What could a monk do with a weapon but not an unarmed strike?

[Greywander]

I wasn't sure if this should be in the Homebrew subforum, but I'm looking more for conceptual themes than specific mechanics. I've been mulling over some monk tweaks and one of the things I want is to add some tactical distinction between attacks with a weapon and unarmed strikes. It's pretty obvious that I could add things like grapples and shoves to unarmed strikes, but I'm struggling to come up with things a monk would be able to do with a weapon that couldn't also be done unarmed. I just need one good trope or idea I can riff off of and I can figure out the mechanics from there.

So what are some things you'd expect a monk to be able to do using a weapon that they wouldn't be able to do unarmed? Are there perhaps any good anime or Wuxia tropes I could draw on? Or maybe something a monk player has done at your table?

[Psyren]

Mechanically: The big thing weapons get that unarmed strikes don't are properties. The most notable of these is usually Reach, but others like Versatile can give the weapon a noticeable edge at low levels.

Conceptually: Really the sky is the limit here depending on your imagination and what your DM is willing to go with. Use your quarterstaff as a pole vault, or to tap the floor and walls ahead of you for traps. Tie your grappling hook to one of your arrows or bolts. Throw your dart down a hallway to make a distracting noise. And that's just the more mundane stuff, if you're leaning into wuxia you can do really crazy things like fight with brushes or fans, check out games like the Dynasty Warriors or Soul Calibur series.

[JonBeowulf]

Obvious answer is, "hit something further than 5' away".

Other than that, go nuts and see what is allowed. My personal fave was using a pair of daggers to keep me from falling off a wall I couldn't run up in one turn.

[Damon_Tor]

Damage types between physical damage types rarely matter, and in the most common example where they do (skeletons) bludgeoning is the best bet anyway.

I'll note though that some OBJECTS do have specific interactions with damage types. For example, nets and other objects made of rope require slashing damage specifically for breaking.

We have yet to see the D&DOne warrior playtest, but as it stands now (ie, using 5e rules for monk with D&DOne rules for weapons) light weapons are perfect on a monk: they can benefit from dual wielding without giving up their bonus action.

[Amechra]

Honestly? Not much. "My choice of weapon matters" is more of a Fighter thing. The Monk fantasy has more to do with Musashi showing up to a duel with a wooden sword and winning.

The point of weapons in wuxia is basically the same as the weird gimmicks that Bond villains have (heck, Oddjob is basically ripped straight from wuxia as it is) or brand fetishism in cyberpunk. When someone shows up with a hat with blades in the rim or brags about their Golden Mask style, the point is that you go "wow, this guy knows his stuff, and is worth taking seriously".

If anything, I think it'd be more appropriate if Monks basically ignored the non-magical properties of weapons.

[CTurbo]

Magic weapons

Monks don't have any natural way of increasing attack and damage options for their unarmed strikes once Dex hits 20 the same way that a +1, +2, or +3 weapon can.

I had a Monk that got a basic +2 Spear at like level 6 or 7 and it felt like a huge power increase. I went from a +8 to hit and 1d8+5 damage to a +10 to hit and a 1d8+7 damage per attack. My unarmed attacks were still dealing 1d6+5 with a +8 to hit.

That's not even taking account of other more fun magic weapons that do other things.

Weapons also offer piercing and slashing damage options that at least most unarmed strikes can't replicate. I know some races do.

[Pex]

Attack a creature you wouldn't want to touch such as an ooze or fire elemental.

[Greywander]

Mechanically: The big thing weapons get that unarmed strikes don't are properties. The most notable of these is usually Reach, but others like Versatile can give the weapon a noticeable edge at low levels.
That's... actually a pretty good point. Maybe weapons don't need anything to be special, especially if magic weapons are in play. Give unarmed strikes a little something extra, and let weapon properties speak for themselves.

Magic weapons are a bit of a wild card when it comes to monk balance. As your Martial Arts die rises, it gradually erases the distinction between weapons and unarmed strikes, but that's really only applicable to non-magic weapons. Once you get your hands on a magic weapon, it suddenly becomes a lot more important whether an attack is with a weapon or an unarmed strike.


Honestly? Not much. "My choice of weapon matters" is more of a Fighter thing. The Monk fantasy has more to do with Musashi showing up to a duel with a wooden sword and winning.
I did wonder if perhaps distinguishing between weapons and unarmed strikes would be a poor design choice for monks. The Western mindset sees weapons as tools, and you want the best one for the job. But the Eastern mindset sees weapons as extensions of the user, and as such is more concerned with the person wielding the weapon and not so much the weapon itself. Come to think of it, perhaps it's intentional that your Martial Arts die eventually erases any difference between armed and unarmed (at least in terms of damage) specifically because that aligns better with the Eastern perspective.

Thanks everyone, I'm now convinced that weapons don't really need any extra help. Maybe if the DM is stingy with magic items, but monks arguably already excel under those conditions more than other martial classes.

[Amechra]

perhaps it's intentional that your Martial Arts die eventually erases any difference between armed and unarmed (at least in terms of damage)

If anything, that "eventually" should be faster.

If we assume that you're starting at 16 Dex and 16 Wis and that you increase your stats ASAP, your AC is equivalent to:



Level Range
Armor Equivalent


1st - 3rd
Chain Mail


4th - 7th
Splint


8th - 11th
Plate


12th - 15th
+1 Plate


16th - 20th
+2 Plate



Meanwhile, you have to wait until 11th level (17th level if you're a Kensei) before you hit the "it doesn't really matter how well armed I am" threshold.

I'd personally do something like, say:


Monks use the higher of Dexterity or Strength for attacks with unarmed strikes or "monk weapons".
Monks all have the Unarmed Fighting Style.
Monks deal 1d8 damage with monk weapons.

[Hytheter]

I'd say if you're comparing to armour you should include shields in the calculation. 20AC is just plate and shield.

[Amechra]

I'd say if you're comparing to armour you should include shields in the calculation. 20AC is just plate and shield.

I don't think that that's a fair comparison, though, since Monks don't have to give up the use of one of their hands in order to hit an AC of 20.

[Hytheter]

They also don't have to give up the use of their hands to hold a weapon...

[elyktsorb]

Magic weapons

Monks don't have any natural way of increasing attack and damage options for their unarmed strikes once Dex hits 20 the same way that a +1, +2, or +3 weapon can.

I had a Monk that got a basic +2 Spear at like level 6 or 7 and it felt like a huge power increase. I went from a +8 to hit and 1d8+5 damage to a +10 to hit and a 1d8+7 damage per attack. My unarmed attacks were still dealing 1d6+5 with a +8 to hit.


There is one magic item I can think of that does increase unarmed damage, and I think there may be another item, i'd have to look a bit.

Eldritch Claw Tattoo gives a +1 to hit and damage on unarmed strikes, and once per day can increase your range with unarmed strikes to 30ft as well as deal an additional 1d6 force damage on a hit for 1 minute.

[Amechra]

They also don't have to give up the use of their hands to hold a weapon...

I see where you're going with this, and eh, I guess?

I'll be honest with you, the main reason I decided to go from Chain Mail → Plate and then gave the Plate magical bonuses is because that's the smoothest way to describe the progression without having to "downgrade" armor at any point. If I used "Plate + Shield" as my descriptor for AC 20, that'd mean one of a few things:


I'd have to go from Plate (AC 18) → Scale + Shield (AC 19), which feels awkward (because I'm downgrading the armor).
To avoid that, I'd have to go from Splint (AC 17) → Chain Mail + Shield (AC 18), which feels awkward for the same reason.
I can't replace Splint with heavy armor + a shield, since there is no heavy armor that gives you AC 15.
Going from light or medium armor (which varies off of stats) to heavy armor (which doesn't) is also awkward.

[Amnestic]

There is one magic item I can think of that does increase unarmed damage, and I think there may be another item, i'd have to look a bit.

Eldritch Claw Tattoo gives a +1 to hit and damage on unarmed strikes, and once per day can increase your range with unarmed strikes to 30ft as well as deal an additional 1d6 force damage on a hit for 1 minute.

Insignia of Claws (from Tyranny of Dragons) is the other one - +1 to unarmed strikes/natural weapons, makes them magical, uncommon, does not require attunement.

Still bizarre to me that in Tasha's they put rarity +1/+2/+3 scaling on a bunch of focuses and spellcaster items but not on the eldritch claw tattoo. It's easy enough to homebrew but still, very odd choice.

But yeah, magic items is a big one.