Dungeon Etiquette

[Yrnes]

One of my favorite games I've ran in the past focused in on a campaign world where adventuring was the next "gold rush," so to speak, and many NPCs had the same mindset as my players. Imagine the PCs' surprise, after sneaking their way into a dungeon and managing a few twists and turns, when what do they find in what they presume to be the next monsters encounter? Another adventuring party.

This made for quite an interesting encounter, since the PCs (averaging neutral good) met an NPC group (also good) laying claim to what they assumed was their treasure. This sparked lively roleplaying debates and discussions from claims of "we were here first," to "we'll duel you for it," considerations of joining forces (quickly shot down by the two PCs interested in bigger chunks of EXP and gold) to what became renowned by our group as Official Dungeon Etiquette (which pretty much boiled down to "Finders keepers! Run into the next room with disregard for traps, kill whatevers in there, and take its stuff before the other guys do!")

Just wondering if you guys have ever forced these kinds of encounters, or, if you've played through one, and what your rules for Dungeon Etiquette were:smallcool:

Thanks
Yrnes

[Doresain]

well since im usually the evil guy in our group, my etiquette consists of "corpses have no need for gold"...this was used with anything(dead or soon to be) that has any sort of wealth on them worth taking

[Pelfaid]

I have never been in a situation like that but I will definitely consider doing that the next time i DM. Hmmmm now how to get that into my session tomorrow...

[Hazkali]

I haven't run one of these sorts of encounters, but I've wanted to ever since I saw The Mummy, where the protagonists are (slowly) racing the minor antagonists to the treasure. I think it would make a good plot for an adventure to have another group working on the same dungeon, especially if there's a chance that they will find pieces of puzzles and important keys before the PCs do.

[Triaxx]

I've tried that, in fact the PC's sparked it, since the Paladin couldn't keep his mouth shut about where the stuff came from. In his defense he was talking to the local magistrate, and keeping them out of prison.

The townsfolk decided to swarm the local dungeon and get rich quick, not knowing that the party had been asked by the mayor to clear it out. Long story short, the Party decided that the best solution was to have the bard take the Paladin and distract him, while the party beat the 'other party' senseless, and took all the treasure. A nice fight full of non-lethal blows. At least from our side.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Always fun when the players meet another party...it's the whole mirror image thing...their antithesis...very cool.

[Skjaldbakka]

I like to have PCs occasionally meet another group of adventurers. I roll up some random treasure for the adventurer's and the PCs take advantage of the opportunity to skip the middle man. They sell anything the other group is interested in for 75% market value, and they can buy things from the other group at the same rate.

Or they can try to roll them. I make sure that they can put up a hell of a good fight.

[DraPrime]

I once played through one. We had a big argument over who had rights to the dungeon, so I just pushed the other groups' wizard off a cliff and proceeded to fight the rest. It was a violent, yet efficient solution.

[Skjaldbakka]

I once played through one. We had a big argument over who had rights to the dungeon, so I just pushed the other groups' wizard off a cliff and proceeded to fight the rest. It was a violent, yet efficient solution.

So, the wizard didn't cast featherfall, then fly back up to kick your sorry behind?

RE: below

I do. It is much more efficient that having a contingency "when I fall more than 9 feet". Plus, featherfall is a way to activate a contingency that will not start arguments over whether or not thought based contingency triggers are 'fair'. "If I cast featherfall when not falling" is a veto-proof contingency, or as close to one as you can get.

That, and wizards w/o overland flight spells cast could use a prepared featherfall. Its only a 1st level spell.

[Moff Chumley]

Who prepares featherfall? :smallwink:

My players usually play evil, or at the most CN characters, so etiquite does not concern them much.

[DraPrime]

So, the wizard didn't cast featherfall, then fly back up to kick your sorry behind?

Apparently he didn't think of that before he hit the lava. Either that or poor planning on the DMs part.

[Doresain]

or, ya know, the wizard didnt expect to get pushed off of a cliff anytime soon...

[Skjaldbakka]

Do you ever expect to get pushed off a cliff today?

[Collin152]

Well, why do you think I prepare featherfall every tuesday, consarnit?

[Doresain]

Do you ever expect to get pushed off a cliff today?

i always expect to get pushed off a cliff...but it never happens...kinda like how i always expect the spanish inquisition

[Ralfarius]

Do you ever expect to get pushed off a cliff today?
If you have to ask, you'll never really understand...

[kjones]

like how i always expect the spanish inquisition

Well, I certainly wasn't expecting that...

[Draz74]

If you have to ask, you'll never really understand...

"Just because it's been established that I'm paranoid, doesn't mean everyone's not out to get me!"

[Jack Zander]

My sorcerers and bards always take featherfall since I don't have t prepare it and can fall however many times I want each day. Too bad my DMs never seem to put cliffs in their settings...

[random11]

I think the problem is more fundamental than that.
Picture a regular dungeon: You beat a monster, you get gold, you beat another monster, you get gold, you reach the last room, you beat a stronger monster, you get gold and an extra treasure.
This pattern is more or less the same for all dungeons, and it doesn't matter if it's a natural cave, a crypt, a house, wizard's tower or even the sewer system.

Now think about it, most dungeons aren't that hard to find, and not too hard to beat. So it's acceptable if a certain party will be the first to discover a dungeon here and there, but a group that is so lucky that it reaches a place first almost every freaking time?!

Think of the golden rule: If it's not hard to take it, it's already taken.


Now for some ways to solve this:

- Usually, it is relatively easy to get a quest (go to a dungeon) an the hard part is to pass through it.
A more realistic approach is to reverse it. If the adventurers want the crypt, they have to spend AT LEAST half of their effort finding a place. Except some random places that should be rare, if the party wants to find a crypt that still has treasure, they must put extra effort into it, effort that might be an adventure by itself.

- The fact that monsters "respawn" in dungeons can be excused (a pack of monsters found a nice comfy cave), but the fact that gold and treasures respawn is just silly.
So instead of the group finding gold, make them take stuff with equal value directly from the monsters. Griffins don't gather gold, but their feathers might be worth gold.
Sure, they will need a little effort to trade it into cash, and that will be fun by itself. Finally skills for trading can be used for more then buying a sword+1.

- If you want a gold rush campaign, consider that at least 9/10 times the effort of finding a place will result in finding a deserted dungeon that was already cleaned.
I also think that this kind of campaign is best played in new found lands (new continent, new world, sealed area that just opened...)

[Fuzzy_Juan]

I think the problem is more fundamental than that.
Picture a regular dungeon: You beat a monster, you get gold, you beat another monster, you get gold, you reach the last room, you beat a stronger monster, you get gold and an extra treasure.
This pattern is more or less the same for all dungeons, and it doesn't matter if it's a natural cave, a crypt, a house, wizard's tower or even the sewer system.

Now think about it, most dungeons aren't that hard to find, and not too hard to beat. So it's acceptable if a certain party will be the first to discover a dungeon here and there, but a group that is so lucky that it reaches a place first almost every freaking time?!

Think of the golden rule: If it's not hard to take it, it's already taken.


Now for some ways to solve this:

- Usually, it is relatively easy to get a quest (go to a dungeon) an the hard part is to pass through it.
A more realistic approach is to reverse it. If the adventurers want the crypt, they have to spend AT LEAST half of their effort finding a place. Except some random places that should be rare, if the party wants to find a crypt that still has treasure, they must put extra effort into it, effort that might be an adventure by itself.

- The fact that monsters "respawn" in dungeons can be excused (a pack of monsters found a nice comfy cave), but the fact that gold and treasures respawn is just silly.
So instead of the group finding gold, make them take stuff with equal value directly from the monsters. Griffins don't gather gold, but their feathers might be worth gold.
Sure, they will need a little effort to trade it into cash, and that will be fun by itself. Finally skills for trading can be used for more then buying a sword+1.

- If you want a gold rush campaign, consider that at least 9/10 times the effort of finding a place will result in finding a deserted dungeon that was already cleaned.
I also think that this kind of campaign is best played in new found lands (new continent, new world, sealed area that just opened...)

I would say that a 'gold-rush' style campaign would also include an untold number of bandits and claim jumpers, more 'sherrifs' then you can shake a stick at, and swindlers galore.

People out to rob all the well stocked fools looking for 'adventure' stocked with supplies and armor, weapons, fine tools, spellbooks, scolls, horses, potions...how else do you think some of the towns around stay stocked...:smallbiggrin:

people who follow you to a dungeon to compete for the goods...people who stick around until you are done and jump you when you are finished and weak...

lots of people 'deputized' who try their best to stop bandits waylaying all the adventurers (that is bad for business)...though...this invariably leads to plenty of 'evil' deputies and 'regulators' who ride around being bandits of bandits...cause they can...(lawful evil types)...they work 'law' as long as they can keep what they confiscate from the bandits as reward. Just don't ask them for 'help'..they'll let you get killed just so they can take the loot from the guys who looted you...it is justice after all, they can't arrest them if they haven't robbed anyone :smalltongue:

Temples and taverns hungery for money, wizard ready to offer services for people willing to pay...men at arms hired to guard these places, but without any real rule of law...just who has the biggest nuts.

Real frontier feel.

Those are fun...

[random11]

I would say that a 'gold-rush' style campaign would also include an untold number of bandits and claim jumpers, more 'sherrifs' then you can shake a stick at, and swindlers galore.

People out to rob all the well stocked fools looking for 'adventure' stocked with supplies and armor, weapons, fine tools, spellbooks, scolls, horses, potions...how else do you think some of the towns around stay stocked...:smallbiggrin:

people who follow you to a dungeon to compete for the goods...people who stick around until you are done and jump you when you are finished and weak...


Trying to ambush a miner is one thing.
Trying to ambush a man whose only purpose in life is to beat the crap out of monsters is quite another...

Also, since most attempts to "strike gold" should fail, it is more likely that a band won't follow a specific party, but instead ambush random passengers along main roads.

[Quietus]

- The fact that monsters "respawn" in dungeons can be excused (a pack of monsters found a nice comfy cave), but the fact that gold and treasures respawn is just silly.
So instead of the group finding gold, make them take stuff with equal value directly from the monsters. Griffins don't gather gold, but their feathers might be worth gold.
Sure, they will need a little effort to trade it into cash, and that will be fun by itself. Finally skills for trading can be used for more then buying a sword+1.

I actually use this in a lot of my games. They tend to be treasure-light; I have a group of players hitting level 4 who've just found their first magical weapons. One has a magical armor. And some mundane gear. With the exception of the ranger, not one of them even has WBL for level 3... but I've thrown a lot of things at them that could have been "harvested". They ARE carrying around some half-dragon monstrous spider eggs, two of them I think, which is fantastic. But I don't think they ever removed the armored plating from the Large sized half-black-dragon monstrous spider they fought before finding said eggs. If they had, it could have been worked into some nice armor; Hell, one of the players has ranks in Craft (Armorsmithing)! Ah well.

[shadow_archmagi]

I can just imagine a character with everything he owns made from monsters...

Spider-armor, barheast fang arrowheads, a gryphon feather pillow...

[Quietus]

I can just imagine a character with everything he owns made from monsters...

Spider-armor, barheast fang arrowheads, a gryphon feather pillow...

Kobold jerky....

[shadow_archmagi]

Something-skull helmet of course.

Bow made from a treant.

[DraPrime]

Trying to ambush a miner is one thing.
Trying to ambush a man whose only purpose in life is to beat the crap out of monsters is quite another...

That is going into my sig.

[Snadgeros]

Well, I certainly wasn't expecting that...

NO ONE expects the Spanish Inquisition!

On topic: Seems to me the best way to do this would be to make your party "the chosen ones" or more accurately, "the ones who actually know what they're doing." Sure, any old adventuring party can leap into any old dungeon and take all the loot they can find, but who's to say that's all there is? Perhaps at the end of the dungeon there's a medallion stuck in the wall, that if you speak the right words to, will open up a new section of the dungeon with new monsters and loot. Maybe you can't even get into the dungeon without knowing some kind of password or ritual. There could even be some sort of unbeatable monster guarding the treasure horde, but to defeat it, you have to use some unorthodox means that only your party knows about. If this is indeed a gold rush, adventurers are going to be doing minimal research about where they're going. Have your party get information from some helpful local source like a wizard who helped build it or the former minion of the BBEG.

[herrhauptmann]

Have a similar idea...
Party has say 4 things they have been told/asked/paid to find. There's another party going to get the same 4 things.
First party gets 3 of them if they're lucky, 2 if they're slow. And enemy party gets the others.
Keep this up every once in a while for several leels, and I can guarantee the whole etiquette question will go right out the window when they finally meet. Regardless of alignment.

[Triaxx]

Of course, a truly enterprising party might set up a rest stop just outside the dungeon, and charge an entrance fee to anyone who wants to take it on. That always upsets the paladins for some reason.