I never forget a face...

[Riftwolf]

Just an odd thought I had,

Blackwing is currently just hanging out in the chasm where Xykon et al have been dealing with the Quinton. Xykon, as was established in SoD, is more observant than he appears (because there's a difference between noticing something and caring about it).
What if Xykon remembers Blackwing, the bird who almost destroyed his phylactery, and just isn't letting on that he's noticed them yet?

[ZhonLord]

I would agree it's a possibility, however good Spot and Listen checks don't come naturally in 3.5. xykon would have to spend the skill points, and I'm fairly certain he's invested them elsewhere.

He does have a +8 racial bonus to listen checks, but even with that he took a while to find the invisible Varsuvius - who actually snuck part him once and almost got away on the return sneak. This implies that xykon is basically depending on that lich bonus, not using skill points for it.

Therefore the only way he'd reasonably notice Blackwing is either on a nat 20 or if one of the others point him out to the lich.

[Metastachydium]

Well, Xykon does have an effective +10 to Spot (+8 racial, +1 WIS from template, +1 WIS from age) before adjustments for base stats and skill ranks. Spot, however, is not a class skill for sorcerers.

Opposite him, we have Blackwing. He has an effective +10 to Hide (+8 size, +2 DEX) before adjustments for base stats and skill ranks by virtue of being a raven (Hide is not a raven skill); Xykon is arguably distracted (he's having two conversations) – this gives Blackwing another 5 for a +15 and that's not counting the Giant only knows (and likely not even the Giant, in fact) how many +1s for distance. If we calculate with a distance of 100' (a very generous estimate) that's already a +25.

Accordingly, Xykon would need to have 27+ levels and his cross-class Spot maxed out to have the same modifier to Spot that a hypothetical Blackwing perching 100' from him has for Hide, and that calculation is very kind to Xykon in its assumptions. Consequently, I doubt that he could spot the birdy before the birdy took flight. After that, well Blackwing still has distance and distraction on his side, which, using the same (improbable) 100' figure for the former still leaves Blackwing with a +15. I like his chances of remaining unnoticed.

Edit: As for Listen, Xykon has the same numbers, whereas Blackwing also gets the same bonuses for distance and distraction, but he can also continue to use Move Silently even after taking to wing, which is another +2 from DEX before base stats and skill ranks. This configuration favours our birdy even more than the previous one.

[Malfarian]

Just an odd thought I had,

Blackwing is currently just hanging out in the chasm where Xykon et al have been dealing with the Quinton. Xykon, as was established in SoD, is more observant than he appears (because there's a difference between noticing something and caring about it).
What if Xykon remembers Blackwing, the bird who almost destroyed his phylactery, and just isn't letting on that he's noticed them yet?

I really don't see him as having the self-control for that, but I could be wrong.

[Fyraltari]

I really don't see him as having the self-control for that, but I could be wrong.

If you haven't read SoD, you should it's great. And the ending shows that Xykon definitely knows to keep his cards close to his chest.

[InvisibleBison]

It doesn't really matter how good Xykon's Spot is, because Blackwing isn't hiding (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1267.html). You don't need to make Spot checks to see someone who's out in the open.

[brian 333]

The question here is, are there other crows at the North Pole?

Crows are common in the northern hemisphere, and I defy you to distinguish one from another. However, if there is only one, and you have a grudge against a particular one, I defy you to explain how that one is maybe, probably, not the one you have a grudge against.

I find it far more unlikely that he will assume a random, singular crow is not the one he hates.

[Fyraltari]

The question here is, are there other crows at the North Pole?

Crows are common in the northern hemisphere, and I defy you to distinguish one from another. However, if there is only one, and you have a grudge against a particular one, I defy you to explain how that one is maybe, probably, not the one you have a grudge against.

I find it far more unlikely that he will assume a random, singular crow is not the one he hates.

There's a crow around there!? (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1159.html)

[Mechalich]

The Common Raven - let's assume that's what Blackwing is an not something more complicated - has an extensive range (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_raven#/media/File:CorvusCoraxIUCN.svg) including some very northerly territories. Additionally, because ravens are not above opportunistic scavenging a dungeon complex likely to source a significant quantity of corpses ought to draw a fairly extensive population in to the area. So Blackwing probably isn't the only raven in the general vicinity, and while I wouldn't put it past Xykon to abuse Ray of Frost by blasting every small animal he came across, he probably got bored of doing that long before the Order arrived.

[Metastachydium]

It doesn't really matter how good Xykon's Spot is, because Blackwing isn't hiding (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1267.html). You don't need to make Spot checks to see someone who's out in the open.

Well, for as long as he's perching, he might be. We don't know. And afterwards, distance and distraction penalties still apply.

[WanderingMist]

I find it far more unlikely that he will assume a random, singular crow is not the one he hates.

I wouldn't put it past him to not just kill every similar-looking bird out of spite.

[brian 333]

There's a crow around there!? (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1159.html)

I defy you to see any all-black corvid at a distance and tell me which breed it is. Sure, sitting side by side, a raven is bigger and huskier than a crow. And ravens are more likely to be working on a NY Times crossword puzzle than a crow. And, yes, a crow is more likely to be smoking a cigar while wearing a straw hat in a Disney film. And, sure, if you are a dwarf you can probably talk to a raven. And let's not get started on magpies.

Wait, I had a point...

[InvisibleBison]

Well, for as long as he's perching, he might be. We don't know.

Actually, we do know. "You need cover or concealment" (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm) in order to hide, and Blackwing quite clearly has neither.


And afterwards, distance and distraction penalties still apply.

No, they don't. The Spot skill rules (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm) clearly outline all the situations where you need to make a Spot check, and noticing someone in the open is not one of them.

[Fyraltari]

I defy you to see any all-black corvid at a distance and tell me which breed it is.

Well, Blackwing isn't actually all-black, is he, now? So I am going to say yellow-billed chough (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_chough).

Edit: Or red-billed, depending on which coulour you'd say his beak's shade is closest to.

[Metastachydium]

Actually, we do know. "You need cover or concealment" (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm) in order to hide, and Blackwing quite clearly ha

His position relative to Team Evil might provide a degree of cover. It's all about angles.


No, they don't. The Spot skill rules (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm) clearly outline all the situations where you need to make a Spot check, and noticing someone in the open is not one of them.

Funny you would say that.



Typically, your Spot check is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen. Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it.

(…)

Spot checks may be called for to determine the distance at which an encounter begins. A penalty applies on such checks, depending on the distance between the two individuals or groups, and an additional penalty may apply if the character making the Spot check is distracted (not concentrating on being observant).


All emphases mine. I stand by my analysis.


Well, Blackwing isn't actually all-black, is he, now? So I am going to say yellow-billed chough (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_chough).

Edit: Or red-billed, depending on which coulour you'd say his beak's shade is closest to.

Right? (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=16953501&postcount=40) RIGHT? (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24820780&postcount=141)

[Peelee]

Funny you would say that.
...


I just want you to know that I appreciate pithy quote titles.

[Metastachydium]

pithy

And I just want you to know that I really appreciate that word choice. Well played, Sir, well played!

[Peelee]

And I just want you to know that I really appreciate that word choice. Well played, Sir, well played!

You've never claimed to not be a citrus variety!

[Metastachydium]

You've never claimed to not be a citrus variety!

[Pedantic Evil grin.] You're thinking mesocarp; most planties have the pith in their stems.

[InvisibleBison]

His position relative to Team Evil might provide a degree of cover. It's all about angles.

I seriously doubt that. He's watching Team Evil; any cover would obstruct his line of sight. Moreover, when we see a larger view (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1221.html) of Blackwing perching on an outcrop there's clearly no cover available. While that's not the same outcrop he's on in 1267, I think it's reasonable to say that if he didn't have any cover then he wouldn't have any now either.



Funny you would say that.

The first case you've highlighted is clearly not applicable to the current situation. Blackwing is not difficult to see; he's a much darker color than any of the surrounding terrain and in the final panel of 1267 he's moving after Team Evil.

The second case is more questionable, I'll admit. It's clear that no encounter between Xykon and Blackwing has begun. However, does that mean that Xykon hasn't made a Spot check to determine the distance at which such an encounter could begin and simply rolled really badly? It's possible, I suppose, but that requires us to assume that Xykon would necessarily attack any bird he happened to notice. Again, that's not impossible, especially since Xykon knows there's some sort of opposition in the area. I still think it's not very likely, though, and so am willing to say that Xykon has not rolled any Spot checks to notice Blackwing.

[Peelee]

[Pedantic Evil grin.] You're thinking mesocarp; most planties have the pith in their stems.

That doesn't technically make my statement wrong, and I have a great fondness for citrus planties.

Also tomato planties. My wife thinks I'm odd but tomato leaves have just the best smell.

[Metastachydium]

I seriously doubt that. He's watching Team Evil; any cover would obstruct his line of sight. Moreover, when we see a larger view (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1221.html) of Blackwing perching on an outcrop there's clearly no cover available. While that's not the same outcrop he's on in 1267, I think it's reasonable to say that if he didn't have any cover then he wouldn't have any now either.

That's, um, literally not how cover works. Cover's about line of effect. If there is line of effect, but not line of sight, that's total concealment; if there's neither, that's a subset of total cover. One does not need total cover to Hide, however. "A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover" (http://dndsrd.net/combatModifiers.html#cover) and we don't know there isn't a broadly analogous obstacle present for Blackwing to benefit from. The rock face to his left in the strip you linked could conceiveably serve as such against Team Evil as they approach from the left, and there may easily be another outcrop/terrace further down which could do the same against Team Evil as it passes below.



The first case you've highlighted is clearly not applicable to the current situation. Blackwing is not difficult to see; he's a much darker color than any of the surrounding terrain and in the final panel of 1267 he's moving after Team Evil.

He's Tiny, far away and way above Xykon. RAW never states it has to be about camouflage colours or whatnot.


The second case is more questionable, I'll admit. It's clear that no encounter between Xykon and Blackwing has begun. However, does that mean that Xykon hasn't made a Spot check to determine the distance at which such an encounter could begin and simply rolled really badly? It's possible, I suppose, but that requires us to assume that Xykon would necessarily attack any bird he happened to notice. Again, that's not impossible, especially since Xykon knows there's some sort of opposition in the area. I still think it's not very likely, though, and so am willing to say that Xykon has not rolled any Spot checks to notice Blackwing.

Yeah, that's certainly another possibility.


That doesn't technically make my statement wrong, and I have a great fondness for citrus planties.

Also tomato planties. My wife thinks I'm odd but tomato leaves have just the best smell.

[Happy little flower vocalizations.] Anyhow, your wife is correct insofar as you're not supposed to like that smell; if memory serves it's there to deter potential predators, and changes in its intensity if the leaf is wounded are chemical cries of alarm which should be scary. I find it really pleasant as well, never the less.

[Fyraltari]

[Pedantic Evil grin.] You're thinking mesocarp; most planties have the pith in their stems.

Do the others think of the rest as pithiful?

[Metastachydium]

Do the others think of the rest as pithiful?

That would be a reasonable reaction, yes. For my part, I'd love to pithy them, but I'm not sure we have the technology for that.

[Riftwolf]

That would be a reasonable reaction, yes. For my part, I'd love to pithy them, but I'm not sure we have the technology for that.

Now you're just taking the pith.

The way I thought Xykon recognising Blackwing is he'd wait till Redcloak was out of sight before using an unspecified bird-catching spell to snag Blackwing. If Redcloak sees him, he could easily bluff that he was torturing a bird for fun; Redcloak didn't see Blackwing at the tower so it'd just appear as Xykon lacking self-control.

[WanderingMist]

Well, Blackwing isn't actually all-black, is he, now? So I am going to say yellow-billed chough (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_chough).

Edit: Or red-billed, depending on which coulour you'd say his beak's shade is closest to.

Didn't V explicitly identify Blackwing as a raven when Blackwing debuted? He's probably just a common raven with a slight color mutation in the beak. And since Blackwing refuses to acknowledge he could be a crow, he must be a raven. Not that there's any actual genealogical reason to distinguish between crows and ravens, as the normal distinction between the two is size-based.

[Peelee]

Didn't V explicitly identify Blackwing as a raven when Blackwing debuted? He's probably just a common raven

Excuse me, Blackwing is an exceptional raven!

[brian 333]

Excuse me, Blackwing is an exceptional raven!

Perhaps he uses beak and leg polish to attract ravens with a particular idea of attractiveness. Ravens do have excellent color vision.

[Precure]

He's probably a crow that pretends to be a raven, like how some rats pretends to be mice.

[JonahFalcon]

Do you honestly think Xykon cares? He views the Order as B class heroes, and he has no idea there are paladins around, especially not O-Chul. He still can't remember Roy.


He's probably a crow that pretends to be a raven, like how some rats pretends to be mice.

They're all corvids.

[Brackenlord]

...

He's probably a crow that pretends to be a raven, like how some rats pretends to be mice.

They're all corvids.

And here I thought that rats and mice were rodents. Live and learn.

[JonahFalcon]

And here I thought that rats and mice were rodents. Live and learn.
Corvids are a much tighter clade than rodents.

Bats, rabbits, hamsters, chinchillas and beavers are all rodents, too.

[brian 333]

Corvids are a much tighter clade than rodents.

Bats, rabbits, hamsters, chinchillas and beavers are all rodents, too.

When did bats join rodentia? And did they tell chiroptera when they left?

Ooooh!

"I'm Batman!"
"Dude, you got whiskers!"
"Batman!"
"And buck teeth."
"Bat..."
"Hang it up, man, you're a rat with a cape and anger issues."

[Crimsonmantle]

Rabbits are not rodents either. Though unlike bats, who are less rodentlike than any oots poster except Meta, they are at least from the sister clade.

[wilphe]

Excuse me, Blackwing is an exceptional raven!

I believe he identifies as:

'A Super Stealth Flying Dinosaur'

[Metastachydium]

Perhaps he uses beak and leg polish to attract ravens with a particular idea of attractiveness. Ravens do have excellent color vision.

That's true for most birdies, in fact. Tetrachromacy for the win!


They're all corvids.


And here I thought that rats and mice were rodents. Live and learn.


Corvids are a much tighter clade than rodents.

Yup. Rodentia is an order or superorder; Corvidae, in the meantime is a family, and most things called crow or raven are from the same genus.


Bats, rabbits, hamsters, chinchillas and beavers are all rodents, too.


When did bats join rodentia? And did they tell chiroptera when they left?

In On the Origin of the PCs. Amusingly enough, V of all people makes the same mistake of lumping them in with rodents in the Iron Mage sequence.


"I'm Batman!"
"Dude, you got whiskers!"
"Batman!"
"And buck teeth."
"Bat..."
"Hang it up, man, you're a rat with a cape and anger issues."

Well played, Brian, well played!


Rabbits are not rodents either. Though unlike bats, who are less rodentlike than any oots poster except Meta,

[Waves over from the Green Kingdom.]


they are at least from the sister clade.

Yup. Heck, Lagomorpha was included in Rodentia for quite some time before they split off.


I believe he identifies as:

'A Super Stealth Flying Dinosaur'

A super-advanced flying stealth dinosaur, actually!

[Tzardok]

In On the Origin of the PCs. Amusingly enough, V of all people makes the same mistake of lumping them in with rodents in the Iron Mage sequence.

It's pretty common for people to disregard bats as just mice, even when they know better. Heck, Fledermaus, the German word for bat, translates roughly as "flapping mouse".

[Fyraltari]

It's pretty common for people to disregard bats as just mice, even when they know better. Heck, Fledermaus, the German word for bat, translates roughly as "flapping mouse".

And the French is chauve-souris, "bald mouse". It comes from a translation error with the Latin word, that I don't remember but means "owl-mouse".

[brian 333]

In On the Origin of the PCs. Amusingly enough, V of all people makes the same mistake of lumping them in with rodents in the Iron Mage sequence.

In OotSverse bats did not evolve, so it is understandable that the taxonomers made the same mistake ours made in classifying animals back in the old days. Because it is obviously the taxonomists at fault and not V.

Come to think of it, there's not a lot of evidence that bats evolved in the real world, either.

[Metastachydium]

Come to think of it, there's not a lot of evidence that bats evolved in the real world, either.
[Frantically dials the Our Reptilian Overlords hotline to report on the data leak.] Now, now, let's, uh, let's not get, uh, carried away like that!


It's pretty common for people to disregard bats as just mice, even when they know better. Heck, Fledermaus, the German word for bat, translates roughly as "flapping mouse".

And the French is chauve-souris, "bald mouse". It comes from a translation error with the Latin word, that I don't remember but means "owl-mouse".

It would appear that this is quite a common phenomenon in European languages, v. Portuguese morcego, Spanish murciélago, Catalan muricec (ultimately all deriving from a phrase meaning 'blind mouse'); (archaic and dialectal) English flittermouse, Danish flagermus, Norwegian flaggermus, Swedish fladdermus, Serbo-Croatian šišmiš (same as Fledermaus); Dutch vleermuis ('winged mouse'); Russian летучая мышь (~lyetuchaya mysh, I think), Faroese flogmús ('flying mouse'); Hungarian bőregér ('leather mouse') &c.

[Throknor]

Crazy corollary - what if Redcloak notices Blackwing and, knowing Thor is watching him, comes to the "logical" conclusion that he's an emissary of Odin?

While either of them deciding to chase Blackwing would make a semblance of sense it would either result in killing off a fan (and author) favorite with potentially little service to the plot or with a chase scene where Blackwing gets away. So I'd think even if they notice Blackwing he'd get away quickly somehow or it would be immediately before a battle and work as a planned distraction somehow.

[Zarhan]

Crazy corollary - what if Redcloak notices Blackwing and, knowing Thor is watching him, comes to the "logical" conclusion that he's an emissary of Odin?

Not likely, for the simple reason that Odin's ravens have not really been introduced. Even here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1145.html) they are not present, while story-wise it would have been a perfect opportunity to bring them up. Have they even appeared in-panel apart from this early strip (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0137.html)?

Essentially, Chekhov's Raven would need to be something that's at least acknowledged to exist before Team Evil starts shooting disintegrate at random birds...

[Throknor]

Not likely, for the simple reason that Odin's ravens have not really been introduced. Even here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1145.html) they are not present, while story-wise it would have been a perfect opportunity to bring them up. Have they even appeared in-panel apart from this early strip (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0137.html)?

Essentially, Chekhov's Raven would need to be something that's at least acknowledged to exist before Team Evil starts shooting disintegrate at random birds...

Counterpoint: Redcloak is a book-nerd and (unlike Elan or Tarquin) wouldn't care if they'd been introduced before or not. If a "wizard class feature" knows Odin relates to ravens (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1097.html) then surely Redcloak's religion-lore-check would cover it. Plus, that covers Chekov's make-sure-the-audience-isn't-completely-surprised fetish.

[Fyraltari]

Counterpoint: Redcloak is a book-nerd and (unlike Elan or Tarquin) wouldn't care if they'd been introduced before or not. If a "wizard class feature" knows Odin relates to ravens (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1097.html) then surely Redcloak's religion-lore-check would cover it. Plus, that covers Chekov's make-sure-the-audience-isn't-completely-surprised fetish.

Blackwing is a raven, though, he knows stuff about ravens. He himself says in this link he doesn't know much about gods. Outside of worship of the Dark One and the mecanics of divine magic, I don't expect Redcloak to know much about gods, their names and job description, probably, but attributes would be a coin toss. Malack is just as much of a nerd as Redcloak, and much older and yet, he only had passing familiarity with Hel (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html).

[Metastachydium]

Blackwing is a raven, though, he knows stuff about ravens. He himself says in this link he doesn't know much about gods. Outside of worship of the Dark One and the mecanics of divine magic, I don't expect Redcloak to know much about gods, their names and job description, probably, but attributes would be a coin toss.

Well, he called the coin and got the good side up, then. P. 35 of SoD, featuring a crayon splash panel that is author-confirmed to be a narrative as told by Redcloak has Odin on it and with him (within his yellow aura, in actual fact) two ravens choughs not unlike Blackwing.

[Fyraltari]

Well, he called the coin and got the good side up, then. P. 35 of SoD, featuring a crayon splash panel that is author-confirmed to be a narrative as told by Redcloak has Odin on it and with him (within his yellow aura, in actual fact) two ravens choughs not unlike Blackwing.

Redcloak isn't the one drawing the comic. This crayons drawing also feature a red-headed Thor for one panel, something Redcloak definitely doesn't know about.

[Metastachydium]

Redcloak isn't the one drawing the comic. This crayons drawing also feature a red-headed Thor for one panel, something Redcloak definitely doesn't know about.

That one might just be a mistake (an let me pull a dancrilis on you: Big Purple interacted the most with Loki,; Thor and Loki are brothers; and therefore, it is possible the Dark One himself misremembered the hair colour for a second there when implanting stuff in the Mantle). Anyhow, the Crayons of Time (as told by Shojo) also has the choughs. I'm ready to take this as good evidence that the "raven" thing is reasonably common knowledge. (In fact, I find the idea that all ravens, including class features, know all there is about Odin's ravens simply on account of being ravens a more dubious conjecture.)

[hamishspence]

This crayons drawing also feature a red-headed Thor for one panel, something Redcloak definitely doesn't know about.

I always assumed the guy from the SoD crayons, in brown-and-white instead of steel and blue, with much smaller helmet horns, and no white-fur-trimmed gloves and boots, wasn't Thor at all, but another member of the pantheon.

[Fyraltari]

I always assumed the guy from the SoD crayons, in brown-and-white instead of steel and blue, with much smaller helmet horns, and no white-fur-trimmed gloves and boots, wasn't Thor at all, but another member of the pantheon.

Same hairstyle, very similar clothing, never seen since and Thor stated he used to be a ginger.

Let's list the male gods in the pantheon:


Thor
Odin (we know that's not him)
Loki (we know that's not him)
Heimdall (we know that's not him)
Thrym (we know that's not him)
Fernrir (we know that's not him)
Surtur (we know that's not him)
Dvalin (we know that's not him (he's from this world))
Tyr, god of war
Balder, god of beauty
Freyr, god of prosperity
Njord, god of the sea
Mani, god of the Moon
Hoder (does not look blind (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0982.html))
Vafthrundir, god of secrets
Bragi, god of poetry
Hermod god of messengers


That leaves us with 8 possible candidates. Looking at their portfolio, I would say the better fit would be Tyr, god of war. But I'm pretty sure that's this guy (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1143.html).

[hamishspence]

Same hairstyle, very similar clothing,
The boots look different (brown, no fur trim, visible toecaps), the cape is different (white, short, very jaggedy edge), and the guy doesn't wear gloves like Crayon Thor does. The outfits are really not all that similar.

[Metastachydium]

I always assumed the guy from the SoD crayons, in brown-and-white instead of steel and blue, with much smaller helmet horns, and no white-fur-trimmed gloves and boots, wasn't Thor at all, but another member of the pantheon.

That's a very good point, actually (that's what I get for not checking what the Frenchman was referring to).


I would say the better fit would be Tyr, god of war. But I'm pretty sure that's this guy (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1143.html).

Abd I'm absolutely certain that is correct.


The boots look different (brown, no fur trim, visible toecaps), the cape is different (white, short, very jaggedy edge), and the guy doesn't wear gloves like Crayon Thor does. The outfits are really not all that similar.

I concur. Further, all the gods are portrayed in an incredibly consistent manner across all appearances. We see the familiar design of Thor a measly four pages later.

[Fyraltari]

The boots look different (brown, no fur trim, visible toecaps), the cape is different (white, short, very jaggedy edge), and the guy doesn't wear gloves like Crayon Thor does. The outfits are really not all that similar.

It's a guy wearing armor with pauldrons, a horned helmet, armoured boots and a cape. The difference in clothing style with current-day Thor is minimal next to the difference between current-day Thor and any other Northern god shown.

[Metastachydium]

It's a guy wearing armor with pauldrons, a horned helmet, armoured boots and a cape. The difference in clothing style with current-day Thor is minimal next to the difference between current-day Thor and any other Northern god shown.

And this guy is wearing armour with pauldrons, a horned helmet, armoured boots, a belt and gloves (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html). Sure, he has no cape or beard, but that's pretty damn similar. He's probably also just a mislabeled version of Thor.

Edit: Not that Thor was ever shown wearing armoured boots (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html) before late into UD, and even at that point, they have a distinctively different design (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1136.html).

[Fyraltari]

I concur. Further, all the gods are portrayed in an incredibly consistent manner across all appearances. We see the familiar design of Thor a measly four pages later.
Except Thor told us himself his physical appearance changed and the "measly" four pages hide a billion-of-years timeskip.

And this guy is wearing armour with pauldrons, a horned helmet, armoured boots, a belt and gloves (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html). Sure, he has no cape or beard, but that's pretty damn similar. He's probably also just a mislabeled version of Thor.
You forget that he also has a visor and what I think is supposed to be a chainmail hood and a shield.

That's many more difference than what looks like a palette-swap of Thor.

Like why would two gods look so much alike and risk being confused with each other when they sustain themselves on belief?

[hamishspence]

Except Thor told us himself his physical appearance changed and the "measly" four pages hide a billion-of-years timeskip.

Thor was shown as blond and dressed in grey rather than brown, in crayon strips set before the billions-year timeskip.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html

"He went through a short phase of gingerness and brown outfit instead of blond and grey outfit, before reverting to the old one" seems to me just unnecessarily convoluted.



Much simpler IMO, to go with "Redbeard Northern God is one of the following":

Balder, god of beauty
Freyr, god of prosperity
Njord, god of the sea
Mani, god of the Moon
Vafthrundir, god of secrets
Bragi, god of poetry
Hermod god of messengers

[Peelee]

never seen since

Vafthrundir, god of secrets


Hmmmmmmmmmmm.............

[hamishspence]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.............

His cleric is the only one of those on the above list, at the Moot, who's dressed in armor rather than robes or "regular clothing".

Perhaps the purple is just that cleric's thing rather than the god's theme colour. Not every cleric wears a perfect match to their god's clothing, after all.

[Fyraltari]

Thor was shown as blond and dressed in grey rather than brown, in crayon strips set before the billions-year timeskip.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html

"He went through a short phase of gingerness and brown outfit instead of blond and grey outfit, before reverting to the old one" seems to me just unnecessarily convoluted.


Hm, that's a good point.

[Metastachydium]

Except Thor told us himself his physical appearance changed and the "measly" four pages hide a billion-of-years timeskip.

You forget that he also has a visor and what I think is supposed to be a chainmail hood and a shield.

That's many more difference than what looks like a palette-swap of Thor.

Yes, and like I said, Mystery Guy has no belt, armoured boots instead of fur-lined boots, smaller and differently curved horns, a furlike thing instead of a neat and well-kept cloak… I wouldn't call that a palette swap, exactly, and the absurd example with Heimdall was there to highlight that.


Like why would two gods look so much alike and risk being confused with each other when they sustain themselves on belief?

Go ask Dragon and Snake. (Also, colours are kind of a big deal with gods.)

[SlashDash]

It doesn't really matter how good Xykon's Spot is, because Blackwing isn't hiding (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1267.html). You don't need to make Spot checks to see someone who's out in the open.

I beg to differ (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html)