the first letter between A and M?.........

[Rebel7284]

With a fast enough time-flowing demi-plane, you could do weeks of research in a round. Of course this is one of the highest forms of high level cheese.

[daremetoidareyo]

Yeah, the only way to speed it up is to increase the number of people making checks. Even then it takes at least a week. Some options for roleplay quick access to a truename is maybe a wish spell or miracle or by dm fiat maybe one check per successful Vision spell.

It can be argued that you can use bardic knowledge to just happen to know the truéname

[YellowJohn]

It can be argued that you can use bardic knowledge to just happen to know the truéname

Aside from Wish/Miracle, this feels like the most workable option. The check DC would be obscene, but there are ways around that...

[ciopo]

It can be argued that you can use bardic knowledge to just happen to know the truéname

Hilariously from this point of view, the higher the CR the easier the check should be

[daremetoidareyo]

It takes a successful Knowledge check in the relevant subskill to discover a personal truename (although 5 ranks of Truespeak grant a synergy bonus to any such checks, and the Truename Research feat grants additional benefits). The DC uses a familiar formula: 15 + (2 × creature’s CR), or 15 + (2 × HD) for creatures such as PCs that don’t have Challenge Ratings. If you have the bardic knowledge class feature, you can substitute bardic knowledge checks for the Knowledge check.
Just one success is rarely enough to discover a truename. You need a number of successes equal to 1/2 the creature’s Hit Dice (minimum 1).
Each Knowledge check to discover a personal truename takes one week and costs 1,000 gp (for meditative incense, access to private libraries, and so on).

ToM p.197

Question: is a bardic knowledge check a knowledge check? If not, it’s free.

[Darg]

ToM p.197

Question: is a bardic knowledge check a knowledge check? If not, it’s free.

Substitution doesn't mean throw away everything else.

[Vaern]

Substitution doesn't mean throw away everything else.

There's a difference, though. The knowledge check represents investing resources into deep research to discover the relevant piece of information. Bardic knowledge represents obscure lore that the character already knows, having just happened to stumble upon it in some song or story at some point.

[Darg]

There's a difference, though. The knowledge check represents investing resources into deep research to discover the relevant piece of information. Bardic knowledge represents obscure lore that the character already knows, having just happened to stumble upon it in some song or story at some point.

Normal knowledge checks and bardic knowledge checks are vary similar in how they present information. As in they both represent previously acquired information. The research is represented by the checks per week and money spent not the checks themselves. As it is you must use a relevant knowledge subskill to attempt the knowledge check. The bardic knowledge check is simply a catchall alternative.

[Elenian]

Is there a way to force your enemy to take a level in truenamer or otherwise gain the 'known personal truename' class feature and then compel the information from them somehow? Alternatively, if you have that feature and... like, possess them using magic jar or something? (The latter almost certainly shouldn't give you knowledge of the enemy truename- you have their body, but you're still you and still have your own truename. However, you might still be able to affect the stolen body using your own truename, since it's temporarily yours...)

(These would be faster than research but not exactly combat-viable)

[daremetoidareyo]

Is there a way to force your enemy to take a level in truenamer or otherwise gain the 'known personal truename' class feature and then compel the information from them somehow? Alternatively, if you have that feature and... like, possess them using magic jar or something? (The latter almost certainly shouldn't give you knowledge of the enemy truename- you have their body, but you're still you and still have your own truename. However, you might still be able to affect the stolen body using your own truename, since it's temporarily yours...)

(These would be faster than research but not exactly combat-viable)
Charm person to make an enemy an ally on a void disciple 4 can give an “ally” the obscure personal true name feat. Then you can ask them