Farmerbink
2022-11-10, 02:47 PM
Heya playgrounders of all types. I have a quandary I'd like some input on.
I'll soon be starting a Carrion Crown game, using basically all of the first-party PF 1 content. For story purposes, I've settled on Dhampir as a class, and want to lean hard into the idea that he has power over the undead, but does not like what that means about what he is.
SO the plan is generally speaking to exert his will over them in a fairly concrete, spell-based (ideally a result of charisma) fashion. As it stands, I'm familiar with 3 options to do this:
* Dirge bard (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo-bard-archetypes/dirge-bard/) at level two can hit all undead with [mind-affecting] spells only as if they were living creatures, with the notable (and odd) exception that the more "personal" spells don't work. Can't target undead with anything that specifies humanoid as its target.
* Undead bloodline sorcerer (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/undead-bloodline/) can treat corporeal undead that were once humanoids as humanoid, for all his spells. In terms of the applicable spells, much more broad. In terms of the legal targets, much more narrow.
* Spirit Walker mesmerist (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/occult-adventures/occult-classes/mesmerist/archetypes/paizo-llc-mesmerist-archetypes/spirit-walker-mesmerist-archetype/) at level 5 can hit all undead ((this ruling given by DM)) as if their nearest non-undead type (a zombie lion gets treated like an animal) with [mind-affecting] spells and abilities
Obviously, there's weird subtle intricacies here. The bard archetype can use a wide array of "living creature" spells to target undead. The sorcerer can use things like charm person and hold person on a comparatively narrow range of undead targets. The mesmerist can hit a wider range of targets with a wider range of spells (and abilities, so intimidate should be on the table), but takes level 5 to come online, and is saddled with some WEIRD clearly non-good class features. I'm familiar with Threnodic spell, (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/threnodic-spell-metamagic) as well, but since that isn't as clearly tied to character design choices, it's less immediately relevant.
FIRST ACTIONABLE QUESTION: Am I missing anything? I scanned the bones oracle, death and undead domains, and the list of first-party classes.
SECOND: Is there an obvious critical caveat to any of those three I've overlooked or misrepresented?
THIRD: Is there clear, over-arching value to any of the three options in notable excess of the others. I'm strongly considering pairing basically any of them with a 1-level dip in heavens oracle for awesome display, and just trying to meaningfully assess the relative value.
Thanks in advance for the read!
-FarmerBink
I'll soon be starting a Carrion Crown game, using basically all of the first-party PF 1 content. For story purposes, I've settled on Dhampir as a class, and want to lean hard into the idea that he has power over the undead, but does not like what that means about what he is.
SO the plan is generally speaking to exert his will over them in a fairly concrete, spell-based (ideally a result of charisma) fashion. As it stands, I'm familiar with 3 options to do this:
* Dirge bard (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo-bard-archetypes/dirge-bard/) at level two can hit all undead with [mind-affecting] spells only as if they were living creatures, with the notable (and odd) exception that the more "personal" spells don't work. Can't target undead with anything that specifies humanoid as its target.
* Undead bloodline sorcerer (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/undead-bloodline/) can treat corporeal undead that were once humanoids as humanoid, for all his spells. In terms of the applicable spells, much more broad. In terms of the legal targets, much more narrow.
* Spirit Walker mesmerist (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/occult-adventures/occult-classes/mesmerist/archetypes/paizo-llc-mesmerist-archetypes/spirit-walker-mesmerist-archetype/) at level 5 can hit all undead ((this ruling given by DM)) as if their nearest non-undead type (a zombie lion gets treated like an animal) with [mind-affecting] spells and abilities
Obviously, there's weird subtle intricacies here. The bard archetype can use a wide array of "living creature" spells to target undead. The sorcerer can use things like charm person and hold person on a comparatively narrow range of undead targets. The mesmerist can hit a wider range of targets with a wider range of spells (and abilities, so intimidate should be on the table), but takes level 5 to come online, and is saddled with some WEIRD clearly non-good class features. I'm familiar with Threnodic spell, (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/threnodic-spell-metamagic) as well, but since that isn't as clearly tied to character design choices, it's less immediately relevant.
FIRST ACTIONABLE QUESTION: Am I missing anything? I scanned the bones oracle, death and undead domains, and the list of first-party classes.
SECOND: Is there an obvious critical caveat to any of those three I've overlooked or misrepresented?
THIRD: Is there clear, over-arching value to any of the three options in notable excess of the others. I'm strongly considering pairing basically any of them with a 1-level dip in heavens oracle for awesome display, and just trying to meaningfully assess the relative value.
Thanks in advance for the read!
-FarmerBink