Stillness of Mind - Should mind control effects prevent you from using it?

[Greywander]

One of the (more minor) complaints about about monks is that a lot of the effects that Stillness of Mind would be able to remove are mind altering effects that would cause the monk to not be aware that they're under such an effect, or be unwilling to remove that effect. Is Stillness of Mind meant to be more of a, "Dang, that dragon spooky, okay, deep breath," or, "Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me"? If the monk can just use it to clear any charm or fear effect, even if they're not aware of it, then why not just make them straight up immune? Sure, it has an action cost, but perhaps it was always intentional that effects you're not aware of or that more actively manipulate you are more difficult to remove.

I've seen some monk tweaks and revisions that enhance Stillness of Mind so that just being under such an effect gives you the chance to remove it. You still have to pay the action cost, but no amount of mind control can stop you from using it. It would make sense if only the conscious mind is being manipulated, while the subconscious is aware that something is wrong and reacts reflexively. But perhaps that's stronger than the feature was intended to be?

[Psyren]

I think it should work exactly like the Psi Warrior's Guarded Mind feature, and that's how we rule it to work at our table. If that's too powerful (which, for a monk, I don't think it is), then make it require spending a ki point.

[Bobthewizard]

I agree. I think you should be able to use it even when incapacitated, but then it uses your action that round so you can't do anything else after you end the effect.

[MrStabby]

I think its intended to be that you need to actively chose to end the condition.

I don't think it should be and I think it should be passive.

Fluff wise, I tend to think of the monk as a class that should be better equipped than most to resist mental effects and whilst the monk will probably have decent enough wisdom, there is no proficiency in wisdom saves till level 14. Having a marginally useful way to resist these effects to put them in the same league as clerics, druids, paladins would be good.

From a balance perespecive, the monk is hardly overpowered at this level and I think that this would do no harm to the balance of the game to buff this. Given that at level 14 the ability will see less use anyway I think it has a bit of space to be good in these mid-tiers. I do wonder if it had been originally written as immunity to fear and charm effects if anyone would have thought it out of place at all. No one seems to think it overpowered on the devotion paladin who spreads the effec to others as well and who has a lot more going on in the class on top.

[Sigreid]

I think it was intended to play into the trope of the monk taking a moment to focus and achieving clarity and resolve.

RP wise I think it's the monk realizes something isn't right and reaches into his training to center himself.

[KorvinStarmast]

I think its intended to be that you need to actively chose to end the condition.

I don't think it should be and I think it should be passive. Passive isn't a bad idea but does that means either 'immune to charmed/frightened' or 'advantage on the save?'
Starting at 7th level, you can use your action to end one effect on yourself that is causing you to be charmed or frightened.

From a balance perspective, the monk is hardly overpowered at this level and I think that this would do no harm to the balance of the game to buff this.
I agree, but I see a lot of whinging about passive class features from people who want one more button to push.

[MrStabby]

I agree, but I see a lot of whinging about passive class features from people who want one more button to push.

I would usually be one of those people, and I do like abilities being a bit more acive as I think it promotes choice... however here I think that some charm/fear effects are so nasty that there isn't really a tough choice to be made if its good (the less painful fear/charm effects are the ones that still leae you your action anyway).

I would also note that the monk is one of the less starved classes when it comes to "buttons to push". With Ki being a relatively abundant resource, you get to use it many times per day, and with stunning strike, flurry of blows, step of the wind and a bundle of subclass ablities usually being useful I think the monk is less starved of meaningful choice to make round by round in combat than other characters. I would have a preference for an active ability, but not at the expence of it seeing little use or having no impact in the game.

[KorvinStarmast]

With Ki being a relatively abundant resource, you get to use it many times per day, and with stunning strike, flurry of blows, step of the wind and a bundle of subclass ablities usually being useful I think the monk is less starved of meaningful choice to make round by round in combat than other characters. That is my experience also.

[Slipjig]

This has been identified as an issue since the power first appeared, it's hard to believe it hasn't been errata'd.

For what it's worth, we run a house rule where it's an instinctive passive ability, but if it successfully breaks the effect it still consumes the monk's standard action for the round.

It's the player's choice to use it, though, so if for some reason the Monk doesn't want to have Stillness kick in (e.g. he wants to spend his action on a Dash away from the thing he's Frightened of), he can do something else instead.