need advice on a fighting style choice for a melee character...

[samcifer]

So I'm wanting to play a melee character who switches between a greatsword and a longsword and shield. I have a choice between great weapon fighting and dueling for my fighting style and can't decide which one to take. Looking for advice on which of the two to go with.

[arnin77]

Does it have to be between those two? Because I wouldn’t pick either, I’d pick defence (or something else that is “on” no matter what) if I wanted to switch between one and two handed fighting.

If it has to be between those two I’d pick dueling I guess, but it would depend on feats you want to take etc

[samcifer]

It's a barbadin without armor, so defense style would be useless.

[arnin77]

Go dueling then. When you use a great sword it will be useless.

[AttilatheYeon]

Blind fighting.

[Leon]

Pick something that benefits you even when using one or the other

[CTurbo]

Between Dueling and GWF, I'd choose Dueling every time. I don't think GWF is very good anyway, but since wielding a longsword with one hand is going to deal less damage than wielding a greatsword with two hands, I'd rather boost the offensively weaker option.

Blind Fighting is certainly a viable option. It may not come up a lot, but you'll be very glad you had it if you need it.
Don't discount Archery. You're bound to find yourself fighting at range at times, and you'll be very glad you had Archery.
Superior Technique gets you 1 Battle Master maneuver which I would personally use to take Riposte once per short rest. Not a bad choice.

I played a Champion/Barbarian once and I actually took Archery as my Fighting Style. No regrets.

[Mastikator]

If you expect to have an ally near you at least half of the time then I'd like to add Interception to the suggestion box.

It's low key amazing, reducing 1d10+PB once per round is incredibly strong, especially at lower levels but good all the way up.

[Sandeman]

I would pick Great Weapon Fighting just because it is sooo satisfying to be able to reroll those 1s and 2s.

[Bobthewizard]

I'd vote for blind fighting if you have someone who can drop a fog cloud or darkness on you. Otherwise, I love interception if you have another melee party member. It's perfect for a barbarian, since it encourages enemies to attack you.

What I like about both of these is that they give you more options, not just static bonuses.

[LostBenefit]

It's a barbadin without armor, so defense style would be useless.

Paladins do best with more opportunities to crit so take PAM for your first ASI/Feat and use spear and shield with Fighting Style: Dueling.

[RogueJK]

Paladins do best with more opportunities to crit so take PAM for your first ASI/Feat and use spear and shield with Fighting Style: Dueling.

This is the way (at least from an optimization standpoint). It gets you more opportunities to Crit and Smite thanks to the additional BA attack, plus lets you add both your Rage Damage and your Dueling damage bonus one extra time per turn due to the BA third attack. (As well as eventually apply Improved Divine Smite a third time, if you're going to Paladin 11+)

You'll also always have the +2 to AC from the shield, and with Dueling your 1H Spear is still doing the same average damage as a larger 2H Polearm (1d6+2 and 1d10 both average out to 5.5)

The downside is not utilizing GWM, but that not only frees up an ASI to take PAM, it also means you won't have the GWM attack penalty so your attacks are more likely to hit in order to be able to apply your Smite, Rage, and Dueling bonus damages.

[samcifer]

Does dualings +2 damage apply when you throw the spear?

[JNAProductions]

Does dualings +2 damage apply when you throw the spear?

It's not 100% clear. I rule yes, but reasonable DMs can rule otherwise.

[RogueJK]

FWIW, Jeremy Crawford agrees in his (unofficial) Sage Advice Twitter rulings that dueling applies to attacks made with a 1H melee weapon, not just melee attacks. So that would apply to a thrown spear or dagger (melee weapons), but not a thrown dart (ranged weapon).

[Leon]

Paladins do best with more opportunities to crit so take PAM for your first ASI/Feat and use spear and shield with Fighting Style: Dueling.

OP has indicated what weapons they are going to be using, why do people think that suggesting a alternate because its "optimal" is a good suggestion? Many people don't give a fig what is optimal or not but what fits their character idea.

[samcifer]

OP has indicated what weapons they are going to be using, why do people think that suggesting a alternate because its "optimal" is a good suggestion? Many people don't give a fig what is optimal or not but what fits their character idea.

This pc has barbarian levels and most battles are over in 2-3 rounds in our group, so I'd get only 1 or 2 bonus action attacks per combat since I'll be raging usually for turn 1. PAM wouldn't add much damage overall outside of OAs when approached.

[Hiro Quester]

If your “Barbadin” has enough Paladin levels to have an aura, you are probably going to often have allies fighting alongside you. In that case the interception fighting style really is a good thing to have around. It won’t change or go away depending on which weapon you are using.

However, If you were getting this as a Paladin, interception isn’t really an option. It will probably depend on persuading your DM to let you make this substitution.

Between the two styles you are considering, then, I would say that dueling’s consistent +2 damage is slightly better than great weapon fighting’s rerolling 1s and 2s.

But the biggest determinant is probably going to be which of those weapons you use more often.

The difference between those two in terms of damage isn’t going to be that great. Which weapon you use more often will make the biggest effect on the decision. Though, if you take great weapon master, the ability to add +10 damage will probably incline you to use a great sword more often.

A kind DM might let you take duelling style for a while and then change to great weapon fighting style after you take great weapon master.

[Frogreaver]

Pick the one that gives you a battlemaster manuever per short rest.

[Kane0]

Blind fighting.

I'd like to add Interception to the suggestion box.

Pick the one that gives you a battlemaster manuever per short rest.

Any of these that the Pally has access to.

[Mastikator]

Any of these that the Pally has access to.

In Tasha's Interception, Blind Fighting and Blessed Warrior are optionally added fighting styles options.

[LostBenefit]

OP has indicated what weapons they are going to be using, why do people think that suggesting a alternate because its "optimal" is a good suggestion? Many people don't give a fig what is optimal or not but what fits their character idea.

If OP didn't care about mechanical benefit even slightly, then they wouldn't have made a post asking for advice and would have just chosen what they thought fits their "character idea."

We offer these suggestions/alternatives because being ineffective in combat, even for the sake of a character idea, is not fun to most people. It can even negatively affect those at the table with you if you can't contribute meaningfully during combat and need to be coddled, especially if your DM prioritizes combat over roleplaying and exploration.


So I'm wanting to play a melee character who switches between a greatsword and a longsword and shield. I have a choice between great weapon fighting and dueling for my fighting style and can't decide which one to take. Looking for advice on which of the two to go with.

To answer your question without suggesting an alternative, the weapon combinations that you want to use do not synergize well with your single Fighting Style option. If you choose GWF but attack with a sword and shield, you do not receive any benefit—likewise if you chose Dueling but attack with a greatsword.

I suggest Dueling as GWF offers a negligible DPR increase, unless your DM rules against RAI and allows GWF to reroll 1's and 2's for Divine Smite.


It's a barbadin without armor, so defense style would be useless.
Unless you rolled well for DEX and CON, medium armor + Fighting Style: Defense + 14 DEX is more effective and results in a higher AC than Unarmored Defense (and +1/+2/+3 armor will increase this further depending on availability).


This pc has barbarian levels and most battles are over in 2-3 rounds in our group, so I'd get only 1 or 2 bonus action attacks per combat since I'll be raging usually for turn 1. PAM wouldn't add much damage overall outside of OAs when approached.
Do you have a use for your reaction? If not, an attack of opportunity when approached is a reliable use for your reaction and will improve DPR more than you give credit for. You could even combine it with Sentinel to mitigate damage taken altogether by one melee enemy each round.

[LudicSavant]

So I'm wanting to play a melee character who switches between a greatsword and a longsword and shield. I have a choice between great weapon fighting and dueling for my fighting style and can't decide which one to take. Looking for advice on which of the two to go with.

Neither. If you want to be a switch hitter, don’t take a fighting style that only works with one option. Get Blind-Fighting or Interception or Defense or something.

[LostBenefit]

Neither. If you want to be a switch hitter, don’t take a fighting style that only works with one option. Get Blind-Fighting or Interception or Defense or something.

I agree. Others, including myself, suggested Fighting Style: Defense or Blind Fighting but OP wants to use no armor and rely on Unarmored Defense.

[samcifer]

I agree. Others, including myself, suggested Fighting Style: Defense or Blind Fighting but OP wants to use no armor and rely on Unarmored Defense.

Yeah, I'm using unarmed defense as I have good enough stats to make it work, and while my dm has used darkness quite a bit, blind fighting just seems like it wouldn't get used enough to make it worth taking. Looking over the math, dueling seems better:

18 strength while raging at level 6 means 6 + weapon damage. Assuming a greatsword or maul vs a longsword/battle axe/Warhammer and shield, the damage would look like:

2-handed - 8 minimum damage, 13 average, 18 max damage

1-handed (d8 weapons) + shield and dueling - 9 minimum damage, 13 average and 16 max damage

Dueling only gives 2 less damage at max, 1 more at minimum and equal at average with a higher ac. Plus its effect happens every hit so long as I use that weapon with 1 hand and no other weapons. If it also works with spears and javelins, all the better. The only downside is not getting to re-roll damage dice that roll a 1 or 2. Seems like a decent trade-off, I suppose.

[Kane0]

Dueling beats GW style, but I reckon Interception or [Choose maneuver] would be more fun and interesting than a bit of extra damage.

Edit: blind fighting also works really well against invisibility as well as darkness and blindness.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Yeah, I'm using unarmed defense as I have good enough stats to make it work, and while my dm has used darkness quite a bit, blind fighting just seems like it wouldn't get used enough to make it worth taking. Looking over the math, dueling seems better:

18 strength while raging at level 6 means 6 + weapon damage. Assuming a greatsword or maul vs a longsword/battle axe/Warhammer and shield, the damage would look like:

2-handed - 8 minimum damage, 13 average, 18 max damage

1-handed (d8 weapons) + shield and dueling - 9 minimum damage, 13 average and 16 max damage

Dueling only gives 2 less damage at max, 1 more at minimum and equal at average with a higher ac. Plus its effect happens every hit so long as I use that weapon with 1 hand and no other weapons. If it also works with spears and javelins, all the better. The only downside is not getting to re-roll damage dice that roll a 1 or 2. Seems like a decent trade-off, I suppose.

Dueling is absolutely better. GWF sounds good, but only adds an average of about 1 point, so is pretty much the weakest option available.

[Leon]

If OP didn't care about mechanical benefit even slightly, then they wouldn't have made a post asking for advice and would have just chosen what they thought fits their "character idea."


They asked for a choice of a Fighting style initially between X and Y and many people have suggested going for a compromise of something that works all the time instead of depending on what weapon they are using at the current time. Suggesting that they use Z weapon and feat instead isn't helpful to them.

[ShadeRaven]

If you plan to eventually get the Great Weapon Master feat - then get Great Weapon Fighting, because then you will most probably stop switching to longsword and shield.
If you don't plan to pick the Great Weapon Master feat - then get dueling, because greatswords are not all that great without feat support.

Switching between 2h weapon and 1h + shield is almost never a viable tactical decision in 5e. Making it in the middle of a combat is absurd, because it takes an action do don or doff your shield.
Switching pre combat also makes little sense unless you know you fight only enemies that will almost never make an attack roll against you (because shield helps equaly well against melee, ranged and smell attacks).

[Greywander]

while my dm has used darkness quite a bit, blind fighting just seems like it wouldn't get used enough to make it worth taking.
Getting the most out of Blind Fighting requires you to be proactive about creating your own obscurement. Have a friendly caster drop a Fog Cloud or Darkness on you, then beat your enemies to death while they flail around unable to see. This takes it from a defensive option that removes an uncommon penalty to an offensive option that weaponizes that penalty against your enemies as a core strategy.

That said, I feel like Blind Fighting doesn't synergize as well with a barbarian. You can already get advantage on attacks with Reckless Attack, and the resistance offered by Rage means you're not as worried about getting hit. Plus, with Aura of Protection you won't be as worried about being targeted by spells, though it's not quite as good as removing the ability to target you in the first place by making yourself unseen. And speaking of Reckless Attack, you can always use it when blinded to at least remove the disadvantage, and since the enemy would already have advantage against you there would be no further penalty.

Blind Fighting is really good, I just don't think it will do as much for you as it would for some other builds.

I kind of wish there was a fighting style for versatile weapons. Something that encourages you to switch between one-handed and two-handed grips. There just isn't much reason to not fully commit to either sword'n'board or a dedicated two-handed weapon. Only some niche grapple builds can get full use out of versatile weapons and switching grips.

[samcifer]

Yeah, blind fighting needs set up. I, too, have thought of combining it with fog cloud, but I can't concentrate to use spells as a barb.

I found a solo adventure for lvl 5 to 10 in a snowy setting and ran my lvl 6 barbadin through the encounters. 2 yeti was nothing, but the young white dragon was tough. I managed to solo it (barely) before realizing I was doing it wrong by not having an npc barbarian character there to help me fight it. I even tried fighting him and won, then tried the dragon solo a second time and won again.

I tried both dueling and 2 handed with a maul and while dueling works 100% of the time, GWF's reroll of 1s and 2s is much more satisfying to use. I was felt as if I was consistently rolling higher damage using the maul than a Warhammer. Maybe it was just rolling 2 damage dice instead of 1.

[Damon_Tor]

The problem with getting dueling style is that if you have dueling style and not great weapon style, then your longsword and greatsword have the same average damage, and there's never a reason to switch.

IMO, blind fighting is the way.

[LostBenefit]

A kind DM might let you take duelling style for a while and then change to great weapon fighting style after you take great weapon master.

With the release of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, in which is the optional feature called Martial Versatility, you can switch Fighting Styles everytime you reach a level that grants an ASI.